Ukraine War drastically changes demographics in central/eastern EU nations

[Gadhwayne]

Poland has not had a large minority population since the Holocaust. Defeated natives like the Magyars in Rumania are the only so-called minorities in many of these central/eastern nations. They will finally have a large immigrant/refugee population

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[The alchemist]

Do you know the approximate number of Ukrainian refugees at the moment?

 

[El Nino]

The refugees will likely go to rich Western european countries like Germany, Sweden and France.

This war has been a jackpot for immigrant hungry nations like Germany. They will get probably hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of people who are mostly young and working age.

Ukraines demographics has been nuked. Their population will likely flee in the millions and with their high median age and very low fertility their country will depopulate rapidly in the coming decades.

 

[Apollo]

@Gadhwayne

You cannot compare Ukrainians to previous refugees. They are just regular Europeans. It is like somebody moving from Austria to Germany, same shit.

@Guddoomiye

They won't move to Western Europe en masse. Poland, Czechia, Slovakia are all good enough for them and the same culture. Those aforementioned countries are no longer poor.

 

[Gadhwayne]

You cannot compare Ukrainians to previous refugees. They are just regular Europeans. It is like somebody moving from Austria to Germany, same shit.

This sounds racist and I disagree. This is like saying BlackAfrican immigrants in South Africa will be like regular Black natives we dont need to go into Zulus and other native Blacks lynching Soomalis and Im not saying that level violence will happen in Europe but the same tribal/ethnic agitations are likely going to apply

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They won't move to Western Europe en masse. Poland, Czechia, Slovakia are all good enough for them and the same culture. Those aforementioned countries are no longer poor.

If this happens there wont be White or european identity groups like the EDL/BNP but instead local/ethnic nationalism/tribalist agitations between immigrant Ukranianians and host tribes/nations

 

[Apollo]

This sounds racist and I disagree. This is like saying BlackAfrican immigrants in South Africa will be like regular Black natives we dont need to go into Zulus and other native Blacks lynching Soomalis and Im not saying that level violence will happen in Europe but the same tribal/ethnic agitations are likely going to apply

Cultural, religious, linguistic, and racial differences is much larger between Somalis and local South Africans.

It is more like a Zimbabwean moving to South Africa.

 

[Gadhwayne]

Cultural, religious, linguistic, and racial differences is much larger between Somalis and local South Africans.

It is more like a Zimbabwean moving to South Africa.

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And that is based on religion/culture/identify. A Somaali Muslim would not fare better than a Gosha/Baantu Muslim. The other factor local dynamics. A neutral African might get along better with a Croat nationalists than would a Serb supremacist who calls Croats fascist brainwashedSerbs. I would expect fact a BlackMuslim be even more welcome than than the Serb expansionist

The bottom line is tribalism and ethnic national identities can facilitate the same kinds of tensions attributed to racialized reactions against nonEuropean immigrants in western Europe I actually think these secular reactionaries are motivated not by race but by religious identity and percieved clash between Christendom vs a so-called Islamdom

 

[Enter]

Ukrainians are viewed in Poland the same way Poles are viewed in Western Europe. They have been migrating there for work for years. Some poles don't like them and look down on them, but in the face of Russian aggression, they're all supportive right now.

It could possibly end up like how Syrians were embraced in Turkey, but when the hysteria ended, Turks developed a real hate-boner for them.

I do think the EU and the US are going to fiscally accommodate Poland and neighbouring states for their patronage.

 

[reer]

Cultural, religious, linguistic, and racial differences is much larger between Somalis and local South Africans.

It is more like a Zimbabwean moving to South Africa.

fair point. but also usa and their nato allies destroyed iraq and libya. a country like poland refusing iraqi refugees is straight up xaqdarro.

 

[reer]

@Gadhwayne

You cannot compare Ukrainians to previous refugees. They are just regular Europeans. It is like somebody moving from Austria to Germany, same shit.

@Guddoomiye

They won't move to Western Europe en masse. Poland, Czechia, Slovakia are all good enough for them and the same culture. Those aforementioned countries are no longer poor.

romania approx 19 million. hungary slovakia moldova each under 10 million. poland 37 million. meanwhile ukraine is over 40 million. they would obviously prefer czechia slovakia poland. op has point it could create some refugee tensions because of sheer number.

 

[𐒈𐒈𐒆𐒍]

Ukrainians biggest hero who's ideology their nationalism is based on S. Bandera was responsible for the huge genocide on poles and romanians during WW2. The influx of west ukrainian (banderytes) refugees into Poland/Romanian might not be so welcomed.

 

[SwedishAbdi96]

Ukrainians are viewed in Poland the same way Poles are viewed in Western Europe. They have been migrating there for work for years. Some poles don't like them and look down on them, but in the face of Russian aggression, they're all supportive right now.

It could possibly end up like how Syrians were embraced in Turkey, but when the hysteria ended, Turks developed a real hate-boner for them.

I do think the EU and the US are going to fiscally accommodate Poland and

This sounds racist and I disagree. This is like saying BlackAfrican immigrants in South Africa will be like regular Black natives we dont need to go into Zulus and other native Blacks lynching Soomalis and Im not saying that level violence will happen in Europe but the same tribal/ethnic agitations are likely going to apply

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If this happens there wont be White or european identity groups like the EDL/BNP but instead local/ethnic nationalism/tribalist agitations between immigrant Ukranianians and host tribes/nations

Ukranians and Poles are exactly the same ethnic group (White Europeans ) and race (Caucasians).
They can get along without main problems, it's like saying an Oromo immigrant in Djibouti will have the same treatment of a pure hawiye Somali immigrant from Mogadishu. And there is 0 racism in that, just natural human tribalistic brain at work.

 

[sunoctober8]

The refugees will likely go to rich Western european countries like Germany, Sweden and France.

This war has been a jackpot for immigrant hungry nations like Germany. They will get probably hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of people who are mostly young and working age.

Ukraines demographics has been nuked. Their population will likely flee in the millions and with their high median age and very low fertility their country will depopulate rapidly in the coming decades.

Also it's their favourite type of immigrant blond white skin so they can blend easily with the ethnic Germans , also they can still have lots of whites in Germany it's a win win for the octoberfest bastards .

 

[Gadhwayne]

Neighboring ethnicities can have more tensions/conflicts among each other than they do with refugees from afar. The refugee from far away land tend to be humble guests compared to the neighbor refugee. This fact can trump the other fact about being regular Europeans which I also disagree with because I think Europeaness/Whiteness is more of an identity and it is stronger in areas where there nonEuropeans living next to Europeans i.e. England/Americas/France In areas such as Poland/Transylvania, local Whiteness is trumped by stong forms of local tribal identities such Polishness/Magyarness etc. and localism/tribalism/nationalism can be better at causing tensions than White separatist/nationalist anti immigrant tensions

@Apollo regular europeaness/whiteness gets trumped by traditional tribalism/nationalism

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[Apollo]

@Gadhwayne

Only poor neighbors.

Middle income countries don't really hate their neighbors. Especially when there is no religious difference.

 

[Gadhwayne]

@Gadhwayne

Only poor neighbors.

Middle income countries don't really hate their neighbors. Especially when there is no religious difference.

There is actually a long history Catholic vs Orthodox conflicts and the less religious Poles/Czech/Magyars/Ukrainians the more their universalist/nontribalist religious identity gets filled by ethnonationalist identities

 

[Apollo]

There is actually a long history Catholic vs Orthodox conflicts and the less religious Poles/Czech/Magyars/Ukrainians the more their universalist/nontribalist religious identity gets filled by ethnonationalist identities

Bro your Americanness is coming out here.

Europeans have heavily secularized, even in the supposedly solidly religious countries in Europe.

The only identity they nowadays still have left are their national identities, the identity of being a European or a Westerner, and then way down is their religious identity.

Only the former Yugoslav countries care a lot about religion and nationality. The other ones don't as much.

 

[reer]

Bro your Americanness is coming out here.

Europeans have heavily secularized, even in the supposedly solidly religious countries in Europe.

The only identity they nowadays still have left are their national identities, the identity of being a European or a Westerner, and then way down is their religious identity.

Only the former Yugoslav countries care a lot about religion and nationality. The other ones don't as much.

liberal democracies + the ussr and its satellites have killed religiousness in majority of europe.

 

[Apollo]

liberal democracies + the ussr and its satellites have killed religiousness in majority of europe.

In Russia, Christian Orthodoxy is resurging and is actively promoted by Putin. Most likely to boost their fertility rates.

Atheism causes very low fertility rates.

 

[Gadhwayne]

The only identity they nowadays still have left are their national identities

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That was part of my point their sting national identies have weaved the old protestant vs catholic vs orthodox history into nationalist struggles

the identity of being a European or a Westerner

The other part of my point: racial/western identities dont exist in racially homogenous nations like Poland/Ukraine. This is why I was warding you off from the American/English expectation that Ukrainians will necessarily be more welcome as regular Europeans as opposed to the hypothetical humble Pashtun refugee who lacks the long history of tribal/national conflicts that Ukrainians bring with them