The Somali ethnicity and language probably emerged in Southern Somalia

[Grant]

He’s not talking about that. Maxa Tiri and Afar/Saho share grammar/linguistic similarities(not vocabulary) that isn’t found in the Maay dialect.

The Afar are 25% T. Is there any indication Maxaa could be the result of interaction between T1a and E-V32 coming from opposite directions?

Do you have a link for the linguistic comparison?

 

[MARAQ DIGAAG]

I might have got confused. Lol
It could be that Somalis as they expanded West, picked up some of the culture of neighboring populations.

The presence of Afar-Saho cognates in Northern Somali and their absence in Maay , Rendille ,has a more profound linguistic explanation.Some linguistic experts interpret this to mean Af-Maxa tiri speakers (after they split off from Af Maay)were in contact with some kind of now-extinct Afar-Saho like speakers in Somalia .The implication of this is that Northern Somalia could have once been settled by some kind of Afar-Saho like group before the Somali expansion.

We know from Somali folklore the Gabooye hunter gatherers and the Yibir were at one point dominant in the Nothern territories.Their kingdom was supposedly called Dhaami-not sure if this is linked to Ethiopian kingdom of Damot.

Some minorities in Somaliland claim to speak their own languages,but the linguistic experts who studied them deem it to be a form of Somali with more slang.What we don’t know is if the likes of Gabooye/Midgaan are also Somali cushites who were ostracised for adopting hunter gathering or ate certain meats due to increased aridity and drought in Northern Somalia.They don’t look any different to the average Somali in my opinion,though DNA testing may suggest otherwise.

There might have also existed some kind of Soqotri or Sabaen settlers in Northern Somalia possibly explaining the presence of J in Warsengali.Amun is your DNA aficionadio.......

Will return to the Borana/Rendille tomorrow......

 

[Apollo]

The Afar are 25% T. Is there any indication Maxaa could be the result of interaction between T1a and E-V32 coming from opposite directions?

Do you have a link for the linguistic comparison?

Only the Djiboutian Afars, they probably assimilated some Dirs.

In Ethiopia and Eritrea the Afars don't have much T (less than 6%). Remember Djibouti has extremely high T with the Dirs (+80%).

 

[NourUgaas]

The presence of Afar-Saho cognates in Northern Somali and their absence in Maay , Rendille ,has a more profound linguistic explanation.Some linguistic experts interpret this to mean Af-Maxa tiri speakers (after they split off from Af Maay)were in contact with some kind of now-extinct Afar-Saho like speakers in Somalia .The implication of this is that Northern Somalia could have once been settled by some kind of Afar-Saho like group before the Somali expansion.

We know from Somali folklore the Gabooye hunter gatherers and the Yibir were at one point dominant in the Nothern territories.Their kingdom was supposedly called Dhaami-not sure if this is linked to Ethiopian kingdom of Damot.

Some minorities in Somaliland claim to speak their own languages,but the linguistic experts who studied them deem it to be a form of Somali with more slang.What we don’t know is if the likes of Gabooye/******* are also Somali cushites who were ostracised for adopting hunter gathering or ate certain meats due to increased aridity and drought in Northern Somalia.They don’t look any different to the average Somali in my opinion,though DNA testing may suggest otherwise.

There might have also existed some kind of Soqotri or Sabaen settlers in Northern Somalia possibly explaining the presence of J in Warsengali.Amun is your DNA aficionadio.......

Will return to the Borana/Rendille tomorrow......

I have a book that states Afars lived in Awdal heavily around 300-400 years ago.

 

[Bohol]

Nah. Jubbaland was Oromo land as recent as 160 years ago. Somali immigration in modern day Somalia always happened southward and westward. As a Puntlander you should know southern groups like the Marehan lived in Nugaal less than 200 years ago.

 

[Factz]

Nah. Jubbaland was Oromo land as recent as 160 years ago. Somali immigration in modern day Somalia always happened southward and westward.

The Oromos living in our lands and Somalis looting their lands through expansion is all a made up myth just like the Arab daddy myth. These myths were created to further support the Arab daddy ideology like Samaale, Darood and Isaaq.

Historically Jubbaland was ruled by Somalis like Ajuran Empire and Geledi Sultanate.

 

[Apollo]

Nah. Jubbaland was Oromo land as recent as 160 years ago. Somali immigration in modern day Somalia always happened southward and westward. As a Puntlander you should know southern groups like the Marehan lived in Nugaal less than 200 years ago.

That's the modern migration recorded in the books. I am speaking of a super ancient migration, likely around Jesus' time 1 CE.

Why would they live in rough Northern Somalia? South Somalia has a much better climate.

 

[MARAQ DIGAAG]

Nah. Jubbaland was Oromo land as recent as 160 years ago. Somali immigration in modern day Somalia always happened southward and westward. As a Puntlander you should know southern groups like the Marehan lived in Nugaal less than 200 years ago.

Fellow,just go back to the politics section and discussing Habar feuds .

 

[NourUgaas]

That's the modern migration recorded in the books. I am speaking of a super ancient migration, likely around Jesus' time 1 CE.

Why would they live in rough Northern Somalia? South Somalia has a much better climate.

Why would they migrate North to a more barren land as opposed to the South where the lands would only get more fertile? The hypothesis doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Apollo]

Why would they migrate North to a more barren land as opposed to the South where the lands would only get more fertile? The hypothesis doesn't make sense to me.

The camel was one of the last animals to be domesticated. Long after proto-Cushites had goats and cattle. I suspect they pushed into Puntland, Somaliland, and Djibouti when they got camels.

Hunter-gatherers or pastoralists with goats/cattle can't survive in big numbers in Northern Somalia.

By the way, old school South Somalis would be genetically identical to modern-day North Somalis in my hypothesis. So don't sweat it! No Bantu lived there back in those days.

 

[samaalewarrior]

@Apollo can you link me some sources that talk more about our southern origins?

 

[Apollo]

@Apollo can you link me some sources that talk more about our southern origins?

It's Suugo Science, but highly probable Suugo.

PS. Check out this thread: https://www.somalispot.com/threads/...san-e1b1b1-came-from-the-northern-horn.44537/

 

[caano and hilib ari]

Ah so jubba and shabelle are our ancestral territories yet we got some bantus acting like they were there before us and we’re all originally from the central and northern part of somalia

 

[Pastoralite]

Interesting info, then how come some people say we originated from the north?

 

[Prince Abubu]

The Lake Chamo region is a possible origin place.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Chamo

 

[James Dahl]

I don't believe that you can extrapolate the ancient origins of a language group where every member of the language family is highly nomadic with a history of long migrations using data based on the modern distribution of those languages.

The southern origin theory is based on linguistic evidence with no supporting archaeological or historical basis.

 

[Pastoralite]

I don't believe that you can extrapolate the ancient origins of a language group where every member of the language family is highly nomadic with a history of long migrations using data based on the modern distribution of those languages.

The southern origin theory is based on linguistic evidence with no supporting archaeological or historical basis.

Full Y studies will likely show a recent expansion of E-Z813 and T-Y16897 subclades from South Somalia to the North.

What do you think of this?

 

[James Dahl]

The same problem exists in that it's supposition based on MODERN population distribution. Ancient DNA is a different matter, but consider this: if you look at modern distribution, you would assume Daarood are from Jubbaland, and the Spanish language started in South America, because that's where the most diversity is.

 

[Pastoralite]

The same problem exists in that it's supposition based on MODERN population distribution. Ancient DNA is a different matter, but consider this: if you look at modern distribution, you would assume Daarood are from Jubbaland, and the Spanish language started in South America, because that's where the most diversity is.

Fascinating, @Apollo whas your take on this

 

[Apollo]

The Lake Chamo region is a possible origin place.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Chamo

f*ck no, definitely NOT. Somalis never ever lived that deep in Ethiopia.

My theory is purely for a Somalia origin, somewhere between Shabelle and Jubba river valleys.

The same problem exists in that it's supposition based on MODERN population distribution. Ancient DNA is a different matter, but consider this: if you look at modern distribution, you would assume Daarood are from Jubbaland, and the Spanish language started in South America, because that's where the most diversity is.

You are wrong.

French, Italian, Catalan, Occitan etc are all in Southern Europe. So it would be easy to trace Spanish back down to Southern Europe.