Some little known facts and tidbits

[Omar del Sur]

There is evidence as rape is also seen as hiraabah as well, so the ruler can apply a more severe punishment without the need of 4 witnesses.

Otherwise, he is to be punished (i.e., if there is no proof that the hadd punishment for zina may be carried out against him because he does not confess, and there are not four witnesses, then the judge may punish him and stipulate a punishment that will deter him and others like him). There is no punishment for the woman if it is true that he forced her and overpowered her, which may be proven by her screaming and shouting for help. End quote.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/72338

you should use quotation marks.

comment of Angelina (if I'm not mistaken): "There is evidence as rape is also seen as hiraabah as well, so the ruler can apply a more severe punishment without the need of 4 witnesses."

wording of fatwa:

"Otherwise, he is to be punished (i.e., if there is no proof that the hadd punishment for zina may be carried out against him because he does not confess, and there are not four witnesses, then the judge may punish him and stipulate a punishment that will deter him and others like him). There is no punishment for the woman if it is true that he forced her and overpowered her, which may be proven by her screaming and shouting for help. End quote."

now, to my understanding- the rape may involve hiraabah. for example, he kidnaps the woman or breaks into her house- then it's hiraabah and I believe he can be crucified. however, I do not think the rape in and of itself is considered as hiraabah. from what I understand, it can be considered as hiraabah under certain situations like the ones I mentioned but rape as such is not considered as hiraabah.

 

[Basra]

My fellow dwellers. I thought it'd be a good idea to share a few tidbits on gender, marriage, family, etc. that's not oft discussed. Feel free to add to the tread.

Let's start with this:

According to the Prophet (SAW): The child is to be attributed to one on whose bed he is born, and for an adulterer there is stoning.” [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]

The meaning of this is, once lawfully wed it is logically taken as fact that she can only have intimate relationships with the husband. Extrapolating this, any child born in that household is de-facto the husband's child in the eyes of Islamic law.

Let's take a made up scenario as an example. Following child-birth, you come to find your child has the characteristics of blonde hair, green eyes, and freckles. You being the dhuxul Somali laandheere you become devastated: simple biology/genetics tells you that this is surely not your seed. Pretty simple case to point at the harlot and cut ties correct? Hold your camels batman!

Th above hadith takes precedent. Since she's your wife, it is taken as fact that the child can only be yours since she can only be intimate with yourself. One way out of this bind is 'Li'aan'.

What is 'Li'aan'? It can be defined as an oath of condemnation; you might be familiar with the roadman version: "I swear on my mom's life..."

Let us take the case of the Companion Hilal ibn Umayah (AS). Hilal on his way home on a particular evening, witnessed with his own eyes and ears his wife in bed with another man. He bit his tongue and turned away as not to rouse them and planned his meeting with the Prophet for the following morning.

Upon meeting the Prophet he exclaimed: "Oh messenger of Allah, I have witnessed with my own eyes and ears another man with my wife last night".

Hearing this the Prophet took dislike to it, and approached the issue very seriously. At that moment we were blessed with the revelation of the following verses:

And those who accuse their wives [of adultery] and have no witnesses except themselves – then the witness of one of them [shall be] four testimonies [swearing] by Allah that indeed, he is of the truthful. [Surah 24 Al-Nur; Verse 6]

And the fifth [oath will be] that the curse of Allah be upon him if he should be of the liars. (Surah 24 Al-Nur; Verse 7)

But it will prevent punishment from her if she gives four testimonies [swearing] by Allah that indeed, he is of the liars. (Surah 24 Al-Nur; Verse 8)

And the fifth [oath will be] that the wrath of Allah be upon her if he was of the truthful. (Surah 24 Al-Nur; Verse 9)

And if not for the favor of Allah upon you and His mercy... and because Allah is Accepting of Repentance and Wise. (Surah 24 Al-Nur; Verse 10)

The Prophet conveyed the above to Hilal, and instructed him to summon his wife. The verses were then also recited to the wife, and both her an Hilal followed the divine revelation.

They both bore witness in front of Allah that each spoke the truth, and before the fifth oath were both warned that the punishment in the hereafter was surely more severe than the worldly one. They wife stuck to her guns, and the Prophet legally separated the couple and the matter was ended there.

Now back to our hypothetical at the start with the blonde supposed Farax-spawn. If she's adamant the child is yours, and you both decide on 'Li'aan' to prove your case; in the event where she sticks to her guns, you may divorce each other Islamically but little Bjorn will take your second name and inheritance in the eyes of all that is good and holy. In Islam, that is your child who you are obligated to raise and treat as a biological child. Bjorn Farax Samantar Kaaliye .

I disagree. Li'am hadith had gravitas before the technology of DNA testing, with DNA testing -- we don't need witnesses or faith acceptance. The proof is undeniable.

But of course the choice of raising the child as yours is preferable to Allaah swt and is a major reward for you, especially after knowing the facts.

 

[Angelina]

you should use quotation marks.

comment of Angelina (if I'm not mistaken): "There is evidence as rape is also seen as hiraabah as well, so the ruler can apply a more severe punishment without the need of 4 witnesses."

wording of fatwa:

"Otherwise, he is to be punished (i.e., if there is no proof that the hadd punishment for zina may be carried out against him because he does not confess, and there are not four witnesses, then the judge may punish him and stipulate a punishment that will deter him and others like him). There is no punishment for the woman if it is true that he forced her and overpowered her, which may be proven by her screaming and shouting for help. End quote."

now, to my understanding- the rape may involve hiraabah. for example, he kidnaps the woman or breaks into her house- then it's hiraabah and I believe he can be crucified. however, I do not think the rape in and of itself is considered as hiraabah. from what I understand, it can be considered as hiraabah under certain situations like the ones I mentioned but rape as such is not considered as hiraabah.

Whether you call it Hiraabah or not the qoute says:

may be carried out against him because he does not confess, and there are not four witnesses, then the judge may punish him and stipulate a punishment that will deter him and others like him.

So, even without 4 witnesses, the judge will punish him, according that extract above.

Islam is a religion of justice. No rapist ever rapes with witnesses around. It is impossible as if there are 4 male witnesses the rape wouldn't even likely take place as they'll stop it.

 

[Basra]

Whether you call it Hiraabah or not the qoute says:

may be carried out against him because he does not confess, and there are not four witnesses, then the judge may punish him and stipulate a punishment that will deter him and others like him.

So, even without 4 witnesses, the judge will punish him, according that extract above.

Islam is a religion of justice. No rapist ever rapes with witnesses around. It is impossible as if there are 4 male witnesses the rape wouldn't even likely take place as they'll stop it.

Indeed Islam is the religion of Justice. Allaah swt is a God of Justice. The 4 witness is Allaah's swt perfect Justice and Mercy. He wants his slaves to repent and ask for forgiveness. Allaah swt makes it hard to punish or judge. The honor belongs soley to Allaah swt Periodt

 

[Omar del Sur]

Whether you call it Hiraabah or not the qoute says:

may be carried out against him because he does not confess, and there are not four witnesses, then the judge may punish him and stipulate a punishment that will deter him and others like him.

So, even without 4 witnesses, the judge will punish him, according that extract above.

Islam is a religion of justice. No rapist ever rapes with witnesses around. It is impossible as if there are 4 male witnesses the rape wouldn't even likely take place as they'll stop it.

the quote doesn't say anything anything about it being Hiraabah, here is the full quote:

"Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

The scholars are unanimously agreed that the rapist is to be subjected to the hadd punishment if there is clear evidence against him that he deserves the hadd punishment, or if he admits to that. Otherwise, he is to be punished (i.e., if there is no proof that the hadd punishment for zina may be carried out against him because he does not confess, and there are not four witnesses, then the judge may punish him and stipulate a punishment that will deter him and others like him). There is no punishment for the woman if it is true that he forced her and overpowered her, which may be proven by her screaming and shouting for help. End quote."

 

[Angelina]

the quote doesn't say anything anything about it being Hiraabah, here is the full quote:

"Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

The scholars are unanimously agreed that the rapist is to be subjected to the hadd punishment if there is clear evidence against him that he deserves the hadd punishment, or if he admits to that. Otherwise, he is to be punished (i.e., if there is no proof that the hadd punishment for zina may be carried out against him because he does not confess, and there are not four witnesses, then the judge may punish him and stipulate a punishment that will deter him and others like him). There is no punishment for the woman if it is true that he forced her and overpowered her, which may be proven by her screaming and shouting for help. End quote."

I know, but my point is that even without 4 witnesses, he will be punished by the ruler as he sees fit.

 

[Omar del Sur]

I know, but my point is that even without 4 witnesses, he will be punished by the ruler as he sees fit.

noooooowhere did I say he can't be punished without four witnesses. I'm not trying to defend the rapist, I'm just trying to accurately explain the rulings on this because someone asked me. of course I'm all for deterring this kind of thing.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Whether you call it Hiraabah or not the qoute says:

also I just want to mention

"Rape is essentially zina (fornication or adultery) and is proven in the same way as zina is proven, which is with four witnesses. The punishment is one hundred lashes if the man was a virgin and stoning if he was previously married.

If rape is committed using the threat of a weapon or if the woman is abducted forcefully from her home, then it becomes a case of haraabah (banditry or terrorising the people), which is proven with two witnesses only. The punishment for it is mentioned in the verse in which Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on the opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter”"

https://islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/158282

so I just want to mention that this idea that rape in itself doesn't necessarily constitute haraabah but it becomes haraabah under certain circumstances- it isn't something I just made up.

 

[Angelina]

noooooowhere did I say he can't be punished without four witnesses. I'm not trying to defend the rapist, I'm just trying to accurately explain the rulings on this because someone asked me. of course I'm all for deterring this kind of thing.

Ah okay, we just had a massive misunderstanding!

 

[Hodan from HR]

Tidbit numero duo:

Did you know that the wife is under no Islamic obligation to cook if she's from a upper-class family, came from an upbringing where this is not the norm, or is simply not able to? You can literally not demand her to cook - and going even one further you are obligated to feed her.

Say you marry Aisha from UAE who's father runs several businesses where he draws a respectable salary from - so not an unrealistic position for a lot of Somalis that live there. Aisha's family has a maid and a chef since childhood because the family could afford it. This is her norm.

You ask for Aisha's hand in marriage, she and her family accept, and you fly her over to the West. Now you're thinking, a gazelle from a conservative Muslim country ? Jackpot! You flex your inner stomach lining in preparation for the feasts she'll prepare - we've all seen those Arab table spreads with food spilling over the edges.

Dainty Aisha arrives, sets her bags down at the door, looks you in the face and chortles what's for dinner monsieur luugo-baasto, before playfully roasting your living situation in a nice-not-so-nice tone

In your self-righteousness you sneer at this unruly woman, and make the decision to seek Islamic advise on how to rehabilitate your new wife. You get hit with the uno-reverse.

Farax: "Yaa sheikh, this woman will be the end of me!"

Sheikh: "First of all calm down waryaa, you've only been married a couple of days with your woe-is me punk ass. And what did I tell you about going for a run after fajar? Your love-handles are outrageous!"

Farax: "Yaa sheikh, this is genetics as I've told you before, please stick to the topic."

Sheikh: "Ok - tell me."

Farax: "She refuses to cook and I suspect even has personal beef with the stove - I have seen scratch marks and what look like grafiti scribbles ya Sheikh! She knows nothing of household chores and constantly roasts me for the state of the house!

Sheikh: --check's notes-- "Let me get this straight, you married a girl from a well off family, who has been catered to her whole life correct?

Farax: "But she is so thick ya Shei..

Sheikh: throws sharpie pen.

Sheikh: "My friend, you have misconceptions from European brainwashing on what 'traditional' or even 'conservative' roles are - our women are not mules. You are obligated to maintain the life her wali provided for her before you. You must provide her with food, clothing, safe living arrangements and intimacy. Where do you work?"

Farax: "In between jobs ya sheikh, but no worries doing bits here and there to make up for it".

Sheikh: --takes a deep breath-- "Get out".

When I visit family back home, we have helps to do the cooking and cleaning but qurba-joog iscabulo Hodan shops at Superstore biweekly to make cadaan-adjacent quick meals.

Where do I fall in this ruling? Can Hodan avoid house chores if she marries from back home?

 

[Basra]

When I visit family back home, we have helps to do the cooking and cleaning but qurba-joog iscabulo Hodan shops at Superstore biweekly to make cadaan-adjacent quick meals.

Where do I fall in this ruling? Can Hodan avoid house chores if she marries from back home?

Hodan will not get married huuno.

 

[Hodan from HR]

Hodan will not get married huuno.

 

[Basra]

 

[Taij4an]

you should use quotation marks.

comment of Angelina (if I'm not mistaken): "There is evidence as rape is also seen as hiraabah as well, so the ruler can apply a more severe punishment without the need of 4 witnesses."

wording of fatwa:

"Otherwise, he is to be punished (i.e., if there is no proof that the hadd punishment for zina may be carried out against him because he does not confess, and there are not four witnesses, then the judge may punish him and stipulate a punishment that will deter him and others like him). There is no punishment for the woman if it is true that he forced her and overpowered her, which may be proven by her screaming and shouting for help. End quote."

now, to my understanding- the rape may involve hiraabah. for example, he kidnaps the woman or breaks into her house- then it's hiraabah and I believe he can be crucified. however, I do not think the rape in and of itself is considered as hiraabah. from what I understand, it can be considered as hiraabah under certain situations like the ones I mentioned but rape as such is not considered as hiraabah.

Tbh rape in of itself is circumstantial, it is a case by case situation.
I'm going to ask my ustaadhs though because reading articles online does not give the whole picture and can sometimes be biased to one opinion.