The land of Punt was a Somali kingdom

[Canuck]

It does not matter we all are Somalis, noinvaders between us all these tribes had intermarriage for centuries we are one ethnic group. Like or not we are one.

 

[AceofSom]

Somali, yes. Samaale, no. They are the natives, not the invaders.

I am surprise, you seem to be everywhere, were Somali history is discussed and as usual you run your mouth without knowing anything about Somali history, other then couple of articles from Wikipedia or that you lived in jamame in the 60's. But what I would like to know is who pays you to disseminate this misinformation?

 

[Grant]

I am surprise, you seem to be everywhere, were Somali history is discussed and as usual you run your mouth without knowing anything about Somali history, other then couple of articles from Wikipedia or that you lived in jamame in the 60's. But what I would like to know is who pays you to disseminate this misinformation?

I have never said I lived in Jamaame. I lived and taught in Jilib.

My mouth runs with what is academically postulated or accepted. I suggest you read this article in it's entirety:

http://countrystudies.us/somalia/3.htm

"...where historians once believed that the Somalis originated on the Red Sea's western coast, or perhaps in southern Arabia, it now seems clear that the ancestral homeland of the Somalis, together with affiliated Cushite peoples, was in the highlands of southern Ethiopia, specifically in the lake regions. Similarly, the once-common notion that the migration and settlement of early Muslim followers of the Prophet Muhammad on the Somali coast in the early centuries of Islam had a significant impact on the Somalis no longer enjoys much academic support. Scholars now recognize that the Arab factor--except for the Somalis' conversion to Islam--is marginal to understanding the Somali past. Furthermore, conventional wisdom once held that Somali migrations followed a north-to-south route; the reverse of this now appears to be nearer the truth."

I am retired and self-supporting. I research my positions, and so should you.

 

[Grant]

It does not matter we all are Somalis, noinvaders between us all these tribes had intermarriage for centuries we are one ethnic group. Like or not we are one.

Sadly, the studies do not support this position.

http://reliefweb.int/report/somalia/study-minorities-somalia

"Until recently, many people perceived Somalia as a country with a population of 7,000,0000 people who share one culture, one language and one religion. This was the impression given during previous regimes in order to sustain the illusion of homogeneity. One of the things that were deliberately downplayed was the existence of minority groups. Although the population of minority groups living in Somalia has not as yet been established, estimates indicate that they constitute one third of the total Somalia population; approximately 2,000,000 people. The minority groups include Bantu, Bravenese, Rerhamar, Bajuni, Eyle, Galgala, Tumal, Yibir and Gaboye. These groups continue to live in conditions of great poverty and suffer numerous forms of discrimination and exclusion."

It's a lengthy study, with details.

 

[Hafez]

Sadly, the studies do not support this position.

http://reliefweb.int/report/somalia/study-minorities-somalia

"Until recently, many people perceived Somalia as a country with a population of 7,000,0000 people who share one culture, one language and one religion. This was the impression given during previous regimes in order to sustain the illusion of homogeneity. One of the things that were deliberately downplayed was the existence of minority groups. Although the population of minority groups living in Somalia has not as yet been established, estimates indicate that they constitute one third of the total Somalia population; approximately 2,000,000 people. The minority groups include Bantu, Bravenese, Rerhamar, Bajuni, Eyle, Galgala, Tumal, Yibir and Gaboye. These groups continue to live in conditions of great poverty and suffer numerous forms of discrimination and exclusion."

It's a lengthy study, with details.

There are not significant numbers of Reer Xamar and Barawa in Somalia. Estimates suggests that they number no more than 3000-4000. Most have migrated to neighbouring countries, Arabia and Western countries. Over 90% of reer Xamar and Barawa left Mogadishu all together.

Btw I'm from one of the Reer Xamar minority clans.

 

[AceofSom]

I have never said I lived in Jamaame. I lived and taught in Jilib.

My mouth runs with what is academically postulated or accepted. I suggest you read this article in it's entirety:

http://countrystudies.us/somalia/3.htm

"...where historians once believed that the Somalis originated on the Red Sea's western coast, or perhaps in southern Arabia, it now seems clear that the ancestral homeland of the Somalis, together with affiliated Cushite peoples, was in the highlands of southern Ethiopia, specifically in the lake regions. Similarly, the once-common notion that the migration and settlement of early Muslim followers of the Prophet Muhammad on the Somali coast in the early centuries of Islam had a significant impact on the Somalis no longer enjoys much academic support. Scholars now recognize that the Arab factor--except for the Somalis' conversion to Islam--is marginal to understanding the Somali past. Furthermore, conventional wisdom once held that Somali migrations followed a north-to-south route; the reverse of this now appears to be nearer the truth."

I am retired and self-supporting. I research my positions, and so should you.

Well i think you need to find a new hobby. As a professional Analyst, one thing i can pick up is mis information. Careful analysis of you posts show that you only reply to threads about Somali history and some times qabil. Which begs the question, why would a white man be interested in propgation mis infornation other then for a motive.

Secondly, why would someone who is interested in Somalia history use wikipedia as their main source other then to cause misinformation. It echos of the days where colonists would write the history and mix lies with a bit of thruth. Those days are over and somalis have woken up to write their own history, and you are not needed.

 

[Grant]

The beauty of Wikipedia is that it is current. It's the references that validate the article. My careful analysis notes that you didn't read the last two links, which were not Wiki, either; so yours is a poorly formed complaint. Have you read Samatar and Eno. How about the Madhibaan and Midgan websites. What do you know about Nasib Bundo?

Are you one of those who still believes his abtirsi is headed by some Arab dude? Do you really believe the Somalis are homogeneous, speak the same language, etc. If so, I have a lot more information you will hate....

 

[Bahal]

The Somalis are homogenous and speak a single language.

 

[Grant]

There are 13 languages spoken in Somalia. Note the dialects of "Standard" Somali.
http://www.christusrex.org/www3/ethno/Soma.html

ARABIC, STANDARD [ABV] Middle East, North Africa. Afro-Asiatic, Semitic, Central, South, Arabic. Most Somalis have very limited or no ability in Arabic. Not used as a medium of communication by the government. National language. Braille Scripture in progress. Bible 1984-1991. NT 1980-1982. Bible portions 1984.

BONI (AWEERA, AWEER, WAATA, SANYE) [BOB] 5,000 in all countries (1980); few, if any, in Somalia (1991); 3,500 in Kenya (1994). Afro-Asiatic, Cushitic, East, Rendille-Boni. Reported to be linguistically close to Garre of Somalia, but not close in appearance or culture. Hunters. Muslim.

BOON (AF-BOON) [BNL] Speakers are over 60 years old (1986 M. Lamberti). Jilib District, Middle Jubba Region, scattered in the bush and live in settlements of 2 or 3 houses with their closest relatives. Afro-Asiatic, Cushitic, East, Unclassified. There are similarities to Somali. Not the same as Boni. In recent decades they have shifted to the Maay dialect of Jilib. Hunter-gatherers, leather workers. Nearly extinct.

DABARRE (AF-DABARRE) [DBR] 20,000 to 50,000 (1992). Spoken by the Dabarre clan around Dhiinsoor District, May Region, and the Iroole Clan in nearby Baraawe District, Lower Shabeelle Region, and in Qansax Dheere. Afro-Asiatic, Cushitic, East, Somali. Dialects: DABARRE, IROOLE (AF-IROOLE). A very distinctive language in the Digil clan family. Muslim. Survey needed.

ENGLISH [ENG] 322,000,000 in all countries (1995 WA). Indo-European, Germanic, West, North Sea, English. Used more in the north. National language. Bible 1535-1989. NT 1525-1985. Bible portions 1530-1987.

GARRE (AF-GARRE) [GEX] 50,000 or more (1992); perhaps several hundred thousand in the ethnic group. Dominate areas of southern Somalia, especially in the Wanle Weyn-Buur Hakaba area; Baydhaba, Dhiinsoor, Buurhakaba, and Qoryooley districts; Middle and Lower Shabeelle and Bay regions. Afro-Asiatic, Cushitic, East, Somali. Part of the Hawiye clan family. They consider themselves to be one people with the Garreh in Kenya, although they now speak different languages. Some ethnic Garre in Somalia speak Maay as mother tongue. Reported to be linguistically close to Boni. Muslim. Survey needed.

JIIDDU (JIDDU, AF-JIIDDU) [JII] 20,000 to 60,000 (1992). Lower Shabeelle Bay and Middle Jubba regions, Qoryooley, Dhiinsoor, Jilib, and Buurhakaba districts. Afro-Asiatic, Cushitic, East, Somali. A distinct language from Somali and Tunni, usually grouped under the Digil dialects or languages. Different sentence structure and phonology from Somali. Closer to Somali than to Baiso. Spoken by the Jiiddu clan. Ethnic Jiiddu in Bale Province, Ethiopia speak Oromo as mother tongue. Some similarities to Konsoid languages, and to Gedeo, Alaba, Hadiyya, and Kambaata. Muslim. Survey needed.

MAAY (AF-MAAY TIRI, AF-MAAY, AF-MAY, AF-MAYMAY, RAHANWEEN, RAHANWEYN) [QMA] 500,000 to 1,000,000 (1992); 700,000 to 1,500,000 including the Digil dialects or languages. Southern Somalia, Gedo Region, Middle and Lower Shabeelle, Middle and Lower Jubba, Baay, and Bakool regions. Afro-Asiatic, Cushitic, East, Somali. Dialect: AF-HELLEDI. It may be more than one language; the dialects form a continuum Standard Somali is difficult or unintelligible to Maay speakers, except for those who have learned it through mass communications, urbanization, and internal movement. They tend to not travel much. Different sentence structure and phonology from Somali. The Rahanwiin (Rahanweyn) clan confederacy speak various Maay dialects or languages. Af-Helledi is a Maay secret language used by hunters. Used by the Tunni, Jiiddu, Garre and Dabarre as second language. Muslim.

MUSHUNGULU (KIMUSHUNGULU, MUSHUNGULI) [XMA] 20,000 to 50,000 (1992). Southern Somalia, Jamaame District of Lower Jubba Region, centered in Jamaame District, and some in urban areas in nearby Kismaayo and in Muqdisho. Niger-Congo, Atlantic-Congo, Volta-Congo, Benue-Congo, Bantoid, Southern, Narrow Bantu, Central, G, Zigula-Zaramo (G.30). They do not mingle with other peoples of Somalia, so the women do not learn Somali. The men learn Maay or Somali as second language. Descended from fugitive slaves who escaped from their Somali masters in the Middle Shabeelle region around 1840. In northeast Tanzania, they were called 'WaZegua' (see Zigula). May be the same as, or intelligible with, Zigula or Shambaa. Agriculturalists. Muslim, traditional religion. Survey needed.

OROMO, BORANA-ARSI-GUJI (SOUTHERN OROMO) [GAX] 3,809,000 or more in all countries; 3,657,000 in Ethiopia; 152,000 in Kenya (1994). Gedo Region. Afro-Asiatic, Cushitic, East, Oromo. Dialect: BORANA (BOORAN, BORAN). The Oromo variety in Gedo is probably Borana; that in the Lower Jubba Region is probably Orma. Muslim. Bible 1995. NT 1875-1979. Bible portions 1870-1966.

SOMALI (AF-SOOMAALI, AF-MAXAAD TIRI, COMMON SOMALI, STANDARD SOMALI) [SOM] 5,400,000 to 6,700,000 in Somalia (1991); 2,050,000 in Ethiopia (1993); 312,339 in Kenya (1989); 181,420 in Djibouti (1996); 290,000 in Yemen (1993); 100,000 in United Arab Emirates (1993); 1,300 in Finland; 8,335,000 in all countries. Also in Saudi Arabia, Italy, Sweden, United Kingdom. Afro-Asiatic, Cushitic, East, Somali. Dialects: NORTHERN SOMALI, BENAADIR, AF-ASHRAAF (ASHRAAF). The language of most of the people of the country. Northern Somali is the basis for Standard Somali. It is readily intelligible by speakers of Benaadir Somali, but difficult or unintelligible to Maay and Digil speakers, except for those who have learned it through mass communications, urbanization, and internal movement. The Rahanwiin (Rahanweyn) are a large clan confederacy in southern Somalia, speaking various Maay dialects or languages (Central Somali). The Digil are a clan confederacy speaking Central Somali varieties. Daarood is a large clan family in northeast Somalia and the Ogaadeen region of Ethiopia, extreme southern Somalia and northeast Kenya which speaks several different dialects. Dir is a clan family with various clans in Djibouti, Ethiopia, throughout Somalia and northeast Kenya. The Gadabuursi are a section of the Dir living in northwest Somalia and adjoining parts of Djibouti and Ethiopia, and speaking Northern Common Somali. The Isxaaq are a major clan grouping in northest Somalia, some in Djibouti and Ethiopia, speaking Northern Common Somali. The Hawiye are a major clan family living in central southern Somalia, parts of Ethiopia, and extreme northeast Kenya. Hawiye northern clans (Habar Gidir) speak a dialect of Common Somali similar to the adjacent Daarood clans, while Hawiye southern clans (especially Abgaal and Gaaljaal) speak the Benaadir dialect of Common Somali. Ogaadeen is the largest clan within the Daarood clan family, living in eastern Ethiopia, extreme southern Somalia and northeast Kenya, speaking various forms of Northern Common Somali. 'Sab' is an ambiguous term used by some scholars to refer to various lower caste clans. 'Medibaan' is a low caste clan within the Hawiye. 'Benaadir' as an ethnic group refers to the residents of the coastal cities. Those in Merka and Muqdisho who speak Af-Ashraaf, a distinct variety which may have limited inherent intelligibility with Standard Somali. (Most of these fled to Kenya because of the current fighting.) Standard Somali is used in primary education. The government adopted the Roman script in 1972. The Osmania script is no longer used. 25% literacy in cities, 10% in rural areas. Grammar, dictionary. National language. Pastoralists; agriculturalists: sugar, bananas, sorghum, corn, gum, incense; miners: iron, tin, gypsum, bauxite, uranium. Muslim, Christian. Bible 1979. NT 1972-1976. Bible portions 1915-1935.

SWAHILI [SWA] 40,000 Baraawe in Somalia (1992); 5,000,000 total first language speakers (1989 Holm); 30,000,000 total second language speakers (1989 Holm). The Mwini live in Baraawe (Brava), Lower Shabeelle, and were scattered in cities and towns of southern Somalia. Most have fled to Kenya because of the civil war. The Bajun live in Kismaayo District and the neighboring coast. Also in Tanzania, Kenya, Uganda, Mayotte, South Africa, Mozambique, Oman, UAE, and USA. Niger-Congo, Atlantic-Congo, Volta-Congo, Benue-Congo, Bantoid, Southern, Narrow Bantu, Central, G, Swahili (G.40). Dialects: MWINI (MWIINI, CHIMWIINI, AF-CHIMWIINI, BARWAANI, BRAVANESE), BAJUNI (KIBAJUNI, BAJUN, AF-BAJUUN, MBALAZI, CHIMBALAZI). Reported to have come centuries ago from Zanzibar. Mwini: artisans (leather goods); Bajun: fishermen. Bible 1891-1996. NT 1879-1989. Bible portions 1868-1968.

TUNNI (AF-TUNNI) [TQQ] 20,000 to 60,000 (1992). Lower Shabeelle and Middle Jubba regions, Dhiinsoor, Baraawe, and Jilib districts. Afro-Asiatic, Cushitic, East, Somali. A distinct language from Somali or Jiiddu, usually grouped under the Digil dialects or languages. Different sentence structure and phonology from Somali. Maay language influences. Nomadic. Pastoralists: cattle, sheep, goats. Muslim. Survey needed.

 

[Apollo]

Only Standard Somali and Af-Maay are the real two languages of Somalia. They are highly intelligible.

The rest are a bunch of useless village dialects. Barely languages at all.

 

[Hafez]

The beauty of Wikipedia is that it is current. It's the references that validate the article. My careful analysis notes that you didn't read the last two links, which were not Wiki, either; so yours is a poorly formed complaint. Have you read Samatar and Eno. How about the Madhibaan and Midgan websites. What do you know about Nasib Bundo?

Are you one of those who still believes his abtirsi is headed by some Arab dude? Do you really believe the Somalis are homogeneous, speak the same language, etc. If so, I have a lot more information you will hate....

Somalis are homogeneous for the most part lol. This is coming from someone who isn't an ethnic Somali.

The Tumal, Yibir, Reer Xamar, etc. are very insignificant in numbers. Bantus are thought to be over 900,000 and these are just estimates. No way do the minorities make up 1/3 of Somalis LMFAO.

 

[Grant]

Only Standard Somali and Af-Maay are the real two languages of Somalia. They are highly intelligible.

The rest are a bunch of useless village dialects. Barely languages at all.

I assume you are either from the North or are part of the elite who promote these ideas for political reasons.. Probably some of the numerous shegatos feel secure enough to voice the same opinions, but Mohamed Eno and others from the South think differently.

http://www.academia.edu/1221451/Def...lia_Perspectives_from_the_Southern_Minorities

https://www.bookdepository.com/author/Mohamed-Eno

 

[Grant]

Somalis are homogeneous for the most part lol. This is coming from someone who isn't an ethnic Somali.

The Tumal, Yibir, Reer Xamar, etc. are very insignificant in numbers. Bantus are thought to be over 900,000 and these are just estimates. No way do the minorities make up 1/3 of Somalis LMFAO.

http://reliefweb.int/report/somalia/study-minorities-somalia

"Most of the minority groups have assimilated into other Somalia clans with whom they live. For example, the Galgala have assimilated into the Abgal in Jowhar and Mogadishu. However, they identify themselves as Nuh Mohamud, a sub clan of the Majerten clan. Some Gaboye, Tumal and Yibir assimilated into the Isak in Somaliland, while others yet have assimilated into the Darod in Puntland and central regions. There are also other Gaboye, Tumal and Yibir who assimilated with Hawadle, Murasade and Marehan clans in Galgadud region.

With the exception of the Bantu, Rerhamar, Bravanese, Bajuni and Eyle who have distinct "non-Somali" physical appearance, all other minorities have physical appearances similar to that of the dominant clans, as well as having ethnic and cultural similarities. What distinguish the assimilated minorities are their distinct economic livelihoods."

My understanding is that a recent estimate, done by counting settlements from the air, places the Oromo and Madow just in the Juba valley at over a million. Add those in the camps in Kenya. I don't know that it is a third of all Somalis, but I do believe the Minorities could add up to two million.

 

[Canuck]

I assume you are either from the North or are part of the elite who promote these ideas for political reasons.. Probably some of the numerous shegatos feel secure enough to voice the same opinions, but Mohamed Eno and others from the South think differently.

http://www.academia.edu/1221451/Def...lia_Perspectives_from_the_Southern_Minorities

https://www.bookdepository.com/author/Mohamed-Eno

Hmm Mohamed Eno team, I should know you earlier. Grant is Bantu student of Mohamed Eno. Their idea is "
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. " by Joseph Goebbels.

 

[Canuck]

Look fellow Somalis how the Bantu and Oromo are helping each other in changing our history. Open your eyes fellow Somalis it is not theory but conspiracy. @Barni @barwaqo @Baraf @Bahal @VicePrez @Khathead

 

[Grant]

Funny you should mention that!

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/803985.The_Invention_of_Somalia

"The first real attempt by scholars on Somalia to identify and analyze the basic assumptions which had informed the construction of the now discredited Somalia myth."

Articles by Mohamed Haji Mukhtar, Mohamed M. Kassim, Ahmed Qassim Ali, Abdi M Kusow, and Abdalla Omar Mansur. Published 1995, so these guys didn't even have the benefit of the DNA data.

Nearly all the stories told at independence were false.

 

[Canuck]

Funny you should mention that!

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/803985.The_Invention_of_Somalia

"The first real attempt by scholars on Somalia to identify and analyze the basic assumptions which had informed the construction of the now discredited Somalia myth."

Articles by Mohamed Haji Mukhtar, Mohamed M. Kassim, Ahmed Qassim Ali, Abdi M Kusow, and Abdalla Omar Mansur. Published 1995, so these guys didn't even have the benefit of the DNA data.

Nearly all the stories told at independence were false.

Grant stay in USA and your mother home is Tanzania. Do not waste your energy on Somalia matters. You will never be Somali you are from Tanzania accept it.

 

[Apollo]

Grant stay in USA and your mother home is Tanzania. Do not waste your energy on Somalia matters. You will never be Somali you are from Tanzania accept it.

Lol, he's a 60 year old white guy who worked in Somalia decades ago. He posted photos of his stay in Somalia on the old somnet forum.

 

[Grant]

Grant stay in USA and your mother home is Tanzania. Do not waste your energy on Somalia matters. You will never be Somali you are from Tanzania accept it.

I am not from Tanzania nor am I Somali.

Those who refuse to read even Somali authors probably already know what they want to know. Full cups can't accept more recent information. The nasab will not recognize the sab.

 

[Grant]

Lol, he's a 60 year old white guy who worked in Somalia decades ago. He posted photos of his stay in Somalia on the old somnet forum.

FYI: I am 73.