What is on your mind right now?

[Omar del Sur]

anyways, the fact that you @Periplus have to resort to dusting the cobwebs off Maoist China and the USSR just illustrates that I'm right.... there are plenty of examples of leftism that are around today... it's not like German National Socialism where they got removed from power in the 40's... leftism is still around... so why the need to dig way into the past? the USSR ceased to exist thirty years ago....

so obviously what I said is true. and anyone with the slightest familiarity with the USSR knows that that style of leftism is pretty much extinct. I was referring to modern leftism. we have leftism all over the place. Biden, the dictator of Canada, that woman who runs.... one of those Nordic countries... the one who likes to party.... anyways, we have tons and tons of modern examples and you have to dig up the fossils of Mao and the Soviets

 

[Periplus]

Didn't Mao implement the one-child thing?

Anyways... the USSR under Stalin banned abortion and made homoism a capital offense. It was very conservative in certain respects.

Anyways, USSR and Mao Zedong style of leftism is a almost entirely a thing of the past.

My post was referring to the modern style of leftism. Look at countries like Sweden. It is feminist Western countries (as well as places like South Korea) that have low fertility rates, it is religious conservative countries that have high fertility rates.

This is just facts. If you want to be hostile to truth and facts, it's your problem.

Mao didn’t introduce the one-child policy, in fact he encouraged more kids.

You can google this.

Also, don’t try shift the goalposts. You said the more extreme left a country becomes, so I provided you the most extreme left countries.

Aren’t you also the person that accuses every left-wing government of being communists??

Funny how you’re suddenly saying communism isn’t left-wing now….

 

[Omar del Sur]

Mao didn’t introduce the one-child policy, in fact he encouraged more kids.

You can google this.

Also, don’t try shift the goalposts. You said the more extreme left a country becomes, so I provided you the most extreme left countries.

Aren’t you also the person that accuses every left-wing government of being communists??

Funny how you’re suddenly saying communism isn’t left-wing now….

As far as people, I think I'm the most knowledgeable of the intended meaning behind my words. I was referring to modern leftism that is still alive and relevant, I wasn't referring to USSR-style leftism that is pretty much extinct.

Also, if we drew a line and on end we marked "pure rightism," and on the other end we marked "pure leftism," I don't believe "pure leftism" would be the USSR.

Stalin deviated from Marxism in a number of ways. The Soviet Union after Lenin died didn't follow pure Marxism. But anyways, I was referring to modern leftism. I don't know of many people who are advocating for USSR style of leftism.

 

[Omar del Sur]

there is this really bizarre leftist talking point:

"it is because of the economy that the fertility rate is low"..... ie "it is due to corporate greed!! we need to implement leftist policies"

but if societies were actually to implement leftist policies, the more the societies do so, the more low-fertility the society would be. the more leftist and feminist the society is, the lower the fertility rate.

the more honest approach would be for the leftist people to just openly say "yeah but who cares about fertility rate BIGOT"

if you read my post it's pretty clear I'm talking about current, modern leftists that are walking around as we speak. not deceased leftists of generations ago in some books on Russian history.

 

[Periplus]

if you read my post it's pretty clear I'm talking about current, modern leftists that are walking around as we speak. not deceased leftists of generations ago in some books on Russian history.

You said this

the more leftist and feminist the society is, the lower the fertility rate.

So let’s choose the most leftist government ever.

Which is the USSR and Maoist China.

Unless you think Communism isn’t the extreme of the left-wing?

 

[Omar del Sur]

So let’s choose the most leftist government ever.

Which is the USSR and Maoist China.

Unless you think Communism isn’t the extreme of the left-wing?

As I said- "if we drew a line and on end we marked "pure rightism," and on the other end we marked "pure leftism," I don't believe "pure leftism" would be the USSR."


Now- I agree that Marxism would be pure leftism. Yes. But Stalin was not following pure Marxism.

The reality is that pure Marxism would collapse a society. With Lenin, they tried to implement pure Marxism but it would have collapsed the Soviet Union so they ended up not really following pure Marxism.

For example, Marxism is against patriotism. Yet Stalin promoted patriotism. And Mao was following the Stalin version of leftism.

So no, Stalinism and Maoism do not represent pure leftism.

 

[Omar del Sur]

pure leftism would be
anti-patriotism
anti-marriage and family
pro-abortion
pro-homoism
anti-religion

the only area above where Stalin would have followed the pure leftist position would be being anti-religion. no, Stalin does not represent pure leftism.

besides being anti-religion, the USSR was actually very socially conservative to a great extent.

 

[Periplus]

@Omar del Sur

You’re shifting goalposts.

One day you claim communism is evil extreme leftism.

When that gets used against you then claim that Communism isn’t “pure leftism” whatever that means.

The reality is that extreme left is communism and extreme right is fascism.

These are universally accepted facts in political science. If you want to pull something new out of the hat, be my guest.

 

[Omar del Sur]

@Omar del Sur

You’re shifting goalposts.

One day you claim communism is evil extreme leftism.

When that gets used against you then claim that Communism isn’t “pure leftism” whatever that means.

The reality is that extreme left is communism and extreme right is fascism.

These are universally accepted facts in political science. If you want to pull something new out of the hat, be my guest.

At no point in any of this do you even address my claim that the Soviet Union under Stalin did things like illegalize abortion and homosexuality. You just totally ignore the historical reality.

Furthermore, I specifically said that Stalin deviated from pure Marxism. You simply ignore that and don't even address it.

Nowhere in my first post that you responded to, nowhere did I say "extreme leftism".

As I said: "Now- I agree that Marxism would be pure leftism. Yes. But Stalin was not following pure Marxism.".

Now if you don't understand "pure leftism" then why are you having a discussion in English? it's not my fault if you don't know basic English words.

the logical structure of what you're saying is like this....

I'm talking to someone and I say "alcohol is haraam in Islam"....
they say "yeah but... I went to this Muslim country and I knew these guys and they were drinking alcohol"..
I say "yeah but Islamically they're not supposed to"
they say "yeah but this was a Muslim country and they were drinking alcohol!"

Communism is not: "whatever the USSR does".

and also there have been various forms of Communism so to be technical I'd like to refer to "Marxism". Stalin was not following pure Marxism.

it is incorrect to say... "the USSR was Communist therefore Communism equals whatever the USSR did".... the USSR had its own version of Communism that wasn't in line with pure Marxism... as I said previously, and if you don't understand this... well it's not my fault if you don't understand what leftism is....

"pure leftism would be
anti-patriotism
anti-marriage and family
pro-abortion
pro-homoism
anti-religion

the only area above where Stalin would have followed the pure leftist position would be being anti-religion. no, Stalin does not represent pure leftism.

besides being anti-religion, the USSR was actually very socially conservative to a great extent."

 

[Omar del Sur]

let's go back to what I actually said:

"if societies were actually to implement leftist policies, the more the societies do so, the more low-fertility the society would be. the more leftist and feminist the society is, the lower the fertility rate."

if the state was to purely implement leftist policies, it would not look like the USSR or Maoist China. that whole premise is completely incorrect.

Stalin was to the right of Trump when it comes to lgbt and abortion. the Soviet Union was to the right of most current Muslim countries when it comes to gays. not even most Muslim countries currently have the death penalty for that kind of thing.

many of the Soviet Union's policies would today be considered "extreme-right" and would be to the right of current Western politics.

another thing is it's clear from that first post that I'm referring to modern leftism. it is absurd to hold the Soviet Union as a sort of pure embodiment of modern leftist ideology. the Soviet Union would be a sort of embodiment of their version of leftism but not remotely an embodiment of the modern sjw leftism that we have in the West.

 

[Periplus]

Soviet Union under Stalin did things like illegalize abortion

The Soviet Union was the first country in the world to legalise abortions.

 

[Omar del Sur]

okay. this is what you quoted.

Soviet Union under Stalin did things like illegalize abortion

and this is how you reacted:

The Soviet Union was the first country in the world to legalise abortions.

ok. if you had trouble understanding that sentence, let's go over it.

Soviet Union under Stalin did things like illegalize abortion.

the Soviet Union under Stalin. it illegalized abortion. do I need to read it to you out loud in a very slow voice?

"In 1936, Josef Stalin consolidated power and the state once again made abortion illegal."

Op-Ed: What the U.S. can learn from Stalin's abortion ban

Unlike recent laws restricting abortion in the U.S., the 1936 Soviet law outlawing the procedure was accompanied by a vast expansion of state-mandated support for women and children.

www.latimes.com

I think obviously you don't know what it is I'm talking about because you don't know about what changed under Stalin. That being so, you would lack basic understanding of the history of the Soviet Union and Communism.

 

[Periplus]

okay. this is what you quoted.




and this is how you reacted:



ok. if you had trouble understanding that sentence, let's go over it.

Soviet Union under Stalin did things like illegalize abortion.

the Soviet Union under Stalin. it illegalized abortion. do I need to read it to you out loud in a very slow voice?

"In 1936, Josef Stalin consolidated power and the state once again made abortion illegal."

Op-Ed: What the U.S. can learn from Stalin's abortion ban

Unlike recent laws restricting abortion in the U.S., the 1936 Soviet law outlawing the procedure was accompanied by a vast expansion of state-mandated support for women and children.

www.latimes.com

I think obviously you don't know what it is I'm talking about because you don't know about what changed under Stalin. That being so, you would lack basic understanding of the history of the Soviet Union and Communism.

Abortion numbers stayed the same in the USSR after Stalin’s “ban”.

They didn’t police it and it was relaxed under his reign.

Nice try tho.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Abortion numbers stayed the same in the USSR after Stalin’s “ban”.

They didn’t police it and it was relaxed under his reign.

Nice try tho.

You just casually make these assertions without substantiating them and then say "Nice try tho".

I think it clearly must have been policed as it became an underground thing- closer to the "back alley" style of abortion.

Also there was a decrease in abortions. He did indeed ban abortions.

To my understanding it did become relaxed. This may be because they were concerned about women turning to black-market type abortions.

"In July 1936, the Soviet government "accepted the numerous statements of working women" and completely banned abortion. It was a return to the "royal" legal and moral standards. The prison term threatened both the "performers" of abortions, and the pregnant women themselves. And now it was possible to have sex exclusively for procreation.

Propagandists had to make a lot of effort to ideologically justify such a sharp turn. “While all the bourgeois countries of the world do not know where to put their people, where to find work for them, how to feed them, we do not have enough people ... We need more and more fighters - the builders of this life. We need people. Abortion is an evil legacy of that order, when a person lived by narrow personal interests, and not by the life of a collective ... In our life there can be no gap between the personal and the public. A Soviet woman is equal in rights with a man... But our Soviet woman is not exempt from that great and honorable duty that nature has endowed her with: she is a mother, she must give birth, ”wrote Aron Solts, a major party functionary.

...
During the Second World War, the problem of abortion became less relevant. But already in 1944, in the Soviet Union, there were more than 30 abortions per 100 pregnancies. In 1950, more than a million abortions were recorded, and about 90 percent of them were clandestine."

why would they be clandestine if the ban wasn't real? obviously it must have been real.

also, after the ban was removed after Stalin's death:

"Despite legalization, abortion in Soviet society was still considered shameful and immoral. A certificate from the hospital about the termination of pregnancy could seriously affect the attitude of colleagues at work."

65 лет назад в СССР (снова) легализовали аборты. Их количество выросло до семи миллионов в год, а сексуальное воспитание так и осталось на уровне учебника по биологии. Как это было — в архивных фото

23 ноября 1955 года в СССР легализовали аборты. Даже после легализации процветали подпольные аборты, а сексуальное воспитание оставалось на низком уровне. Вспоминаем историю абортов в архивных фото.

babel.ua

so the attitude towards abortion is still very much to the right of how it is in the West.

 

[Periplus]

You just casually make these assertions without substantiating them and then say "Nice try tho".

I think it clearly must have been policed as it became an underground thing- closer to the "back alley" style of abortion.

Also there was a decrease in abortions. He did indeed ban abortions.

To my understanding it did become relaxed. This may be because they were concerned about women turning to black-market type abortions.

Google is your friend.

Regardless, for most of the USSR’s existence abortion was legal. They also had the highest abortion numbers in the world.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Google is your friend.

Regardless, for most of the USSR’s existence abortion was legal. They also had the highest abortion numbers in the world.

ok, well whether you want to put on airs and act condescending or not, the fact remains that Stalin did indeed ban abortion. and from what appears to be the case, the repeal after his death was due not to the state approving of abortion but because of the back-alley type methods women were resorting to.

"Maybe Soviet women would return to patriarchal reproductive behavior and give birth to 10-12 children, but they still had to work hard in production. In 1939, there were 35 abortions per 1,000 women of reproductive age, and about 3 of them were for medical reasons. The rest began to be done somewhere “at home”, women were brought to hospitals, whose lives were in danger. Along with the number of clandestine abortions, the number of murdered newborn babies has also increased. Abortion is impossible and scary, they gave birth to unwanted ones, they tried to get rid of the living.

All this led to the fact that in 1955, by the Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR “On the abolition of the prohibition of abortion”, the operation of artificial termination of pregnancy was allowed for all women in the absence of medical contraindications."



and it is true a lot of women did get abortions but why?

"Almost until the mid-eighties of the last century, the only means of contraception available to Soviet women was coitus interruptus. Therefore, our country was one of the world leaders in the number of abortions. We recall how abortions were done in our country, why the situation did not change for a long time and how it did change."

in any case, putting all this to the side- besides religion, the Soviet Union was a lot more socially conservative than the modern West.

 

[NordicSomali]

I’m thinking about how ChatGPT will transform the world

 

[Nak-Muay-Femeu]

Whether or not I should finish the report I'm meant to be presenting to stakeholders and the programme lead or watching re-runs of Jersey Shore

 

[Awad]

More frequently I browse this niche baati-weaving forum more I lose my sanity. Need to go on a detox ASAP

 

[Jungle]

7 bil down the drain today roulette is cancer