The Black Woman vs The White women. Dr Umar Johnson.

[Angelina]

True, but waiting for a man at the finish line also means he’ll be excepting you to be okay with a polygamous marriage, since he’s already able to provide for you and other women, or he’s going to be exceptionally more picky/choosy by which point most women don’t have a chance.

Men with wives that have struggled with them still go down the polygamous route. I know Habayars who were with their men when they were dirt poor and even sold their gold to help their men become a bit of a success and be still married again. Thinking that a lot of men will be loyal because their wives saw them at their worst is fantasy that a lot of women fall into.

There’s never any solutions but concessions, pick what works for you.

Ultimately the dr Umar guy is right but speaking in a highly exaggerated tone. More stable communities have women who are more willing to invest in men they think will do well or decent while struggling communities will have women jump at the chance of finding a man who’s higher status than them. This obviously somewhat correlates with black vs white women in America.

He isn’t right. He’s ignoring statistical trend and subverting reality. White and Asian women more than any other demographic tend to be married to or in relationships with breadwinner men. The PEW statistical center illustrates this.

Black women even in relationships tend to be the breadwinner or earning around the same. They’re already doing what you’re advocating, yet white women are being praised for doing what black women do even though white women tend to go for providers so much more than their black female counterparts.

All stable communities have women that are mostly/more likely to be with breadwinners. I don’t want to insult groups, but I really do see it as the height of emasculation to also expect your women to continuously lower their standards and provide for their men. This mentality is a sickness.

 

[Basra]

I want to imagine having a brain of Jammy, and then eating Jam and Rootti with Angie

 

[Abdirazaq]

Men with wives that have struggled with them still go down the polygamous route. I know Habayars who were with their men when they were dirt poor and even sold their gold to help their men become a bit of a success and be still married again. Thinking that a lot of men will be loyal because their wives saw them at their worst is fantasy that a lot of women fall into.

whataboutism doesn’t really work here, look at the most richest people in the world, which ones were more likely to become players? The ones who had a women that came up with them or the ones who didn’t have anyone then suddenly had women flocking to him? The answer is obvious. Most stable/successful relationships tend to be the ones where intelligent women recognised a man’s potential and secured him before he became successful in any great sense.

A women thinking a successful man will be loyal towards him after he’s made it rather than before he made it is delusional. That’s not to say men that have more options don’t cheat period, they obviously do whether they make it or not, however one senario is worse than the other.

He isn’t right. He’s ignoring statistical trend and subverting reality. White and Asian women more than any other demographic tend to be married to or in relationships with breadwinner men. The PEW statistical center illustrates this.

i don’t know about the statistics per se but it’s obvious that minority women from low socio-economic backgrounds are much more concerned with a man’s immediate ability to provide due to their unstable backgrounds compared to women from more stable backgrounds where that’s less of a concern, this is due to the fact that these women will naturally be around men who will be middle class compared to the minority groups who know they’re around bums for the most part. The actual studies you’re referring to don’t look at preferences but rather outcomes which clearly aren’t the same thing.

It’d be like me saying black mothers are more concerned in terms of what elementary school their child goes to compared to white mothers generally but the outcomes still prove that white kids have better education.

Black women even in relationships tend to be the breadwinner or earning around the same. They’re already doing what you’re advocating, yet white women are being praised for doing what black women do even though white women tend to go for providers so much more than their black female counterparts.

Agree to disagree.

All stable communities have women that are mostly/more likely to be with breadwinners. I don’t want to insult groups, but I really do see it as the height of emasculation to also expect your women to continuously lower their standards and provide for their men. This mentality is a sickness.

I don’t know where you’re going with this strawman, where did women providing come into the topic? Generally intelligent women acquire men with potential before they’ve reached that potential, that just seems to be the case, so advising women to look for a man that’s already made it is a tough ask, women should be looking for men to be with in University, this is the best time to find a man with potential. good look trying to find him when you’re working a 9-5 and will never come in contact with them.

look at the women in Somalia, they’re overwhelmingly likely to be with a man as low status as them while they do important work on an economic level but that doesn’t mean, they have the mentality of seeking out a partner who’s higher status compared to women from more comfortable economic backgrounds.

 

[Angelina]

whataboutism doesn’t really work here, look at the most richest people in the world, which ones were more likely to become players? The ones who had a women that came up with them or the ones who didn’t have anyone then suddenly had women flocking to him? The answer is obvious. Most stable/successful relationships tend to be the ones where intelligent women recognised a man’s potential and secured him before he became successful in any great sense.

I don’t think mainstream media is a good example since most of those men with wives they’ve built with have either cheated or left them. Jesse Williams even had a madow wife who supported him when broke, guess what? He cheated on her with white women and divorced. Snoop dogg notorious cheat. Jeff Bezoz cheated. You’re digging yourself a whole. Hardly any of them have been faithful.

A women thinking a successful man will be loyal towards him after he’s made it rather than before he made it is delusional. That’s not to say men that have more options don’t cheat period, they obviously do whether they make it or not, however one senario is worse than the other.

Most of those men who became succesful didn’t stay loyal as well. So what’s your point? What’s worse for a woman is building a man and being left and that’s a very common occurrence since you want to talk about Celebs. From Kevin hart to Jesse Williams I can go into detail.

i don’t know about the statistics per se but it’s obvious that minority women from low socio-economic backgrounds are much more concerned with a man’s immediate ability to provide due to their unstable backgrounds compared to women from more stable backgrounds where that’s less of a concern

That’s absolute waffle. Women from richer backgrounds marry richer and understand that provision is important. People marry within their class to keep wealth. I don’t know who you’ve come to that conclusion as it goes against every statistical fact. Also, women tend to go for what’s been modeled at home. Women with provider fathers are much more likely to expect provider husbands than one that seen her mother do it all. People that have been raised with higher standards tend to have higher standards. The same goes for other aspects of socialization such as cheating, love, drug abuse and the list continues. What’s been modeled at home becomes the norm and expectations.

, this is due to the fact that these women will naturally be around men who will be middle class compared to the minority groups who know they’re around bums for the most part. The actual studies you’re referring to don’t look at preferences but rather outcomes which clearly aren’t the same thing.

What’s obvious to you isn’t backed by statistics. Black women are actually usually the breadwinners in their relationships and do indeed marry men who are struggling.
Even in the Somali community whilst the women aren’t the breadwinners marry regular Uber driver or Warehouse Abdi is normal. I really believe some of you guys on here need to start being more observant with *actual real life trends and statistics than falling back on feelings and the likes.

Also as for your point of preferences that’s stupid. Because all women would prefer rich good looking men, white women included and they get richer men on average, same way all men want beautiful women, so what’s your point Jammy. Really Jammy?

It’d be like me saying black mothers are more concerned in terms of what elementary school their child goes to compared to white mothers generally but the outcomes still prove that white kids have better education.

We are talking about outcomes. White, black, Green you name it would ideally want a rich and successful husband. That’s female nature. So basically you really believe that white women don’t want that?

Agree to disagree.

That is a statistical fact. This isn’t something you can disagree with. I find these topics frustrating as many of you guys go on your bias rather than actual real life trends.

I don’t know where you’re going with this strawman, where did women providing come into the topic? Generally intelligent women acquire men with potential before they’ve reached that potential, that just seems to be the case, so advising women to look for a man that’s already made it is a tough ask, women should be looking for men to be with in University, this is the best time to find a man with potential. good look trying to find him when you’re working a 9-5 and will never come in contact with them.

I’m not interested in that point. I’m arguing with you over your claims that white women look at potential whilst black women don’t which is a lie upon lie. Black women often get with these lower socioeconomic men thinking they’ll make something of themselves if they ‘build together’ looking at statistics it’s black women that are contributing more in their relationships and building whilst it’s white women who get taken care of more.

look at the women in Somalia, they’re overwhelmingly likely to be with a man as low status as them while they do important work on an economic level but that doesn’t mean, they have the mentality of seeking out a partner who’s higher status compared to women from more comfortable economic backgrounds.

You clearly don’t know anything about Somalia. Somalia is a patriarchal society in which men keep their end of the bargain. Women don’t build with men there. The man fully provides and women there will often marry older married men if it means they can be looked after.

 

[Abdirazaq]

Men with wives that have struggled with them still go down the polygamous route. I know Habayars who were with their men when they were dirt poor and even sold their gold to help their men become a bit of a success and be still married again. Thinking that a lot of men will be loyal because their wives saw them at their worst is fantasy that a lot of women fall into.

He isn’t right. He’s ignoring statistical trend and subverting reality. White and Asian women more than any other demographic tend to be married to or in relationships with breadwinner men. The PEW statistical center illustrates this.

Black women even in relationships tend to be the breadwinner or earning around the same. They’re already doing what you’re advocating, yet white women are being praised for doing what black women do even though white women tend to go for providers so much more than their black female counterparts.

All stable communities have women that are mostly/more likely to be with breadwinners. I don’t want to insult groups, but I really do see it as the height of emasculation to also expect your women to continuously lower their standards and provide for their men. This mentality is a sickness.

I don’t think mainstream media is a good example since most of those men with wives they’ve built with have either cheated or left them. Jesse Williams even had a madow wife who supported him when broke, guess what? He cheated on her with white women and divorced. Snoop dogg notorious cheat. Jeff Bezoz cheated. You’re digging yourself a whole. Hardly any of them have been faithful.


Most of those men who became succesful didn’t stay loyal as well. So what’s your point? What’s worse for a woman is building a man and being left and that’s a very common occurrence since you want to talk about Celebs. From Kevin hart to Jesse Williams I can go into detail.

What’s obvious to you isn’t backed by statistics. Black women are actually usually the breadwinners in their relationships and do indeed marry men who are struggling.
Even in the Somali community whilst the women aren’t the breadwinners marry regular Uber driver or Warehouse Abdi is normal. I really believe some of you guys on here need to start being more observant with *actual real life trends and statistics than falling back on feelings and the likes.

Also as for your point of preferences that’s stupid. Because all women would prefer rich good looking men, white women included and they get richer men on average, same way all men want beautiful women, so what’s your point Jammy. Really Jammy?


We are talking about outcomes. White, black, Green you name it would ideally want a rich and successful husband. That’s female nature. So basically you really believe that white women don’t want that?

I’m not interested in that point. I’m arguing with you over your claims that white women look at potential whilst black women don’t which is a lie upon lie. Black women often get with these lower socioeconomic men thinking they’ll make something of themselves if they ‘build together’ looking at statistics it’s black women that are contributing more in their relationships and building whilst it’s white women who get taken care of more.


You clearly don’t know anything about Somalia. Somalia is a patriarchal society in which men keep their end of the bargain. Women don’t build with men there. The man fully provides and women there will often marry older married men if it means they can be looked after.

look here’s a study that more aptly refers to what’s being talked about on here rather that whatever you’re going on about: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8179854/
Go to section: 3.2. and 3.3. It talks about preferences and strategies rather than outcomes. No need for silly back and forth.

I can’t believe you’re actually trying to argue women from more desperate backgrounds aren’t more immediately worried about whether a man can provide or not compared to those from more comfortable backgrounds. Some people will argue the sky is red if it goes with their agenda smh.

 

[Angelina]

look here’s a study that more aptly refers to what’s being talked about on here rather that whatever you’re going on about: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8179854/
Go to section: 3.2. and 3.3. It talks about preferences and strategies rather than outcomes. No need for silly back and forth.

Actually show me qoutes in which women from poorer backgrounds place more emphasis on a man’s socio-eco background than richer women.

I can’t believe you’re actually trying to argue women from more desperate backgrounds aren’t more immediately worried about whether a man can provide or not compared to those from more comfortable backgrounds. Some people will argue the sky is red if it goes with their agenda smh.

Women from richer backgrounds marry richer and understand that provision is important. People marry within their class to keep wealth. I don’t know who you’ve come to that conclusion as it goes against every statistical fact. Also, women tend to go for what’s been modeled at home. Women with provider fathers are much more likely to expect provider husbands than one that seen her mother do it all. People that have been raised with higher standards tend to have higher standards. The same goes for other aspects of socialization such as cheating, love, drug abuse and the list continues. What’s been modeled at home becomes the norm and expectations.

Also, Jammy you’ve changed the goal post as preferences isn’t even the argument. Most women prefer richer men. That’s basically hypergamy. Your whole argument doesn’t make sense and goes against the reality that black women go for potential more so than white women simply because they don’t have a choice in the matter. I’m not saying that black women don’t have the same preferences but it’s a fact that women with provider fathers tend to be more aggressive about it and even if they do go for potential it must be tangible like he’s in Med school and is of a middle class background.

 

[Abdirazaq]

Actually show me qoutes in which women from poorer backgrounds place more emphasis on a man’s socio-eco background than richer women.

Women from richer backgrounds marry richer and understand that provision is important. People marry within their class to keep wealth. I don’t know who you’ve come to that conclusion as it goes against every statistical fact. Also, women tend to go for what’s been modeled at home. Women with provider fathers are much more likely to expect provider husbands than one that seen her mother do it all. People that have been raised with higher standards tend to have higher standards. The same goes for other aspects of socialization such as cheating, love, drug abuse and the list continues. What’s been modeled at home becomes the norm and expectations.

Also, Jammy you’ve changed the goal post as preferences isn’t even the argument. Most women prefer richer men. That’s basically hypergamy. Your whole argument doesn’t make sense and goes against the reality that black women go for potential more so than white women simply because they don’t have a choice in the matter. I’m not saying that black women don’t have the same preferences but it’s a fact that women with provider fathers tend to be more aggressive about it and even if they do go for potential it must be tangible like he’s in Med school and is of a middle class background.

Okay just ignore the study I provided you lol. I haven’t changed my goalposts at all. I intially said women from higher socioeconomic backgrounds are less concerned with a man’s immediate ability to provide and are more willing to invest (in a clever way obviously) compared to women from poorer socio-economic backgrounds which roughly correlates with black women and white women but keep coping .

So disingenuous. I’m not shifting goalposts, you’re straw manning me and now you’re gaslighting me.

 

[Angelina]

Okay just ignore the study I provided you lol. I haven’t changed my goalposts at all. I intially said women from higher socioeconomic backgrounds are less concerned with a man’s immediate ability to provide

What proof do you have black women aren’t willing to invest in a black man that’s at university studying Medicine for instance? You do know that black women tend to enroll in universities at a much higher rate than their men? More than any other demographic btw? So how do they that when in a university setting for instance they’re like 1 to 5 with regards to their men? Do you not see how easy it is to dismantle your arguments?

and are more willing to invest (in a clever way obviously) compared to women from poorer socio-economic backgrounds which roughly correlates with black women and white women but keep coping .

So disingenuous.

I’m not ignoring it, I want you to show me where. I wasn’t ignoring it, I wouldn’t of asked that of you. Btw, I’m still reading the study. Where does the study show that?!
And you’re calling me disingenuous? Let’s stop debating to just be right, if you can show me this, I’ll start to look at things differently.

 

[Angelina]

@Jammy, did you actually read your own study Horta?

‘For example, compared to their more affluent peers, individuals raised in lower-SES communities have been found to be more accurate at judging the emotions of strangers (Kraus, Cote, & Keltner, 2010), more motivated to seek out community (as opposed to personal wealth) when confronted by uncertainty’

This study literally goes against your point. Poorer people tend to compared to richer people seek out community more so than wealth.

Check this out as well:


Look at your own source:

‘In light of the powerful tendency for men and women to seek out and find partners within their own level of education and income’

That is what they ‘seek’. What they want.

 

[Abdirazaq]

@Jammy

Look at your own source:

‘In light of the powerful tendency for men and women to seek out and find partners within their own level of education and income’

That is what they ‘seek’. What they want

Do I have to put the whole study on here to provide context .

“What distinguishes lower-income from higher-income couples are not values and standards but expectations. When middle-income or more affluent couples imagine a desired future, the desired two-income family appears to be well within reach, and for most college educated people, it is. Higher-income women who delay marriage to attend college can be confident that another college-educated partner will be available and willing to marry them after they graduate (Musick et al., 2012). Working-class and poor couples aspire toward the same ideal future, but “forces beyond the control of the individual tear up the pathways that make realization of those aspirations possible” (Carbone & Cahn, 2014, p. 32). Unlike their college-educated peers, women who do not attend college cannot be confident of finding a partner who earns a living wage at all (Gerson, 2010). With the availability of their desired relationships less certain, poorer couples are accordingly more skeptical about the future of their current ones.”

This plucky individual may continue on a path to success or may falter, may remain focused or may develop self-destructive habits, may choose a lucrative career or become an academic. The more time that passes, the greater the reduction in uncertainty about how this person’s life will turn out. At higher levels of income, where relatively low male-to-female gender ratios allow women to be selective, and where women’s own earning potential allow a degree of independence, the adaptive choice is to delay making a long-term commitment to a romantic partner until some of these unknowns become known.

The behavior of college-educated couples is consistent with this idea. When such couples cohabit, they do so with confidence that they will eventually marry, but meanwhile they scrupulously avoid pregnancy and invest in their careers (Miller et al., 2011). On average, this strategy pays off. The longer that individuals delay marriage, the more likely they are to marry someone with a similar level of education (Schwartz & Mare, 2005). Those who wait until they have maximized their own earning potential are increasingly likely to marry other top-earners.”


“Like their high SES peers, those at lower levels of SES would also like to find partners capable of matching or exceeding their own contributions to the household income (Gerson, 2010). In poorer communities, however, a combination of high rates of incarceration and high rates of unemployment leave relatively few men meeting this criterion (Lichter, McLaughlin, Kephart, & Landry, 1992) and these trends have hit African American men especially hard (Banks, 2011). Lower-income women, whose employment is less affected by boom and bust cycles and who have easier access to public assistance as the likely caregiver of any children, thus face a significant undersupply of men that they would consider reasonable marriage material, and no realistic optimism that this situation will change with time. Given that men who work less outside the home generally do not compensate by contributing more within the home (Schneider, 2011), low-income women reasonably question whether making a long term commitment to a partner who cannot earn a living is in their best interests (Edin & Reed, 2005) and whether such a union is likely to last (Burton, Cherlin, Winn, Estacion, & Holder-Taylor, 2009). Low-income men likewise have reasons to resist long-term commitments. Those with employment and earnings adequate for supporting a family know they are in short supply, and thus can play the field with impunity. Those who lack steady employment or sufficient income know they are unable to meet their partner’s expectations, and may resist committing to avoid facing their disappointment (Harknett & McLanahan, 2004).

Awareness of their options in the mating market affects how individuals at different levels of SES approach intimacy (Carbone & Cahn, 2014). Contexts where men’s economic prospects are uncertain inhibit couples from forming long-term commitments. Thus, when unemployment rates rise, marriage rates fall (Harknett & Kuperberg, 2011). Indeed, the decline in men’s economic prospects and the rise in male incarceration account for a significant portion of the overall decline in marriage rates over the past 45 years (Schneider, Harknett, & Stimpson, 2018). In contrast, partners with more education, and therefore more reason to be confident about their economic futures, are more likely to foresee making tangible investments in their current relationship, like opening joint bank accounts (Emery & Le, 2014).”

Please take studies into context without cherry picking quotes.

 

[Angelina]

Do I have to put the whole study on here to provide context .

“What distinguishes lower-income from higher-income couples are not values and standards but expectations. When middle-income or more affluent couples imagine a desired future, the desired two-income family appears to be well within reach, and for most college educated people, it is. Higher-income women who delay marriage to attend college can be confident that another college-educated partner will be available and willing to marry them after they graduate (Musick et al., 2012). Working-class and poor couples aspire toward the same ideal future, but “forces beyond the control of the individual tear up the pathways that make realization of those aspirations possible” (Carbone & Cahn, 2014, p. 32). Unlike their college-educated peers, women who do not attend college cannot be confident of finding a partner who earns a living wage at all (Gerson, 2010). With the availability of their desired relationships less certain, poorer couples are accordingly more skeptical about the future of their current ones.”

This plucky individual may continue on a path to success or may falter, may remain focused or may develop self-destructive habits, may choose a lucrative career or become an academic. The more time that passes, the greater the reduction in uncertainty about how this person’s life will turn out. At higher levels of income, where relatively low male-to-female gender ratios allow women to be selective, and where women’s own earning potential allow a degree of independence, the adaptive choice is to delay making a long-term commitment to a romantic partner until some of these unknowns become known.

The behavior of college-educated couples is consistent with this idea. When such couples cohabit, they do so with confidence that they will eventually marry, but meanwhile they scrupulously avoid pregnancy and invest in their careers (Miller et al., 2011). On average, this strategy pays off. The longer that individuals delay marriage, the more likely they are to marry someone with a similar level of education (Schwartz & Mare, 2005). Those who wait until they have maximized their own earning potential are increasingly likely to marry other top-earners.”


“Like their high SES peers, those at lower levels of SES would also like to find partners capable of matching or exceeding their own contributions to the household income (Gerson, 2010). In poorer communities, however, a combination of high rates of incarceration and high rates of unemployment leave relatively few men meeting this criterion (Lichter, McLaughlin, Kephart, & Landry, 1992) and these trends have hit African American men especially hard (Banks, 2011). Lower-income women, whose employment is less affected by boom and bust cycles and who have easier access to public assistance as the likely caregiver of any children, thus face a significant undersupply of men that they would consider reasonable marriage material, and no realistic optimism that this situation will change with time. Given that men who work less outside the home generally do not compensate by contributing more within the home (Schneider, 2011), low-income women reasonably question whether making a long term commitment to a partner who cannot earn a living is in their best interests (Edin & Reed, 2005) and whether such a union is likely to last (Burton, Cherlin, Winn, Estacion, & Holder-Taylor, 2009). Low-income men likewise have reasons to resist long-term commitments. Those with employment and earnings adequate for supporting a family know they are in short supply, and thus can play the field with impunity. Those who lack steady employment or sufficient income know they are unable to meet their partner’s expectations, and may resist committing to avoid facing their disappointment (Harknett & McLanahan, 2004).

Awareness of their options in the mating market affects how individuals at different levels of SES approach intimacy (Carbone & Cahn, 2014). Contexts where men’s economic prospects are uncertain inhibit couples from forming long-term commitments. Thus, when unemployment rates rise, marriage rates fall (Harknett & Kuperberg, 2011). Indeed, the decline in men’s economic prospects and the rise in male incarceration account for a significant portion of the overall decline in marriage rates over the past 45 years (Schneider, Harknett, & Stimpson, 2018). In contrast, partners with more education, and therefore more reason to be confident about their economic futures, are more likely to foresee making tangible investments in their current relationship, like opening joint bank accounts (Emery & Le, 2014).”

Please take studies into context without cherry picking quotes.

Not one part of this study suggests that richer women are likely to invest in potential. I don’t know what you’re trying to do here Jammy. In fact it’s says that higher income women delay marriage more and are more confident about getting a richer man.

What does that have to do with investing. The fact that you’re trying to post a whole block of text that doesn’t even fit into your argument is insane. Actually highlight key parts.

 

[Abdirazaq]

@Jammy, did you actually read your own study Horta?

‘For example, compared to their more affluent peers, individuals raised in lower-SES communities have been found to be more accurate at judging the emotions of strangers (Kraus, Cote, & Keltner, 2010), more motivated to seek out community (as opposed to personal wealth) when confronted by uncertainty’

This study literally goes against your point. Poorer people tend to compared to richer people seek out community more so than wealth.

What does that have to do with mating strategies in the specific context of dating? Wow you’re so disingenuous. I can’t believe you’re refuting everything this study says about the point I originally made and now you’re just cherry picking random stuff. I guess you’re just going to gaslight me, obfuscate the evidence I provide you and then cherry pick the quotes that had nothing to do with the original point. I’m done here, I proved my point and everyone else can see it.

 

[Angelina]

What does that have to do with mating strategies in the specific context of dating? Wow you’re so disingenuous.

This is what you said:

‘I can’t believe you’re actually trying to argue women from more desperate backgrounds aren’t more immediately worried about whether a man can provide or not compared to those from more comfortable backgrounds. Some people will argue the sky is red if it goes with their agenda smh.’

You literally argued that poorer women care more about provision than richer women, when the study literally says the people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds will prize community.

 

[Abdirazaq]

This is what you said:

‘I can’t believe you’re actually trying to argue women from more desperate backgrounds aren’t more immediately worried about whether a man can provide or not compared to those from more comfortable backgrounds. Some people will argue the sky is red if it goes with their agenda smh.’

You literally argued that poorer women care more about provision than richer women, when the study literally says the people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds will prize community.

I never said poor women care more about provision that richer women lol, I never said than but keep misquoting me or just reread my statement.

I guess you could just continue the strategy of misquoting me, gaslighting me, cherry picking quotes that have nothing to do with the original point and ignoring my evidence. Keep at it.

 

[Angelina]

I never said poor women care more about provision that richer women lol, I never said that but keep misquoting me or just reread my statement.

Your whole point is immediate provision? Misread it.

I guess you could just continue the strategy of misquoting me, gaslighting me, cherry picking quotes that have nothing to do with the original point and ignoring my evidence. Keep at it.

I literally don’t have an agenda of misquoting you and I can admit I read it wrong? How about that? I have no agenda and I find it very weird you’re on the defensive.

I never ignored your evidence, sending someone a block of text and not being able to draw out the relevant evidence will lead to this. Show me where and if you can’t do it then you’re the disingenuous one. At least I’m honest enough to admit that I misread your point.

 

[mohamedismail]

This is absolutely facts. I've noticed that white women will rather look at a mans potential compared to what he can provide now.

Black women ( Somali women included) care more about what the man can immediately provide. In our community its all about 50k mahr and huge weddings. If you can't provide that somali women will probably tell you to keep it stepping.

Also people shouldn't mistake that anyone is saying marry a broke bum with no ambitions. Rather you should consider a ambitious guy that's on a path that will allow him to reach success in the future.

Many black women (including Somali women) go for these trappers and drug dealers because of what they can provide now. But in the future will complain 'where are the good men?' after they rejected all the academic young guys who had bright futures.

Many black women will also complain about black men marrying white women and other non black women. But they forget that majority of these black men got with these women when they were broke and all they had was a dream of being successful.

 

[Angelina]

This is absolutely facts. I've noticed that white women will rather look at a mans potential compared to what he can provide now.

White women tend to marry within their class. An upper class man at a prestigious university is bound to have a successful trajectory. Using the mating strategies of those that of the same income and family backgrounds is insane. Btw, less black men are in university compared to their female counterparts. Black women out graduate black men more so than any community out graduates their men. Hence they have a much smaller pool to choose from whilst at university.

Black women ( Somali women included) care more about what the man can immediately provide. In our community its all about 50k mahr and huge weddings. If you can't provide that somali women will probably tell you to keep it stepping.

This is what I mean when I say many of you guys on here are delusional and are consumed by self hatred and the internet. Firstly, the 50k Mehr is a meme. The average Mehr in the Somali community is 2-5k. Somalis in fact have the lowest Mehr in the Muslim community. In fact the whole wedding, including the Mehr rarely goes about 25K. Get out of here with your nonsense. Authobillah at this point I’m going to assume you lot lie more than you consume water.

Also people shouldn't mistake that anyone is saying marry a broke bum with no ambitions. Rather you should consider a ambitious guy that's on a path that will allow him to reach success in the future.

Many black women (including Somali women) go for these trappers and drug dealers because of what they can provide now. But in the future will complain 'where are the good men?' after they rejected all the academic young guys who had bright futures.

That’s a blatant lie. Poorer women from rougher areas go for trappers. Middle class women regardless of background don’t. The same way most white women with black men tend to be poorer as well.

Many black women will also complain about black men marrying white women and other non black women. But they forget that majority of these black men got with these women when they were broke and all they had was a dream of being successful.

 

[Sophisticate]

I remember reading this study about middle-class college-educated African-American men interested in partnering exclusively with African-American women; many were content with the role of protector. Still, when providing support, they referred more to emotional or intangible provisions than financial because they thought they might end up with a better-off woman than themselves.

I think people are urging African-American women to steer away from being a rider for men out of fear of exploitation or worry about being a placeholder or starter wife/girlfriend. Many have heard the horror stories. They are likely tired of the strong black woman archetype who is ever sacrificing, as this behaviour appears more one-sided rather than mutualistic.

If anything, there will likely be a shift of more of them choosing to be childfree/childless. I mean, they are more skeptical about marriage and already have it harder with fewer marriage role models. They also experience higher single-mother households, higher maternal mortality rates and lower marriage rates than other ethnicities/races of women. I have noticed mass media portrayals centre them as mothers, not wives, and professionals who are often unpartnered, particularly in the 21st century.

Most of their contemporary media portrayals showcase toxic relationships between African-American men and women, often envisaged through unstable and tumultuous relationships or the classic weak-man and strong-woman pairing.

 

[Abdirazaq]

Your whole point is immediate provision? Misread it.

I literally don’t have an agenda of misquoting you and I can admit I read it wrong? How about that? I have no agenda and I find it very weird you’re on the defensive.

I never ignored your evidence, sending someone a block of text and not being able to draw out the relevant evidence will lead to this. Show me where and if you can’t do it then you’re the disingenuous one. At least I’m honest enough to admit that I misread your point.

Oh, so now you struggle with reading comprehension such that you misread my statements and now struggle to sift through a couple sentences and find out what sentences relate to my key points the most? Not to mention that the whole text I provided tangentially relates to my original points and can’t just be wafted away with the excuse of “block of text”.

Do I really need to spell it out for you like I’m reading you a bed time story? You’re much more smarter than that, I believe in you. In fact you’re much too smart for me not to believe you’re pulling another deceiving tactic. Just endlessly tell me to explain something that I provided, that could work.

I literally can’t anymore, I feeling like I’m in an abusive relationship, constantly being gaslit, lied to and having to explain myself without any real progress.

 

[Angelina]

Oh, so now you struggle with reading comprehension such that you misread my statements and now struggle to sift through a couple sentences and find out what sentences relate to my key points the most? Not to mention that the whole text I provided tangentially relates to my original points and can’t just be wafted away with the excuse of “block of text”.

It’s a whole lot more complicated than that. It doesn’t say that poorer women expect immediate provision, in fact it says:

‘Among the lower levels, a greater number of women grow mistrustful of the smaller number of men who are employed and earning enough to support a family.’

Socioeconomic Status and Intimate Relationships

The ways that couples form and manage their intimate relationships at higher and lower levels of socioeconomic status (SES) have been diverging steadily over the past several decades. At higher levels, couples postpone marriage and child-birth to invest ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Furthermore, the pool of men who are doing well and have better trajectories are much lower. Hence, madow women can’t even date based on potential successful trajectory of their men.

In poorer communities, however, a combination of high rates of incarceration and high rates of unemployment leave relatively few men meeting this criterion (Lichter, McLaughlin, Kephart, & Landry, 1992) and these trends have hit African American men especially hard (Banks, 2011).

Hence it isn’t as clear cut as you’re making it.

Do I really need to spell it out for you like I’m reading you a bed time story? You’re much more smarter than that, I believe in you. In fact you’re much too smart for me not to believe you’re pulling another deceiving tactic. Just endlessly tell me to explain something that I provided, that could work.

No, the issue is that you’re not trying to have a proper conversation. I am fully aware that I misread your point and I’m able to admit. But whilst you might have a point of upper class women investing in men’s potential, the potential of those men are indeed tangible and they are in fact of the same class, hence it isn’t banking on potential the way most of us would understand it. Example, a man at an Ivy League school, with upper middle class parents having a woman interested in him isn’t really gambling. It is a fact that statistically such a man will indeed make it as his family background already put him in the top 5%. Can the same be said for black women who will struggle to even find a middle class black man at Uni?

I literally can’t anymore, I feeling like I’m in an abusive relationship, constantly being gaslit, lied to and having to explain myself without any real progress.

Gaslighters don’t admit that they’re misread something or misunderstood. Nice try.