The spanish team new paper

[KingKalbi]

My point was that it wasn't an Axumite King and there is no evidence to support it. The strongest evidence shows it could be a greek or at most a greek influenced ruler.

The evidence for it being a “Greek” king is incredibly weak.

the inscription was left behind by an Axumity king, thats why it's relevant to mention that it was written in Greek. If it was written in Geez it would have left little doubt at the identity and authorship of it.

Also the opinion of it being an inscription by Ptolemy the 3rd was expressed by Kosmas who drew and recorded inscription.

Yes it wasn’t an Axumite king it was probably a king native to the Adulis region, but you bring up the fact that it was written in Greek as evidence the ruler was Greek but we have a set of Greek inscriptions on the Ezana stone which details conquests in Eritrea, Ethiopia and Sudan.
We also have Greek inscriptions found in Sudan from an Axumite king who preceded Ezana. And there is no Ge’ez or Sabean inscriptions next to the Greek writings like we see in the Ezana stone.

you even read this? He is praying to a Greek God as thanks, if that wasn't obvious enough.

They write Ares because they’re writing in Greek, they equate the 2 gods because they’re both gods of war. Ares and Mahrem, Mahrem was the most important God for Axumites at least in the context of war.

Ezanas Greek inscriptions say Ares, just like the Greek inscriptions in Meroe, and the Ge’ez inscriptions say Mahrem.

The land incense was Southern Arabia which is located to east of Adulis

Possibly but as far as I’m aware the term barbarians was most commonly applied to Cushites on the Red Sea coast not south Arabians, also the term Solate could be an early reference to “Somali”. Either way I won’t die on this hill I don’t have a very strong opinion on this matter because I don’t think there’s enough evidence either way.

Komas who found that inscription and attributed it to Ptolemy the 3rd. But yeah i wont beat a dead horse, we will perhaps never know for certain who was that anynomous ruler

If it was Ptolemy then why do we never find any other references to his conquests in the Horn of Africa? Why does it switch from 3rd person to 1st person? Do any other Ptolemaic inscriptions do that? I don’t think so.

We also see mention of Arabian tribes that only appear in textual records from the 2nd/3rd century AD onwards.
Truly the only evidence for this king being Ptolemy is the fact that Cosmas said so, and he provides no reasoning whatsoever.

 

[KingKalbi]

explained. I think we can agree that Aksum's size and power is somewhat exaggerated but let's not go too far here.

Opposite actually, Abraha xooged a lot of the Arabian peninsula at his peak. The lakhmid elites offered up his son because he couldn’t take it anymore smh.

 

[KingKalbi]

I've already told you, Pre-Christian Aksumite rulers were plainly Hellenized and so regularly incorporated Greek deities in their inscriptions. Even Ezana's pre-Christian inscriptions invoked Greek deities.

They were not hellenised at all the Greek influence was minor. They wrote in Greek because the people they mainly traded with were Greek speakers so they wanted to to cater to them.

 

[MacrobianPrince]

They were not hellenised at all the Greek influence was minor. They wrote in Greek because the people they mainly traded with were Greek speakers so they wanted to to cater to them.

They worshiped Greek gods, they were most definitely Hellenized. Not to mention they wrote in Greek in inscriptions these are two obvious indicators of occupation. Your claims are pretty baseless.

 

[Zak12]

Opposite actually, Abraha xooged a lot of the Arabian peninsula at his peak. The lakhmid elites offered up his son because he couldn’t take it anymore smh.

View attachment 359000View attachment 359001

Is this simply a case of expeditions and raids or was it actual conquests and annexations? I've seen maps on social media show nearly all of Arabia as apart of the Kingdom of Aksum which seemed a little out there.

 

[Idilinaa]

The evidence for it being a “Greek” king is incredibly weak.


Yes it wasn’t an Axumite king it was probably a king native to the Adulis region, but you bring up the fact that it was written in Greek as evidence the ruler was Greek but we have a set of Greek inscriptions on the Ezana stone which details conquests in Eritrea, Ethiopia and Sudan.
We also have Greek inscriptions found in Sudan from an Axumite king who preceded Ezana. And there is no Ge’ez or Sabean inscriptions next to the Greek writings like we see in the Ezana stone.
View attachment 358991



They write Ares because they’re writing in Greek, they equate the 2 gods because they’re both gods of war. Ares and Mahrem, Mahrem was the most important God for Axumites at least in the context of war.

Ezanas Greek inscriptions say Ares, just like the Greek inscriptions in Meroe, and the Ge’ez inscriptions say Mahrem.

In the other inscriptions we have clear references to Axum, the king's name etc. Also Geez/Musnad writing to accompany it. You see none of it in the Adulis inscription.

He not only makes an offering to Ares but also to Zeus another greek God.

Possibly but as far as I’m aware the term barbarians was most commonly applied to Cushites on the Red Sea coast not south Arabians, also the term Solate could be an early reference to “Somali”. Either way I won’t die on this hill I don’t have a very strong opinion on this matter because I don’t think there’s enough evidence either way.

Somalia is to the South of Adulis not to the east of it like the inscription says.

The people of Rauso and Solate are on the borders between Eritrea and Djibouti near the Dahlak islands, it’s not Somalia.

But you can see from the description of the land that the subjugation is happening in the Afar depression, so it's in the surrounding territories near them.

If it was Ptolemy then why do we never find any other references to his conquests in the Horn of Africa? Why does it switch from 3rd person to 1st person? Do any other Ptolemaic inscriptions do that? I don’t think so.

We also see mention of Arabian tribes that only appear in textual records from the 2nd/3rd century AD onwards.
Truly the only evidence for this king being Ptolemy is the fact that Cosmas said so, and he provides no reasoning whatsoever.

There is other pieces of indication that might have led to them believe it was him for example the inscription says the author ended his conquests in his 27th year of reign, coincidentally Ptolemy III's last year of reign was his 27th.

 

[KingKalbi]

They worshiped Greek gods, they were most definitely Hellenized. Not to mention they wrote in Greek in inscriptions these are two obvious indicators of occupation. Your claims are pretty baseless.

Why didn’t they write Ares in Sabean or ge’ez? I guess Somalis have been occupied by Arabs as Somalis have been Muslims from the 9th century onwards right? Can you point to any other significant Greek influence?
Anyway I'm not denying Greek influence but to say they were hellenised is just nonsense, we have the usage of Greek writing, a Byzantine style basilica in Adulis and that’s basically it. There is little evidence of Greek influence in Axumite material culture, especially in the city of Axum.

Using your logic Somalis were occupied by Arabs and are currently occupied by the English as you historically wrote in Arabic and currently write in English?

 

[KingKalbi]

In the other inscriptions we have clear references to Axum, the king's name etc. Also Geez/Musnad writing to accompany it. You see none of it in the Adulis inscription.

Some of the throne was damaged, we don’t have the entire inscription. Also I literally just said we have Greek inscriptions from Meroe from an Axumite king and we have no Ge’ez or Sabean to accompany it.

He not only makes an offering to Ares but also to Zeus another greek God.

Again, I literally addressed this already I’m not gonna repeat myself, try actually reading next time.

Somalia is to the South of Adulis not to the east of it like the inscription says.

The people of Rauso and Solate are on the borders between Eritrea and Djibouti near the Dahlak islands, it’s not Somalia.

It’s to the south east. And the description doesn’t fit Afar because it describes a people by the coast who were enclosed by “mighty mountains”, that fits Northern Somalia or parts of Southern Arabia better. There are no mountains anywhere near the Danakil.

 

[KingKalbi]

Is this simply a case of expeditions and raids or was it actual conquests and annexations? I've seen maps on social media show nearly all of Arabia as apart of the Kingdom of Aksum which seemed a little out there.

He conquered them and forced them to submit and pay tribute, that’s most likely all he done. Axumites typically didn’t interfere with local affairs much, in the Adulis inscriptions they say explicitly that we’ll let them do as they please so long as they pay tribute and don’t raid.

 

[Idilinaa]

Some of the throne was damaged, we don’t have the entire inscription. Also I literally just said we have Greek inscriptions from Meroe from an Axumite king and we have no Ge’ez or Sabean to accompany it.


Again, I literally addressed this already I’m not gonna repeat myself, try actually reading next time.

We have both sets of related inscriptions ,parts of the Throne and Table of Adulatinum and both are written in Greek.

However, various stone inscriptions written in Ge'ez have also been discovered at Meroë:

Sewasew | AKSUMITE INSCRIPTIONS AND RELICS IN MEROË

[History] Despite the direct neighbourship of Meroe and Aksum, the earliest relics of Aksumite origin on Meroitic territory, amounting to two fragmentary royal inscriptions in Greek, two graffiti i...

en.sewasew.com

In addition, we have the Ezana Stone, which features inscriptions in Ge'ez, Sabaean (Musnad), and Greek.

It’s to the south east. And the description doesn’t fit Afar because it describes a people by the coast who were enclosed by “mighty mountains”, that fits Northern Somalia or parts of Southern Arabia better. There are no mountains anywhere near the Danakil.

If they traveled eastward, that would have brought them toward Southern Arabia.

The Rauso people were described as living between vast, waterless plains which corresponds to the Danakil Depression.

tAs for the 'Sesea' mentioned, they were most likely highlanders located around the Tigrayan/Tigrinya mountain regions. In fact, the conqueror’s reference to the conquest of the "Tigretes" is believed to be the earliest known mention of the Tigrayan/Tigrinya people.

Regarding the Solate, they are only mentioned once in the text. There's absolutely no solid connection between them and the Somali coast. In fact, none of the known ports or regions of ancient Somalia ,like Oponi, Mosyllon, or Avalites are mentioned anywhere in this inscription.

The tribes named here, like the Rauso and Solate, don't appear in any other historical records either.

 

[KingKalbi]

We have both sets of related inscriptions ,parts of the Throne and Table of Adulatinum and both are written in Greek.

However, various stone inscriptions written in Ge'ez have also been discovered at Meroë:

Lmao you don’t read do you?
Those ge’ez inscriptions in Meroe are separate from the Greek ones and have nothing to do with it. This means Aksumites left Greek inscriptions with no Ge’ez or Sabean besides it so The monumentem being written in Greek doesn’t mean it was only left by Ptolemy.

You are a waste of time and can’t even read.

 

[Idilinaa]

Lmao you don’t read do you?
Those ge’ez inscriptions in Meroe are separate from the Greek ones and have nothing to do with it. This means Aksumites left Greek inscriptions with no Ge’ez or Sabean besides it so The monumentem being written in Greek doesn’t mean it was only left by Ptolemy.

You are a waste of time and can’t even read.

The greek inscriptions were fragments and so were the geez left behind grafiti . There was also coins left behind.

What i am saying is that we have nothing else to collaborate Adulis inscription with.

 

[النوخذه بارع الزيلعي]

These guys remind me of some Ethiopian historians. Just straight making shit up with no citations or evidence.



There is not a single text that says or proves "Barbar" people from the Somali coast were ever mercenaries for the Aksumites. Frankly, to my honest chagrin, you'll be hard-pressed to even find sources mentioning the two groups even making contact in any way. We can only assume they made contact via the archaeology in that there's evidence of Ge'ez bibles and some Christian burials in the northwest.

who are the Berbers mentioned by ibn hisham If you think there is no evidence

to this claim ?

قَالَ ابْنُ إسْحَاقَ: وَقَالَ عَدِيُّ بْنُ زَيْدٍ الحِيريُّ، وَكَانَ أَحَدَ بَنِي تَمِيمٍ. قَالَ ابْنُ هِشَامٍ: ثُمَّ أَحَدُ بَنِي امْرِئِ الْقَيْسِ بْنِ زَيد مَنَاةَ بْنِ تَمِيمٍ، وَيُقَالُ: عَدِيٌّ مِنْ الْعِبَادِ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْحِيرَةِ

مَا بعدَ صنعاءَ كَانَ يَعْمُرها ... ولاةُ مُلك جَزْلٍ مواهبُها

رفَّعها مَنْ بَنَى لدى قَزَع الـ ... ـمُزْنِ وتَنْدَى مِسْكا مَحاربُها

مَحفوفةٌ بالجبالِ دونَ عُرَى الْـ ... ـكائدِ مَا تُرْتَقى

غواربُها يأنسُ فِيهَا صوتُ النُّهامِ إذا ... جاوبَها

بالعشيِّ قاصِبُها ساقت إليه الأسبابُ

جندَ بني الـ ... ـأحرارِ فرسانُها مواكبُها

وفوزت بالبغالِ تُوسَقُ بالـ ... ـحَتْفِ وتَسْعَى بِهَا توالبُها

حَتَّى رَآهَا الأقْوالُ مِنْ طرفِ الـ ... ـمَنقلِ مُخْضَرَّة كتائبُها

يوم يُنادون آل بَرْبر والـ ... ـيكْسوم لَا يُفْلَحنَّ هاربُها

وَكَانَ يَوْمُ بَاقِي الْحَدِيثِ وزا ... لت إمَّةٌ ثابت مراتبُها

وبُدِّل الفَيْج بالزرافةِ والأيا ... م جُونٌ جَم عَجَائِبُهَا

بعدَ بَنِي تُبَّع نَخاوِرة ... قَدْ اطمأنَّت بِهَا مرازُبها

 

[Shimbiris]

who are the Berbers mentioned by ibn hisham If you think there is no evidence View attachment 359045to this claim ?

قَالَ ابْنُ إسْحَاقَ: وَقَالَ عَدِيُّ بْنُ زَيْدٍ الحِيريُّ، وَكَانَ أَحَدَ بَنِي تَمِيمٍ. قَالَ ابْنُ هِشَامٍ: ثُمَّ أَحَدُ بَنِي امْرِئِ الْقَيْسِ بْنِ زَيد مَنَاةَ بْنِ تَمِيمٍ، وَيُقَالُ: عَدِيٌّ مِنْ الْعِبَادِ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْحِيرَةِ

مَا بعدَ صنعاءَ كَانَ يَعْمُرها ... ولاةُ مُلك جَزْلٍ مواهبُها

رفَّعها مَنْ بَنَى لدى قَزَع الـ ... ـمُزْنِ وتَنْدَى مِسْكا مَحاربُها

مَحفوفةٌ بالجبالِ دونَ عُرَى الْـ ... ـكائدِ مَا تُرْتَقى

غواربُها يأنسُ فِيهَا صوتُ النُّهامِ إذا ... جاوبَها

بالعشيِّ قاصِبُها ساقت إليه الأسبابُ

جندَ بني الـ ... ـأحرارِ فرسانُها مواكبُها

وفوزت بالبغالِ تُوسَقُ بالـ ... ـحَتْفِ وتَسْعَى بِهَا توالبُها

حَتَّى رَآهَا الأقْوالُ مِنْ طرفِ الـ ... ـمَنقلِ مُخْضَرَّة كتائبُها

يوم يُنادون آل بَرْبر والـ ... ـيكْسوم لَا يُفْلَحنَّ هاربُها

وَكَانَ يَوْمُ بَاقِي الْحَدِيثِ وزا ... لت إمَّةٌ ثابت مراتبُها

وبُدِّل الفَيْج بالزرافةِ والأيا ... م جُونٌ جَم عَجَائِبُهَا

بعدَ بَنِي تُبَّع نَخاوِرة ... قَدْ اطمأنَّت بِهَا مرازُبها

What is this, saaxiib? All the source says is that the people of Aksum and Barbar were called upon seemingly by Southern Arabians. That might refer to the Somali coast, sure, but where’s the actual evidence that Barbars from the Somali coast were serving as mercenaries under Aksumite command? This line doesn’t prove that—it just mentions them being summoned or named during a battle or event. That’s not the same as being a standing mercenary force under the Aksumites.

Weird reply, wallahi. But I did miss this one so thank you. Shows evidence of contact at least, though some other examples also exist but nothing on the level these Spanish fan fictionalists are claiming.

 

[GaradMusa]

What is this, saaxiib? All the source says is that the people of Aksum and Barbar were called upon seemingly by Southern Arabians. That might refer to the Somali coast, sure, but where’s the actual evidence that Barbars from the Somali coast were serving as mercenaries under Aksumite command? This line doesn’t prove that—it just mentions them being summoned or named during a battle or event. That’s not the same as being a standing mercenary force under the Aksumites.

Weird reply, wallahi. But I did miss this one so thank you. Shows evidence of contact at least, though some other examples also exist but nothing on the level these Spanish fan fictionalists are claiming.

The rest of the text can be found in the link below. There is further commentary on two potential genealogical origins for the Barbars: (1) descendants of Ham or (2) descendants of Goliath of the Amalekites. He notes that the name may stem from their style of speech which is something noted by other individuals. Certainly an interesting piece of text, but more information is needed to better understand what is occurring during the Aksumite invasion and pre-Islamic Yemen since there are other individuals that make mentions of the Barbars as a general inhabitance.

سيرة ابن هشام - ت طه عبد الرؤوف سعد - عبد الملك بن هشام - مکتبة مدرسة الفقاهة

ar.lib.efatwa.ir

 

[النوخذه بارع الزيلعي]

What is this, saaxiib? All the source says is that the people of Aksum and Barbar were called upon seemingly by Southern Arabians. That might refer to the Somali coast, sure, but where’s the actual evidence that Barbars from the Somali coast were serving as mercenaries under Aksumite command? This line doesn’t prove that—it just mentions them being summoned or named during a battle or event. That’s not the same as being a standing mercenary force under the Aksumites.

Weird reply, wallahi. But I did miss this one so thank you. Shows evidence of contact at least, though some other examples also exist but nothing on the level these Spanish fan fictionalists are claiming.

Its the closest explanation akhi and i don't see what bothers you about this, even some Arab clans were working as mercenaries in the Aksumite army ... few weeks ago I saw someone mention that Berbers were slaves in the Aksumite army and me saying that we were mercenaries seems closer to the truth

Also there is another poet close to this period by Imru’ al-Qais who mentions Barbars as mercenaries among his forces.. I advise you to read this article it will you benefit you alot :

مُختارات من تاريخ (بربره) في كتب مؤرّخي المسلمين

المعرفة والتأصيل

mbarre1.blogspot.com

 

[Shimbiris]

Its the closest explanation akhi and i don't see what bothers you about this, even some Arab clans were working as mercenaries in the Aksumite army ... few weeks ago I saw someone mention that Berbers were slaves in the Aksumite army and me saying that we were mercenaries seems closer to the truth

Also there is another poet close to this period by Imru’ al-Qais who mentions Barbars as mercenaries among his forces.. I advise you to read this article it will you benefit you alot :

مُختارات من تاريخ (بربره) في كتب مؤرّخي المسلمين

المعرفة والتأصيل

mbarre1.blogspot.com

It doesn't bother me, akhi. I meant that it doesn't seem relevant to the topic which is the idea that the "Berbers" (Somalis) of the time were mercenaries under the Aksumites. That source doesn't prove that at all nor back up any of the braindead takes these Spanish researchers overall put forward but it's a good share and thank you for it and the second poem.