Twitter feminists debate on whether hijab is empowering for women or a tool for oppression

[Do]

The hijab is never meant to be a thing for men to order but a command from Allah who is the most merciful and just.

Surprisingly this was one of the most productive video i have ever seen when it comes to a feminist and a muslim.

I ain't giving that fugly anti-Xalimo clown a dime by watching his content. Akhas! His speaking voice makes my ears bleed.

 

[Nin123]

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The above tweet from a South Asian feminist went viral with more quotes and comments up till now days later, with some labelling her as Islamophobic (she might very well be) and others who fully agreed with her.

What's interesting is the split between feminists who defended Muslim sisters wearing hijab as it's their right to choose and the other half who firmly pushed back against it, citing that it is just as sexually degrading as revealing clothing as it carries the connotation that female bodies are inherently shameful. Like these two directly opposing takes here.

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Even the quotes of the quotes are on fire, these feminists are having a whole civil war regarding hijab/niqab!

What does these feminists mean by autonomy? Why they always encourage women to be almost completely naked and call it empowerment? Worst is the ones who sleep around and call it sexually liberated

 

[Internet Nomad]

What does these feminists mean by autonomy? Why they always encourage women to be almost completely naked and call it empowerment? Worst is the ones who sleep around and call it sexually liberated

It means free from social and legal constraints to fufill one’s own desires.

The thing about desires its an illusion you can never fulfil them its like drinking out of well but each sip you have to reach deeper into the well until you fall in and all along the water of the well never quench your thirst only increased it.

This is where utilitarianism paired with liberalism leads when god don’t exist nothing is stopping you from chasing your desires.

They also think being able to be barely clothed is empowering and they are able to think for themselves. What actually does the thinking for them is the beauty and fashion industry. There is reason why women in droves are willing to risk their health to keep up with beauty and fashion trends.

You should really watch this 5 min segment from this documentary called the century of self. It really shows the underlying issues that plague consumerism and propaganda.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

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View attachment 335045

The above tweet from a South Asian feminist went viral with more quotes and comments up till now days later, with some labelling her as Islamophobic (she might very well be) and others who fully agreed with her.

What's interesting is the split between feminists who defended Muslim sisters wearing hijab as it's their right to choose and the other half who firmly pushed back against it, citing that it is just as sexually degrading as revealing clothing as it carries the connotation that female bodies are inherently shameful. Like these two directly opposing takes here.

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Spoiler

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Even the quotes of the quotes are on fire, these feminists are having a whole civil war regarding hijab/niqab!

lmao this was inevitable anyway, considering that there are plenty of feminists who are probably exmuslim from the middle east.

 

[Do]

What does these feminists mean by autonomy? Why they always encourage women to be almost completely naked and call it empowerment? Worst is the ones who sleep around and call it sexually liberated

If you want to refute feminism, you need to refer to actual feminist thought and point out the ethical inconsistencies it has with Islam.

Judging feminism by the actions of frivolous white women who submit fully to the male gaze and advocate for sex work is akin to judging Islam by the actions of ISIS.

It's nonsensical.

 

[Nin123]

If you want to refute feminism, you need to refer to actual feminist thought and point out the ethical inconsistencies it has with Islam.

Judging feminism by the actions of frivolous white women who submit fully to the male gaze and advocate for sex work is akin to judging Islam by the actions of ISIS.

It's nonsensical.

I know you were feminist and it explains your thread about Islamic laws.

 

[Nin123]

If you want to refute feminism, you need to refer to actual feminist thought and point out the ethical inconsistencies it has with Islam.

Judging feminism by the actions of frivolous white women who submit fully to the male gaze and advocate for sex work is akin to judging Islam by the actions of ISIS.

It's nonsensical.

ٱلرِّجَالُ قَوَّٰمُونَ عَلَى ٱلنِّسَآءِ بِمَا فَضَّلَ ٱللَّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَىٰ بَعْضٍۢ وَبِمَآ أَنفَقُوا۟ مِنْ أَمْوَٰلِهِمْ ۚ فَٱلصَّـٰلِحَـٰتُ قَـٰنِتَـٰتٌ حَـٰفِظَـٰتٌۭ لِّلْغَيْبِ بِمَا حَفِظَ ٱللَّهُ ۚ وَٱلَّـٰتِى تَخَافُونَ نُشُوزَهُنَّ فَعِظُوهُنَّ وَٱهْجُرُوهُنَّ فِى ٱلْمَضَاجِعِ وَٱضْرِبُوهُنَّ ۖ فَإِنْ أَطَعْنَكُمْ فَلَا تَبْغُوا۟ عَلَيْهِنَّ سَبِيلًا ۗ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ كَانَ عَلِيًّۭا كَبِيرًۭا ٣٤

Men are in charge of women1 by [right of] what Allāh has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allāh would have them guard.2 But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance3 - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them [lightly].4But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allāh is ever Exalted and Grand.

This aya alone destroys feminism.

 

[NordicSomali]

It’s obviously western hypocrisy to claim that you can wear whatever you want and then verbally assault anyone who chooses to wear hijab or any other headcovering.

BUT…

Most girls who dont wear hijab or chose to take it off are heavily criticized and socially sanctioned. So in what way is wearing hijab a choice when there are consequences of not doing that? People underestimate how much the threat of social sanctions guide our behavior, and many are not aware of it.

Can your mother or sister take off her hijab and face no consequences?

 

[Adam Weishaupt]

Was I not right when I said the liberal word 'misogyny' and those that use it, either consciously or subconsciously, are against religion, including Islam, and are mostly Western atheists? It's a hidden word meaning they won't accept anything until women are superior to men or biologically equal.

Google's definition shows this: 'It is generally accepted that misogyny is a consequence of patriarchy (male-dominated society), and the term may be applied to certain individuals as well as larger systems, societies, or cultures.'

Anything other than a matriarchy is misogyny in their eyes.

 

[Omar del Sur]

It really doesn’t matter whether is a cultural practices for the divine. If you’re wearing face mask take it off.

you want people to die from covid???!!!

 

[Adam Weishaupt]

With all due respect, this is a massive oversimplification of feminism. There's a good amount of difference of opinion and many place (in my opinion) rightful blame on women when they contribute to their own oppression.

I used to take an interest in radical feminism several years ago and typically the feminists within that category who take issue with hijab/niqab for its misogynistic origins (in their view) also reject women being overtly sexualised with the normalisation of p0rn/nudity.

They view it as two sides of the same coin that contribute to the objectification of women, as they see the reasoning behind hijab/niqab as one that states that a woman is inherently a sexual object.

Feminism in every form is Kufr, and its followers are desire worshippers. There is no such thing as equality in nature or biology—these heathens won't rest until men are destroyed. Islam gave rights to women and true equality 1400 years before Europe and the West, when women were classed as property and inheritance, like slaves, and debated whether they had souls, even burning them at stakes. While they were busy doing that, women in the Islamic world had rights to own estates and inheritance, and even education, with the oldest university being made by a Muslim woman in North Africa before Europe had any.

 

[Adam Weishaupt]

It really doesn’t matter whether is a cultural practices for the divine. If you’re wearing face mask take it off. You’re in a public setting. There’s no need for you to wear it unless it’s for medical purposes.

Burqa provides no value. As you said in your post: it’s not mandatory. And is not medical either. It’s just cultural clothings that’s originated in the middle east that have been imported into the Islamic world.
Even Egypt (a majority Muslim country) have ban this practice.

Egypt bans niqab at schools, allows 'conditional hijab'

The rather conservative niqab has long been advocated by extremist religious groups and Salafi sheikhs, even though it is known for not being an obligatory dress code by Islam.

www.newarab.com

Egypt is a liberal-democratic country, and its people aren't even religious due to centuries of British colonialism and Western influence. They also have a Christian population. So, it's not surprising that they are banning it.

 

[Omar del Sur]

ٱلرِّجَالُ قَوَّٰمُونَ عَلَى ٱلنِّسَآءِ بِمَا فَضَّلَ ٱللَّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَىٰ بَعْضٍۢ وَبِمَآ أَنفَقُوا۟ مِنْ أَمْوَٰلِهِمْ ۚ فَٱلصَّـٰلِحَـٰتُ قَـٰنِتَـٰتٌ حَـٰفِظَـٰتٌۭ لِّلْغَيْبِ بِمَا حَفِظَ ٱللَّهُ ۚ وَٱلَّـٰتِى تَخَافُونَ نُشُوزَهُنَّ فَعِظُوهُنَّ وَٱهْجُرُوهُنَّ فِى ٱلْمَضَاجِعِ وَٱضْرِبُوهُنَّ ۖ فَإِنْ أَطَعْنَكُمْ فَلَا تَبْغُوا۟ عَلَيْهِنَّ سَبِيلًا ۗ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ كَانَ عَلِيًّۭا كَبِيرًۭا ٣٤

Men are in charge of women1 by [right of] what Allāh has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allāh would have them guard.2 But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance3 - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them [lightly].4But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allāh is ever Exalted and Grand.

This aya alone destroys feminism.

I actually have a book by Amina Wadud who is a "feminist Islam" theorist and I think she actually straight up rejected that verse. I'll have to check.

anyways, feminism is wrong from its very premise. the whole premise of feminism is combatting patriarchy. every single major religion on earth is patriarchal. if you follow feminism and you don't oppose religion, you're not really following feminism all the way.

feminism treats patriarchy as inherently evil. in reality, this is not the proper way to measure things.

a man being the leader in his household... yes, it is patriarchal. the very act by which humans reproduce is patriarchal. women wanting a guy that's taller and makes more money is patriarchal.

in reality, to take being anti-patriarchy as your measuring stick... this is incorrect. we have to oppose oppression of women. but a woman listening to her husband is not oppression of women. however, feminism treats patriarchy as being oppression.

a man being the head of his house... this is normal, this is not oppression. but feminism targets what is healthy and normal! so it's like a disease. feminism will not be satisfied with anything less than the total disruption of normal family life and inherently will wreck the family structure.

"To so heighten one’s sensitivity to sexism presents problems far worse than the black militant’s new awareness of racism: feminists have to question, not just all of Western culture, but the organization of culture itself, and further, even the very organization of nature."

-The Dialectic of Sex: the Case for Feminist Revolution, Shulamith Firestone

so you see what she is saying? she is admitting that feminists will have to oppose nature itself- and she's cool with that! she knows, if you take being anti-patriarchy, you take that as your compass and follow it to its conclusions- you will end up being anti nature itself. and then some types have a problem when we oppose this ideology.

 

[Periplus]

Most girls who dont wear hijab or chose to take it off are heavily criticized and socially sanctioned. So in what way is wearing hijab a choice when there are consequences of not doing that?

Freedom of choice also includes the freedom of others to judge your choice.

If I decide to dye my hair blonde, people also have a choice to comment on my choice.

I don’t see why wearing or not wearing the hijab doesn’t fall under this rule of nature.

 

[Do]

If you want to refute feminism, you need to refer to actual feminist thought and point out the ethical inconsistencies it has with Islam.

Judging feminism by the actions of frivolous white women who submit fully to the male gaze and advocate for sex work is akin to judging Islam by the actions of ISIS.

It's nonsensical.

@Galool

This statement is not my subjective opinion - it's factually correct. Giving me a thumbs down does not make this any less correct.

Both the khawaarij that deviate from authentic Islam (i.e. ISIS and Al-Shabaab) and the recent hijacking of original feminism in celebrity pop culture that equates nudity with female empowerment cannot be used to debunk what they claim to represent.

If you wouldn't like for us to be equated with deviants who misrepresent our religion on top of making us look bad, then we should be reasonable as to not conflate the corporate hijacking of feminist ideals to sell p0rnagraphy to young girls/women with feminism, when the bulk of feminist thought is actually against that.

Cry about that.

 

[Do]

I actually have a book by Amina Wadud who is a "feminist Islam" theorist and I think she actually straight up rejected that verse. I'll have to check.

anyways, feminism is wrong from its very premise. the whole premise of feminism is combatting patriarchy. every single major religion on earth is patriarchal. if you follow feminism and you don't oppose religion, you're not really following feminism all the way.

feminism treats patriarchy as inherently evil. in reality, this is not the proper way to measure things.

a man being the leader in his household... yes, it is patriarchal. the very act by which humans reproduce is patriarchal. women wanting a guy that's taller and makes more money is patriarchal.

in reality, to take being anti-patriarchy as your measuring stick... this is incorrect. we have to oppose oppression of women. but a woman listening to her husband is not oppression of women. however, feminism treats patriarchy as being oppression.

a man being the head of his house... this is normal, this is not oppression. but feminism targets what is healthy and normal! so it's like a disease. feminism will not be satisfied with anything less than the total disruption of normal family life and inherently will wreck the family structure.

"To so heighten one’s sensitivity to sexism presents problems far worse than the black militant’s new awareness of racism: feminists have to question, not just all of Western culture, but the organization of culture itself, and further, even the very organization of nature."

-The Dialectic of Sex: the Case for Feminist Revolution, Shulamith Firestone

so you see what she is saying? she is admitting that feminists will have to oppose nature itself- and she's cool with that! she knows, if you take being anti-patriarchy, you take that as your compass and follow it to its conclusions- you will end up being anti nature itself. and then some types have a problem when we oppose this ideology.

I'm familiar with the name Amina Wadud, I recall there being a controversy in which she allegedly called Prophet Ibrahim (alayhi salam) a "deadbeat dad", in reference to him leaving his wife and son in the desert as he was commanded to by Allah at the time.

She sounds like a weirdo.

 

[Do]

Feminism in every form is Kufr, and its followers are desire worshippers. There is no such thing as equality in nature or biology—these heathens won't rest until men are destroyed. Islam gave rights to women and true equality 1400 years before Europe and the West, when women were classed as property and inheritance, like slaves, and debated whether they had souls, even burning them at stakes. While they were busy doing that, women in the Islamic world had rights to own estates and inheritance, and even education, with the oldest university being made by a Muslim woman in North Africa before Europe had any.

Feminism did not take rise with the intent of "destroying men" niyow.

You think Western women who were being oppressed by the style of patriarchy they were living under were specifically plotting on the other 50% of civilisation more than being concerned for their own survival?

How self-centred do you have to be to interpret them fending off the horrors they went through as a personal attack on you several centuries later?

Even though I don't identify with feminism myself, I don't take kindly to the dismissive way it is handled by some Muslim men who write off our legitimate struggles as women as us blindly following liberal feminism (which the specific branch of feminism that deviates from Islamic thought the most).

It carries the arrogant implication that we're devoid of individual critical thinking and don't have strong enough belief in Islam to sift through the questionable aspects of feminism.

Frankly, I've had enough.

 

[Abdixakim]

Feminism did not take rise with the intent of "destroying men" niyow.

You think Western women who were being oppressed by the style of patriarchy they were living under were specifically plotting on the other 50% of civilisation more than being concerned for their own survival?

How self-centred do you have to be to interpret them fending off the horrors they went through as a personal attack on you several centuries later?

Even though I don't identify with feminism myself, I don't take kindly to the dismissive way it is handled by some Muslim men who write off our legitimate struggles as women as us blindly following liberal feminism (which the specific branch of feminism that deviates from Islamic thought the most).

It carries the arrogant implication that we're devoid of individual critical thinking and don't have strong enough belief in Islam to sift through the questionable aspects of feminism.

Frankly, I've had enough.

The real question is will not being a feminist take some one out of the fold of Islam?

 

[Omar del Sur]

I'm familiar with the name Amina Wadud, I recall there being a controversy in which she allegedly called Prophet Ibrahim (alayhi salam) a "deadbeat dad", in reference to him leaving his wife and son in the desert as he was commanded to by Allah at the time.

She sounds like a weirdo.

Amina Wadud is a kaffir. Alhamdulilaah, I don't think we really have anyone like her on here besides maybe an open ex-Muslim here and there.

And I'm not being takfiri when I say Wadud is a kaffir- she's said multiple kufri things and she even put out a video saying she doesn't believe in jannah and jahannam- I think I have it saved somewhere.

I don't understand her- what does denying the existence of jannah and jahhanam have to do with standing up for women?

Even though I don't identify with feminism myself, I don't take kindly to the dismissive way it is handled by some Muslim men who write off our legitimate struggles as women as us blindly following liberal feminism (which the specific branch of feminism that deviates from Islamic thought the most).

I don't think you're a feminist. Feminism like liberalism branches from philosophy. Notice how all three follow the same method:

Reason > Revelation. Philosophy- and then liberalism and feminism, which are its children; they all follow the method of putting fallible human reasoning in front of infallible revelation, giving precedence to reason.

And Amina Wadud follows this method, as does every famous feminist philosopher I'm aware of. This is why Amina Wadud rejects the existence of jannah and jahannam- obviously, she's taking reason not revelation as her starting point (and this is clear from her book I read).

Okay but do you put reason before revelation? Do you advocate that? I think it would an act of injustice to try to place you with the Amina Waduds and Simone de Beauvoirs of the world. I don't agree with everything you say but those are actual genuine kaffirs and I don't think you as a Muslim should be grouped with them. People should give you your rights and treat you with the respect you're entitled to as a fellow Muslim.

It carries the arrogant implication that we're devoid of individual critical thinking and don't have strong enough belief in Islam to sift through the questionable aspects of feminism.

I do want to say- delving into philosophy is very dangerous and it isn't something to do with feminism or male or female... nor is it even just to do with critical thinking.

When you read philosophy- whether it's Aristotle or bell hooks- you need to be armed to the teeth with authentic Islamic knowledge. If someone doesn't know the Islamic ruling on something- and then they read a philosopher talking about it... they might get pulled in by the philosopher and unwittingly adopt a view that is contrary to the Islamic view.

The thing that people have to do is focus on the Islamic knowledge. Once you have a solid base in Islamic knowledge, then from there you can expand and conquer, making other, lesser fields subject to the superior Islamic knowledge. The Islamic knowledge must come first. Therefore, it is right that Muslims should be warned against delving into philosophy.

 

[Moon-]

Amina Wadud is a kaffir. Alhamdulilaah, I don't think we really have anyone like her on here besides maybe an open ex-Muslim here and there.

And I'm not being takfiri when I say Wadud is a kaffir- she's said multiple kufri things and she even put out a video saying she doesn't believe in jannah and jahannam- I think I have it saved somewhere.

I don't understand her- what does denying the existence of jannah and jahhanam have to do with standing up for women?



I don't think you're a feminist. Feminism like liberalism branches from philosophy. Notice how all three follow the same method:

Reason > Revelation. Philosophy- and then liberalism and feminism, which are its children; they all follow the method of putting fallible human reasoning in front of infallible revelation, giving precedence to reason.

And Amina Wadud follows this method, as does every famous feminist philosopher I'm aware of. This is why Amina Wadud rejects the existence of jannah and jahannam- obviously, she's taking reason not revelation as her starting point (and this is clear from her book I read).

Okay but do you put reason before revelation? Do you advocate that? I think it would an act of injustice to try to place you with the Amina Waduds and Simone de Beauvoirs of the world. I don't agree with everything you say but those are actual genuine kaffirs and I don't think you as a Muslim should be grouped with them. People should give you your rights and treat you with the respect you're entitled to as a fellow Muslim.



I do want to say- delving into philosophy is very dangerous and it isn't something to do with feminism or male or female... nor is it even just to do with critical thinking.

When you read philosophy- whether it's Aristotle or bell hooks- you need to be armed to the teeth with authentic Islamic knowledge. If someone doesn't know the Islamic ruling on something- and then they read a philosopher talking about it... they might get pulled in by the philosopher and unwittingly adopt a view that is contrary to the Islamic view.

The thing that people have to do is focus on the Islamic knowledge. Once you have a solid base in Islamic knowledge, then from there you can expand and conquer, making other, lesser fields subject to the superior Islamic knowledge. The Islamic knowledge must come first. Therefore, it is right that Muslims should be warned against delving into philosophy.

where would you suggest to start