Where did Somalis get this vernacular architecture?

[Shimbiris]

@Garaad diinle @Hamzza

Off-topic in my own thread (Kkkkk) but one other cool thing that was seemingly abandoned rapidly is armor:

Armor was used by pre-early modern Horners. In the Futuh al-Habasha we are told of "iron and steel" armor, of armor for horses, of helmets and chainmail as well as breastplates and so forth:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

You can see clearly that the Muslims like the Somalis and the Christian Abyssinians all had things like chainmail, breastplates and iron helmets as well as armor for their horses. All of this just probably fell out of fashion when guns were introduced.

Both we and Xabashis apparently had chainmail, plate and armor for horses. It's weird how rapidly it disappeared, though. As I pointed out to World, it was like they saw one dude get absolutely demolished by a rifle and go "Haye, no more." I always assumed Horners didn't employ metal armor due to how hot and sunny our region is but I was mistaken, it seems.

 

[Saciid]

@Garaad diinle @Hamzza

Off-topic in my own thread (Kkkkk) but one other cool thing that was seemingly abandoned rapidly is armor:




Both we and Xabashis apparently had chainmail, plate and armor for horses. It's weird how rapidly it disappeared, though. As I pointed out to World, it was like they saw one dude get absolutely demolished by a rifle and go "Haye, no more." I always assumed Horners didn't employ metal armor due to how hot and sunny our region is but I was mistaken, it seems.

Rifles was barely used until 1800s from all evidence and Futuh Habash seems to be the exception with armor, with all other scources (except one chinese) not mentioning it. Also, most HoA didn't have armour so it's seems to have been imported by all there and used lighly

 

[Shimbiris]

Rifles was barely used until 1800s from all evidence and Futuh Habash seems to be the exception with armor, with all other scources (except one chinese) not mentioning it. Also, most HoA didn't have armour so it's seems to have been imported by all there and used lighly

You're like a skeptic for being a skeptic's sake, walaal. Also, your point about other sources is completely nonsensical. None of the other sources we have go anywhere near the interior of the Horn nor do they ever witness much or any warfare. There would be zero opportunity or call to talk about arms or armor. It was frankly weird that the Chinese even mentioned cuirasses the way they did.

Anyway, the Futux mentions armor very casually over and over and over and over and it seems very clearly, as I showed to World, something ubiquitous that all the tribes and the Xabashis seem to randomly have on their own, imports or not. Not to mention it was written by an ajanabi. I also really don't care for your weird habit of invalidating perfectly good sources and pretending something didn't happen because it doesn't align with whatever you like to believe. The Futux is not some fable, saaxiib. He very accurately describes the environment, the locations and the tribes he mentions living near Harar in the 1500s are mostly the exact same ones Burton and others mention 300 year later. As for why armor disappeared by the 1800s? Who knows, really? The comment about rifles was mostly a joke, if you didn't pick up on that.

 

[ZBR]

You're like a skeptic for being a skeptic's sake, walaal. Also, your point about other sources is completely nonsensical. None of the other sources we have go anywhere near the interior of the Horn nor do they ever witness much or any warfare. There would be zero opportunity or call to talk about arms or armor. It was frankly weird that the Chinese even mentioned cuirasses the way they did.

Anyway, the Futux mentions armor very casually over and over and over and over and it seems very clearly, as I showed to World, something ubiquitous that all the tribes and the Xabashis seem to randomly have on their own, imports or not. Not to mention it was written by an ajanabi. I also really don't care for your weird habit of invalidating perfectly good sources and pretending something didn't happen because it doesn't align with whatever you like to believe. The Futux is not some fable, saaxiib. He very accurately describes the environment, the locations and the tribes he mentions living near Harar in the 1500s are mostly the exact same ones Burton and others mention 300 year later. As for why armor disappeared by the 1800s? Who knows, really? The comment about rifles was mostly a joke, if you didn't pick up on that.

Is it possibly because of successive blockades and “””anti piracy policy””” to limit trade

 

[ZBR]

I know there was iron trade in the Red sea , they bought porous steel from India and people had it made cheap finished products by giving it to local artistians to make swo

Finished iron highly manufacturing products in Arabia and Egypt came from Roman Syria Palestine

I wonder if Somalis went to trade the Northren Red Sea regions in the Sinai

 

[Saciid]

You're like a skeptic for being a skeptic's sake, walaal. Also, your point about other sources is completely nonsensical. None of the other sources we have go anywhere near the interior of the Horn nor do they ever witness much or any warfare. There would be zero opportunity or call to talk about arms or armor. It was frankly weird that the Chinese even mentioned cuirasses the way they did.

Anyway, the Futux mentions armor very casually over and over and over and over and it seems very clearly, as I showed to World, something ubiquitous that all the tribes and the Xabashis seem to randomly have on their own, imports or not. Not to mention it was written by an ajanabi. I also really don't care for your weird habit of invalidating perfectly good sources and pretending something didn't happen because it doesn't align with whatever you like to believe. The Futux is not some fable, saaxiib. He very accurately describes the environment, the locations and the tribes he mentions living near Harar in the 1500s are mostly the exact same ones Burton and others mention 300 year later. As for why armor disappeared by the 1800s? Who knows, really? The comment about rifles was mostly a joke, if you didn't pick up on that.

Many other scources do talk ab arms: Spear, Bow, Arrow, shield, dagger etc. But never armour. You rely too many times on just one scource. And I never said that futuh lied or something lol. I'm just not gonna make hasty conclusions ab "Armour being popular in Somaliweyn in the past" before more research/scources

 

[ZBR]

Malao, Avalites, Mundu are all Somali ports who bought iron from the Romans

 

[Saciid]

Btw @Shimbiris, I'm not hating. Big fan of your genetic work here, but I belive u make to many hasty conclusions on the history side, worsen by your Pro-Somali bias. U should use your Arabic fluency and broaden your Italian scources

 

[Shimbiris]

Many other scources do talk ab arms: Spear, Bow, Arrow, shield, dagger etc. But never armour. You rely too many times on just one scource. And I never said that futuh lied or something lol. I'm just not gonna make hasty conclusions ab "Armour being popular in Somaliweyn in the past" before more research/scources

Many, you say? Please share them. There's mostly just the Portuguese before the 1800s. They're the ones who mention some of the things you just listed and it's very off-hand and literally from off the shore and not on land where they say the locals wait for them with poisoned spears and such. Don't make stuff up, walaal.

And if you read the document you're trying to scrutinize with your pseudo-historian "it's a single source" nonsense (that's not an argument, waryaa. If the source is unreliable or contradicted by others then sure but otherwise...), you'd know full well the diversity of tribes it mentions. Hawiyes, a wide confederation of Isaaqs, at least half a dozen different Darood subtribes including Hartis from the northeast in Maydh, several different Dir groups from the Barsuk to the Gurgura to the Samaroon (Habar Maqdi) and they and all the Xabashis they're fighting have all this armor the author keeps mentioning. It's not a hasty leap, it's in the bloody text that it was ubiquitous.

I actually go out of my way to explain why I trust sources like Burton and the Futux then you come at me with some nonsensical "It's just one source" talk like I was ever just blindly trusting the source. As I pointed out with Burton, for example, he traveled across the whole north and all the way to Harar and met several different tribes and their chieftains and spoke to them and reliably recounts a lot of accurate things about Somali dhaqan, tribal locations and genealogies that match other sources but I'm supposed to believe he was somehow magically unreliable when he mentions seeing dogs everywhere among ruralites? Not to mention that this is backed up by the archaeological record of the Somali Peninsula and every single surrounding nomadic macro-group had dogs so it's not remotely far-fetched.

Btw @Shimbiris, I'm not hating. Big fan of your genetic work here, but I belive u make to many hasty conclusions on the history side, worsen by your Pro-Somali bias.

Pro-Somali bias? Saaxiib, I am more than fair when speaking on Somali-related subjects. Notice how I didn't rant and leap about GRAND ANCIENT CIVILIZATIONs like some of the young men in this thread but instead spoke more level-headedly about what things were really like and even personally attribute the Cariish to Arabian influence. I'm getting quite sick of chaps like yourself trying to imply I'm like some frothing at the mouth nationalist cos I don't act like my people were low savages or something. I mean what is even "pro-Somali" about dogs or chainmail?

 

[Maintainnnin]

From some of the photos I've collected from the internet overtime it definitely seems that only the wealthy, and buildings of importance were made of coral and stone. Everything else was made of simple locally available materials such as trees, and brushes. Obviously the more important a city was like Muqdisho, Saylac, or Berbera for example the more permanent stone/coral buildings there were.

-You can see in this coastal town for example the masjid is made of coral/stone which is a more long lasting material in the elements while all the homes around it are more simple structures.

-This is a photo taken just outside of Muqdisho, these are mostly similar to the huts you would see in Ethiopia and the like, but I think they're made of coral, not sure though. There's also one cariish there in the photo.

-Some town in Puntland, can't remember which, but it's the same case where forts and homes of notable people are made of stone and coral while the rest of the people live in more simple structures.

 

[Hamzza]

 

[Garaad diinle]

A 700 year old describtion of somali houses.

and their houses are made out of clay, stone and wood with it's roofs being trusses
and domes ( literally carish and aqal somali).

 

[Lone Wanderer]

From some of the photos I've collected from the internet overtime it definitely seems that only the wealthy, and buildings of importance were made of coral and stone. Everything else was made of simple locally available materials such as trees, and brushes. Obviously the more important a city was like Muqdisho, Saylac, or Berbera for example the more permanent stone/coral buildings there were.

View attachment 247403
-You can see in this coastal town for example the masjid is made of coral/stone which is a more long lasting material in the elements while all the homes around it are more simple structures.

View attachment 247404
-This is a photo taken just outside of Muqdisho, these are mostly similar to the huts you would see in Ethiopia and the like, but I think they're made of coral, not sure though. There's also one cariish there in the photo.

View attachment 247401
-Some town in Puntland, can't remember which, but it's the same case where forts and homes of notable people are made of stone and coral while the rest of the people live in more simple structures.

I really appreciate the layout of those huts and how it just looks nice. Thanks for the pictures.

 

[hinters]

tf are those slums?

You expected Somalis to build Cathedrals?

 

[Abaq]

From some of the photos I've collected from the internet overtime it definitely seems that only the wealthy, and buildings of importance were made of coral and stone. Everything else was made of simple locally available materials such as trees, and brushes. Obviously the more important a city was like Muqdisho, Saylac, or Berbera for example the more permanent stone/coral buildings there were.

View attachment 247403
-You can see in this coastal town for example the masjid is made of coral/stone which is a more long lasting material in the elements while all the homes around it are more simple structures.

View attachment 247404
-This is a photo taken just outside of Muqdisho, these are mostly similar to the huts you would see in Ethiopia and the like, but I think they're made of coral, not sure though. There's also one cariish there in the photo.

View attachment 247401
-Some town in Puntland, can't remember which, but it's the same case where forts and homes of notable people are made of stone and coral while the rest of the people live in more simple structures.

Simple, beautiful architecture. Just look at how beautifully these towns were laid out. With thew resources we have today, we can build similar towns today, those that can afford it can build using coral, and those that can't can build cariish. Rather than the stifflinf hot jiingad and cement monstrosities people build nowadays where you can't breath due to how hot they get in the sun.

I had the honour a few years ago to spend the night in a cariish when I visited the homeland and it was the most comfortable nights sleep I had then. During the stiffling midday heat, the cariish is cool and comfortable, not the uncomfortable cold of an AC cooled room, but it just had pleasant cool air that didn't make you sick. When it was cold, rainy, and windy outside, the cariish would be nice and warm with dry air.