Tapestry of Feathers

For people who know a thing or two about Somali historical culture, feathers on the heads of males are granted to the ones who best others in a fight to the death. This feather-wearing is a practice that goes back to the Nubian days:

From Lower Nubia between 3500-3000 years ago:
1745275177036.png


Othere Lower Nubian (also the Upper Nubians wore feathers):
1745275205070.png

1745275212327.png


This is from older rock art in the central Eastern Desert, Egypt.

"Feathers are the most common feature added to the basic body shape. Both Rohl (2000) and Wilkinson (2003) maintained that plumes not only represented status, but that divinity and twin plumes were a precursor of the double-plumes worn by gods and goddesses in the pharaonic era. They are examined here to determine if they are may indicate status or are associated with hunting, since the latter is such a feature of the Central Eastern Desert petroglyphs."

Distribution:
1745275232600.png


If the Somali practice of putting feathers only after killing someone, it does answer why these guys reason to wear them. Here they seem clueless:

"Plumed figures are mostly found in the southern wadis and at sites dated to the Predynastic (see Chapter Seven). They are especially prevalent in the heavily early Wadis Baramiya, Hajalij (S), and Umm Salam. But they also feature at predynastic sites in Abu Wasil, and this north-central wadi sees a concentration of feathered figures. There are comparatively few examples in Wadi Hammamat where there are a number of pharaonic figures, only one of which has double plumes. In Wadi Atwani again plumed figures are present entirely at early sites in association with predynastic boats. In the core central Wadis Iqaydi and Shalul plumed figures are rare."

Here is evidence that the North Cushites, Blemmyes (ancestors of the Beja) wore feathers and even depicted such:

"However, plumes do not always indicate an early date. At IQA-10 comparison to Greek lettering shows that one plumed figure in a boat is probably Greco Roman. The plumes also have bulbous ends, a feature never seen on predynastic figures (Figure 5.9)."

In reality, this is a practice that likely goes way deeper in time and relates to the AEA side of Cushitic ancestry. Why do I say this? Because Nilo-Saharan peoples also wear feathers on their heads.
1745275239618.png


1745275257456.png


Trusting ChatGPT on this, I asked why the Hamer men wear plumes on their heads. The machine answered; it is a symbol of bravery and status, and masculinity, after going through a rite of passage. Their specific challenge has to do with bull-jumping. If the individual succeeds, the male becomes an adult and eligible for marriage. I think this is, in structural framework, similar to the Somali, where we signify the ultimate rights of passage as being a warrior, with the morbid reality being, to test one's prowess is to battle someone. If one succeeds, that becomes the sign of bravery, status, masculinity, etc. In that regard, I think that it is overall the same since those ancients in the Egyptian Central Eastern Desert. Only for them, it was about hunting as a rights of passage:
1745275272780.png


To give us more insight, the mixed Rendille (with Samburu) wear a spesific headgear that they place several feathers on.
1745275296369.png


For the Rendilles, it showcases ones expressed and proven hunting prowess.
1745275314201.png


For the Turkana, it is for the same reason as the Somalis.

"A warrior also has the right to wear white ostrich feathers. The warlike philosophy of the Turkana fascinated E. R. Shackleton, who was a District Commissoner in Lodwar during the 1930s. Shackleton recorded a long story told by a veteran chief named Lonyamon: 'I was a warrior. I knew everything. And ever since I have killed a man I have worn nothing but the best ostrich feathers -- white.'"

The Turkana are nilotics who are mixed with Cushites.

This is the hunter palette of Naqada III, dated to 3100 BC:
1745275329305.png


To summarize, this feather-wearing practice has to do with masculinity affirmation and social status that has existed for at least 5000 years (plus) and goes back to the Nubian region (for us, much more recently). I don't want to go too deep with the Eastern Desert rock art stuff because it goes into a whole lot of things that have massive historical significance, and it is an expansive topic that needs its respective focus.
 
Many cultures do this though. What is the connection? I’m not saying you are wrong but I just don’t know how it would get to us from Nubia. Just because our ancestors may have been there at some point in the past doesn’t really show that specific connection of this tradition m.
 
Many cultures do this though. What is the connection? I’m not saying you are wrong but I just don’t know how it would get to us from Nubia.
This is not evidence used to say "we are from Nubia," that is already comprehensively established by many diverse pieces of evidence. That was not the point. The point is, as a Nubian descended group that the Somalis are, the practice still stayed with us, and that practice is very widely ancient and has broad anthropological diachronic fixtures. Kind of a different focus, my friend.
 
This is not evidence used to say "we are from Nubia," that is already comprehensively established by many diverse pieces of evidence. That was not the point. The point is, as a Nubian descended group that the Somalis are, the practice still stayed with us, and that practice is very widely ancient and has broad anthropological diachronic fixtures. Kind of a different focus, my friend.
I don’t think you understood what I was saying. I didn’t say it was evidence of anything. That line in bold is what you seem to be arguing and what I anticipated. I’m not saying your argument is wrong, just wondering if you are assuming that this practice came from ancient Nubia because we are a ‘Nubian descended’ group. Is there any actual evidence of this or is it just an assumption that that is where it must have come from. You could argue that anything we have in common must have come from Nubia then by that logic. Many other cultures all over the world practice this as well.
 
I don’t think you understood what I was saying. I didn’t say it was evidence of anything. That line in bold is what you seem to be arguing and what I anticipated. I’m not saying your argument is wrong, just wondering if you are assuming that this practice came from ancient Nubia because we are a ‘Nubian descended’ group. Is there any actual evidence of this or is it just an assumption that that is where it must have come from. You could argue that anything we have in common must have come from Nubia then by that logic. Many other cultures all over the world practice this as well.
You don't get it. Our ancestors weren't at some point; they were literally those people depicted. Do you see why the burden of proof lies in your court? Somalis directly descend from Lower Nubians and were there when the Egyptians put up those hieroglyphics. We exited that region ~3000 years ago. There is a ton of research to prove this, and I am not going to write it for you here since long posts solely dedicated to ascertaining the links have been written.

Evidence of all that through genetics, archeology, anthropolgy, linguistics, subsitence, etc., search up my shit and it will appear for you to read. But let's just end things here because you clearly are in a different mind state with that kind of needless argumentation.

This subject has ended until you do the due diligence that is already posted rigorously on this forum, sxb. If you have other unrelated questions, that would be cool. I don't want to waste my time on things I have already covered.
 
You don't get it. Our ancestors weren't at some point; they were literally those people depicted. Do you see why the burden of proof lies in your court? Somalis directly descend from Lower Nubians and were there when those fucking Egyptian cunts put up those hieroglyphcs. We exited that region ~3000 years ago. There is a ton of research to prove this, and I am not going to write it for you here.

Evidence of all that through genetics, archeology, anthropolgy, linguistics, subsitence, etc., search up my shit and it will appear for you to read. But let's just end things here because you clearly are in a different mind state with that kind of needless argumentation.

This subject has ended until you do the due diligence that is already posted rigorously on this forum, sxb. If you have other unrelated questions, that would be cool. I don't want to waste my time on things I have already covered.
Just to be clear, you are arguing quite passionately I must say, that because they are our ‘ancestors’ it needs to be DISPROVEN that the feathers came from them? I understand you feel very strongly about all this, but I don’t see any hard evidence is all I’m saying. You may be right, but you risk over-interpreting cultural parallels especially given the timelines involved. Good read though.
 
Just to be clear, you are arguing quite passionately I must say, that because they are our ‘ancestors’ it needs to be DISPROVEN that the feathers came from them? I understand you feel very strongly about all this, but I don’t see any hard evidence is all I’m saying. You may be right, but you risk over-interpreting cultural parallels especially given the timelines involved. Good read though.
Those are not cultural parallels when we deal with descent groups. You need to use your basic reasoning skills, bud. It's getting ridiculous. "Cultural parallels" are us and the Turkana. The fact that you conflate this with people we descend from is insincere argumentation. That is why I told you not to waste my time engaging in needless back-and-forth.

On the matter of proving anything, that is the reason why I told you to read the research established on the forum. You will get there if you try, I'm sure.

The aspect of passion. I am beating a dead horse, and stupid repetition without you doing your research will never end. I can't hold your hand through this like a baby.

This conversation has ended. Keep the respect and keep it pushing if you don't have other questions.
 
Those are not cultural parallels when we deal with descent groups. You need to use your basic reasoning skills, bud. It's getting ridiculous. "Cultural parallels" are us and the Turkana. The fact that you conflate this with people we descend from is insincere argumentation. That is why I told you not to waste my time engaging in needless back-and-forth.

On the matter of proving anything, that is the reason why I told you to read the research established on the forum. You will get there if you try, I'm sure.

The aspect of passion. I am beating a dead horse, and stupid repetition without you doing your research will never end. I can't hold your hand through this like a baby.

This conversation has ended. Keep the respect and keep it pushing if you don't have other questions.
My friend, you posted this of your own volition and nobody forced you to but now you seem to not like the critiques which you invited. If that wasn’t your intention then make that clear.

Descent groups? Are you arguing that since you think we descended from these Nubians you think it can’t be cultural parallels and then you question my reasoning skills? This is just flawed on your part.

I’m not sure what research you are pointing to but the fact that you didn’t tie it to your thesis here tells me it’s a red herring.

Finally, on disrespect, nobody disrespected you here, on the contrary it’s you who’s being disrespectful but that’s ok. I’ll take it as your strong emotional investment in all of this. No hard feelings.
 

Shimbiris

بىَر غىَل إيؤ عآنؤ لؤ
VIP
For people who know a thing or two about Somali historical culture, feathers on the heads of males are granted to the ones who best others in a fight to the death. This feather-wearing is a practice that goes back to the Nubian days:

From Lower Nubia between 3500-3000 years ago:
View attachment 359746

Othere Lower Nubian (also the Upper Nubians wore feathers):
View attachment 359747
View attachment 359748

This is from older rock art in the central Eastern Desert, Egypt.

"Feathers are the most common feature added to the basic body shape. Both Rohl (2000) and Wilkinson (2003) maintained that plumes not only represented status, but that divinity and twin plumes were a precursor of the double-plumes worn by gods and goddesses in the pharaonic era. They are examined here to determine if they are may indicate status or are associated with hunting, since the latter is such a feature of the Central Eastern Desert petroglyphs."

Distribution:View attachment 359749

If the Somali practice of putting feathers only after killing someone, it does answer why these guys reason to wear them. Here they seem clueless:

"Plumed figures are mostly found in the southern wadis and at sites dated to the Predynastic (see Chapter Seven). They are especially prevalent in the heavily early Wadis Baramiya, Hajalij (S), and Umm Salam. But they also feature at predynastic sites in Abu Wasil, and this north-central wadi sees a concentration of feathered figures. There are comparatively few examples in Wadi Hammamat where there are a number of pharaonic figures, only one of which has double plumes. In Wadi Atwani again plumed figures are present entirely at early sites in association with predynastic boats. In the core central Wadis Iqaydi and Shalul plumed figures are rare."

Here is evidence that the North Cushites, Blemmyes (ancestors of the Beja) wore feathers and even depicted such:

"However, plumes do not always indicate an early date. At IQA-10 comparison to Greek lettering shows that one plumed figure in a boat is probably Greco Roman. The plumes also have bulbous ends, a feature never seen on predynastic figures (Figure 5.9)."

In reality, this is a practice that likely goes way deeper in time and relates to the AEA side of Cushitic ancestry. Why do I say this? Because Nilo-Saharan peoples also wear feathers on their heads.
View attachment 359750

View attachment 359751

Trusting ChatGPT on this, I asked why the Hamer men wear plumes on their heads. The machine answered; it is a symbol of bravery and status, and masculinity, after going through a rite of passage. Their specific challenge has to do with bull-jumping. If the individual succeeds, the male becomes an adult and eligible for marriage. I think this is, in structural framework, similar to the Somali, where we signify the ultimate rights of passage as being a warrior, with the morbid reality being, to test one's prowess is to battle someone. If one succeeds, that becomes the sign of bravery, status, masculinity, etc. In that regard, I think that it is overall the same since those ancients in the Egyptian Central Eastern Desert. Only for them, it was about hunting as a rights of passage:
View attachment 359752

To give us more insight, the mixed Rendille (with Samburu) wear a spesific headgear that they place several feathers on.
View attachment 359753

For the Rendilles, it showcases ones expressed and proven hunting prowess.
View attachment 359754

For the Turkana, it is for the same reason as the Somalis.

"A warrior also has the right to wear white ostrich feathers. The warlike philosophy of the Turkana fascinated E. R. Shackleton, who was a District Commissoner in Lodwar during the 1930s. Shackleton recorded a long story told by a veteran chief named Lonyamon: 'I was a warrior. I knew everything. And ever since I have killed a man I have worn nothing but the best ostrich feathers -- white.'"

The Turkana are nilotics who are mixed with Cushites.

This is the hunter palette of Naqada III, dated to 3100 BC:
View attachment 359756

To summarize, this feather-wearing practice has to do with masculinity affirmation and social status that has existed for at least 5000 years (plus) and goes back to the Nubian region (for us, much more recently). I don't want to go too deep with the Eastern Desert rock art stuff because it goes into a whole lot of things that have massive historical significance, and it is an expansive topic that needs its respective focus.

Thank you. Yet another to add to the list. I've completed 3/4ths of my "We came from Nubia" post for Anthromadness and the last 1/4 is basically about showing cultural parallels I've noticed between East-Cushites (namely Somalis) and the people of the Nile Valley like AEs and Nubians and the peculiar fact that these parallels I have noticed seem pre-Hellenic and pre-Christian which is peculiar if we are supposed to have gotten these elements through trade.

Of course you and I both know we got these cultural elements from our ancestors having been in that region 3,000 to 4,500 years ago.
 
Last edited:
Thank you. Yet another to add to the list. I've completed 3/4ths of my "We came from Nubia" post for Anthromadness and the last 1/4 is basically about showing cultural parallels I've noticed between East-Cushites (namely Somalis) and the people of the Nile Valley like AEs and Nubians and the peculiar fact that these parallels I have noticed seem pre-Hellenic and pre-Christian which is peculiar if we are supposed to have gotten these elements through trade.

Of course you and I both know we got these cultural elements from our ancestors having been in that region 3,000 to 4,500 years ago.
I would correct one thing and say it is not parallel if we descend from one of those groups (only parallel to other groups, which you indeed mentioned). I only say this because that other guy started to conflate parallelism from diachronic descent and continuity. I understand you're being broad in language since it is not that important in general, but I had a guy spending time wasting my time by trying to imbue failure in my statements.

I asked ChatGPT just to make sure if I was tripping, lmao. The machine reaffirmed what I said:

1745288654398.png


I only say this because I will not give this guy an inch. I'm usually not a stickler for fucking language but I not show charitability.

We have undoubtedly satisfied that we are indeed a Nubian continuity, the thing he called a "red herring."

But on the matter of your post. There is really a lot to talk about on the Nubian matter.
 

Shimbiris

بىَر غىَل إيؤ عآنؤ لؤ
VIP
I would correct one thing and say it is not parallel if we descend from one of those groups (only parallel to other groups, which you indeed mentioned). I only say this because that other guy started to conflate parallelism from diachronic descent and continuity. I understand you're being broad in language since it is not that important in general, but I had a guy spending time wasting my time by trying to imbue failure in my statements.

I asked ChatGPT just to make sure if I was tripping, lmao. The machine reaffirmed what I said:

View attachment 359774

I only say this because I will not give this guy an inch. I'm usually not a stickler for fucking language but I not show charitability.

We have undoubtedly satisfied that we are indeed a Nubian continuity, the thing he called a "red herring."

But on the matter of your post. There is really a lot to talk about on the Nubian matter.

I haven't gone through the thread much but last I recall @TheLand seemed totally onboard with our Nile Valley origins, but either way you are correct. Not "parallelism" in that these are essentially inherited traditions. With all the stuff I've looked at and you've shared at this point, when I read about groups like the A-Group, Wawat and the Kermans I'm picturing the ancestors of modern groups such as Somalis, Afars, Sahos, Sidamos and Oromos.

Dem "Ta-Seti" folks the Egyptians were talking about were our awoowes and ayeeyos. Kekekekek.
 
I haven't gone through the thread much but last I recall @TheLand seemed totally onboard with our Nile Valley origins, but either way you are correct. Not "parallelism" in that these are essentially inherited traditions. With all the stuff I've looked at and you've shared at this point, when I read about groups like the A-Group, Wawat and the Kermans I'm picturing the ancestors of modern groups such as Somalis, Afars, Sahos, Sidamos and Oromos.

Dem "Ta-Seti" folks the Egyptians were talking about were our awoowes and ayeeyos. Kekekekek.
I’m not really even disagreeing with him sxb, but the defensiveness is incredibly revealing. Nothing is more fascinating to me than human nature.
 
I've got much of your writings bookmarked or can find them via search but if you could go again into the evidence you've seen of East-Cushitic assimilation into the Beja in some detail that would be great and maybe also addressing incense being older among Nubians even despite the Maadi finding?
When was the Maadi dated again? Those were the Delta Asiatics who were between 4800-4000 BC or something?
 
@Shimbiris let me take you through my thinking process amid the constraints we're faced with. Check if it sound. Nubiologists and Egyptologists both agree that incense is a thing sourced south of the region of Egypt. Maadi lived fairly north. Ancient prehistoric Nubians did trade widely. That is knowing. The thing is, the Maadi would not know what incense is unless they got it from where it was native and that would mean the vernacular use of incense had to be conveyed to them.

Now there are two possibilities. The prehistoric Nubians gave incense to the Maadi. Or the Maadi got it from the east. Namely, the Levant or other places, if they had incense. If not, it seems that they got it indeed from Nubia. The reason why this is kind a good point is that Nubians introduced it to Upper Egypt, not Maadi, according to what the Egyptologists speculate.

To me it seems quite frankly that Maadi used it independently and it was an isolated case, and the Nubians also got it respectively, or the Nubians gave it to the Maadi. We need to establish if there was trade between then first.

If it was from Arabia, then it went through a long-distance trade route. The Maadi did have connections with Palestine. If there can be established a connection between them and South Arabia, and if they possibly got incense during the Maadi period, then it is a strong possibility.
 

Shimbiris

بىَر غىَل إيؤ عآنؤ لؤ
VIP
@Shimbiris let me take you through my thinking process amid the constraints we're faced with. Check if it sound. Nubiologists and Egyptologists both agree that incense is a thing sourced south of the region of Egypt. Maadi lived fairly north. Ancient prehistoric Nubians did trade widely. That is knowing. The thing is, the Maadi would not know what incense is unless they got it from where it was native and that would mean the vernacular use of incense had to be conveyed to them.

Now there are two possibilities. The prehistoric Nubians gave incense to the Maadi. Or the Maadi got it from the east. Namely, the Levant or other places, if they had incense. If not, it seems that they got it indeed from Nubia. The reason why this is kind a good point is that Nubians introduced it to Upper Egypt, not Maadi, according to what the Egyptologists speculate.

To me it seems quite frankly that Maadi used it independently and it was an isolated case, and the Nubians also got it respectively, or the Nubians gave it to the Maadi. We need to establish if there was trade between then first.

If it was from Arabia, then it went through a long-distance trade route. The Maadi did have connections with Palestine. If there can be established a connection between them and South Arabia, and if they possibly got incense during the Maadi period, then it is a strong possibility.

Yes, the person who brought Maadi to my attention also basically aligned with your view, as do I:

the maadi finding predates the qustul incense burners by a few centuries.

But the southern origin is strongly suggested even by the Egyptian evidence. In the Old Kingdom, Egyptian texts say Nubian gods like Dedwen was associated incense; Dedwen’s “scent” was likened to snTr (incense). This imo shows Egypt that viewed Nubia as an incense source. Not to mention the Punt. Combined with frankincense/myrrh trees growing further south, it strongly supports a Nubian/southern origin for the custom imo.

It's also, to me, quite telling that there seems some evidence of incense burning among the Pastoral Neolithic. This seems an integral part of Nubian culture that they even perhaps took with them as far afield as SE Africa.
 

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