The Capture of Jigjiga, September 24th

[ሕጊ።።]

because i feel like you think if this system goes away then millions of people are going to move to Tigray and make in not Tigryan anymore, which is insane!

Erm, well you’re feeling and assuming wrong then.

As for the argument of people don't want to go an non-ethnic state...the current system is as old as TPLF. I have sibling who remember the time before this system and their in their thirties.

The Derg, what a beautiful time to remember, the reason why the main Ethiopian diaspora exists. It was no better then.

***Gets on Soapbox***

As a young, and i assume, educated man please reflect on what it is you are trying to preserve. Look at the bigger picture. You are certainly a recipient and product of a country that has instituted laws to bridge differences between people in the west. Which is why you are there. You know if some is to make you feel unwelcome, you will go to the law and they would be on your side (even if your an immigrant). This did not happen by miarcle it happened because people fought for those changes even though others wanted to keep the status quo.

The reason i am keep asking to articulate your point is because i want to know if you have reasoned out all the things you're saying and not regurgitating what you have heard your dad and uncle talk about while sitting at Starbucks. I know not going to lie, it's hard not to fall in to complacency (probably the biggest epidemic disease in Africa) and just stick with what we know, but we won't get anywhere if we do.

Change is necessary!

btw I rarely get to talk to my peers about Ethiopian politics, so i enjoy our discussions, and no, we don't have to agree, but i will continue to challenge you on this. I hope next time you can better explain your personal position.

***Gets off Soapbox***

I don’t know what you are challenging me on, I merely brought uo Welkait as an example of a misunderstoond region.

 

[Lilafrombole]

Erm, well you’re feeling and assuming wrong then.

Then please enlighten me. I have yet to ascertain your reason for wanting the current system and please none of the "other people want the same thing" I want to hear YOUR reason!

The Derg, what a beautiful time to remember, the reason why the main Ethiopian diaspora exists. It was no better then.

I was not praising derg, i was simply indicating it not hard to imagine a non-ethinic federal state because they have not existed for very long. Sigh...but using genocidal regime to score a point....okay i will let that go.

I don’t know what you are challenging me on, I merely brought uo Welkait as an example of a misunderstoond region.

I am challenging you not to sound like every TPLF supporter i have come across. Please put away their talking points and tell me yours. It's okay to support them and criticize what you don't agree with. My challenge was for you to be an individual. I was NOT challenging on welkait because its not the bigger picture (even though i take issue with

Am(land thirsty)hara'

) i will also let that go.

 

[ሕጊ።።]

Then please enlighten me. I have yet to ascertain your reason for wanting the current system and please none of the "other people want the same thing" I want to hear YOUR reason!



I was not praising derg, i was simply indicating it not hard to imagine a non-ethinic federal state because they have not existed for very long. Sigh...but using genocidal regime to score a point....okay i will let that go.



I am challenging you not to sound like every TPLF supporter i have come across. Please put away their talking points and tell me yours. It's okay to support them and criticize what you don't agree with. My challenge was for you to be an individual. I was NOT challenging on welkait because its not the bigger picture (even though i take issue with ) i will also let that go.

I have given you the reasons already for wanting the system to stay as it is already, I am not repeating myself again.
Don’t tell me I am scoring a point with the Derg when my people suffered heavily from them and is the reason TPLF came about. Even the states back then were partly ethnic.

Nobody ever even brings up problems with the state system, a new one will make no difference whatsoever, face the reality. People have been moving about for milleniums.

 

[Menelik III]

False, nobody is considered a foreigner. Every region has minorities.
Lol my family are not from Welkait, just bored of reading people comment on a region they know nothing about. You must really think getting rid of ethnic states will turn Ethiopia into Japan overnight.

Concentrate on learning your mother tongue instead of what posts I’m liking, Mr ‘Menelik’.

I will in due time. I plan on going back to live and invest after gaining more experience in my field.

You’re also the one who brought welkait up, not me.

Then please enlighten me. I have yet to ascertain your reason for wanting the current system and please none of the "other people want the same thing" I want to hear YOUR reason!



I was not praising derg, i was simply indicating it not hard to imagine a non-ethinic federal state because they have not existed for very long. Sigh...but using genocidal regime to score a point....okay i will let that go.



I am challenging you not to sound like every TPLF supporter i have come across. Please put away their talking points and tell me yours. It's okay to support them and criticize what you don't agree with. My challenge was for you to be an individual. I was NOT challenging on welkait because its not the bigger picture (even though i take issue with ) i will also let that go.

He won’t give you a straight answer so I will. It’s more or less to do with Amhara (culture, language etc) domination. Many tigrayan grow up hearing this, which leads them to use Amhara as a scapegoat for all of the ills of Ethiopia. Many of them equate United Ethiopia with Amhara, so they are against it.
My abat used to tell me how during his days in the struggle, anti Amhara propaganda consisted of 90% of their meetings. They never really let it go.

 

[Lilafrombole]

I have given you the reasons already for wanting the system to stay as it is already, I am not repeating myself again.
Don’t tell me I am scoring a point with the Derg when my people suffered heavily from them and is the reason TPLF came about. Even the states back then were partly ethnic.

Nobody ever even brings up problems with the state system, a new one will make no difference whatsoever, face the reality. People have been moving about for milleniums.

Okay. how about this to @XamarCade saying

"Ethnic states is good because it keeps the land grabbing Oromos and dumpfield dwelling Amhaaras from encroaching other ppls land. I'm sure u wouldn't want these pests encroaching and claiming tigrey region."

You replied " Yes that's why ethnic states are good, and no I wouldn't want that.
Even though Am(land thirsty)hara's believe some parts of the Tigray region belong to them. I guess that's what happens when you have been in charge for 100's of years."

I tried to give you a chance to explain what you meant a few times, so there is no misunderstanding, but you didn't, so i am not going to ask you again. I know where you stand.

 

[Bernie Madoff]

Reading through this xabeshi thread like..

 

[GeKo]

Ethnic federalism is the legitimizing reason people are being killed in these so called "border" areas. Where people are not looking at each other like fellow citizens from different backgrounds but as invaders. That is why your tone strikes a cord with me because i feel like you think if this system goes away then millions of people are going to move to Tigray and make in not Tigryan anymore, which is insane!

As for the argument of people don't want to go an non-ethnic state...the current system is as old as TPLF. I have sibling who remember the time before this system and their in their thirties.

***Gets on Soapbox***

As a young, and i assume, educated man please reflect on what it is you are trying to preserve. Look at the bigger picture. You are certainly a recipient and product of a country that has instituted laws to bridge differences between people in the west. Which is why you are there. You know if some is to make you feel unwelcome, you will go to the law and they would be on your side (even if your an immigrant). This did not happen by miarcle it happened because people fought for those changes even though others wanted to keep the status quo.

The reason i am keep asking to articulate your point is because i want to know if you have reasoned out all the things you're saying and not regurgitating what you have heard your dad and uncle talk about while sitting at Starbucks. I know not going to lie, it's hard not to fall in to complacency (probably the biggest epidemic disease in Africa) and just stick with what we know, but we won't get anywhere if we do.

Change is necessary!

btw I rarely get to talk to my peers about Ethiopian politics, so i enjoy our discussions, and no, we don't have to agree, but i will continue to challenge you on this. I hope next time you can better explain your personal position.

***Gets off Soapbox***

I feel like Somalia is going through similar issues with our clan federalism. There are border disputes in almost all states and constant fighting going on. Some people also feel like, it'll cause more division and create an unwelcoming feeling when someone from a different clan lives in another region.

But I understand why, federalism and semi autonomy is necessary and I support it, because it gives the people of those regions the power to do things for themselves without waiting for the federal gov't to do things for them. Ethiopia before tplf and federalism had a majority of ethnic groups ignored and marginalized completely. Perhaps if there were ethnic states before, Eritrea would've still been apart of Ethiopia.
As an outsider observer, the TPLF regime has been the most accepting of muslims and allows for each state to preserve their culture and language. It has also been the first regime that has allowed development in the Somali regions in Ethiopia. I can see a stark difference in Jigjiga for example, universities, schools, hospitals, roads, businesses all seem to be growing there now.
From what I know, the amhara have always tried to impose their language, culture and not allow religious freedom in the country. Also completely marginalising most regions in Ethiopia.

Federalism in a stable country like Kenya though, I can see is working really well. People from each region represent their people as governors and its basically like Sim city. The best performing district last year was Wajir (A somali region that has barely had any development before).

 

[Lilafrombole]

I will in due time. I plan on going back to live and invest after gaining more experience in my field.

You’re also the one who brought welkait up, not me.

He won’t give you a straight answer so I will. It’s more or less to do with Amhara (culture, language etc) domination. Many tigrayan grow up hearing this, which leads them to use Amhara as a scapegoat for all of the ills of Ethiopia. Many of them equate United Ethiopia with Amhara, so they are against it.
My abat used to tell me how during his days in the struggle, anti Amhara propaganda consisted of 90% of their meetings. They never really let it go.

I know this is the case because i have tigrayan in law/family struggling to let go of their indoctrination. I didn't want to paint him in same brush (not knowing his background), which why i kept asking him to flush out his reasons. It's so disappointing when people our age fall in this pit.

 

[Menelik III]

I feel like Somalia is going through similar issues with our clan federalism. There are border disputes in almost all states and constant fighting going on. Some people also feel like, it'll cause more division and create an unwelcoming feeling when someone from a different clan lives in another region.

But I understand why, federalism and semi autonomy is necessary and I support it, because it gives the people of those regions the power to do things for themselves without waiting for the federal gov't to do things for them. Ethiopia before tplf and federalism had a majority of ethnic groups ignored and marginalized completely. Perhaps if there were ethnic states before, Eritrea would've still been apart of Ethiopia.
As an outsider observer, the TPLF regime has been the most accepting of muslims and allows for each state to preserve their culture and language. It has also been the first regime that has allowed development in the Somali regions in Ethiopia. I can see a stark difference in Jigjiga for example, universities, schools, hospitals, roads, businesses all seem to be growing there now.
From what I know, the amhara have always tried to impose their language, culture and not allow religious freedom in the country. Also completely marginalising most regions in Ethiopia.

Federalism in a stable country like Kenya though, I can see is working really well. People from each region represent their people as governors and its basically like Sim city. The best performing district last year was Wajir (A somali region that has barely had any development before).

Federalism is not the problem, it’s just the division and governance. There was no development in most parts of Ethiopia before this last decade. No one is against the development but at what price must it come...I just know that at the end of the day, if we don’t fix the problems now it will all be a waste.

 

[merka]

So this is what Habeshi fkd looks like

 

[Lilafrombole]

I feel like Somalia is going through similar issues with our clan federalism. There are border disputes in almost all states and constant fighting going on. Some people also feel like, it'll cause more division and create an unwelcoming feeling when someone from a different clan lives in another region.

But I understand why, federalism and semi autonomy is necessary and I support it, because it gives the people of those regions the power to do things for themselves without waiting for the federal gov't to do things for them. Ethiopia before tplf and federalism had a majority of ethnic groups ignored and marginalized completely. Perhaps if there were ethnic states before, Eritrea would've still been apart of Ethiopia.
As an outsider observer, the TPLF regime has been the most accepting of muslims and allows for each state to preserve their culture and language. It has also been the first regime that has allowed development in the Somali regions in Ethiopia. I can see a stark difference in Jigjiga for example, universities, schools, hospitals, roads, businesses all seem to be growing there now.
From what I know, the amhara have always tried to impose their language, culture and not allow religious freedom in the country. Also completely marginalising most regions in Ethiopia.

Federalism in a stable country like Kenya though, I can see is working really well. People from each region represent their people as governors and its basically like Sim city. The best performing district last year was Wajir (A somali region that has barely had any development before).

I understand what you're saying. I was not saying there is a system where everyone lives happily with no complaint but i was stating the current system is pushing people to a brink of war. If the purpose of the system was to celebrate our difference while living cohesive then it's not working. The government then has the responsibility to pivot, so it can accommodate the new challenges rising within that system. Every successful country has done this. Stubbornly saying there no reason for change because it won't make a difference is a cop-out and we don't need these people leading our countries.

 

[GeKo]

Federalism is not the problem, it’s just the division and governance. There was no development in most parts of Ethiopia before this last decade. No one is against the development but at what price must it come...I just know that at the end of the day, if we don’t fix the problems now it will all be a waste.

I understand what you're saying. I was not saying there is a system where everyone lives happily with no complaint but i was stating the current system is pushing people to a brink of war. If the purpose of the system was to celebrate our difference while living cohesive then it's not working. The government then has the responsibility to pivot, so it can accommodate the new challenges rising within that system. Every successful country has done this. Stubbornly saying there no reason for change because it won't make a difference is a cop-out and we don't need these people leading our countries.

I believe the fighting going on now between states have all been premeditated and are orders from the tplf. They want constant conflicts between ethnic groups so as to distract the people away from themselves. The oromo and amhara that were protesting the gov't have now faced their attention to neighboring regions. The tplf wouldn't last long if there was real democracy and freedom, they know if they open up they'll lose power.
Ethiopia's full potential will only be reached when they stop the oppression and give the people their freedom and democracy. Even just giving internet to the people would cause this regime to be overthrown.

The government then has the responsibility to pivot, so it can accommodate the new challenges rising within that system. Every successful country has done this. Stubbornly saying there no reason for change because it won't make a difference is a cop-out and we don't need these people leading our countries.

I agree, a lot of changes have to be made for Ethiopia to stay united because a civil war would happen. But those changes shouldn't include doing away with federalism but instead improving on the current system. The real issue's are arising because tplf are there by force and they know that, they don't want to relinquish power.

 

[ሕጊ።።]

Okay. how about this to @XamarCade saying

"Ethnic states is good because it keeps the land grabbing Oromos and dumpfield dwelling Amhaaras from encroaching other ppls land. I'm sure u wouldn't want these pests encroaching and claiming tigrey region."

You replied " Yes that's why ethnic states are good, and no I wouldn't want that.
Even though Am(land thirsty)hara's believe some parts of the Tigray region belong to them. I guess that's what happens when you have been in charge for 100's of years."

I tried to give you a chance to explain what you meant a few times, so there is no misunderstanding, but you didn't, so i am not going to ask you again. I know where you stand.

Well who want’s their region to turn into 90%+ of another ethnic groups?

 

[ሕጊ።።]

I will in due time. I plan on going back to live and invest after gaining more experience in my field.

You’re also the one who brought welkait up, not me.

He won’t give you a straight answer so I will. It’s more or less to do with Amhara (culture, language etc) domination. Many tigrayan grow up hearing this, which leads them to use Amhara as a scapegoat for all of the ills of Ethiopia. Many of them equate United Ethiopia with Amhara, so they are against it.
My abat used to tell me how during his days in the struggle, anti Amhara propaganda consisted of 90% of their meetings. They never really let it go.

‘Hearing this’. It was true, not a rumour.

Don’t assume that just because the TPLF is in existence, it wipes out all the mistakes in the past commited by others.