The Donald made a big mistake

[Galaeri]

How did whoring ourselves out to the Soviet union help us before???

Let's just try to stop killing eachother first and become unified. Once Somalis have love for their fellow Somali and their country, we won't need the so called "help" of either China or the USA. Additionally do you really think these foreigners are going to be of any benefit to us. It's a dog eat dog world out there. Which ever side you want us to align with, will only use us and ordinary Somalis won't see any benefits.

The only way Somalis can gain strenght is if we have an open dialogue between all factions of Somalis. An apology to all victims of Siad Barre like those in North Somalia. Proper power sharing between all Somalis and eradication of qabil. Then we won't need USA or China.

Making friends with the Soviets was political masterclass. It helped us so much as a nation, enough that we were powerful enough to destroy the lion of Africa. Don't see why you call it whoring, there was an obvious mutual benefit otherwise they would have not helped us the way they did.

We need help from foreigners regardless, and help from the Chinese would be ideal. They are real businessmen, they are nothing like colonisers. If you make a deal with them they wont rek you in some mischievous way.

If there is ever to be any real reconciliation it will require all tribes that partook in the civil war to admit to their crimes. This includes what has taken place in Mogadishu 91-93, what happened in Baidoa (yr??), and Sool in 91. There are very few parties that are truly innocent, almost all tribes have something to account for. It has already accepted that the 1988 bombings were an atrocity, I don't know how an apology on the behalf of a dead man or his administration can really help the situation.

 

[Adheer Warsame]

help from the Chinese would be ideal. They are real businessmen, they are nothing like colonisers. If you make a deal with them they wont rek you in some mischievous way.

Chinese are very mischievous people. We've already talked about how they claim land to themselves when they have something going for them. Ethiopia and Kenya will be rely with debt in the future with all the infrastructure Chinese built for them, so will other countries like Mozambique and Zimbabwe.

 

[Galaeri]

Chinese are very mischievous people. We've already talked about how they claim land to themselves when they have something going for them. Ethiopia and Kenya will be rely with debt in the future with all the infrastructure Chinese built for them, so will other countries like Mozambique and Zimbabwe.

They are not. They haven't fucked anybody yet. I haven't heard of any instance where they ruined a country like Shell has ruined Nigeria, or Glencore has ruined Zambia. I haven't even heard anything bad about them yet. They are clean businessmen, they are nothing like the Americans and Europeans.

 

[Asma]

Making friends with the Soviets was political masterclass. It helped us so much as a nation, enough that we were powerful enough to destroy the lion of Africa. Don't see why you call it whoring, there was an obvious mutual benefit otherwise they would have not helped us the way they did.

We need help from foreigners regardless, and help from the Chinese would be ideal. They are real businessmen, they are nothing like colonisers. If you make a deal with them they wont rek you in some mischievous way.

If there is ever to be any real reconciliation it will require all tribes that partook in the civil war to admit to their crimes. This includes what has taken place in Mogadishu 91-93, what happened in Baidoa (yr??), and Sool in 91. There are very few parties that are truly innocent, almost all tribes have something to account for. It has already accepted that the 1988 bombings were an atrocity, I don't know how an apology on the behalf of a dead man or his administration can really help the situation.

Im not talking about business deals. Of course we should make deals with other countries. What I'm talking about is trying to act like a satellite nation for USA and to play USA and China against each other, we need to stay out of it and focus on ourselves.

The Soviets might've given us a few weapons but in the long run, what did becoming Soviet satellite nation do for Somalia? Like I said before both the Russians and Americans are fine but look at the state of Somalia.

All of Somalis are guilty of committing crimes against each other. However the reason I mentioned North Somalia is because lets be honest they were the only ones where government fighter pilots bombed them, for that they do deserve an apology and some compensation. Nationalist cannot one the hand tell Northern Somalis we are brothers and please don't seccede and on the other hand pretend like the previous government was completely innocent and tell them to stfu about it.

In the end I believe a united Somalia is a strong Somalia. If northern Somalis want rightly so an official apology it really is a small price to pay so that we can just put the past behind us and finally move on as one nation.

 

[ace mooha]

Im not talking about business deals. Of course we should make deals with other countries. What I'm talking about is trying to act like a satellite nation for USA and to play USA and China against each other, we need to stay out of it and focus on ourselves.

The Soviets might've given us a few weapons but in the long run, what did becoming Soviet satellite nation do for Somalia? Like I said before both the Russians and Americans are fine but look at the state of Somalia.

All of Somalis are guilty of committing crimes against each other. However the reason I mentioned North Somalia is because lets be honest they were the only ones where government fighter pilots bombed them, for that they do deserve an apology and some compensation. Nationalist cannot one the hand tell Northern Somalis we are brothers and please don't seccede and on the other hand pretend like the previous government was completely innocent and tell them to stfu about it.

In the end I believe a united Somalia is a strong Somalia. If northern Somalis want rightly so an official apology it really is a small price to pay so that we can just put the past behind us and finally move on as one nation.

Waryaa

I like this girl...
She's smart

 

[Galaeri]

Im not talking about business deals. Of course we should make deals with other countries. What I'm talking about is trying to act like a satellite nation for USA and to play USA and China against each other, we need to stay out of it and focus on ourselves.

The Soviets might've given us a few weapons but in the long run, what did becoming Soviet satellite nation do for Somalia? Like I said before both the Russians and Americans are fine but look at the state of Somalia.

All of Somalis are guilty of committing crimes against each other. However the reason I mentioned North Somalia is because lets be honest they were the only ones where government fighter pilots bombed them, for that they do deserve an apology and some compensation. Nationalist cannot one the hand tell Northern Somalis we are brothers and please don't seccede and on the other hand pretend like the previous government was completely innocent and tell them to stfu about it.

In the end I believe a united Somalia is a strong Somalia. If northern Somalis want rightly so an official apology it really is a small price to pay so that we can just put the past behind us and finally move on as one nation.

As I was saying before, there is nobody that is truly innocent. When Ethiopia and Somalia agreed to support guerrillas since they were both going through crises, the SNM attacked 3 cities in a desperate attempt to survive (Hoehne 2011, p159-160). The 1988 bombing occured once the SNM had captured these 3 cities, a campaign that lasted no longer than 2 months. The casualties were several thousand and were mostly Isaaq civillians, not this 50k-400k nonsense. If there is an apology to be given this has to be acknowledged by Reer Somaliland. They have been trying to erase this from the history, they do no talk about it. If they ignore this crucial information it helps their case for independence. I am not suggesting that this was acceptable, I am providing the necessary context. Barre bombed parts of the city to flush out an Ethiopian funded and equipped guerilla that was trying to destabilise his nation by cutting out a large portion of the territory. I have a granduncle that was murdered by the SNM in 88 when they were taking the city. There were many military men that were killed in 88 so the SNM could take control. I am looking for a historical resource that cites that, I hope it hasn't been overlooked or forgotten. Once again, nobody is truly innocent.

I don't see why you give special focus to this bombing in particular. Barre had persecuted the Cumar Maxmuuds simply because many of their high ranking military men almost pulled off a coup on him. He had his army attack their villages and kill and loot their livestock because a few dozen men challenged him. Do they deserve an apology and compensation? And who will compensate them?


This is the book. I can send it to you guys if you can't find it. I believe it's free.
Political Orientations and Repertoires of Identification: State and Identity Formation in Northern Somalia
Markus Hoehne

 

[Asma]

As I was saying before, there is nobody that is truly innocent. When Ethiopia and Somalia agreed to support guerrillas since they were both going through crises, the SNM attacked 3 cities in a desperate attempt to survive (Hoehne 2011, p159-160). The 1988 bombing occured once the SNM had captured these 3 cities, a campaign that lasted no longer than 2 months. The casualties were several thousand and were mostly Isaaq civillians, not this 50k-400k nonsense. If there is an apology to be given this has to be acknowledged by Reer Somaliland. They have been trying to erase this from the history, they do no talk about it. If they ignore this crucial information it helps their case for independence. I am not suggesting that this was acceptable, I am providing the necessary context. Barre bombed parts of the city to flush out an Ethiopian funded and equipped guerilla that was trying to destabilise his nation by cutting out a large portion of the territory. I have a granduncle that was murdered by the SNM in 88 when they were taking the city. There were many military men that were killed in 88 so the SNM could take control. I am looking for a historical resource that cites that, I hope it hasn't been overlooked or forgotten. Once again, nobody is truly innocent.

I don't see why you give special focus to this bombing in particular. Barre had persecuted the Cumar Maxmuuds simply because many of their high ranking military men almost pulled off a coup on him. He had his army attack their villages and kill and loot their livestock because a few dozen men challenged him. Do they deserve an apology and compensation? And who will compensate them?


This is the book. I can send it to you guys if you can't find it. I believe it's free.
Political Orientations and Repertoires of Identification: State and Identity Formation in Northern Somalia
Markus Hoehne

Like I previously said all Somalis committed atrocious against each other. The reason I mention the air bombing is because you have to acknowledge that being air bombed by your own government is an extra extreme step. Another reason why I mention that particular incident is because northern Somalis are very adamant about secceding and one of the reason they are so for it is because of that bombing. Therefore its no skin of my nose to issue an offical apology and some compensation just so that we can placade them and bring them into the fold. Also another thing for a full reconciliation to happen a Northen Somali person should be given a very high position in the government so that we can move on and put the past behind us.

 

[Galaeri]

Like I previously said all Somalis committed atrocious against each other. The reason I mention the air bombing is because you have to acknowledge that being air bombed by your own government is an extra extreme step. Another reason why I mention that particular incident is because northern Somalis are very adamant about secceding and one of the reason they are so for it is because of that bombing. Therefore its no skin of my nose to issue an offical apology and some compensation just so that we can placade them and bring them into the fold. Also another thing for a full reconciliation to happen a Northen Somali person should be given a very high position in the government so that we can move on and put the past behind us.

The decision for independence was not help by all Isaaqs in the administration in 1991. Many were against it. It was the SNM who took power that forced them to take this independence route.

Barre did not target Isaaks specifically. He bombed the city and the civilians payed the price. That is not genocide, it is an atrocity. If there is any group that was treated in an extreme way it was the Cumar Mahmuud civilians that were targeted specifically by his army.

What I am trying to say is you are suggesting that Barre actions were worse than they were.

I admit that if there is any real reconciliation this has to be acknowledged.

 

[merka]

The decision for independence was not help by all Isaaqs in the administration in 1991. Many were against it. It was the SNM who took power that forced them to take this independence route.

Bullshit. It was the SNM that did not want independence, the people were the ones that forced them to go the independence route.

Barre did not target Isaaks specifically. He bombed the city and the civilians payed the price. That is not genocide, it is an atrocity. If there is any group that was treated in an extreme way it was the Cumar Mahmuud civilians that were targeted specifically by his army.

Barre regime did not target Isaaqs directly?!?! The Hargeisa bombings weren't the only atrocities that happened. There are mass graves all over Somaliland where innocent civilians were tortured and executed by Somali govt soldiers.

There's videos and photos online of soldiers torturing and killing innocent civilians, even burning some of them alive!

Hargeisa and Burco were completely destroyed by Barre's military, they were ghost towns after the bombings. 360,000 civilians fled to refugee camps in Ethiopia.

What the regime did to Cumar Mahmud civilians was a horrible atrocity but it was no where near the same as what they did to Isaaqs.

What I am trying to say is you are suggesting that Barre actions were worse than they were.

I admit that if there is any real reconciliation this has to be acknowledged.

What the Barre regime did was textbook genocide. No amount of your whitewashing of history can deny that.

 

[Mudug-Madman]

Barre did not target Isaaks specifically. He bombed the city and the civilians payed the price. That is not genocide, it is an atrocity. If there is any group that was treated in an extreme way it was the Cumar Mahmuud civilians that were targeted specifically by his army.

Really at this point it would be better to respect what Soomalilanders have to say on this matter. To me unification is too important to argue over petty shit like this. It's clear Issaqs suffered greatly and f*ck ton of messed up shit happened. If we really view them as our brothers we have to acknowledge and respect their feelings on the matter.

 

[Asma]

Really at this point it would be better to respect what Soomalilanders have to say on this matter. To me unification is too important to argue over petty shit like this. It's clear Issaqs suffered greatly and f*ck ton of messed up shit happened. If we really view them as our brothers we have to acknowledge and respect their feelings on the matter.

Exactly....thank you

What's the point of arguing about it. If they want some acknowledgment of past atrocities and an apology then they deserve to be heard and let's just give them that and draw a line under the sand so we can finally move on.