Troubles in SWS and reasons the FGS is more right than wrong.

We make the best choices we can at the time we make them.

A common mistake I see is people working from a primitive, tribal-influenced mindset. Some believe that anything associated with HSM administration is inherently bad, and the only good option is the opposite. This is a simplistic and destructive way of thinking that leads to holding contradictory and paradoxical beliefs simultaneously.

Long before the MoU, Ethiopia has been a destructive force in Somali politics, through meddling, invasions, and generally keeping Somalia in a constant state of anxiety and unrest.

Not only Ethiopia, but Kenya as well can be seen as a destabilizing force. Their goal is not to support or restore Somali institutions but to project power deep into Somalia, paralyzing the Somali nation’s efforts. This is driven by a deeply rooted fear stemming from centuries of Somali dominance in the Horn of Africa, which was only truly halted in the 1990s.

The core of the current problem lies in the Federal Government's attempt to replace Ethiopian troops with Egyptian troops. Disagreement is natural, but the arguments made against this move are often weak and thinly veiled in tribalism.

From an administrative point of view, South West State is barely functional, consisting of enclaves around the largest cities, while vast areas of the countryside remain under Al-Shabaab control. After decades of AMISOM and now ATMIS presence, it is the region with the least land under state or federal control. Its people have suffered immensely from conflict, and trust in both state and federal authority is almost nonexistent. Furthermore, the population belongs to politically underrepresented clans.

Laftagareen, the leader of South West State, has strong ties to Ethiopia. Like many politicians, he is not a chosen leader by the people but a shrewd political figure who maneuvered his way into power. He is not uniquely evil or bad but stands out because, unlike most federal leaders, he lacks the ability to call upon sufficient support of his own clan for power. Many of his kin have aligned themselves with Al-Shabaab.

His power base has always been the Ethiopian occupation, with Ethiopian troops providing him with funding, training, and support for his small state militia and providing protection.

The current controversy stems from the fact that the ruling elite of South West State are losing their Ethiopian power base, and a new Egyptian presence is being installed, one that is closer to Mogadishu than to Laftagareen and his clique.

Nationally, this shift would significantly reduce Ethiopia’s influence over Somalia. Ethiopia’s ability to use South West State as a staging ground or threat to Mogadishu would be curtailed. Locally, while the elites would struggle to maintain their positions, for most people, little would change. However, some might argue it could improve, as having Muslim forces present, compared to historical Christian enemies, could lend more legitimacy to the regional and state governments.

It raises the question: what alternative would there be? Having Ethiopian troops in Somalia was a valid criticism both Somalilanders and unionists made against HSM. This seems the most realistic way to remove it.

The idea that Somalia needs a continuous presence of foreign troops is tragic, but the internal divisions are so deep that the Federal Government and southern regional states would collapse within months without them.

It’s better to negotiate terms and be selective about the troops, ensuring they come from nations with a shared interest in seeing a strong Somalia, even if it's for their own geopolitical interests.

I think Madobe, the leader of Jubaland, highlights Laftagareen’s incompetence. Both had foreign backing and troops in their regions, but unlike Laftagareen, Madobe built his own power base and loyal forces, granting him a degree of autonomy that Laftagareen simply lacks.

There are legitimate arguments to be made, such as the Federal Government pulling more power toward itself unilaterally. But this does not outweigh the existential problem of Ethiopian troops on Somali soil. Gaining more autonomy by removing such a corrupt and vile force, even for a lesser evil, is essential. Anti-Ethiopian sentiments in Somalia are so high that they’ve become toxic. The average Somali, both online and offline, welcomes the removal of Ethiopian troops, especially those within and outside of South West State.
 
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We make the best choices we can at the time we make them.

A common mistake I see is people working from a primitive, tribal-influenced mindset. Some believe that anything associated with HSM administration is inherently bad, and the only good option is the opposite. This is a simplistic and destructive way of thinking that leads to holding contradictory and paradoxical beliefs simultaneously.

Long before the MoU, Ethiopia has been a destructive force in Somali politics, through meddling, invasions, and generally keeping Somalia in a constant state of anxiety and unrest.

Not only Ethiopia, but Kenya as well can be seen as a destabilizing force. Their goal is not to support or restore Somali institutions but to project power deep into Somalia, paralyzing the Somali nation’s efforts. This is driven by a deeply rooted fear stemming from centuries of Somali dominance in the Horn of Africa, which was only truly halted in the 1990s.

The core of the current problem lies in the Federal Government's attempt to replace Ethiopian troops with Egyptian troops. Disagreement is natural, but the arguments made against this move are often weak and thinly veiled in tribalism.

From an administrative point of view, South West State is barely functional, consisting of enclaves around the largest cities, while vast areas of the countryside remain under Al-Shabaab control. After decades of AMISOM and now ATMIS presence, it is the region with the least land under state or federal control. Its people have suffered immensely from conflict, and trust in both state and federal authority is almost nonexistent. Furthermore, the population belongs to politically underrepresented clans.

Laftagareen, the leader of South West State, has strong ties to Ethiopia. Like many politicians, he is not a chosen leader by the people but a shrewd political figure who maneuvered his way into power. He is not uniquely evil or bad but stands out because, unlike most federal leaders, he lacks the ability to call upon sufficient support of his own clan for power. Many of his kin have aligned themselves with Al-Shabaab.

His power base has always been the Ethiopian occupation, with Ethiopian troops providing him with funding, training, and support for his small state militia and providing protection.

The current controversy stems from the fact that the ruling elite of South West State are losing their Ethiopian power base, and a new Egyptian presence is being installed, one that is closer to Mogadishu than to Laftagareen and his clique.

Nationally, this shift would significantly reduce Ethiopia’s influence over Somalia. Ethiopia’s ability to use South West State as a staging ground or threat to Mogadishu would be curtailed. Locally, while the elites would struggle to maintain their positions, for most people, little would change. However, some might argue it could improve, as having Muslim forces present, compared to historical Christian enemies, could lend more legitimacy to the regional and state governments.

It raises the question: what alternative would there be? Having Ethiopian troops in Somalia was a valid criticism both Somalilanders and unionists made against HSM. This seems the most realistic way to remove it.

The idea that Somalia needs a continuous presence of foreign troops is tragic, but the internal divisions are so deep that the Federal Government and southern regional states would collapse within months without them.

It’s better to negotiate terms and be selective about the troops, ensuring they come from nations with a shared interest in seeing a strong Somalia, even if it's for their own geopolitical interests.

I think Madobe, the leader of Jubaland, highlights Laftagareen’s incompetence. Both had foreign backing and troops in their regions, but unlike Laftagareen, Madobe built his own power base and loyal forces, granting him a degree of autonomy that Laftagareen simply lacks.

There are legitimate arguments to be made, such as the Federal Government pulling more power toward itself unilaterally. But this does not outweigh the existential problem of Ethiopian troops on Somali soil. Gaining more autonomy by removing such a corrupt and vile force, even for a lesser evil, is essential. Anti-Ethiopian sentiments in Somalia are so high that they’ve become toxic. The average Somali, both online and offline, welcomes the removal of Ethiopian troops, especially those within and outside of South West State.


Can you prove the people of SWS would prefer Egypt over Ethiopia? Can you prove a disconnect between the elites and the people?

Is the animosity towards Ethiopia as widespread as you say it is or actually more specific to certain tribes?

At the end of the day in a battle between two groups of tribalists (FGS) and FMS. You can't simply say it's a unfounded criticism to call the FGS tribalist at this point. Who is more in the wrong? For the FGS to claim it's legitimacy to act unilaterally it must shed it's tribalism, until it does so it's merely taking advantage of Ethiopia's MoU to further a tribal agenda.

To argue that one should support an FGS at that this point is merely to acquiesce to one tribal agenda over another.
 

Pastoralist

Dhib marku wah nokdo, Isku tiirsada
VIP
“Thinly veiled in tribalism” is only natural when dealing with a tribalist president who is just as big of a threat to Somalia.

so it’s important you mentioned a lesser evil, however there’s little of this thread which points to the faults of the president and why we are in this mess to begin with. He sent Turkish trained troops to KGS before he sent them to those that actually signed the MOU while discriminating against their state all throughout his term in spats and armed conflicts. So to that end, the lesser evil would not exactly be as clear of an answer to those people who know of these events. Ethiopian airlines still come to mogadishu, and we are taking action against those that never gave ENDF a naval base.

eritrea is on the Egyptian side of things, so I feel good about it as Eritrea is more trustworthy than Hassan. But let’s not act clueless as if there isn’t smoke without a fire.

HSM to Puntland “We will destroy it in 24 days”
HSM to SSC “We don’t recognize you”
HSM to SL “We want to negotiate”?????
HSM to South West “Traitors”
HSM to Jub-L “Silent”
HSM to Hiran “You have to be under my clan”
HSM to Gedo “I don’t like your clan”
 
At the end of the day Reer SWS has to preserve its people and territory. Bringing Egyptians to KGS and Bakool which borders Ethiopia knowing those two countries have beef is inviting a proxy war into our regions which will lead to the bloodshed of our innocent civillians.

Therefore we as SWS have a right to disagree and say No we will not allow this to happen. Somalia today is not like the past. We have federal states and every state has the right to push its interests and disagree with whatever will put them at jeapordy.

This idea that Ethiopia is an enemy but Xalane, burundians, ugandans and Kenyans and Egyptians arent is something that will never run by us. Either the FGS can remove all foreign troops or keep them all as they are.

We as reer SWS can see behind this cloak of fake ''wadaniyad'' where Ethiopia is being painted as our enemy while other foreigners are our friends. The reality is that the FGS wants to replace the ethiopian troops with egyptian troops to dominate sws and push their clan interests like colonising the shabeelada hoose region.
 
with a tribalist president who is just as big of a threat to Somalia.
You are right but my dislike of Ethiopia is greater than my dislike of HSM. The latter will be gone in two years while the former has continued an occupation that has gone on for far too long.
 
“Thinly veiled in tribalism” is only natural when dealing with a tribalist president who is just as big of a threat to Somalia.

so it’s important you mentioned a lesser evil, however there’s little of this thread which points to the faults of the president and why we are in this mess to begin with. He sent Turkish trained troops to KGS before he sent them to those that actually signed the MOU while discriminating against their state all throughout his term in spats and armed conflicts. So to that end, the lesser evil would not exactly be as clear of an answer to those people who know of these events. Ethiopian airlines still come to mogadishu, and we are taking action against those that never gave ENDF a naval base.

eritrea is on the Egyptian side of things, so I feel good about it as Eritrea is more trustworthy than Hassan. But let’s not act clueless as if there isn’t smoke without a fire.

HSM to Puntland “We will destroy it in 24 days”
HSM to SSC “We don’t recognize you”
HSM to SL “We want to negotiate”?????
HSM to South West “Traitors”
HSM to Jub-L “Silent”
HSM to Hiran “You have to be under my clan”
HSM to Gedo “I don’t like your clan”
This post was created specifically for this decision and is not intended to justify any past or future actions, nor is it an endorsement of his presidency.

While I don't necessarily disagree with it, you appear to largely agree with the main point and just mention problems with the HSM presidency, which I don't even disagree with. The first few sentences are dedicated to saying a bad presidency can still make certain good decision for the country, and not cloud every decision with prior vitriol
Can you prove the people of SWS would prefer Egypt over Ethiopia? Can you prove a disconnect between the elites and the people?

Is the animosity towards Ethiopia as widespread as you say it is or actually more specific to certain tribes?

At the end of the day in a battle between two groups of tribalists (FGS) and FMS. You can't simply say it's a unfounded criticism to call the FGS tribalist at this point. Who is more in the wrong? For the FGS to claim it's legitimacy to act unilaterally it must shed it's tribalism, until it does so it's merely taking advantage of Ethiopia's MoU to further a tribal agenda.

To argue that one should support an FGS at that this point is merely to acquiesce to one tribal agenda over another.
1726581554151.png

Your entire presence on this site is throwing oil on any conflict and nudge whatever side is advantage for your cause. Most of your questions can be answered by actually reading the post.
 
FGS is too heavy handed in its approach with SW. There needs to be a clear and open communication between Mogadishu and SW that serves to alleviate the worries of the people there. It seems nowadays HSM is taking every action except reconciliation.
 
This post was created specifically for this decision and is not intended to justify any past or future actions, nor is it an endorsement of his presidency.

While I don't necessarily disagree with it, you appear to largely agree with the main point and just mention problems with the HSM presidency, which I don't even disagree with. The first few sentences are dedicated to saying a bad presidency can still make certain good decision for the country, and not cloud every decision with prior vitriol

View attachment 343117
Your entire presence on this site is throwing oil on any conflict and nudge whatever side is advantage for your cause. Most of your questions can be answered by actually reading the post.

I noticed that it's becoming a trend for Hawiye to accuse everyone of being an Oromo/Ethiopian who opposes their agenda. I made a point that you basically couldn't answer:

Here is the answer, if HSM was legit he would bring in a unity government and then do what he is doing to any who rejected the unity government and he would have wide spread support.


Martin Lawrence Lol GIF by Martin


If I was Oromo and pushing an agenda, why would I say I am Oromo? That's dumb shit. As a lander I have a stake in the reformation of Somalia too. While we escape we might as well push for a reformed government.
 

Pastoralist

Dhib marku wah nokdo, Isku tiirsada
VIP
You are right but my dislike of Ethiopia is greater than my dislike of HSM. The latter will be gone in two years while the former has continued an occupation that has gone on for far too long.
If LG leaves he may not be gone is the thing. Either by bringing in a FGS selected fms leader or having Egyptian troops control the mp selection process like Kenyans and Ethiopians do. Which is not as bad as Ethiopia to me (still bad nonetheless) but to others in Somalia it is. However all worries aside. Even the worst president of Somalia is capable of good things. It’d be a lie to say he hasn’t accomplished anything.
 
I noticed that it's becoming a trend for Hawiye to accuse everyone of being an Oromo/Ethiopian who opposes their agenda. I made a point that you basically couldn't answer:

Here is the answer, if HSM was legit he would bring in a unity government and then do what he is doing to any who rejected the unity government and he would have wide spread support.


Martin Lawrence Lol GIF by Martin


If I was Oromo and pushing an agenda, why would I say I am Oromo? That's dumb shit. As a lander I have a stake in the reformation of Somalia too. While we escape we might as well push for a reformed government.
Accuse you? Those are your words there. The main point of his article appears to apply to you the most.
 
Accuse you? Those are your words there. The main point of his article would appear to aply to you the most.
Confused Donald Glover GIF by Saturday Night Live

dave chappelle GIF



The main point of the article is Ethiopia is an existential threat which not everyone agrees with, a tribalistic central government, which is what is right now, has done arguablly more chaos and death inside Somalia.

What past central governments did directly, this weakened FGS will just allow areas, not inhabited by Hawiye to be turned into a war ground with unknown casualities. That is the real danger. Undemocratic government is a real danger because certain voices are not heard or catered to at all.
 
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Confused Donald Glover GIF by Saturday Night Live

dave chappelle GIF



The main point of the article is Ethiopia is an existential threat which not everyone agrees with, a tribalistic central government, which is what is right now, has done arguablly more chaos and death inside Somalia.

What past central governments did directly, this weakened FGS will just allow areas, not inhabited by Hawiye to be turned into a war ground with unknown casualities. That is the real danger. Undemocratic government is a real danger because certain voices are not heard or catered to at all.
You really should reread the article.
 
At the end of the day Reer SWS has to preserve its people and territory. Bringing Egyptians to KGS and Bakool which borders Ethiopia knowing those two countries have beef is inviting a proxy war into our regions which will lead to the bloodshed of our innocent civillians.

Therefore we as SWS have a right to disagree and say No we will not allow this to happen. Somalia today is not like the past. We have federal states and every state has the right to push its interests and disagree with whatever will put them at jeapordy.

This idea that Ethiopia is an enemy but Xalane, burundians, ugandans and Kenyans and Egyptians arent is something that will never run by us. Either the FGS can remove all foreign troops or keep them all as they are.

We as reer SWS can see behind this cloak of fake ''wadaniyad'' where Ethiopia is being painted as our enemy while other foreigners are our friends. The reality is that the FGS wants to replace the ethiopian troops with egyptian troops to dominate sws and push their clan interests like colonising the shabeelada hoose region.
1726581961653.png

If we're talking purely in numbers, wouldn’t Al-Shabaab be the de facto spokesperson for the Reewin cause? Under Laftagareen’s leadership, South West State has seen the least territorial progress, while much of the region's advancements have come from federally aligned troops.

Lets not even talk about the lack of development of the region under his leadership.
It's incredibly ironic to talk about preserving territory and preventing colonization in one sentence, and then in the next, advocate for keeping Ethiopian troops on our soil.

All foreign troops should leave, but claiming they’ve all had an equal role in Somalia’s erosion is a historical misconception. Even with Ethiopian troops being replaced, part of their replacement are actually freshly trained Somali troops.

I noticed that it's becoming a trend for Hawiye to accuse everyone of being an Oromo/Ethiopian who opposes their agenda. I made a point that you basically couldn't answer:

Here is the answer, if HSM was legit he would bring in a unity government and then do what he is doing to any who rejected the unity government and he would have wide spread support.


Martin Lawrence Lol GIF by Martin


If I was Oromo and pushing an agenda, why would I say I am Oromo? That's dumb shit. As a lander I have a stake in the reformation of Somalia too. While we escape we might as well push for a reformed government.
You'd be suprised. I make a point of not disclosing my clan as I wish my post to be seen on their own merit. If I ever disclose it, you and a whole bunch of people would get a heartattack from the suprise.
 
View attachment 343118
If we're talking purely in numbers, wouldn’t Al-Shabaab be the de facto spokesperson for the Reewin cause? Under Laftagareen’s leadership, South West State has seen the least territorial progress, while much of the region's advancements have come from federally aligned troops.

Lets not even talk about the lack of development of the region under his leadership.
It's incredibly ironic to talk about preserving territory and preventing colonization in one sentence, and then in the next, advocate for keeping Ethiopian troops on our soil.

All foreign troops should leave, but claiming they’ve all had an equal role in Somalia’s erosion is a historical misconception. Even with Ethiopian troops being replaced, part of their replacement are actually freshly trained Somali troops.


You'd be suprised. I make a point of not disclosing my clan as I wish my post to be seen on their own merit. If I ever disclose it, you and a whole bunch of people would get a heartattack from the suprise.
I would not be against Somali troops taking the place of the Ethiopian troops but to send Egyotian troops is not in our interests, We would prefer not host a proxy war in our territories.
 

Thegoodshepherd

Galkacyo iyo Calula dhexdood
VIP
@JamalFarah Culusow and his government are not very worried about the MOU. If they were, they would be doing obvious things that would immediately let me know that they think there is a real probability of Ethiopia recognizing Somaliland.

So far, I don’t think there is a real risk of that happening. The FGS does not seem very worried. Wake me up when they have recognized SSC or released Puntland’s aid monies.
 
@JamalFarah Culusow and his government are not very worried about the MOU. If they were, they would be doing obvious things that would immediately let me know that they think there is a real probability of Ethiopia recognizing Somaliland.

So far, I don’t think there is a real risk of that happening. The FGS does not seem very worried. Wake me up when they have recognized SSC or released Puntland’s aid monies.

Keeping Somaliland is a priority but recongizing SSc does nothing to prevent that. You think Ethiopia is going to say, oh no they recognized the eastern border as a state. You mix internal politics with independence borders, they have nothing to do with eachother really. It changes nothing except creating a third Darood vote in Somalias politics which is undesirable.

Puntland is an opp under all circumstances. They should get nothing.
 
@JamalFarah Culusow and his government are not very worried about the MOU. If they were, they would be doing obvious things that would immediately let me know that they think there is a real probability of Ethiopia recognizing Somaliland.

So far, I don’t think there is a real risk of that happening. The FGS does not seem very worried. Wake me up when they have recognized SSC or released Puntland’s aid monies.

Last week, news was made public that aid to Puntland will resume, likely indicating a behind-the-scenes agreement between the FGS and Puntland. The FGS appears to have conceded, behind close doors, on the issue of constitutional changes, possibly due to its primary focus on reducing Ethiopian influence in SWS and the aggresive Ethiopian movements and avoiding a conflict on two fronts. So It does seem that Ethiopia is now at the for front of the agenda for the FGS.

 
We make the best choices we can at the time we make them.

A common mistake I see is people working from a primitive, tribal-influenced mindset. Some believe that anything associated with HSM administration is inherently bad, and the only good option is the opposite. This is a simplistic and destructive way of thinking that leads to holding contradictory and paradoxical beliefs simultaneously.

Long before the MoU, Ethiopia has been a destructive force in Somali politics, through meddling, invasions, and generally keeping Somalia in a constant state of anxiety and unrest.

Not only Ethiopia, but Kenya as well can be seen as a destabilizing force. Their goal is not to support or restore Somali institutions but to project power deep into Somalia, paralyzing the Somali nation’s efforts. This is driven by a deeply rooted fear stemming from centuries of Somali dominance in the Horn of Africa, which was only truly halted in the 1990s.

The core of the current problem lies in the Federal Government's attempt to replace Ethiopian troops with Egyptian troops. Disagreement is natural, but the arguments made against this move are often weak and thinly veiled in tribalism.

From an administrative point of view, South West State is barely functional, consisting of enclaves around the largest cities, while vast areas of the countryside remain under Al-Shabaab control. After decades of AMISOM and now ATMIS presence, it is the region with the least land under state or federal control. Its people have suffered immensely from conflict, and trust in both state and federal authority is almost nonexistent. Furthermore, the population belongs to politically underrepresented clans.

Laftagareen, the leader of South West State, has strong ties to Ethiopia. Like many politicians, he is not a chosen leader by the people but a shrewd political figure who maneuvered his way into power. He is not uniquely evil or bad but stands out because, unlike most federal leaders, he lacks the ability to call upon sufficient support of his own clan for power. Many of his kin have aligned themselves with Al-Shabaab.

His power base has always been the Ethiopian occupation, with Ethiopian troops providing him with funding, training, and support for his small state militia and providing protection.

The current controversy stems from the fact that the ruling elite of South West State are losing their Ethiopian power base, and a new Egyptian presence is being installed, one that is closer to Mogadishu than to Laftagareen and his clique.

Nationally, this shift would significantly reduce Ethiopia’s influence over Somalia. Ethiopia’s ability to use South West State as a staging ground or threat to Mogadishu would be curtailed. Locally, while the elites would struggle to maintain their positions, for most people, little would change. However, some might argue it could improve, as having Muslim forces present, compared to historical Christian enemies, could lend more legitimacy to the regional and state governments.

It raises the question: what alternative would there be? Having Ethiopian troops in Somalia was a valid criticism both Somalilanders and unionists made against HSM. This seems the most realistic way to remove it.

The idea that Somalia needs a continuous presence of foreign troops is tragic, but the internal divisions are so deep that the Federal Government and southern regional states would collapse within months without them.

It’s better to negotiate terms and be selective about the troops, ensuring they come from nations with a shared interest in seeing a strong Somalia, even if it's for their own geopolitical interests.

I think Madobe, the leader of Jubaland, highlights Laftagareen’s incompetence. Both had foreign backing and troops in their regions, but unlike Laftagareen, Madobe built his own power base and loyal forces, granting him a degree of autonomy that Laftagareen simply lacks.

There are legitimate arguments to be made, such as the Federal Government pulling more power toward itself unilaterally. But this does not outweigh the existential problem of Ethiopian troops on Somali soil. Gaining more autonomy by removing such a corrupt and vile force, even for a lesser evil, is essential. Anti-Ethiopian sentiments in Somalia are so high that they’ve become toxic. The average Somali, both online and offline, welcomes the removal of Ethiopian troops, especially those within and outside of South West State.
You’re missing one thing in your analysis, apart from the overgeneralised assertion that his clan is mostly AS aligned, what does it say of HSM when he can’t even get the country to unite against the traditional enemy (Ethiopia), doesn’t that speak to his character? The sort of man he is? I’ve seen too much plastic patriotism from HSMs side to last me a lifetime
 
Keeping Somaliland is a priority but recongizing SSc does nothing to prevent that. You think Ethiopia is going to say, oh no they recognized the eastern border as a state. You mix internal politics with independence borders, they have nothing to do with eachother really. It changes nothing except creating a third Darood vote in Somalias politics which is undesirable.

Puntland is an opp under all circumstances. They should get nothing.
Keep calcaaling lil pro
 

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