The Boni, Eyle, etc. are B2a or B2b

[Factz]

Damn this grant guy still hates on us somalis

Some things never change on this forum

He desperately hopes that any other group than the ethnic Somali predate Somalis in Somalia.

First he tried to push the Nigeria-origin Madowweyne as pre-Somali inhabitants of Somalia, but since that became totally annihilated he is now trying to scrape the Bantu-mixed Boon as the next pre-Somalis.

There are multiple documents and evidence of proto-Somalis being the ancient Barbara people who once dominated the Somali peninsula and had their own civilization known as the Somali city-states. No one disputes that except this old fool and he also says some outrages stuff like Bantus being native to southern Somalia when historically they never passed Tana river in Kenya and the Bantu tribes he mentions were simply ex-slaves and he always talks about Gosha tribe but doesn't realize they were slaves that worked on Jubba plantation for Geledi Sultanate. He denies many great historical Somali achievements but thankfully everything he says is pure bullshit and made up. What's funny is most of his sources are his made up blogs.

 

[Apollo]

There are multiple documents and evidence of proto-Somalis being the ancient Barbara people who once dominated the Somali peninsula and had their own civilization known as the Somali city-states. No one disputes that except this old fool and he also says some outrages stuff like Bantus being native to southern Somalia when historically they never passed Tana river in Kenya and the Bantu tribes he mentions were simply ex-slaves and he always talks about Gosha tribe but doesn't realize they were slaves that worked on Jubba plantation for Geledi Sultanate. He denies many great historical Somali achievements but thankfully everything he says is pure bullshit and made up. What's funny is most of his sources are his made up blogs.

But the guy is 75 years old so what do you expect? Old men tend to be more stupid and crazy so don't be surprised. His historical revisionist lies are mostly stated on Somali forums but not on Somali historical books or Somali museums so don't worry.

The purest Somalis are found in Northern Somalia. The ones with only T1a or E1b1b1 and nothing else.

 

[Factz]

The purest Somalis are found in Northern Somalia. The ones with only T1a or E1b1b1 and nothing else.

I might have to disagree with you there. Somalis across Somali peninsula look the same to me but Isaaq tend to look a little better than the others kkk.

Anyways, I've met Somalis from southern Somalia and NFD to deep Somali region and they all looked the same to me wallahi.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

He desperately hopes that any other group than the ethnic Somali predate Somalis in Somalia.

First he tried to push the Nigeria-origin Madowweyne as pre-Somali inhabitants of Somalia, but since that became totally annihilated he is now trying to scrape the Bantu-mixed Boon as the next pre-Somalis.

I think Somalia was empty before we migrated here from the original Cushitic homeland tbh

 

[Apollo]

I might have to disagree with you there. Somalis across Somali peninsula look the same to me but Isaaq tend to look a little better than the others kkk.

Anyways, I've met Somalis from southern Somalia and NFD to deep Somali region and they all looked the same to me wallahi.

Kenyan Somalis have already been found to be Omotic / Borana admixed.. Omotics are very different from Cushites despite both being East African and Afro-Asiatic there is a deep divergence.

Southern Somalis are the same as Northern Somalis, but with increased risk of Bantu admixed outliers. #Fact.

 

[Grant]

There are multiple documents and evidence of proto-Somalis being the ancient Barbara people who once dominated the Somali peninsula and had their own civilization known as the Somali city-states. No one disputes that except this old fool and he also says some outrages stuff like Bantus being native to southern Somalia when historically they never passed Tana river in Kenya and the Bantu tribes he mentions were simply ex-slaves and he always talks about Gosha tribe but doesn't realize they were slaves that worked on Jubba plantation for Geledi Sultanate. He denies many great historical Somali achievements but thankfully everything he says is pure bullshit and made up. What's funny is most of his sources are his made up blogs.

Factsdiid,

Get over it. The Eyle and Boni are B2a/b. They are khoisan. This isn't some linkless claim like all of yours.

In general you are correct about the Bantu expansion. Except for those associated with Shungwaya, the Bantus on their own never passed the Tana. But not all Negroids in Somalia come from Bantu stock. There are good reasons, supported by UN studies, to believe the Gabaweyn, Shabelli, Makanne, Shidle, etc. are natives related to the Ari of Ethiopia, who have an origin in the Sahara. There is agreement only that the Gosha and Mushunguli are of Bantu stock.

Geledi control of the Shabelli stopped a little below Merka. The reason the escaped slaves were able to establish themselves in the Lower Jubba was that the Geledi were never there. Yusuf of the Geledi was able to raise the entire Shabelli valley and the inter-river area because of general outrage over the burning of Baraawe by the Bardera Jamaaca. But he and his brother were both killed at Golwayn when they tried to take a port from the Biimaal with only their own forces, and Yusuf's two sons were later killed at Cagarreen (sp?) attempting the same feat. The Geledi ruled northeast of Afgoye, Bay, Bakool and Gedo. They were not present in the Lower Jubba. They were not a maritime people and they did not rule from Mog.

The Gosha and Mushunguli by themselves beat the combined Ogaden clans and had treaties with Zanzibar, the British, the Tunni and Biimaal. The Sultanate of the Gosha just doesn't fit into your narrative.

----------------------------------------------------

Don't you guys ever get embarrassed?

 

[Factz]

You're a joke honestly. Geledi Sultanate were maritime people and they followed the Ajuran legacy such as agriculture, taxing and trading. Where did they trade you fool? That was one of their major income and they had ports two ports like Barawa and Kismayo. At their height, they controlled Mogadishu and Lamu and even tried to colonize Merka because they were just that greedy.

Geledi Sultanate controlled the entire Jubbaland and the Bantu tribes you mentioned such as Gosha and Mushunguli were ex-slaves working on the Jubba plantation to help Geledi Sultanate economy to run. I mean the man Nassib Bundo and his tribe were a cannon folders for Geledi Sultanate in a resistance of Benadir coast against Italians which they controlled.

Here is a weakened Geledi Sultanate map in the early 20th century and it clearly shows them ruling the coast and having Barawa as their port since Rahanweyn were under Geledi domain and last time I checked Barawa was dominated by a sub-clan of Digil called Tunni which are closely related to Geledi.

You need to stop your lies because it's getting repetitive.

 

[Grant]

You're a joke honestly. Geledi Sultanate were maritime people and they followed the Ajuran legacy such as agriculture, taxing and trading. Where did they trade you fool? That was one of their major income and they had ports two ports like Barawa and Kismayo. At their height, they controlled Mogadishu and Lamu and even tried to colonize Merka because they were just that greedy.

Geledi Sultanate controlled the entire Jubbaland and the Bantu tribes you mentioned such as Gosha and Mushunguli were ex-slaves working on the Jubba plantation to help Geledi Sultanate economy to run. I mean the man Nassib Bundo and his tribe were a cannon folders for Geledi Sultanate in a resistance of Benadir coast against Italians which they controlled.

Here is a weakened Geledi Sultanate map in the early 20th century and it clearly shows them ruling the coast and having Barawa as their port since Rahanweyn were under Geledi domain and last time I checked Barawa was dominated by a sub-clan of Digil called Tunni which are closely related to Geledi.

You need to stop your lies because it's getting repetitive.

You don't read very well, do you? The Gosha Sultanate had treaties with Zanzibar, the British, Barawe, the Tunni and the Biimaal. The gray and the blue on your map mean the areas were Italian and the beige-pink indicate areas of British control. The Geledi lost it at Cagarreen and were no big deal by 1915. Note that both Hamar and Merka are under direct Italian rule.

At least your map shows the Geledi were never in the Jubba valley itself. The Geledi took Bardhere with the assistance of every clan in the Shabelli valley and much of the inter-river area, but they didn't hold it. The Tunni and Baraawe were also independent.

 

[Factz]

You don't read very well, do you? The Gosha Sultanate had treaties with Zanzibar, the British, Barawe, the Tunni and the Biimaal. The gray and the blue on your map mean the areas were Italian and the beige-pink indicate areas of British control. The Geledi lost it at Cagarreen and were no big deal by 1915. Note that both Hamar and Merka are under direct Italian rule.

I said early 20th century which shows Geledi Sultanate having a coast and ports so your lies of them not having access to coast or not being maritime is just lunatic and so bizarre.

Bantus had no Sultanates in southern Somalia. The entire Jubbaland was under the control of Geledi Sultanate. There are no documents of non Somalis establishing any civilization in Somali territory especially the Bantus.

"During the Middle Ages, the influential Somali Ajuran Empire held sway over the Jubbaland region, followed in turn by the Geledi Sultanate during the early modern period."

Source: Luling (2002), page.272.

The Gosha people were slaves of Geledi Sultanate working on the Jubba plantation. Them with a resistance force were nothing but cannon folders for the Geledi Sultanate which doesn't mean anything. Nassib Bundo was an ex-slave, remember that.

 

[Grant]

I just told you fool. I said early 20th century which shows Geledi Sultanate having a coast and ports so your lies of them not having access to coast or not being maritime is just lunatic and so bizarre.

Again idiot, Bantus had no Sultanates in southern Somalia. The entire Jubbaland was under the control of Geledi Sultanate. There are no documents of non Somalis establishing any civilization in Somali territory especially the Bantus.

"During the Middle Ages, the influential Somali Ajuran Empire held sway over the Jubbaland region, followed in turn by the Geledi Sultanate during the early modern period."

Source: Luling (2002), page.272.

The Gosha people were slaves of Geledi Sultanate working on the Jubba plantation. Them with a resistance force were nothing but cannon folders for the Geledi Sultanate which doesn't mean anything. Nassib Bundo was an ex-slave, remember that.

Can you seriously stop making things up?

That quote, and some others, are what make me doubt Luling. Nobody else is saying it. After Yusuf's death, his sons are doing favors for Zanzibar in Mog before they also get whacked by the Biimaal. I have an actual copy of Luling coming this week and will get back to you.

I know you won't want to read this, but you really should:

https://books.google.com/books?id=Y...&q=Nassib Bundo and the Ogaden tribes&f=false

Are you seriously saying an ex-slave can't be a Sultan? The Brits and Zanzibar both disagreed.

 

[Factz]

That quote, and some others, are what make me doubt Luling. Nobody else is saying it. After Yusuf's death, his sons are doing favors for Zanzibar in Mog before they also get whacked by the Biimaal. I have an actual copy of Luling coming this week and will get back to you.

I know you won't want to read this, but you really should:

https://books.google.com/books?id=YBUxDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA98&lpg=PA98&dq=Nassib+Bundo+and+the+Ogaden+tribes&source=bl&ots=ikc9ODhCUK&sig=IiSnDF9Rs3MMVDtQXgQaOUJD4LM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiWrPyN85_YAhUO2mMKHYZZBJUQ6AEIKzAA#v=onepage&q=Nassib Bundo and the Ogaden tribes&f=false

Are you seriously saying an ex-slave can't be a Sultan? The Brits and Zanzibar both disagreed.

For the last bloody time. Zanzibar in Mogadishu was only nominal. They claimed it but never ruled it since, in reality, it was actually under Gobroon rule. So what if they got defeated by Bimaal? They still had a long coast with plenty of ports which I have shown you maps and sources but you still choose to lie which I have previously refuted. It's getting really pathetic @Grant.

Again, if you learn Nassib Bundo history then I would've taken you seriously. He was an ex-slave that escaped and a Tunni Sheikh from Barawa took him and protected him. This Sheikh is known as Uways al-Barawi who helped establish a Geledi resistance in the Benadir coast against the Italians and the ex-slave told him that there were brave Gosha slaves willing to help the Geledi Sultanate to resist against the Italians all under the leadership of Sultan Osman Ahmed. I suggest you learn the making of Somalia and maybe you would've had more knowledge but since you have no clue what the hell you're talking about. It's best to stay silent.

 

[Grant]

For the last bloody time. Zanzibar in Mogadishu was only nominal. They claimed it but never ruled it since, in reality, it was actually under Gobroon rule. So what if they got defeated by Bimaal? They still had a long coast with plenty of ports which I have shown you maps and sources but you still choose to lie which I have previously refuted. It's getting really pathetic @Grant.

Again, if you learn Nassib Bundo history then I would've taken you seriously. He was an ex-slave that escaped and a Tunni Sheikh from Barawa took him and protected him. This Sheikh is known as Uways al-Barawi who helped establish a Geledi resistance in the Benadir coast against the Italians and the ex-slave told him that there were brave Gosha slaves willing to help the Geledi Sultanate to resist against the Italians all under the leadership of Sultan Osman Ahmed. I suggest you learn the making of Somalia and maybe you would've had more knowledge but since you have no clue what the hell you're talking about. It's best to stay silent.

Good advice for someone who still hasn't read Nassib Bundo's history.

 

[Factz]

Good advice for someone who still hasn't read Nassib Bundo's history.

Nasib Bundo was an ex-slave of Geledi Sultanate. That's a fact.

 

[Grant]

Nasib Bundo was an ex-slave of Geledi Sultanate. That's a fact.

Agreed. So?

 

[Factz]

Agreed. So?

 

[Grant]

:siilaanyosmile:

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/jubaland-and-its-inhabitants-by-f-elliot.35597/

 

[T1a]

Present day Somalis are historically mixed and so of course we are not fully native to the region. Although we do carry a substantial native component.

 

[Grant]

He desperately hopes that any other group than the ethnic Somali predate Somalis in Somalia.

First he tried to push the Nigeria-origin Madowweyne as pre-Somali inhabitants of Somalia, but since that became totally annihilated he is now trying to scrape the Bantu-mixed Boon as the next pre-Somalis.

Not so. The Gosha and Mujshunguli are Niger/Congo and I have ever said otherwise. It's the Gabaweyn, Shabelli, Makanne, Shidle, etc, that UN papers recognize as non-Bantu. The Ari and other Nilo-Saharan groups in northern Uganda and Ethiopia are Negroid of a different stock.

https://landofpunt.wordpress.com/2015/11/09/ancient-dna-from-ethiopia/

"Anthropologists and linguists working in the Ethiopian region have long observed a marked physical and linguistic cleavage between, on the one hand, the speakers of the Aroid Omotic languages, and on the other, the non-Aroid Afro-Asiatic-speaking populations. Harold C. Fleming, who coined the term “Omotic” and helped establish the validity of the phylum as an independent branch of the Afro-Asiatic family, remarks that the Ari are generally “Negroid” in physiognomy, in contrast to the “Ethiopid” northern Cushitic and Ethiosemitic groups:"

"The Ari peoples have been described extensively by scholars of the Frobenius tradition, especially A. Jensen, Eike Haberland, and others, as well as observed and described more informally by various anthropologists (e.g., Herbert Lewis, Jean Lydall, Ivo Strecker, myself) and Ethiopian government officials. One of our colleagues, Ayyalew Mitiku, is an Amhara who grew up among the Ari and speaks their language fluently. Among all these observers there is a consensus that the Ari and many of the Banna and Hamar represent a variety of African Negro, rather than an Ethiopid or “Afro-Mediterranean” variety. However, the Ari variety of Negro is distinctive and is not very much like the neighbouring Nilotic or Surmic peoples to the west and south; nor particularly like the Bantu of East Africa. Some resemblance is noted to the Koman of the Ethiopia-Sudan border areas and some Sudanese populations. Above all this aspect of the Ari, while it has earned them the label of “blacks” or “Shanqillas”, strikes many of us as being the appearance of a distinctive kind of African, a population that has evolved on its own to a considerable extent."

The Ari Blacksmiths have been in Ethiopia on the order of 11,000 years, so there is no reason to believe a Negroid Saharan population could not have reached Somalia. Mota man is essentially Ari.
The Eyle have a proven presence at Golgoshiis Qabe that also goes back 11,000 years.and we now know that they are khoisan.

 

[Apollo]

Not so. The Gosha and Mujshunguli are Niger/Congo and I have ever said otherwise. It's the Gabaweyn, Shabelli, Makanne, Shidle, etc, that UN papers recognize as non-Bantu. The Ari and other Nilo-Saharan groups in northern Uganda and Ethiopia are Negroid of a different stock.

They are Bantu.

Omotic genetics are not found in Somalia.

Somalia only has ethnic Somalis (Cushitic in origin), Bantus, and Somali-South Asian Mulatto Benadiris. That's it.

 

[MARAQ DIGAAG]

There is no argument, their language is Cushitic. It's the DNA that isn't. Nearly all the small hunter/gatherer groups that stayed in the north when the bulk of the Khoisan went south have shifted language.

There is a massive argument here because the presence of some hunter gatherer group DNA does not necessarily meah they are originally Khoisan . This could have been caused by intermingling since the region is home nearly every kind of Africa group .There would have to be substantial testing on the Boni left in Somalia and Kenya to determine their origin .

The study you posted is inconclusive on
The origins of the Boni .

The so-called ''Boon'' or Boni are not pure East African.. far from it actually

They are mixed with outsider Bantus:

42.9% E3a or E1b1a-M2

The Garreh or Garre who are isolated from other Kenyans have 0% of E-M2 while having high (over 70%) E1b1b1-M35

The Sanye, Wata, and Orma are all foreign admixed as well (Bantu E2b, Omotic E1b1a2-M329 etc).

See page 199, Appendix 6a, of that study.

The Boni became clients/serfs to the Bajuni Bantus , that’s probably where the Bantu DNA came from . The Oromos, then the Darood came to dominate them .

Eyle aren’t mentioned in the study .