The word "Somalian"

[Inactive]

Let's be honest here: People here are only against the word "Somalian" because it sounds ugly and because whenever the media talks about a negative story from Somalia or about Somalis, they use Somalian because it is the most common (and legitimate) way of calling us.

Your efforts to try and get rid of this word is like Libya getting a new flag after toppling Gaddafi's regime. You want a new image.

 

[DuctTape]

Madhibaan and Tumaal and Yibir are also discriminated against and treated ethnically distinct from "actual Somalis". They call them indigenous or Jews.



The majority of Somali Bantus speak only Somali.

Rahanwein and reer Xamar and reer Waqooyi and reer Djibouti speak very different from the standard Somali accent from Mudug.

You raise good points, but upon further Googling, I discovered that Ethnicity isn't a very solidly defined term. There are different sources of group identity that emphasise membership of a specific ethnic group.

• Ethno-linguistic, emphasizing shared language, dialect or script — example: Gaels
• Ethno-national, emphasizing a shared polity or sense of national identity — example: Iraqis or Americans
• Ethno-racial, emphasizing shared physical appearance based on genetic origins — example: African Americans
• Ethno-regional, emphasizing a distinct local sense of belonging stemming from relative geographic isolation — example: South Islanders
• Ethno-religious, emphasizing shared affiliation with a particular religion, denomination or sect — example: Jews or Sikhs

Let's ignore the "Ethno-religious" and "Ethno-regional" and national ones for now, since they either don't apply to Somalis or they aren't really debatable . Now, Bantus fit only one of the relevant categories, and that's Ethno-linguistic. Madhibaan, Tumal and Yibir share the Ethno-linguistic and Ethno-racial categories with Somalis, since they are genetically and physically indistinguisable from other Somalis. This is very subjective, but we've got to consider which one of these categories Somalis emphasise, which ones you need to fit in order to be considered Somali.

 

[Inactive]

You raise good points, but upon further Googling, I discovered that Ethnicity isn't a very solidly defined term. There are different sources of group identity that emphasise membership of a specific ethnic group.

• Ethno-linguistic, emphasizing shared language, dialect or script — example: Gaels
• Ethno-national, emphasizing a shared polity or sense of national identity — example: Iraqis or Americans
• Ethno-racial, emphasizing shared physical appearance based on genetic origins — example: African Americans
• Ethno-regional, emphasizing a distinct local sense of belonging stemming from relative geographic isolation — example: South Islanders
• Ethno-religious, emphasizing shared affiliation with a particular religion, denomination or sect — example: Jews or Sikhs

Let's ignore the "Ethno-religious" and "Ethno-regional" and national ones for now, since they either don't apply to Somalis or they aren't really debatable . Now, Bantus fit only one of the relevant categories, and that's Ethno-linguistic. Madhibaan, Tumal and Yibir share the Ethno-linguistic and Ethno-racial categories with Somalis, since they are genetically and physically indistinguisable from other Somalis. This is very subjective, but we've got to consider which one of these categories Somalis emphasise, which ones you need to fit in order to be considered Somali.

I agree with ethno racial not being shared.

But some Bantus even look like your average skinny due to mixing. I have mistaken one for a skinny before.

Regardless, they fit into the same ethnicity as per the definition I gave and 4 out of 5 of them in the full breakdown you provided.

Somali Bantus are ethnic Somalis.

 

[DuctTape]

They fall in all of them except ethno-racial. Some Bantus even look like your average skinny due to mixing. I have mistaken one for a skinny before.

They fit into the same ethnicity as per the definition

Okay, I'll concede your point. They can be technically considered as part of the same ethnic group as Somalis.
However, I'd like to raise this question to you. Almost every article or paper written about the Somali Bantu makes sure to distinguish them from "regular Somalis".

This last article even refers to them as a "new ethnicity". I used to think that ethnicities, unlike race, is not a social construct and is very easily proven by genetics and anthropological studies. But if an ethnic group is defined not just by their ancestral make-up, then why can a Somali who has never spoken Somali, is culturally and linguistically indistinguishable from other British, German, etc people, still considered ethnically Somali? Is it because of the fact that they look different? Also, your argument about you mixing up some Somali Bantus for Somalis doesn't add much to your argument. It's a known fact that they are physically different from us. Of course it's possible to get a few who might be mistaken for one of us. There are fully black people out there who can pass for white. So what?
Edit: I posted the same image twice lol

 

[Inactive]

Almost every article or paper written about the Somali Bantu makes sure to distinguish them from "regular Somalis".

They do it because they look different. But they are ethnic Somalis

 

[DuctTape]

They do it because they look different. But they are ethnic Somalis

You haven't addressed my other points.
"Somali Bantu" is considered an ethnicity of its own by a lot of people.
Sure according to your points they might be technically the same ethnicity as Somalis but that doesn't mean much when some of them see themselves as different from the ethnic group they claim to be a part of, and some even claiming to be the "original" members of the ethnic group they are supposed to be a part of. If I completely embraced UK culture, did everything exactly as the British do, I would be an ethnic Englishman according to what you're saying. You might be technically correct, but if I waltzed into a pub claiming I was ethnically English, I would get laughed out of the room.

 

[Inactive]

You haven't addressed my other points.
"Somali Bantu" is considered an ethnicity of its own by a lot of people.
Sure according to your points they might be technically the same ethnicity as Somalis but that doesn't mean much when some of them see themselves as different from the ethnic group they claim to be a part of, and some even claiming to be the "original" members of the ethnic group they are supposed to be a part of. If I completely embraced UK culture, did everything exactly as the British do, I would be an ethnic Englishman according to what you're saying. You might be technically correct, but if I waltzed into a pub claiming I was ethnically English, I would get laughed out of the room.

That's way different.

You're not even white.

The closest thing Somalis are closest to are Ethiopians and Bantus.

The whites are closest to other Europeans.

 

[Edo Nene]

I like the word "Somalian".

 

[Deactivated]

Puntite is so fucking dope!

 

[DuctTape]

That's way different.

You're not even white.

The closest thing Somalis are closest to are Ethiopians and Bantus.

The whites are closest to other Europeans.

It's really not that different. Race isn't a globally defined concept.
Somalis are not close to Bantus at all genetically or culturally, if that's what you're trying to say. Somalis are very distant from Bantus, and actually plot closer to Europeans than Bantus and West Africans on a PCA scale.

 

[Mohamud]

It's really not that different. Race isn't a globally defined concept.
Somalis are not close to Bantus at all genetically or culturally, if that's what you're trying to say. Somalis are very distant from Bantus, and actually plot closer to Europeans than Bantus and West Africans on a PCA scale.

Isn't that mostly because of absorbed genes after that Eurasian migration? Like 3k years or something. Before that I'm pretty sure we would have been fairly distant to both groups.

We more or less plot close to certain groups because of sheer isolation iirc.

 

[DuctTape]

Isn't that mostly because of absorbed genes after that Eurasian migration? Like 3k years or something. Before that I'm pretty sure we would have been fairly distant to both groups.

Might have been more than 3k years but yeah, the ancestors of the Somalis were isolated for thousands of years from West Africans (I say West Africans because Bantus are not 'native' to East Africa and only moved into East, Central and South Africa a couple thousands years ago) and so don't have much in common with them genetically. The Eurasian genes would shift us closer to Europeans and Arabs

 

[Mohamud]

Might have been more than 3k years but yeah, the ancestors of the Somalis were isolated for thousands of years from West Africans (I say West Africans because Bantus are not 'native' to East Africa and only moved into East, Central and South Africa a couple thousands years ago) and so don't have much in common with them genetically. The Eurasian genes would shift us closer to Europeans and Arabs

Yeah apparently that greatly affected central Africa as well. Chadians and Nigerans (Niger people) showing sizeable genetic frequencies with North Africa and Europeans. But ngl the science still isn't out on that. Hardly any conclusive data on many of these groups.

 

[Rooble]

who the hell cares if it's somali or somalian wtf, i used to call myself somalian occasionally until some braindead xalimo went ballistic on me ,i fail to understand why all these somalians(idgaf) get pissed off about that shit.And it's usually the females ,wallahi you guys are some petty fucks.

Me too I think it's ridiculous. Who cares about that crap.

 

[DuctTape]

Yeah apparently that greatly affected central Africa as well. Chadians and Nigerans (Niger people) showing sizeable genetic frequencies with North Africa and Europeans. But ngl the science still isn't out on that. Hardly any conclusive data on many of these groups.

That is interesting. I've noticed Wikipedia pages and genetic maps showing blobs of R1b and European haplogroups in Central Africa and it seems very strange that people from one of the most isolated parts of Africa would share a haplogroup with Europeans. And it raises the question, if that haplogroup reached Central Africa, why didn't it remain in the Horn? Was it 'phased out'? Lots of questions. But yeah there should be more studies on this, it's very interesting.

 

[Mohamud]

That is interesting. I've noticed Wikipedia pages and genetic maps showing blobs of R1b and European haplogroups in Central Africa and it seems very strange that people from one of the most isolated parts of Africa would share a haplogroup with Europeans. And it raises the question, if that haplogroup reached Central Africa, why didn't it remain in the Horn? Was it 'phased out'? Lots of questions. But yeah there should be more studies on this, it's very interesting.

Haplogroups mostly trace lineages and migrations of people. Which is odd because the e1b1b clade still dominates the countries above Niger and Chad. Also north Africa has more central African genetics than we once thought.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25069842

Apparently the Saharan desert is not much of a genetic barrier.

That place should be a priority for genetic testing tbh.

 

[DuctTape]

Haplogroups mostly trace lineages and migrations of people. Which is odd because the e1b1b clade still dominates the countries above Niger and Chad. Also north Africa has more central African genetics than we once thought.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25069842

Apparently the Saharan desert is not much of a genetic barrier.

That place should be a priority for genetic testing tbh.

The genetic relationships between Central, North and the Horn of Africa could reveal some pretty interesting details about ancient migrations. There isn't a whole lot of genetic testing in Africa in general, which baffles me.
Wasn't the Sahara wet and temperate thousands of years ago? That could have been a factor in the migrations between North and Central Africa.

 

[Mohamud]

The genetic relationships between Central, North and the Horn of Africa could reveal some pretty interesting details about ancient migrations. There isn't a whole lot of genetic testing in Africa in general, which baffles me.
Wasn't the Sahara wet and temperate thousands of years ago? That could have been a factor in the migrations between North and Central Africa.

Yeah it's hilarious flawed. Who knows what bombshells are hidden on that continent

 

[DuctTape]

Yeah it's hilarious flawed. Who knows what bombshells are hidden on that continent

"Genetic testing has discovered that humanity actually started in San Marino, not Ethiopia."
This is ridiculous but imagine the effects it would have on Ethiopia's tourism industry
Meanwhile San Marino would be launched into A-tier European country status
I actually hope this happens now sxb

 

[Mohamud]

"Genetic testing has discovered that humanity actually started in San Marino, not Ethiopia."
This is ridiculous but imagine the effects it would have on Ethiopia's tourism industry
Meanwhile San Marino would be launched into A-tier European country status
I actually hope this happens now sxb

I just want the oldest specimen to wash up on Somali borders so we can start shit talking