I agree a women back home not defending or caring abt her tribe is like being a traitor . All the women back home have either uncles, husbands, sons and cousins who fight in these wars why do we expect them not to be tribal when their family is put at risk and even innocent families can be killed bec of these clashes. I’m not defending them but it’s very difficult for these people to stop their mentality it’s a never ending cycle
We are not involved! Let’s get to building
- Thread starter Devilsadvocate
- Start date
But they already did broke away back in 2023. I don't see how their recent attack on Ceerigaabo was done for any political reason. Seemed like a blatant land grab to me.
“All politics is identity politics” as Ezra Klein/Yglesias say and our main identity is our clan.I choose to ignore ''clan-talk'' or disavow it because i truly come to find it to be a nonsense.
It's just discursive narratives around someones clan, both simplifying peoples goals and motives and attributing political loyalties and collective behavior through someones clan background, divorced from the reality.
It is also divorced from what the function of what clan really is, which is just a socio-economic support vehicle not a political mobilization vehicle. So the most important thing should be about putting the focus on how to improve peoples livelihoods and how to deliver services.
You see even researchers who even looked into this clan talk , begun to see it for what it is
Political Identity as Temporal Collapse: Ethiopian Federalism and Contested Ogaden Histories
Abstract. Since the 1980s, analyses of African political identities have emphasized identity manipulation as a governance tool. In the Somali Horn of Africacademic.oup.com
Ya'll can tag people with this or that clan and do ''FKD'' as yall like to call it which is essentially professional BS'ing, while the rest of us will focus on bread and butter policy building and socio-economic stuff that actually matters and reflects reality.
Although its reductive to boil a politicians every move to clan, the truly divorced from reality viewpoint is that clan is “meant as a socioeconomic vehicle”, when its been our form of political order for millenia.
Like all social constructs clan exists with the meaning we ascribe to it, and for +30 years in a row its been applied overtly as a political grouping. This is why you dont take a paper on Ethiopian-Somalis relationship to eachother/inter-ethnically and try applying it to Somalia 1:1 which exists in a completely different context. This paper also largely revolves around Iley and unnatural political plants anyways who are deeply unpopular for Ogadens and others i’d hardly consider this an authoritative reference on who supports what especially considering its authors were NON-Somali aswell. The basis for the authors opinions is 60 interviews/conversations…
Imagine thinking viewing politics through clan came from whitey. The author also has a theory that Reer Cabdille wasnt relevant to Ogadens because a Tolomoge told him so
Yet for some reason they arent, nor is there a central body legitimately seen as a national army. I wonder why?
National army in question choosing Kenyan captivity instead of handing arms to JL.
You don’t know what you’re talking about. idoor kept targeting SSC civilians that’s what kicked of the conflict. One things for certain though Cerigabo won’t see peace anytime soon
Yes I'm aware of why the conflict started but c'mon, they did an unprovoked attack when there has been a military stalemate for over a year. Ceerigaabo has been peaceful up until then.
You expect reer sool to keep quiet while our people keep getting targeted?
That city is segregated asf it was never that peaceful to begin with it was already brewing.
Self defense is perfectly understandable but Ceerigaabo is in Sanaag.
Ceerigaabo is our land too ,qoloma taxay warya? I don’t like the whole clueless act you got going on
Why are you hiding your qabil lolSo its a tribal conflict like I said
“All politics is identity politics” as Ezra Klein/Yglesias say and our main identity is our clan.
Although its reductive to boil a politicians every move to clan, the truly divorced from reality viewpoint is that clan is “meant as a socioeconomic vehicle”, when its been our form of political order for millenia.
Like all social constructs clan exists with the meaning we ascribe to it, and for +30 years in a row its been applied overtly as a political grouping. This is why you dont take a paper on Ethiopian-Somalis relationship to eachother/inter-ethnically and try applying it to Somalia 1:1 which exists in a completely different context. This paper also largely revolves around Iley and unnatural political plants anyways who are deeply unpopular for Ogadens and others i’d hardly consider this an authoritative reference on who supports what especially considering its authors were NON-Somali aswell. The basis for the authors opinions is 60 interviews/conversations…
Imagine thinking viewing politics through clan came from whitey. The author also has a theory that Reer Cabdille wasnt relevant to Ogadens because a Tolomoge told him so
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View attachment 351354
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Yet for some reason they arent, nor is there a central body legitimately seen as a national army. I wonder why?
National army in question choosing Kenyan captivity instead of handing arms to JL.
View attachment 351352
I.M Lewis has been refuted by most Academics that research Somalia who personally disagree with him and even see how his information on Somalis contradict itself.
Somali society operates beyond the narrow construct clanhood.
''First, scholars who object to the Lewisian overemphasis on clan can point to extensive scholarship—including Lewis’s own—showing that there existed, historically, important principles of Somali sociopolitical organization and collective identity other than clan. For example, in the precolonial era, Somalis lived in polities and communities of various kinds, not just in ones structured by kinship organization or clan''
I. M. Lewis and Somali Clanship: A Critique
https://wardheernews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Kapteijns.I.M.Lewis-and-Somali-Clanship.2011.pdf
Also imagine defending a man who has been in office continuesly, without bringing any real changes but also deals in illegal activity and trying to boil down all the objections to his clan identity.
Heck i wouldn't even want to see HSM and his crew stay in their post, i want an election the transforms and removes them all. InshaAllah.
Big majority of their constituents reside in Ceerigabo, so it's connected to what began in 2023 and what sparked it was the bill that was pushed by a paid American congressman to recognize Somaliland which they object to it.
Thats exactly whats expected. The most egregious offenders of qabyalad whether through bias or malicious intent want you to close your eyes to qabiil.
Wolves in sheep clothing. I remember the landers saying its about borders not clan now you see the same users in the Dacawalay thread doing a 180.
I never referenced IM lewis lol all you did was reference where Lidwein wrote what was being referenced in the paper. Lazy work, in your own post she establishes the normative scholarly opinion...
and
The real change is from warlords in Kismayo famously stealing peoples food off their stoves to now building roads, drainage, schools, and water infrastructure with a transparent land registry ending disputes and a more disciplined ordered force then the SNA.
I've openly spoken on here about what i'd want to see and who regarding JL president but as Lincoln campaigned in the civil war "Don't swap horses in the middle of the stream".
It is mentioned and referenced in this screenshot that you shared from what i linked.
Imagine thinking viewing politics through clan came from whitey.
Lidwein Kaptejin is refrencing the work of Somali Scholars such as Abdi Samatar, Ahmed Samatar , Ahmed Sheikh. Ibrahim and others who were the first ones to actually refute and call out the claims Lewis is making about how Somali political identity and culture rests on clan.
It's nonsense.
So it's ironic that you say ''imagine thinking viewing politics through clan came from white''. When that exact dribble you are peddling that that equates clan identity to political identity came from the white man and distorts the real reality, tradition and function of clan.
And I'm Lewis did the exact same crap that you are doing ,that you are tagging me with a clan to assume that my position is me unjustily supporting something the SNA is doing out of clan allegiance to HSM or FGS, whom i don't even support to stay in office either or like.
People of Gedo and Kismayo need to be able to chose their political leaders and be included in an inclusive political process outside of clanhood, the SNA is was not fighting to take over and decide for them but make them comply to that process.
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You have to contend with your reference saying this is an idea in "infancy" and non-normative before you try and canonize it. What she credits as Lewisian is seen as natural and obvious to most and is impossible to substantiate that IM created it.
The irony of your accusation is that you yourself juxtaposed my support of Madoobe to your support/link to HSM. There is no national army with the authority or capability to compulse anyone.
- HSM sent an army of mainly Hawiyes and other yamyam to JL on election night
- HSM gave a speech throwing personal insults aswell as speaking on clan demographics
- The Ogaden chiefs and politicians rallied behind Madoobe
- The invaders were given 15 days to return to Xamar
- They were then swiftly disarmed and undressed
You have to contend with your reference saying this is an idea in "infancy" and non-normative before you try and canonize it. What she credits as Lewisian is seen as natural and obvious to most and is impossible to substantiate that IM created it.
The irony of your accusation is that you yourself juxtaposed my support of Madoobe to your support/link to HSM. There is no national army with the authority or capability to compulse anyone.
You trying to obfuscate this timeline is why I posted in this childish thread. If HSM is concerned with clan appointments and free elections why hasnt he established that in his own yard? The most corrupt country in the world and your trying to feed people this garbage
- HSM sent an army of mainly Hawiyes and other yamyam to JL on election night
- HSM gave a speech throwing personal insults aswell as speaking on clan demographics
- The Ogaden chiefs and politicians rallied behind Madoobe
- The invaders were given 15 days to return to Xamar
- They were then swiftly disarmed and undressed
Somalis Scholars layed out the reality of how the real political dynamics of Somali society acts. I'M Lewis borrows from orientalist colonial tradition and is as what Samatar said him and others like you are ''sectarian entrepreneurs that profit from un-civic manipulations of normal but benign human differences''
1. Somali National Army is multi-clan based, it's not an army composed of only Hawiye.
2. Madobe doesn't actually get unanimous support from the Ogaden clan or the elders believe it or not, it's often conditional if the locals support him or not. Many don't.
He constantly loses their support and gets in disputes and disagreements with them as we have seen in the past.
Madobe fights rivals on land, online ahead of Jubbaland polls
The election in the Somalia state of Jubbaland where Sheikh Ahmed Islam Madobe wants to retain the presidency is turning into a battle on land and online.
This actually proves to show what was said earlier ''genealogical relatedness does not equate to political loyalty''
3. The Federal government and others criticized him barring other groups from the political processes and of marginalization.
4. How can a government invade it's own territory? Are you listening to yourself? All that proves is how Madobe rejects the federal mandate.
5. The Federal government also accussed Madobe of being unable to address the al-Shabaab menace in the region. Which is true.
He is establishing local 2025 and federal/presidential elections 2026. Preparations for the local elections is happening in 2025
Somalia initiates government move toward direct elections
‘Job starts now and it is the responsibility of the current regime to fulfill their promises to ensure that the next election will be direct,’ political analyst tells Anadolu - Anadolu Ajansı
www.aa.com.tr
Jubbaland /Madobe who wants to sustain clan-based politics is more or equally corrupt as FGS btw and the move towards direct elections and multi-party system is meant to end that and transition Somalia out of it.
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