Why do non Arab Muslims have to pray and read the Quran in Arabic?

[TooMacaan]

That is not the case. God chooses what he wants and does as he pleases. Arabic is similar to all other languages mankind speaks and spoke. Jesus spoke Aramaic and Hebrew. Muslims do not question a prophet's ethnicity and language but believe in all because their message was the same.

To someone who believes in God, they would not care what language or race his messenger belongs to. People who don't understand God are the people who are obsessed with race and linguistic differences when it comes to Religion.


The attitude of people who ding Islam for Arabic are the people who are okay with supposed son of God painted as white and with blue eyes even though obviously that is ridiculously stupid and they know it. These individuals and societies want God to be racist. That is how extreme they went with ethnic obsession.

You took my post way more seriously than it was intended sxb.
I wasn't making any efforts to denounce Islam in any way, shape, or form (and this isn't meant to be a Christian vs. Muslim thing, but I'll compare/contrast in order to address some of your points). Intended point: emphasize the abuse of religious power/authority to serve greedy interests.

I don't really understand the reference to Jesus speaking Aramaic/Hebrew and how it's connected to using religion to spread cultural dominance. The reality of today is that Christians don't speak Aramaic/Hebrew in large numbers...nor are they told that in order to understand the holy book properly, that they must read it in the original language that it was written in [although practically, I do get this point].

The only comparable event I can think of is how white Colonialists would use Christianity in order to enslave the minds of the captured indigenous and spread Western culture/values/customs/clothing (and all I'm saying is that we must admit there are instances where religion is used as a tool for conquest...this does NOT mean that religion is inherently bad itself, but rather that people can use it to do bad).

My comment was an observation of what I see in reality, not a comment on the theoretical ideals of the Qu'ran and Islam. Of course you are right that "someone who believes in God would not care about race, language, of messenger"...but if we look at how Islam is practiced today, we cannot deny there is a lot of ignorance and a theme of Arab supremacy (specifically, Saudi supremacy) within it. I put that to cultural influence and Saudi monopoly(almost ownership) of the Islamic religion, since it has the benefit of hosting Mecca/Medina. It begins with language but you even see some Muslims who take it too far and adopt ARAB clothing style (not Muslim) and customs...as part of their journey in Islam. How does that make sense??? Islam does not = Arab...but looking at the actions of Arab Muslims with superiority complexes as well as some non-Arab Muslims, you'd think that it did. Some of these same non-Arab Muslims also adopt an inferiority complex to Arabs (and thus, bootyclapping) along with the religion, when that shouldn't be the case. Religion doesn't belong to any specific ethnicity or race; being "chosen" depends on faith [and good deeds too]. I just want to drive that last point really...

P.S. I am not (and never have been) okay with a "God painted white and blue eyes" [just in case you were referring to me].

 

[Beja]

To spread Arab culture and attempt cultural domination...

Respect to all the anti-arab-booty clapping peeps in Iran, Somalia, Turkey, and all other Muslim majority nations for retaining their own indigenous language though. Fardowsa is probably proud!! R.I.P to the endangered Amazigh and Nubian culture...

R.I.P how? There are still millions of Nubian speakers and that number is only growing.

 

[government]

You took my post way more seriously than it was intended sxb.
I wasn't making any efforts to denounce Islam in any way, shape, or form (and this isn't meant to be a Christian vs. Muslim thing, but I'll compare/contrast in order to address some of your points). Intended point: emphasize the abuse of religious power/authority to serve greedy interests.

I don't really understand the reference to Jesus speaking Aramaic/Hebrew and how it's connected to using religion to spread cultural dominance. The reality of today is that Christians don't speak Aramaic/Hebrew in large numbers...nor are they told that in order to understand the holy book properly, that they must read it in the original language that it was written in [although practically, I do get this point].

The only comparable event I can think of is how white Colonialists would use Christianity in order to enslave the minds of the captured indigenous and spread Western culture/values/customs/clothing (and all I'm saying is that we must admit there are instances where religion is used as a tool for conquest...this does NOT mean that religion is inherently bad itself, but rather that people can use it to do bad).

My comment was an observation of what I see in reality, not a comment on the theoretical ideals of the Qu'ran and Islam. Of course you are right that "someone who believes in God would not care about race, language, of messenger"...but if we look at how Islam is practiced today, we cannot deny there is a lot of ignorance and a theme of Arab supremacy (specifically, Saudi supremacy) within it. I put that to cultural influence and Saudi monopoly(almost ownership) of the Islamic religion, since it has the benefit of hosting Mecca/Medina. It begins with language but you even see some Muslims who take it too far and adopt ARAB clothing style (not Muslim) and customs...as part of their journey in Islam. How does that make sense??? Islam does not = Arab...but looking at the actions of Arab Muslims with superiority complexes as well as some non-Arab Muslims, you'd think that it did. Some of these same non-Arab Muslims also adopt an inferiority complex to Arabs (and thus, bootyclapping) along with the religion, when that shouldn't be the case. Religion doesn't belong to any specific ethnicity or race; being "chosen" depends on faith [and good deeds too]. I just want to drive that last point really...

P.S. I am not (and never have been) okay with a "God painted white and blue eyes" [just in case you were referring to me].

There is no Arab supremacy in Islam the prophet peace be upon him said in many hadiths that there's no difference between Arab and non Arabs and black and white except for their faith. And Saudis don't have a superiority complex because they are Arab it's because they are rich just look how they treat Arabs from poor countries like Egypt.

 

[TooMacaan]

R.I.P how? There are still millions of Nubian speakers and that number is only growing.

Although the gov representative dispels his concerns at the end, the main speaker delves into some troublesome patterns he notices with regards to his culture taking a seat in the Sudan.
The rip is more of a red flag/beware type thing if Nubians aren't cautious.
&
This following article highlights some fears that Nubians both in Egypt and Sudan deal with in terms of preserving their culture (not only due to influence if Arabic/mixed race marriages though, but also because of floods/dams). Nubians & other indigenous cultures don't dominate Sudanese culture in the same way as the past.
http://m.thenational.ae/news/world/africa/nubians-fear-for-heritage-as-ancient-clashes-with-modern

Like you said, things are certainly looking up for the better now but the fears still remain and they must actively keep watch to ensure their culture doesn't meet extinction (I believe some Nubian dialects are listed under the 'endangered' category...?). This is even more relevant for Egyptian Nubians in particular.

 

[OmarLittle]

They created the religion and wanted/want to dominate the world.

 

[Paladin]

They created the religion and wanted/want to dominate the world.

M8 Islam is not an Arab religion, it is a world religion. In fact Arabs are not even the most Muslims, when it comes to size. As well as the fact that the last caliphate was Turkish not Arab.

 

[TooMacaan]

There is no Arab supremacy in Islam the prophet peace be upon him said in many hadiths that there's no difference between Arab and non Arabs and black and white except for their faith. And Saudis don't have a superiority complex because they are Arab it's because they are rich just look how they treat Arabs from poor countries like Egypt.

As I said, I'm not referring to the theoretical ideals of the Qur'an and what is "right" by God...I'm talking about what gets practiced in real life. Thus, what the prophet said is irrelevant (in this particular convo)...because some of his 'followers' (whom I am referring to) aren't abiding by his words.

There are Muslim Arabs who believe they own the religion despite what the Qur'an says; I have seen this with my own eyes and even on social media. They think they are the "legitimate" voice of Islam. It's not even just rich Saudis but rather everyday people who act like this.

 

[Beja]

Although the gov representative dispels his concerns at the end, the main speaker delves into some troublesome patterns he notices with regards to his culture taking a seat in the Sudan.
The rip is more of a red flag/beware type thing if Nubians aren't cautious.
&
This following article highlights some fears that Nubians both in Egypt and Sudan deal with in terms of preserving their culture (not only due to influence if Arabic/mixed race marriages though, but also because of floods/dams). Nubians & other indigenous cultures don't dominate Sudanese culture in the same way as the past.
http://m.thenational.ae/news/world/africa/nubians-fear-for-heritage-as-ancient-clashes-with-modern

Like you said, things are certainly looking up for the better now but the fears still remain and they must actively keep watch to ensure their culture doesn't meet extinction (I believe some Nubian dialects are listed under the 'endangered' category...?). This is even more relevant for Egyptian Nubians in particular.

The "R.I.P" just seems very absurd to me, comparing someone's culture to a dead animal or "endangered species" rubs me off. You can't say someone is dead and that they need to be careful in the same breath (like you just did), how can you be careful if you're already dead?

Since Nubians don't have any large, urban cities like Bejas or Arabs, many of them immigrate to Khartoum, Omdurman, Bahri and Wad Madani which is how the language is starting to weaken. However, many of them live in the same districts/neighborhoods to keep their language going.

Nubian culture (Weddings, songs, clothing, dances) are still practiced by the Arabized tribes, it's just referred to as "mainstream Sudanese culture" since most Sudanese tribes have adopted it, so the only thing they need to be worried about is the language.

 

[government]

As I said, I'm not referring to the theoretical ideals of the Qur'an and what is "right" by God...I'm talking about what gets practiced in real life. Thus, what the prophet said is irrelevant (in this particular convo)...because some of his 'followers' (whom I am referring to) aren't abiding by his words.

There are Muslim Arabs who believe they own the religion despite what the Qur'an says; I have seen this with my own eyes and even on social media. They think they are the "legitimate" voice of Islam. It's not even just rich Saudis but rather everyday people who act like this.

I'm not aware of this tbh. But what I'm aware of is that Saudis ignorance and racism doesn't stem from the fact that they think that Arabs own the religion they are racist against anyone from less wealthy country including Arab countries like Egypt Lebanon Syria Yemen etc. Of course there are gonna be some people that are gonna claim that Islam is for Arabs just like there are some whites that claim that Christianity is for whites and there also a group of people that claim Islam is for blacks only

 

[TooMacaan]

The "R.I.P" just seems very absurd to me, comparing someone's culture to a dead animal or "endangered species" rubs me off. You can't say someone is dead and that they need to be careful in the same breath (like you just did), how can you be careful if you're already dead?

Since Nubians don't have any large, urban cities like Bejas or Arabs, many of them immigrate to Khartoum, Omdurman, Bahri and Wad Madani which is how the language is starting to weaken. However, many of them live in the same districts/neighborhoods to keep their language going.

Nubian culture (Weddings, songs, clothing, dances) are still practiced by the Arabized tribes, it's just referred to as "mainstream Sudanese culture" since most Sudanese tribes have adopted it, so the only thing they need to be worried about is the language.

If you read my post I also said r.i.p to Amazigh culture first and that is even more at risk than Nubian culture. The r.i.p refers to what the future could look like (although Amazigh culture is not extinct yet and there are efforts being made for a revival there as well); a.k.a foreshadowing what may happen if caution isn't taken(thus, it does make sense to say it "in the same breath").

Sorry it rubs you the wrong way but calling it "endangered" & "extinct" is not a comparison to dead animals nor is it my invention. That is literally the term that anthropologists use in order to classify matters such as these.

How come Nubians have their own cities like the other groups you mentioned? As for having to move to Khartoum and creating mini-communities.. I think the fact that Nubians have to go through those extra lengths just in order to persevere their culture/language when they previously used to be so dominant speaks to my original point. It seems like a downgrade.

And yes, I'm aware of the legacy of certain aspects of Nubian culture in the kept alive in the mainstream... I think it's really beautiful, especially the music! Language is still a crucial thing though and it can't be replaced by anything; it's the door/entrance to culture and that's all my point was.

 

[Mad Mullah]

Infidel continue with your attacks, one day you'll be confronted by the truth and you'll find yourself completely lacking.

 

[Beja]

If you read my post I also said r.i.p to Amazigh culture first and that is even more at risk than Nubian culture. The r.i.p refers to what the future could look like (although Amazigh culture is not extinct yet and there are efforts being made for a revival there as well); a.k.a foreshadowing what may happen if caution isn't taken(thus, it does make sense to say it "in the same breath").

Sorry it rubs you the wrong way but calling it "endangered" & "extinct" is not a comparison to dead animals nor is it my invention. That is literally the term that anthropologists use in order to classify matters such as these.

How come Nubians have their own cities like the other groups you mentioned? As for having to move to Khartoum and creating mini-communities.. I think the fact that Nubians have to go through those extra lengths just in order to persevere their culture/language when they previously used to be so dominant speaks to my original point. It seems like a downgrade.

And yes, I'm aware of the legacy of certain aspects of Nubian culture in the kept alive in the mainstream... I think it's really beautiful, especially the music! Language is still a crucial thing though and it can't be replaced by anything; it's the door/entrance to culture and that's all my point was.

Well considering what anthropology has been built on and the colonial effects it had (including the Tutsi genocide) i'm not really shocked with that dehumanizing terminology. In fact I took an anthro class on language last semester so I have heard those terms before and never liked them.

Well, Khartoum/Omdurman/Bahri (3 joint cities) and Wad Madani are surrounded by Arabized tribes, so Arab tribes hold most control there, although Darfurians are also very prevalent in the political field. Since those cities attracted foreigners for centuries they quickly urbanized. Port Sudan is coastal therefore apart of Beja land and far from Nubians, and due to Sudan's gold and oil exports the city urbanized as well. Nubians are farming people and have no issues with it since they have an abundant amount of fresh water and never deal with starvation so the only reason they would leave their agricultural lifestyle is to attend a prestigious university. Dongola is somewhat urbanized but even then their population is fairly small.

They don't move together in Khartoum simply for language, but rather to be near their tribal folks/family. In fact they never teach their children their language but they always manage to be fluent in it which is very neat imo.

Although I do believe preserving language for songs, oral history, storytelling, etc is very important i'm not hell bent on having my native language as the official/government language and I have many (fairly controversial) reasons or that.

 

[TooMacaan]

Well considering what anthropology has been built on and the colonial effects it had (including the Tutsi genocide) i'm not really shocked with that dehumanizing terminology. In fact I took an anthro class on language last semester so I have heard those terms before and never liked them.

Well, Khartoum/Omdurman/Bahri (3 joint cities) and Wad Madani are surrounded by Arabized tribes, so Arab tribes hold most control there, although Darfurians are also very prevalent in the political field. Since those cities attracted foreigners for centuries they quickly urbanized. Port Sudan is coastal therefore apart of Beja land and far from Nubians, and due to Sudan's gold and oil exports the city urbanized as well. Nubians are farming people and have no issues with it since they have an abundant amount of fresh water and never deal with starvation so the only reason they would leave their agricultural lifestyle is to attend a prestigious university. Dongola is somewhat urbanized but even then their population is fairly small.

They don't move together in Khartoum simply for language, but rather to be near their tribal folks/family. In fact they never teach their children their language but they always manage to be fluent in it which is very neat imo.

Although I do believe preserving language for songs, oral history, storytelling, etc is very important i'm not hell bent on having my native language as the official/government language and I have many (fairly controversial) reasons or that.

Alright, thanks for clearing things up and taking the time to break it down bit by bit. I learned some new things for sure. I apologize for my phrasing btw; my intention wasn't for it to come off in a dehumanizing manner!

 

[Beja]

Alright, thanks for clearing things up and taking the time to break it down bit by bit. I learned some new things for sure. I apologize for my phrasing btw; my intention wasn't for it to come off in a dehumanizing manner!

No harm sister, I know you didn't have any ill-intent. ^_^

 

[axmedxajiisback]

Wouldn't it better to do it in a language you understand? Why do we have to memorise the quran at an early age without even knowing the contents of what we're reading. Isn't the whole point of the Quran being given to us so that we can read, understand and implement it's teachings in our lives?

Think hard about this one and get back to me when you have a theory.

 

[axmedxajiisback]

its not difficult to understand the Quran, I don't even speak Arabic and I can understand it. the Quran should be kept as it is, otherwise it's just a translation. And it only takes a little sitting down to comprehend it.

You don't speak Arabic and you understand the Quran? You mean a translation of the Quran, which is what this whole question was about?

 

[ItzDoctorZ]

Infidel continue with your attacks, one day you'll be confronted by the truth and you'll find yourself completely lacking.

What attacks lol. Im asking a genuine question.

 

[ItzDoctorZ]

Think hard about this one and get back to me when you have a theory.

The only thing i can come up with is that it's to keep the "words of allah" in its true, original and pure form.

 

[axmedxajiisback]

Infidel continue with your attacks, one day you'll be confronted by the truth and you'll find yourself completely lacking.

He's a Muslim genuinely confused about this issue. He'll be confronted by the truth? The "truth" is in a language that 3% of people speak.

 

[axmedxajiisback]

The only thing i can come up with is that it's to keep the "words of allah" in its true, original and pure form.

That's a good theory. Go one further: it's the language god speaks (spoke) around 613.