T-M184 Discussion

[Prince Abubu]

Northwest you mean, there is plenty of evidence for the Northeast.

The Siwaaqroon live geographically to the north of most Isaaq.

Yeah, but traditionally and colloquially, North or Waqooyi means Somaliland. Puntland is referred to as Bari.

If you said Northwest, most Somalis would assume you mean Awdal (Boorama) and Waqooyi Galbeed (Hargeisa).

 

[Apollo]

Yeah, but traditionally and colloquially, North or Waqooyi means Somaliland. Puntland is referred to as Bari.

If you said Northwest, most Somalis would assume you mean Awdal (Boorama) and Waqooyi Galbeed (Hargeisa).

Hehe, I know, I know.. I was being pedantic.

 

[Cuneo]

Cool, let me know what the book is when you get the chance. There's a stunning lack of academic studies on the Cushites/Cushitic speakers.

How do you explain the lack of "Waaq" in Northern Somalia? Also, if the T-haplo carriers were south Semitic migrants, how come there's no evidence in our culture or language? Compare Somali to the Habesha for instance.

Waaq exist in Somali vocabulary. Barwaaqo = Bar (place) & Waaqo (rise up). The term is associated with lush greenery and when it rains plants grow. In our desert environment, the plants grow at a fast pace after rainfall which would give the plants the appearance of “rising up”.

However in some Cushitic cultures it’s possible that the term is related to spirituality and God being something that’s raised to the sky.

We don’t know for sure if the T carriers are descendants of south Semitic migrants even though the signs are there. One thing that fascinates is the term “wadaad” which is exclusively used by northerners for Islamic scholar or “Imam”. The term “wadaad”, was in pre-Islamic times, someone who had the knowledge of Wadd. Wadd was a south Semitic deity associated with the now extinct Minaeans, a seafaring people related to Sabeans, whose long distant trade and frankincense merchants reached as far as the Aegean Sea.

The deity Wadd was represented by a serpent and it is mentioned in the Quran as one of the deities worshipped by the people of Noah (verse 71:23). Interestingly enough, there was an ancient Egyptian deity called Wadjet/Wedjet that served as the protector/patron of Lower Egypt and it was represented by a cobra.

I always assumed Noah and the whole flood story = Proto Afro-Asiatic.

 

[Prince Abubu]

Waaq exist in Somali vocabulary. Barwaaqo = Bar (place) & Waaqo (rise up). The term is associated with lush greenery and when it rains plants grow. In our desert environment, the plants grow at a fast pace after rainfall which would give the plants the appearance of “rising up”.

However in some Cushitic cultures it’s possible that the term is related to spirituality and God being something that’s raised to the sky.

We don’t know for sure if the T carriers are descendants of south Semitic migrants even though the signs are there. One thing that fascinates is the term “wadaad” which is exclusively used by northerners for Islamic scholar or “Imam”. The term “wadaad”, was in pre-Islamic times, someone who had the knowledge of Wadd. Wadd was a south Semitic deity associated with the now extinct Minaeans, a seafaring people related to Sabeans, whose long distant trade and frankincense merchants reached as far as the Aegean Sea.

The deity Wadd was represented by a serpent and it is mentioned in the Quran as one of the deities worshipped by the people of Noah (verse 71:23). Interestingly enough, there was an ancient Egyptian deity called Wadjet/Wedjet that served as the protector/patron of Lower Egypt and it was represented by a cobra.

I always assumed Noah and the whole flood story = Proto Afro-Asiatic.

I think the Noah story was stolen by the Hebrews from the Akkadians and Sumerians who had a similar story about a legendary figure named Utnapishtim who built an ark ms survived the flood with his wife. This earlier Sumerian tale predated the Bible story by thousands of years.

Very interesting what you say about "Wadaad". I've always assumed it meant "waddada aad" i.e. "go with the path of God".

If you were being conservative, would you say the T-carriers were descendants of this "minaean" group?

 

[Timo Jareer and proud]

What evidence do you have for this? I've never heard of Somalis being anything other than Muslim. Judaism and Christianity is completely absent from our history, if you exclude the colonial era Christian missionaries.

Read this,

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10437-015-9184-9

A large amount of these Christian sites were looted. Most are in Woqooyi Galbeed.

 

[Timo Jareer and proud]

Waaq exist in Somali vocabulary. Barwaaqo = Bar (place) & Waaqo (rise up). The term is associated with lush greenery and when it rains plants grow. In our desert environment, the plants grow at a fast pace after rainfall which would give the plants the appearance of “rising up”.

However in some Cushitic cultures it’s possible that the term is related to spirituality and God being something that’s raised to the sky.

We don’t know for sure if the T carriers are descendants of south Semitic migrants even though the signs are there. One thing that fascinates is the term “wadaad” which is exclusively used by northerners for Islamic scholar or “Imam”. The term “wadaad”, was in pre-Islamic times, someone who had the knowledge of Wadd. Wadd was a south Semitic deity associated with the now extinct Minaeans, a seafaring people related to Sabeans, whose long distant trade and frankincense merchants reached as far as the Aegean Sea.

The deity Wadd was represented by a serpent and it is mentioned in the Quran as one of the deities worshipped by the people of Noah (verse 71:23). Interestingly enough, there was an ancient Egyptian deity called Wadjet/Wedjet that served as the protector/patron of Lower Egypt and it was represented by a cobra.

I always assumed Noah and the whole flood story = Proto Afro-Asiatic.

Wadaad in Woqooyi Galbeed dialect roughly translates to, "someone who has knowledge of the Quran/Allah or Deen." I think this Wadd thing just closed the case if T-M184 Somali carriers are decedents of South Semites. The Somali version is literally just a Islamic version of the ancient Arabian word. I'm actually shocked wtf

 

[Cuneo]

I think the Noah story was stolen by the Hebrews from the Akkadians and Sumerians who had a similar story about a legendary figure named Utnapishtim who built an ark ms survived the flood with his wife. This earlier Sumerian tale predated the Bible story by thousands of years.

Very interesting what you say about "Wadaad". I've always assumed it meant "waddada aad" i.e. "go with the path of God".

If you were being conservative, would you say the T-carriers were descendants of this "minaean" group?

Yes, the ancient Hebrews plagiarized many stories. The entire book of proverbs is plagiarized from Ancient Egyptian wisdom texts written 1000 years before the Torah.

Wadaad = someone with the knowledge of Wadd. People don’t make the connection even though Wadd is mentioned in the Quran. Also when someone dies in Somaliland, specifically among the Isaaq community, people often say “wadkii baa helay”.

The Minaeans are a likely candidate. Their kingdom, according to archeologists, lasted from 1400-700 BCE until their dominance was challenged by the Sabeans who took over most of the towns built by the Minaeans including Ma’rib.

The Minaeans were also seafaring merchants and they reached as far as Greek islands in the Aegean Sea, Lebanon and Egypt based on their inscriptions in these territories unlike the Sabeans and Himyarites who were more land based in their trade. They also established enclaves in the territory of the Lihyanites (descendants of ancient Thamud) in the Hejaz coast.

They “disappeared” as a people and language in 2nd century BCE.

 

[Arabsiyawi]

Wadaad in Woqooyi Galbeed dialect roughly translates to, "someone who has knowledge of the Quran/Allah or Deen." I think this Wadd thing just closed the case if T-M184 Somali carriers are decedents of South Semites. The Somali version is literally just a Islamic version of the ancient Arabian word. I'm actually shocked wtf

idgi.
Wad also means « continuing » in Somali. Why wouldn’t it just be an extension of its regular and native meaning ?

 

[Cuneo]

Wadaad in Woqooyi Galbeed dialect roughly translates to, "someone who has knowledge of the Quran/Allah or Deen." I think this Wadd thing just closed the case if T-M184 Somali carriers are decedents of South Semites. The Somali version is literally just a Islamic version of the ancient Arabian word. I'm actually shocked wtf

Yes, with the introduction of Islam the meaning of the term changed.

Similar to the name Kaahin (priest) which is still common among northerners, in particular Gudabiirsi and Isaaq, even though priests do not exist in Islam.

 

[Timo Jareer and proud]

idgi.
Wad also means « continuing » in Somali. Why wouldn’t it just be an extension of its regular and native meaning ?

by regular native meaning do you mean the yemeni wad or somali wadaad

 

[Arabsiyawi]

by regular native meaning do you mean the yemeni wad or somali wadaad

Somali obvsl

 

[Cuneo]

idgi.
Wad also means « continuing » in Somali. Why wouldn’t it just be an extension of its regular and native meaning ?

The pronunciation is different.

Wadd is pronounced the same way you pronounce ‘wad’ (death in northern Somali dialect) and the root word of the term ‘wadaad’. The emphasis is on the letter d.

 

[Timo Jareer and proud]

@Alexis the woqooyi galbeed version of "wadaad" is too similar to the yemeni version for it to just be a variation of a Cushite word.

 

[Arabsiyawi]

The pronunciation is different.

Wadd is pronounced the same way you pronounce ‘wad’ (death in northern Somali dialect) and the root of the ‘wadaad’. The emphasis is on the letter d.

"wad" as in "continue" "keep doing" is very common in my parents' speech and we're from the north.
Sorry but I just don't see how it could be related to the pre-islamic Arabian pagan diety

 

[Timo Jareer and proud]

Yes, with the introduction of Islam the meaning of the term changed.

Similar to the name Kaahin (priest) which is still common among northerners, in particular Gudabiirsi and Isaaq, even though priests do not exist in Islam.

do you think Kaahin is of pagan origin or another word similar to a south semetic word like wadaad?

 

[Arabsiyawi]

@Alexis the woqooyi galbeed version of "wadaad" is too similar to the yemeni version for it to just be a variation of a Cushite word.

You mean they also used the word "wadaad" ?

 

[Cuneo]

"wad" as in "continue" "keep doing" is very common in my parents' speech and we're from the north.
Sorry but I just don't see how it could be related to the pre-islamic Arabian pagan diety

The letter d is not emphasized when you pronounce the other word which means continue.

Say “ii wad” out loud and you’ll notice the difference.

 

[Timo Jareer and proud]

You mean they also used the word "wadaad" ?

according to @Cuneo "wadaad" was a phrased used prior to islam for a person who had knowledge of Waad.

 

[Cuneo]

do you think Kaahin is of pagan origin or another word similar to a south semetic word like wadaad?

I don’t think Kaahin is of pagan origin.

It’s a possibility that the people of the north (HG-T carriers in particular) worshipped Wadd given the different terms that exist within the dialect with a clear reference to Wadd (death, pagan “priest” etc) and gradually converted to Judaism and Christianity because K-H-N is a central Semitic root word meaning priest and prophecy. The term exists in Ugaritic, Phoenician, Aramaic, Hebrew and Arabic.

 

[Timo Jareer and proud]

I don’t think Kaahin is of pagan origin.

It’s a possibility that the people of the north (HG-T carriers in particular) worshipped Wadd given the different terms that exist within the dialect with a clear reference to Wadd (death, pagan “priest” etc) and gradually converted to Judaism and Christianity because K-H-N is a central Semitic root word meaning priest and prophecy. The term exists in Ugaritic, Phoenician, Aramaic, Hebrew and Arabic.

wow. so this word basically confirms a south semitic origin for my ancestors.