To Ex-Muslims I have a q

[Yoo]

Free will does exist in Islam. Allah created Mankind and Jinn to worship him and gave us free will as a test for us. If we worship him, he would give us jannah as a reward. If we disobey him then he would deal with us (May Allah protect us from Hellfire).

Allah says in the Quran- And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." (Surah 18:29)

Just because Allah knows the future and what would happen that doesn’t mean he’s controlling us. A teacher in a class room might know a student who would pass or fail depending on their character! That doesn’t mean the teacher should be blamed for the student failing just because she knew the student was going to fail in the passed.

Allah is all just and merciful. You have the free will he gave you so it’s your choice to use it.

@Waaqo of Punt is it clear now?

This teacher example is bad, Listen to this to get another view

 

[Yoo]

I wouldn’t call myself an ex Muslim but after visiting Somalia and seeing all the suffering to innocent Muslims I never really had the same faith as before. I’m probably agnostic in truth.

But to answer your question, I don’t tell anyone and behave normally. Islam is a religion I’m comfortable with and even admire in someways. Obviously it makes me a hypocrite but it’s a compromise that works for me.

What has the suffering got to do with your religious belief? where in somalia did you go

 

[Yoo]

You lot have way too much time on your hands

Getting off this site, too many weirdos

 

[Umm-al-Dhegdheeriyaa]

Getting off this site, too many weirdos

I think Somalis naturally have low IQs, this site shows us in our natural habitat

 

[Yoo]

I think Somalis naturally have low IQs, this site shows us in our natural habitat

Doubt all these people are actually somali

 

[Jiron]

it makes me sad when people lose their deen because I want everyone to go to jennah, I hope our sister Ikran finds her faith

 

[Exodus]

What has the suffering got to do with your religious belief? where in somalia did you go

I went to Mogadishu.

To answer your question,

If God cannot stop genocide, famine, rape, extreme poverty, and horrific diseases from happening to hundreds of millions of innocents then he is weak and not deserving of worship.

If he can stop it but chooses not to, he either does not care about us or is a sadist.

I have come to the conclusion that suffering is meaningless and that God is blind, deaf and dumb to our prayers.

 

[Desert Flower]

My parents know, and it’s normal now, but I don’t recommend it. They think it’s a phase.

If you insist on their knowing, you have to get your ducks in a row before you can tell them, bc you never know how they’ll react. For me, it was blurted out when my mom kept badgering me about salat. I used to be very deliberate with practice like you are.

The hijab thing was different for me, bc I put it on myself, but taking it off was definitely a thing.

Don’t dm @Waaqo of Punt

I had no idea that you are an ex-Muslim. What made you leave the deen?

 

[Desert Flower]

To the people here who left Islam do your family know? if not do you plan to tell them one day? How do you think they'll take it? if you have told them how did they take it?
I feel like hiding being an ex muslim is much easier for guys since I have to wear hijab and skirts around my fam so living a double life is hard

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[astorecalledkmart]

I went to Mogadishu.

To answer your question,

If God cannot stop genocide, famine, rape, extreme poverty, and horrific diseases from happening to hundreds of millions of innocents then he is weak and not deserving of worship.

If he can stop it but chooses not to, he either does not care about us or is a sadist.

I have come to the conclusion that suffering is meaningless and that God is blind, deaf and dumb to our prayers.

Hi.

In my opinion, God has the capacity to do whatsoever He chooses to do. Why stop at famine, genocide, or poverty? God could have skipped all that and put us in Heaven directly. Or even further, God could have not created us at all.

I believe in free will. I also believe that bad things that happen on Earth are usually driven by the hands of men, not Acts of God. If we were not free to make these decisions, then our existence and time on this earth from a religious perspective would not make sense as our fates would be sealed from before our conception. This leads to a further question - what about natural disasters? Those aren't man-made. That is true. Those are Acts of God, but in my opinion, if a natural disaster is not expressly mentioned in the Quran as being diving punishment, then we as humans should view it as exactly that - simply a natural disaster.

The problem with much of the anti-religion argument is that people often try to frame it as though God is another human whom you can argue with. God is God. His Will is Absolute. He is beyond human comprehension. He is Reality, not some painting of an old white guy.

It is by Allah's Mercy that souls shall enter Heaven, not deeds. In His Plan, death, suffering, poverty, and pain in this world all go towards absolving you of sins and protecting you in the Hereafter. If you were an innocent baby who died in an earthquake, we believe you'll go to Heaven forever and ever. No amount of good deeds in this life can justify a immortal existence in bliss.

Conversely, if you have health, wealth, and seemingly good luck but are a wicked person? Those same traits which you misused in life will lead to your damnation. 80 years of comfort will suck compared to an eternity in hellfire.

 

[PhySom]

It must be depressing to be an atheist. When your loved one dies you literally believe its finished for them. Tough way to grief.

Not really... we just dont know what happens.

It is probably finished for them though , even in Islam animals are transformed to dust and are non sentient.

It's sad...but thats life.

 

[astorecalledkmart]

Not really... we just dont know what happens.

It is probably finished for them though , even in Islam animals are transformed to dust and are non sentient.

It's sad...but thats life.

The whole dust thing originated from a hadeeth from al-Silsilat al-Saheehah that refers to how God will judge even between animals who have wronged one another on the Day of Judgement before turning them into dust

That hadeeth is problematic in that:
1) it runs counter to the fundamental Islamic notion that animals have no free-will and are automatically Muslim, and as such, cannot sin (humans and jinns have free wills, and as such, can sin and so will be punished)
2) it makes no sense that God would judge between two beings only to wipe both of them from existence as soon as He passes his Judgement
3) that hadeeth of animals being turned into dust on the Day of Judgement runs contrary to the following verses from the Quran:

"All the creatures on earth, and all the birds that fly with wings, are communities like you. We did not leave anything out of this book. To their Lord, all these creatures will be summoned" (Surah Al-Anam verse 38)

"And when the wild beasts are gathered" (Surat At-Takwir verse 5) - in reference to the Day of Judgment

All the animals on Earth may end up in their own version of heaven for all we know. Allah knows best.

 

[Luciddreamer]

Ask away, been there too but was resilient in not leaving without exhausting all possibilities. Before looking at religion i had to look deeply into my belief in a creator and then on from there, i hope you havent closed the door on the idea of being wrong with your conclusion. This is a giant decision to make

ye the concepts, story and rules of all religion can get you lost in details and miss the bigger picture. it can throw you off balance and corrupt you. nothing is absolute and final.

i believe in a creator, i believe in souls, i believe there is a beginning after death. i believe reality is both what we can see and not see. does it really matter what these beliefs are called? religion is the same fundamental concepts with different masks.

 

[Umm-al-Dhegdheeriyaa]

I went to Mogadishu.

To answer your question,

If God cannot stop genocide, famine, rape, extreme poverty, and horrific diseases from happening to hundreds of millions of innocents then he is weak and not deserving of worship.

If he can stop it but chooses not to, he either does not care about us or is a sadist.

I have come to the conclusion that suffering is meaningless and that God is blind, deaf and dumb to our prayers.

Those are all things caused by human beings, God gave human beings the freedom to do whatever and some decided to do that. This world is a test, don’t expect fairies to fly from the sky and kiss your cheeks. It’s our duty to help them, but know that the world works in a balance there are those that are starving and those that are full. Don’t blame God for things your people and my people caused. There are always lessons to be learned through hardships.
And there are multiple times God has changed your life and many others. The fact that you are in a developed country and get to have whatever, isn’t that by Gods mercy? You can choose to worship donkeys for all I care but don’t be spouting bullshit that doesn’t make sense just because your soul is worse than being deaf, blind and dumb(p.s thank you for quoting the Quran, I’m impressed with you atheists)

 

[YourBroMoe]

Out of curiosity, can a faith based believer be semi-agnostic ?

Yup, agnosticism is a position of knowledge, not faith.

For you @ikraan I'm a Agnostic Deist. I believe in a higher power. I'm personally not religious. No, I haven't told my fam, but I'm pretty sure if I do, they won't be surprised, they have strong suspicions.

It is definitely easier for guys than women. That's not even a contest.

 

[YourBroMoe]

Those are all things caused by human beings, God gave human beings the freedom to do whatever and some decided to do that. This world is a test, don’t expect fairies to fly from the sky and kiss your cheeks. It’s our duty to help them, but know that the world works in a balance there are those that are starving and those that are full. Don’t blame God for things your people and my people caused. There are always lessons to be learned through hardships.
And there are multiple times God has changed your life and many others. The fact that you are in a developed country and get to have whatever, isn’t that by Gods mercy? You can choose to worship donkeys for all I care but don’t be spouting bullshit that doesn’t make sense just because your soul is worse than being deaf, blind and dumb(p.s thank you for quoting the Quran, I’m impressed with you atheists)

This is kinda a cop out though. God made those evil guys knowing what they'd do. God literally wrote the book on each person's life, and is all knowing. Saying God isn't responsible at all is nonsensical. God made everything. God knows everything. But even though he made an evil man, and knew what he'd do, he's magically not responsible? Get outta here with that.

 

[YourBroMoe]

I wouldn’t call myself an ex Muslim but after visiting Somalia and seeing all the suffering to innocent Muslims I never really had the same faith as before. I’m probably agnostic in truth.

But to answer your question, I don’t tell anyone and behave normally. Islam is a religion I’m comfortable with and even admire in someways. Obviously it makes me a hypocrite but it’s a compromise that works for me.

I respect that.

 

[Ayubi]

This is kinda a cop out though. God made those evil guys knowing what they'd do. God literally wrote the book on each person's life, and is all knowing. Saying God isn't responsible at all is nonsensical. God made everything. God knows everything. But even though he made an evil man, and knew what he'd do, he's magically not responsible? Get outta here with that.

Are you talking about qadr? I’ll explain. Let me give you an example.

Just because Allah knows the future and what would happen that doesn’t mean he’s controlling us and we “have no free will.” A teacher in a class room might know a student who would pass or fail depending on their character! That doesn’t mean the teacher should be blamed for the student failing just because she knew the student was going to fail in the past.

The book of Allah (the preserved tablet) is Allahs knowledge of every single detail that’s going to happen till the day of judgement. That doesn’t mean he’s controlling us. Just like your boss writes in his book that your going to come for an upcoming interview, it doesn’t mean your boss is forcing you! It just means that he knows and simply wrote it down before it took place.

I hope it’s clear by now.

 

[YourBroMoe]

Are you talking about qadr? I’ll explain. Let me give you an example.

Just because Allah knows the future and what would happen that doesn’t mean he’s controlling us. A teacher in a class room might know a student who would pass or fail depending on their character! That doesn’t mean the teacher should be blamed for the student failing just because she knew the student was going to fail in the past.

The book of Allah (the preserved tablet) is Allahs knowledge of every single detail that’s going to happen on the day of judgement. That doesn’t mean he’s controlling us. Just like your boss writes in his book that your going to come for an upcoming interview, it doesn’t mean your boss is forcing you! It just means that he knows and simply wrote it down before it took place.

I hope it’s clear by now.

That's definitely a different interpretation than what I knew. However, even if God knew via knowing everything about a person and thus what they'd do, it doesn't explain the lack of intervention on evil actions done on the innocent. It explains evil actions of individuals, but not the injustices of those who are victims.

Now you can say that they will be punished in Hell. Okay, but then what of our interpretation of those going to Hell? I know that when you die, you either go to Hell or Heaven, yes? So, under this system, say there is a disbeliever. We know he is going to Hell, because he's a disbeliever, by definition of the rulings of Islam, that disbelievers won't go to Heaven. Now on Earth, some of these disbelievers are innocent, in the perspective that they didn't do anything wrong in a physical level. As in, they never stole, killed, cheated, etc. If these types of people go to Hell, for not believing, and evil men (who do the bad acts I mentioned before, like stealing, killing, cheating, etc) also go to Hell, what does this say about both Hell and the Judge of Hell, Allah?

How do you reconcile that there will be people you can proudly call your friend, who are going to Hell, for merely not believing, when they will be partnered with those who commit treacherous acts on Earth?

 

[Exodus]

Those are all things caused by human beings, God gave human beings the freedom to do whatever and some decided to do that. This world is a test, don’t expect fairies to fly from the sky and kiss your cheeks. It’s our duty to help them, but know that the world works in a balance there are those that are starving and those that are full. Don’t blame God for things your people and my people caused. There are always lessons to be learned through hardships.
And there are multiple times God has changed your life and many others. The fact that you are in a developed country and get to have whatever, isn’t that by Gods mercy? You can choose to worship donkeys for all I care but don’t be spouting bullshit that doesn’t make sense just because your soul is worse than being deaf, blind and dumb(p.s thank you for quoting the Quran, I’m impressed with you atheists)

What about natural disasters or diseases? What kind of a god lets children develop terminal cancer and other genetic illnesses?

God has a funny way of averting responsibility, everything bad is due to humans (who he created), everything good is due to God. The mental gymnastics needed to justify this is outstanding honestly.