And Darood claim to be from a arab sheikh but have the most waaq names out of all the clansFunny That Dir Clan Claim To Be Oldest But Have No Waaq In Them
Were Somalis Pagans before Islam or did we have a history of following other Abrahamic faiths?
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He Probably Was A Somali From Sanaag Who Went To Yemen For A Bit But Missed The Uunsi Then Came BackAnd Darood claim to be from a arab sheikh but have the most waaq names out of all the clans
Nah Iām Darood myself and donāt believe it bro if you look at the story it is the exact same story as nabi musa. And all the cushites share this story of a man on a tree but arabized for us Somalis. So I think cushites especially Somalis are the people of musa a.s who lead astrayHe Probably Was A Somali From Sanaag Who Went To Yemen For A Bit But Missed The Uunsi Then Came Back
Glad to see this as it is important to the Bantu issues in Somalia. "Zanj" just meant African. Prior to the Omanis the VAST majority of slaves sold into Arabia, etc, came from Ethiopia and the Sudan. The Bantu slave trade north only began about 1800 and was only a big deal after the Omanis moved to Zanzibar 1832-1840.
Check the Arab sources. The Zanj revolt did not involve the Bantus.
Apollo
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I have checked the genetics of modern-day Afro-Arabs, the offspring of the Arab slave trade.
Almost always, Southeast African predominates. It is extremely uncommon to find a modern day Afro-Arab in the Middle East with more Nilotic or more Omotic ancestry than Bantu ancestry.
Some time ago I posted a study about a mysterious woman with a medical condition that made her very hairy living in the forests of Abkhazia (former Ottoman territory). She was indistinguishable from the Luhya (a Kenyan Bantu population).
You are just being silly.
Your link:
" Here again, Zana shows ancestry components from the eastern (eg, Dinka) and western (eg, Yoruba) African groups, with no significant genetic contribution from southern, northern, and central African populations. We were unable, however, to resolve whether she was (a) an individual derived from admixture between a Dinka-like and Yoruba-like population (purple and plink components in Figure 3A) or (b) originated solely from eastern African groups such as Luhya and Luo."
"This suggests that her presence in the region may have been linked to the Ottoman Empire slave trade to Istanbul, that was one of the main hubs for the slave trade in the region in the 19th century. Moreover, Zana's largely eastern African ancestry is consistent with the historical records indicating that most of the African slaves in the Ottoman Empire originated around areas of the African Great Lakes and present-day Sudan."
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The Omanis transported plenty of Bantus from the Great Lakes region after 1800 to account for the Bantu parentage you are seeing.
Zana died in 1890, which means she could easily have been transported by the Omanis. According to your link she was as close genetically to the Dinka and Hadza as she was to the Luo and Luhya, so she might have been only partly, or not at all Bantu. In any case, she could not have been part of the Zanj revolt.
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Apollo
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No she isn't similar to the Hadza at all. Open the damn PCA chart. Almost nobody is. Moreover, exported slaves never came from hunter-gatherer groups, they always came from agricultural populations. Primarily Bantus.
Secondarily, she was clearly not a South Sudanese. On global PCA charts, the South Sudanese and Southeast African Bantus can appear similar, but more precise intra-African analyses can easily distinguish them. At the PCA she clusters exactly where the Luhya cluster. Most likely she was a Kenyan or Tanzanian Bantu.
Pretty much every Afro-Arab in Arabia got more Bantu ancestry than any other African component. Even on 23andMe, it is more common for a Yemeni or Omani to score Southeast African (Bantu) than he or she is to score even a measly 0.2% Somali.
Open the chart and put your glasses on. In chart "A" Zana is equadistant between Luhya and Dinka, with Hadza and Luo as the next groups. Dinka is not Bantu. In chart "B" Zana is roughly 15 points from the Kenya Bantus.
The authors also compare Zana to the Yoruba, which is also not Bantu. They say she has no southern or central African component.
What do Yemenis, Omanis and Somalis have to do with this?
You are making unwarranted assumptions.
Apollo
VIP
Stop embarrassing yourself. This reminds me of your stupidity last time you proclaimed haplogroup A was all Khoisan. Now you are doing similar dumbfuckery.
She clusters exactly with the Luhya. She was either a Bantu speaker or a Luo (language shifted former Bantus).
Stop embarrassing yourself. This reminds me of your stupidity last time you proclaimed haplogroup A was all Khoisan. Now you are doing similar dumbfuckery.
She clusters exactly with the Luhya. She was either a Bantu speaker or a Luo (language shifted former Bantus).
Stop cherry picking! (notice Zana's bar at the top left of your PCA, the second PCA and the charts)
The authors were not happy with the accuracy of either PCA or the charts, so they went on:
"To estimate Zana's ancestry proportion more accurately, we conducted the admixture analysis in āsupervisedā mode based on 13 African populations (Figure 3B) representing most of the diversity of human populations in Africa. Even though the results confirm Zana's largely eastern (~66%) African origin, she also displayed significant levels of western African (~34%) genetic component. To further visualise Zana's genetic relationship with the African populations, we applied additional dimensionality reduction using UMAP with only eastern, central, and western African groups, which reveals Zana's genetic proximity with eastern African populations such as Luo and Luhya (Figure 3C). This is also supported by the maximum likelihood analysis based on TreeMix (Figure 4A).
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If the authors had found Zana was Luhya they would have said so, but they didn't. They left her halfway between Luhya and Dinka with one-third West African non Bantu. She is still 15 points off Kenya Bantu on the Neanderthal chart.
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Stop cherry picking! (notice Zana's bar at the top left of your PCA, the second PCA and the charts)
The authors were not happy with the accuracy of either PCA or the charts, so they went on:
"To estimate Zana's ancestry proportion more accurately, we conducted the admixture analysis in āsupervisedā mode based on 13 African populations (Figure 3B) representing most of the diversity of human populations in Africa. Even though the results confirm Zana's largely eastern (~66%) African origin, she also displayed significant levels of western African (~34%) genetic component. To further visualise Zana's genetic relationship with the African populations, we applied additional dimensionality reduction using UMAP with only eastern, central, and western African groups, which reveals Zana's genetic proximity with eastern African populations such as Luo and Luhya (Figure 3C). This is also supported by the maximum likelihood analysis based on TreeMix (Figure 4A).
"
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If the authors had found Zana was Luhya they would have said so, but they didn't. They left her halfway between Luhya and Dinka with one-third West African non Bantu. She is still 15 points off Kenya Bantu on the Neanderthal chart.
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I am hardly embarrassed. You are still ignoring the Koisan language family, which is generally accepted and makes the Hadza and Sandawe non-isolates. The Koisan are absolutely NOT limited to South Africa as you have again recently claimed.. They are probably not even originally from there.
The First Modern Human Dispersals across Africa
The emergence of more refined chronologies for climate change and archaeology in prehistoric Africa, and for the evolution of human mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), now make it feasible to test more sophisticated models of early modern human dispersals suggested by mtDNA distributions. Here we have...
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Uncovering one of humankindās most ancient lineages
Scientists have successfully discovered one of modern humans' ancient lineages through the sequencing of genes of the Southern African Khoisan tribespeople. This is the first time that the history of humankind populations has been analyzed and matched to Earth's climatic conditions over the last...
www.sciencedaily.com
"The team also found that there are individuals of the Khoisan population whose ancestors did not interbreed with any of the other ethnic groups for the last 150,000 years and that Khoisan was the majority group of living humans for most of that time until about 20,000 years ago."
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Haplogroup A
"There are terminological difficulties,[clarification needed] but as "haplogroup A" has come to mean "the foundational haplogroup" (viz. of contemporary human population), haplogroup A is not defined by any mutation but refers to any haplogroup which is not descended from the haplogroup BT, i.e. defined by the absence of the defining mutation of that group (M91). By this definition, haplogroup A includes all mutations that took place between the Y-MRCA (estimated at some 270 kya) and the mutation defining haplogroup BT (estimated at some 140ā150 kya,[8] including any extant subclades that may yet to be discovered.
'Bearers of haplogroup A (i.e. absence of the defining mutation of haplogroup BT) have been found in Southern Africa's hunter-gatherer inhabited areas, especially among the San people. In addition, the most basal mitochondrial DNA L0 lineages are also largely restricted to the San. However, the A lineages of Southern Africa are sub-clades of A lineages found in other parts of Africa, suggesting that A sub-haplogroups arrived in Southern Africa from elsewhere.[9]
'The two most basal lineages of haplogroup A, A0 and A1 (prior to the announcement of the discovery of haplogroup A00 in 2013), have been detected in West Africa, Northwest Africa and Central Africa. Cruciani et al. (2011) suggest that these lineages may have emerged somewhere in between Central and Northwest Africa.[10] Scozzari et al. (2012) also supported "the hypothesis of an origin in the north-western quadrant of the African continent for the A1b [ i.e. A0 ] haplogroup".[11]
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"The clade has also been observed at notable frequencies in certain populations in Ethiopia, as well as some Pygmy groups in Central Africa, and less commonly NigerāCongo speakers, who largely belong to the E1b1a clade. Haplogroup E in general is believed to have originated in Northeast Africa,[16] and was later introduced to West Africa from where it spread around 5,000 years ago to Central, Southern and Southeastern Africa with the Bantu expansion.[17][18] According to Wood et al. (2005) and Rosa et al. (2007), such relatively recent population movements from West Africa changed the pre-existing population Y chromosomal diversity in Central, Southern and Southeastern Africa, replacing the previous haplogroups in these areas with the now dominant E1b1a lineages. Traces of ancestral inhabitants, however, can be observed today in these regions via the presence of the Y DNA haplogroups A-M91 and B-M60 that are common in certain relict populations, such as the Mbuti Pygmies and the Khoisan.[19][20][21]"
Haplogroup A frequencies
In a composite sample of 3551 African men, Haplogroup A had a frequency of 5.4%.[29] The highest frequencies of haplogroup A have been reported among the Khoisan of Southern Africa, Beta Israel, and Nilo-Saharans from Sudan."
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Can they be Koisan or part Koisan at less than 100%? It looks to me like the original population spread out to the far corners and that it is a mistake to say only the San of South Africa are the real deal. Adam and Eve had kids. And the kids mutated and had kids. We all go back to AOO-T, and we are all modern humans. It's just as time passes there are more mutations and more mixed marriages so that individual groups become less closely related. It's something we have to accept.
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"The clade has also been observed at notable frequencies in certain populations in Ethiopia, as well as some Pygmy groups in Central Africa, and less commonly NigerāCongo speakers, who largely belong to the E1b1a clade. Haplogroup E in general is believed to have originated in Northeast Africa,[16] and was later introduced to West Africa from where it spread around 5,000 years ago to Central, Southern and Southeastern Africa with the Bantu expansion.[17][18] According to Wood et al. (2005) and Rosa et al. (2007), such relatively recent population movements from West Africa changed the pre-existing population Y chromosomal diversity in Central, Southern and Southeastern Africa, replacing the previous haplogroups in these areas with the now dominant E1b1a lineages. Traces of ancestral inhabitants, however, can be observed today in these regions via the presence of the Y DNA haplogroups A-M91 and B-M60 that are common in certain relict populations, such as the Mbuti Pygmies and the Khoisan.[19][20][21]"
Haplogroup A frequencies
| Africa | ||
| Study population | Freq. (in %) | |
| [20] | Tsumkwe San (Namibia) | 66% |
| [20] | Nama (Namibia) | 64 |
| [22] | Dinka (Sudan) | 62 |
| [22] | Shilluk (Sudan) | 53 |
| [22] | Nuba (Sudan) | 46 |
| [23] | Khoisan | 44 |
| [24][25] | Ethiopian Jews | 41 |
| [20][24] | !Kung/Sekele | ~40 |
| [22] | Borgu (Sudan) | 35 |
| [22] | Nuer (Sudan) | 33 |
| [22] | Fur (Sudan) | 31 |
| [20] | Maasai (Kenya) | 27 |
| [26] | Nara (Eritrea) | 20 |
| [22] | Masalit (Sudan) | 19 |
| [20][27] | Amhara (Ethiopia) | ~16 |
| [23] | Ethiopians | 14 |
| [28] | Bantu (Kenya) | 14 |
| [20] | Mandara (Cameroon) | 14 |
| [22] | Hausa (Sudan) | 13 |
| [24] | Khwe (South Africa) | 12 |
| [24] | Fulbe (Cameroon) | 12 |
| [20] | Dama (Namibia) | 11 |
| [27] | Oromo (Ethiopia) | 10 |
| [26] | Kunama (Eritrea) | 10 |
| [20] | South Semitic (Ethiopia) | 10 |
| [28] | Egyptians) | 3 |
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Can they be Koisan or part Koisan at less than 100%? It looks to me like the original population spread out to the far corners and that it is a mistake to say only the San of South Africa are the real deal. Adam and Eve had kids. And the kids mutated and had kids. We all go back to AOO-T, and we are all modern humans. It's just as time passes there are more mutations and more mixed marriages so that individual groups become less closely related. It's something we have to accept.
Apollo
VIP
It is not Khoisan, dumbass. It is an over hundred thousand year old lineage with many different sub-lineages which have nothing to do with each other and have diverged from each other in isolation for tens of thousands of years.
Stop derailing this thread with genetics. It is not about genetics nor do you even have the competency to discuss such matters.
Daroods kept their pre islamic names so we have siwaaqroon, cabudwaaq, and jidwaaq. We are native Somalis no matter how ina samaales spin it.Funny That Dir Clan Claim To Be Oldest But Have No Waaq In Them
I suppose the Bantus and Zana were about religion?
Calling me an incompetent dumbass is a poor substitute for a rational response to my objections, supported as they are by academic research.
I have offered to move the offending material.
You need to get past your opinions being taken as hadith.
Apollo
VIP
Kindly stop quoting me on the topic of genetics. I am not even interested in discussing it with you.
1)Zanj didn't just mean African, it was a specific geographic term for the south east African coast inhabited by Bantus, infact somalis were often called barbar to distinguish them from the zanj. Of course sometimes the Word zanj was used to include all black people especially in later times but there are many Arab sources who distinguish habash, barbar and zanj when talking about Africa.
2) while it's true that most african slaves cane from Ethiopia and Sudan it's also true that Arabs started raiding the internal areas of east Africa for slaves, many Bantus were captured and brought to arabia. The recent review of the Zanj revolt doesn't deny that the Zanj were involved but tries to paint it as a rebellion of Arabs, enslaved Zanj and free Zanj
Apollo
VIP
@Som
Originally the term Zanj comes from the word Azania, which is either a South Cushitic or Greek origin word for the area starting from roughly Kismayo to Tanzania.
Earliest Greek descriptions of that place didn't make much of an ethnic distinction from more northern areas, later on however as the Bantu expansion became more prominent it started to mean either Bantu or Swahili more or less in Omani Arabic.
Originally the term Zanj comes from the word Azania, which is either a South Cushitic or Greek origin word for the area starting from roughly Kismayo to Tanzania.
Earliest Greek descriptions of that place didn't make much of an ethnic distinction from more northern areas, later on however as the Bantu expansion became more prominent it started to mean either Bantu or Swahili more or less in Omani Arabic.
Yes exactly. Arabs geographers had some kind of awareness of the differences between African people's and had different stereotypes (both positive and negative) about them. For example ibn Khaldun wrote extremely racist stuff against the Zanj but had a very neutral or even positive view of the Muslim rulers of Mali Empire. In his mind Zanj was a specific type of people within Africa and didn't mean all black people and he understood the difference just like he understood how Mediterranean Europeans were different from Slavs, Germans etc.
Even within the Zanj there was a distinction between the Muslim swahilis who enjoyed a high social status and the non Muslims from the interior
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