Why America is sleeping on this guy?

[ZakWantsToPlay]

commies.

We would be crazy to put a Chinese Communist in charge. Are we to be ruled over by the CCP?

I think he should be investigated for being a Chinese spy.

Combining elements good in communism with elements in Democratic governance that work is the best.


Freedom of religion, freedom to choose government, freedom to thrive as an individual, freedom to make money as you please as long as you are not cheating or hurting anyone are all good democratic norms but they miss one key elements: Social needs given a priority over the rights of an individual where communism is good at. No system is perfect but you need to aim for one that is in the middle like Islam. Both systems align with Islam on some aspects as well.

Calling for an investigation of people you disagree with is not smart. That is Authoritarian practice. People are born free sxb, you can't deny them the right to express their views.

 

[Ras]

Inflation wouldn’t rise as more money isn’t being printed just redistributed, the same amount of money is out there already

Yh but most of that money is controlled by large corporations due to every industry being a monopoly.

That money isn't that liquid since it's being used on stock buybacks, offshore accounts etc.

Even government money mainly goes towards large vendors.

Giving people money directly would lead to smaller mom & pop shops circulating the money locally so there'll be more liquidity and hence a risk for inflation.

However, like I said above it wouldn't really be that dramatic because:

1. Automation will make everything a lot cheaper so you can buy more with less cash...
2. Automation will put a ton of people out of work hence less spending overall

It will balance out overall.

Even if companies price up their services and goods they'll be outcompeted in an open market.

Im sure there are things I'm missing since I'm not an economist but I don't really see inflation being an issue.

We might have the opposite problem which would be worse.

 

[ZakWantsToPlay]

Yh but most of that money is controlled by large corporations due to every industry being a monopoly.

That money isn't that liquid since it's being used on stock buybacks, offshore accounts etc.

Even government money mainly goes towards large vendors.

Giving people money directly would lead to smaller mom & pop shops circulating the money locally so there'll be more liquidity and hence a risk for inflation.

However, like I said above it wouldn't really be that dramatic because:

1. Automation will make everything a lot cheaper so you can buy more with less cash...
2. Automation will put a ton of people out of work hence less spending overall

It will balance out overall.

Even if companies price up their services and goods they'll be outcompeted in an open market.

Im sure there are things I'm missing since I'm not an economist but I don't really see inflation being an issue.

We might have the opposite problem which would be worse.

Many important industries are automated already. There is always work for skilled workers and automation wouldn't be 100%. Also this is the same reason some economists think universal basic income is necessary to maintain a healthy society. Winners take all is never a succes way to maintain society.

 

[Tukraq]

Many important industries are automated already. There is always work for skilled workers and automation wouldn't be 100%. Also this is the same reason some economists think universal basic income is necessary to maintain a healthy society. Winners take all is never a succes way to maintain society.

Eventually automation will be 100 percent

 

[Ras]

Eventually automation will be 100 percent

Not necessarily.

Have a feeling that there'll be parallel economy based around community, leisure, culture etc.

Basically people will decouple from the wider market and manage their own destinies even if it won't be as efficient as AIs providing the physical and cognitive services.

You'd guess we would build the new economy around the needs of the many but the elites would probably have it another way.

If that's not viable then it'll be a really scary dystopia since we'll be all depended on a basic income then.

You won't be able to even afford your own farm.

Americans will be better of but in places like India or Africa ... Imagine what the basic income there will be?

1 bag of rice per week per family and some nutrient lacking desalinated water?

 

[Ras]

Many important industries are automated already. There is always work for skilled workers and automation wouldn't be 100%. Also this is the same reason some economists think universal basic income is necessary to maintain a healthy society. Winners take all is never a succes way to maintain society.

What happens when states and the elites no longer need the mandate of the people?

I.e. they can exploit all the resources and fight all the wars they need without the permission or assistance of the populace through automation.

Highly likely that the ethical options would go out the window and we'll return back to a feudalist system where winners do take all.

 

[Tukraq]

Not necessarily.

Have a feeling that there'll be parallel economy based around community, leisure, culture etc.

Basically people will decouple from the wider market and manage their own destinies even if it won't be as efficient as AIs providing the physical and cognitive services.

You'd guess we would build the new economy around the needs of the many but the elites would probably have it another way.

If that's not viable then it'll be a really scary dystopia since we'll be all depended on a basic income then.

You won't be able to even afford your own farm.

Americans will be better of but in places like India or Africa ... Imagine what the basic income there will be?

1 bag of rice per week per family and some nutrient lacking desalinated water?

firstly Africa and India won't exist at some point in our life times due to global warming so that won't be too much of an issue(mass migration will be crazy though)

, as for automation outside personality/oppinion jobs like say music/politics/entertainment and stuff like that yeah they'll still be around however blue collar and white collar work(like physical labor or say accounting or doing paperwork/computer work) will go out the window for sure, heck we currently have the tech to replace most of it, 10 more years and they can get it done, another 10 to full implement

 

[Ras]

firstly Africa and India won't exist at some point in our life times due to global warming so that won't be too much of an issue(mass migration will be crazy though)

, as for automation outside personality/oppinion jobs like say music/politics/entertainment and stuff like that yeah they'll still be around however blue collar and white collar work(like physical labor or say accounting or doing paperwork/computer work) will go out the window for sure, heck we currently have the tech to replace most of it, 10 more years and they can get it done, another 10 to full implement

4 degrees is a huge jump. I doubt we will see that in our lifetime.

In regards to automation. I see us either in a semi post scarcity world where unemployment doesn't matter or one where the elites disfranchise the rest of the population and shut them out of resources.

In a fully automated world what's to stop me from downloading an open-source AI and build my own set of robots that could build whatever Eden I want?

If resources on Earth are spoken for then a single mid sized asteroid in space could provide me with enough material to build a million Dubai's.

The only thing that could prevent that is an authoritarian government dead set on keeping us poor.

So it's either hell or a future to look forward to.

Getting back to UBI... It's probably a good stop gap until we reach the stage where everything can be automated.

 

[Tukraq]

4 degrees is a huge jump. I doubt we will see that in our lifetime.

In regards to automation. I see us either in a semi post scarcity world where unemployment doesn't matter or one where the elites disfranchise the rest of the population and shut them out of resources.

In a fully automated world what's to stop me from downloading an open-source AI and build my own set of robots that could build whatever Eden I want?

If resources on Earth are spoken for then a single mid sized asteroid in space could provide me with enough material to build a million Dubai's.

The only thing that could prevent that is an authoritarian government dead set on keeping us poor.

So it's either hell or a future to look forward to.

Getting back to UBI... It's probably a good stop gap until we reach the stage where everything can be automated.

its the solution when everything automated, nobody says you can't make your own AI the thing will be competition for customers though, rest of the population won't be disenfranchised when they're the consumers that make the merry go round, there isn't a real concept of elites as they answer to the consumer and are slaves of the consumer

 

[ZakWantsToPlay]

its the solution when everything automated, nobody says you can't make your own AI the thing will be competition for customers though, rest of the population won't be disenfranchised when they're the consumers that make the merry go round, there isn't a real concept of elites as they answer to the consumer and are slaves of the consumer

Don't people need the ability to earn so they buy things produced by companies? And if they don't have the ability to make money, how will they afford to buy the goods they need? If companies need customers, but majority aren't capable of buying from them, what is the point of producing goods no one can afford or the majority can not afford? You need an economic system that works for most of the people if not all.

In the US market, regulations are in place to avoid inflation, price gauging, unreasonable profit on utilities for example. Many states won't allow the electrical companies to charge too high of a price per kwatt of power they delivery through the grid. This is considered essential/necessity so it is regulated like that. There are necessary controls required to make a free market economy work in order to avoid the system collapsing under its weight, or because of corruption. The idea of free reign for anybody with money doing as they please without rules and expectations is hard to fathom.

The consumer you like to point to needs jobs and income. And good pay for them to buy stuff made by successful companies. It is a circle.

 

[Tukraq]

Don't people need the ability to earn so they buy things produced by companies? And if they don't have the ability to make money, how will they afford to buy the goods they need? If companies need customers, but majority aren't capable of buying from them, what is the point of producing goods no one can afford or the majority can not afford? You need an economic system that works for most of the people if not all.

In the US market, regulations are in place to avoid inflation, price gauging, unreasonable profit on utilities for example. Many states won't allow the electrical companies to charge too high of a price per kwatt of power they delivery through the grid. This is considered essential/necessity so it is regulated like that. There are necessary controls required to make a free market economy work in order to avoid the system collapsing under its weight, or because of corruption. The idea of free reign for anybody with money doing as they please without rules and expectations is hard to fathom.

The consumer you like to point to needs jobs and income. And good pay for them to buy stuff made by successful companies. It is a circle.

consumers don't need jobs, jobs would be an outdated thing of the past and the concept of workers a relic, the consumers would get the money from UBI or being entrepreneurs/working in fields of opinion and entertainment

 

[ZakWantsToPlay]

4 degrees is a huge jump. I doubt we will see that in our lifetime.

In regards to automation. I see us either in a semi post scarcity world where unemployment doesn't matter or one where the elites disfranchise the rest of the population and shut them out of resources.

In a fully automated world what's to stop me from downloading an open-source AI and build my own set of robots that could build whatever Eden I want?

If resources on Earth are spoken for then a single mid sized asteroid in space could provide me with enough material to build a million Dubai's.

The only thing that could prevent that is an authoritarian government dead set on keeping us poor.

So it's either hell or a future to look forward to.

Getting back to UBI... It's probably a good stop gap until we reach the stage where everything can be automated.

Some professions can not be automated. Manufacturing is mostly automated. While I worked in a plant producing computer chips, processes we used to do manual got automated. That required less operators hired for the work but the company still hired people. The move to automation changed what kind of operators they hired. High school diploma became a requirement whereas before they hired anyone walking through the door. For secure spot in the company, a respectable position required a minimum of two year degree afterwards. I got my degree paid by them before I bounced and got bonus money for every certificate I brought from college with credits attached whilst I worked there. The company invested in workers. There will always be a need for workers in automated work environments but with some changes in required skills.

That leaves also many professions that can not be automated but aided by AI.

 

[ZakWantsToPlay]

consumers don't need jobs, jobs would be an outdated thing of the past and the concept of workers a relic, the consumers would get the money from UBI or being entrepreneurs/working in fields of opinion and entertainment

That would be awesome then. You answered my question. I am not sure the current economic model in the world will accommodate such vision.

 

[Tukraq]

Some professions can not be automated. Manufacturing is mostly automated. While I worked in a plant producing computer chips, processes we used to do manual got automated. That required less operators hired for the work but the company still hired people. The move to automation changed what kind of operators they hired. High school diploma became a requirement whereas before they hired anyone walking through the door. For secure spot in the company, a respectable position required a minimum of two year degree afterwards. I got my degree paid by them before I bounced and got bonus money for every certificate I brought from college with credits attached. There will always be a need for workers but some changes in required skills.

That leaves also many professions that can not be automated but aided by AI.

like what? I get entertainment and opinion pieces but everything else will be automated in 40 years, most could technically be automated now

 

[Tukraq]

That would be awesome then. You answered my question. I am not sure the current economic model in the world will accommodate such vision.

there introducing UBI sooner rather than later in the US sxb, rest of the world will be tricky but the conversations I'm hearing about climate change makes it seem like it won't even exist(there already evacuating cities in America)

 

[ZakWantsToPlay]

like what? I get entertainment and opinion pieces but everything else will be automated in 40 years, most could technically be automated now

Medicine in all its facets with the exception of drug manufacturing companies won't be automated. Electrical engineers, chemical engineers, and their juniors like Engineering techs will be as they are today, working in the technical field. A two year degree will become the norm and the must haves for most jobs. Things shift with the change in technology.

Masonry won't be automated

 

[Tukraq]

Medicine in all its facets with the exception of drug manufacturing companies won't be automated. Electrical engineers, chemical engineers, and their juniors like Engineering techs will be as they are today, working in the technical field. A two year degree will become the norm and the must haves for most jobs. Things shift with the change in technology.

Masonry won't be automated

computer programing will for sure be automated within 10 years(thats where there putting all the money on in AI), medicine will also defiantly be automated its the next frontier and as mark cuban said the first nrillionaire will be whoever automates medicine(will forsure happen in our lifetimes not even close to enough doctors and AI will be more efficient)

 

[Ras]

Some professions can not be automated. Manufacturing is mostly automated. While I worked in a plant producing computer chips, processes we used to do manual got automated. That required less operators hired for the work but the company still hired people. The move to automation changed what kind of operators they hired. High school diploma became a requirement whereas before they hired anyone walking through the door. For secure spot in the company, a respectable position required a minimum of two year degree afterwards. I got my degree paid by them before I bounced and got bonus money for every certificate I brought from college with credits attached whilst I worked there. The company invested in workers. There will always be a need for workers in automated work environments but with some changes in required skills.

That leaves also many professions that can not be automated but aided by AI.

In time even entertainers and artists can be automated.

The only job that safe is being in sales but by then there's no one around to sell to

You'd be surprised at how quickly innovations starting ramping up.

By 2030 we'd be able to double or even triple the average productivity of workers but by 2040 employers will start to realize that they no longer need anyone.

By 2050 even they will get replaced by large funds running decentralized autonomous organizations that outcompete everyone else.

At that stage even UBI can't patch things up and we'll need to come up with a new system.

 

[VixR]

Because his $1000 a month proposal is a terrible idea. Landlords know that every single adult is receiving $1000 more so they jack up rent by $400 a month. Daycare centers know that every single adult is receiving $1000 more so they jack up prices by $200 a month. Health insurance companies know that every single adult is receiving $1000 more so they jack up health insurance by $200 a month. Universities know every single adult is receiving $1000 more so they jack up tuition by $200 a month.

There goes that $1000 a month. What you want are universal guarantees like free university, universal healthcare, universal childcare etc... never go for the cash always go for the safety net.

Universal everything is a horrible idea, and just as damaging in the long run. What you need is something to legislate the predatory pricing hikes of those industries.

A 3 month supply of insulin across the border in Mexico is $500, in the US it’s $4000. And don’t get me started on college/university hike in the last 30 yrs.

 

[Tukraq]

In time even entertainers and artists can be automated.

The only job that safe is being in sales but by then there's no one around to sell to

You'd be surprised at how quickly innovations starting ramping up.

By 2030 we'd be able to double or even triple the average productivity of workers but by 2040 employers will start to realize that they no longer need anyone.

By 2050 even they will get replaced by large funds running decentralized autonomous organizations that outcompete everyone else.

At that stage even UBI can't patch things up and we'll need to come up with a new system.

with the tech already out there we can already automate most jobs(although I can't see how they do entertainment though), it'll come closer than you think, most white collar jobs can already be done better by AI, same and labour jobs, drivers and services jobs are already out the window, so is all restaurant workers, also why would there be employers who are they employing? machines? lol