Why do people stereotype religious people

[Geeljire]

On the topic at hand. Its a nonsense stereotype, the most religious countries in the world have the lowest suicides rate. The least religious countries in the world have the highest suicide rates.

That itself should tell you a lot.

 

[You]

On the topic at hand. Its a nonsense stereotype, the most religious countries in the world have the lowest suicides rate. The least religious countries in the world have the highest suicide rates.

That itself should tell you a lot.

There is underlying reason for this that you're ignoring.

People in the west that comits suicide see it as an easy way out. A way to escape their desperation or their sickness, what ever their reasoning might be, but for a religious person its not a way out, they "know" they will be punished for it and that things will be much worse in the after life.

When that said, the happiest nation according to the World Happiness Report is Denmark, which is coincidentally also the 3rd least religious country in the world.
The first majority muslim country to appear on that list is UAE a 28th spot, Saudi on 34th spot and on the 76th spot we have Somalia.

----

Back to the main topic, why do people stereotype religious people as miserable. I dont. What ever makes you happy. as long as you're not trying to convert me, i dont care what you do with your life.

I have gotten a lot happier. Just saying

 

[Hafez]

@Hafez I have a question about the topic of Sunnah. Do you agree we need to separate out the culture from the religious ideology?

The Prophet Muhammad was not only a prophet in the religious sense. he was a man, an Arab Qureishi , and a 7th century person, was he not. So shouldn't the Sunnah (way) of the prophet be informed by all of these considerations. Maybe the Prophet licked his fingers after eating his favorite Arabian food (honey, meat and wild birds). For example had he been Chinese man that would be chopsticks and chow mein, and he would not have licked his fingers. Had he been French it would have been a knife and fork with a croissant, had he been Ethiopian it would have been ingera and Wot. None of this is an aspect of the faith, but a cultural trend, which is inescapable

But the Islamic etiquettes of eating and leaving space for breathing however are acultural, and applicable independent of peoples culture.

No sxb. A large number of aspects from the Prophet (SAW)'s life is actually Sunnah that one will be rewarded for. There are some that are completely based on the culture at the time, so one is not rewarded for emulating these particular acts. For example wearing the Imaamah. Some Scholars rule it to be a Sunnah (that one will be rewarded for) while some Scholars are of the opinion that it was based on the culture at the time, so one will not be rewarded for wearing an Imaamah (this seems to be the wrong opinion, but for argument's sake).

There's a difference between Sunnah and customary, although some customary can also be Sunnah. Licking your fingers after eating is a Sunnah that one will be rewarded for; such a thing was not customary at the time. The Prophet (SAW) ate with 3 of his fingers, this was not customary either. He also sat on the floor when eating, this was not customary especially among the eminent.

This doesn't mean though, that everyone should be forced to eat the way the Prophet (SAW) did. Whoever wants to (and seeks the reward of Allah SWT doing so), then that's good for them. Whoever wants to use knife and fork can also do that although they would not be rewarded for this.

Culture should be based on the Qur'an and Sunnah. If a specific aspect of a culture is unislamic, then it should be amended so that it's not contradictory to Islam. If it's not contradictory to slamic teachings, then there's nothing wrong with adopting it. Indeed some of the waajibaat and faraaidh can play a huge role in the culture of a society.

 

[Geeljire]

There is underlying reason for this that you're ignoring.

People in the west that comits suicide see it as an easy way out. A way to escape their desperation or their sickness, what ever their reasoning might be, but for a religious person its not a way out, they "know" they will be punished for it and that things will be much worse in the after life.

When that said, the happiest nation according to the World Happiness Report is Denmark, which is coincidentally also the 3rd least religious country in the world.
The first majority muslim country to appear on that list is UAE a 28th spot, Saudi on 34th spot and on the 76th spot we have Somalia.

That's one way of interpreting it . Another way would be for spiritual reasons, that they are not tied to materialistic things. Their life has meaning and purpose to carry on with life and place importance on things that have actual value like ( community, moral purification, bettering oneself and begin to view life & simple act of living as a blessing , resilience --- all associated with religion. While atheists who have high suicides rates feel empty, de-spirited unable to cope with life as they have revoked their own sense of ''Being''.

That's not valid because the World Happiness Report , does not measure peoples Life satisfaction or Self worth . They only measure, living standard and govt supported Welfare.. Happiness is a mental or emotional state of well-being.

Here is a more accurate measurement done by ONS

''According to figures published as part of the Office for National Statistics (ONS) “well-being” research programme people, people who say they have no religious affiliation report lower levels of happiness, life satisfaction and self-worth than those who do.''
http://webarchive.nationalarchives....ttp://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171776_400162.pdf

This actually shows that religious people are more happier then non religious people from an emotional and mental stand point.

"Religion usually comes strong social support which is a recognized protective factor against psychological trauma."
Dr Paul McLaren, the Priory

 

[Geeljire]

No sxb. A large number of aspects from the Prophet (SAW)'s life is actually Sunnah that one will be rewarded for. There are some that are completely based on the culture at the time, so one is not rewarded for emulating these particular acts. For example wearing the Imaamah. Some Scholars rule it to be a Sunnah (that one will be rewarded for) while some Scholars are of the opinion that it was based on the culture at the time, so one will not be rewarded for wearing an Imaamah (this seems to be the wrong opinion, but for argument's sake).

There's a difference between Sunnah and customary, although some customary can also be Sunnah. Licking your fingers after eating is a Sunnah that one will be rewarded for; such a thing was not customary at the time. The Prophet (SAW) ate with 3 of his fingers, this was not customary either. He also sat on the floor when eating, this was not customary especially among the eminent.

This doesn't mean though, that everyone should be forced to eat the way the Prophet (SAW) did. Whoever wants to (and seeks the reward of Allah SWT doing so), then that's good for them. Whoever wants to use knife and fork can also do that although they would not be rewarded for this.

Culture should be based on the Qur'an and Sunnah. If a specific aspect of a culture is unislamic, then it should be amended so that it's not contradictory to Islam. If it's not contradictory to slamic teachings, then there's nothing wrong with adopting it. Indeed some of the waajibaat and faraaidh can play a huge role in the culture of a society.

Ok I see thanks. I will look more into this topic.

 

[Hafez]

Ok I see thanks. I will look more into this topic.

To add to my previous post, if you're suggesting that customary aspects (of 7th century Arabia) should not interfere with the culture of a society, then that's up to the people to decide. One will not be rewarded for emulating that which is ruled to be customary. We are not ordered to make our societies exactly like 7th century Arabia. It would be better if the Sunnah (not customaries) were part of the culture of a Muslim society (for obvious reasons).

Edit: I don't think it's a good idea to adopt customaries from other societies either. There's no reason to, unless it serves a particular benefit. The Somali culture is beautiful and should remain as it is.

 

[Suxuufi]

@Hafez rageedi breaking down difference between 3rf wa sunnah

Ya sheekh al mashayikh

 

[You]

@Geeljire then i could pick out a quote from some paper that supported my view. You would read my reply and find a quote supporting your view, and we would go back and fourth like this for a while. Lets just skip all that.

Religion have been prevalent all through history, and there is a reason for that. It gives people a sense of reason. It gives order to the chaos, and answers many of really philosophical questions. Like why are we here, whats my purpose, etc. It gives people a sort of calmness knowing that everything happens for a reason, and that there is something bigger then them. That is why you sometimes here people say they found happiness in god, which is just another way of saying that they found purpose in life. If you dont know what you want in life you will have a hard time, religious people have that given to them by their religion, where as us atheist have to find that our self.

So i can see how someone could come to that conclusion.

But then again religion courses a lot of trouble, and holds many outdated views. If you want to give up your life for some fake happiness then go ahead, i am not stopping you. I would rather make my own purpose in life, be happy on my own, and do things because i want to, not because i am trying to get a ticket for some promised after life.

 

[Hafez]

@Geeljire then i could pick out a quote from some paper that supported my view. You would read my reply and find a quote supporting your view, and we would go back and fourth like this for a while. Lets just skip all that.

Religion have been prevalent all through history, and there is a reason for that. It gives people a sense of reason. It gives order to the chaos, and answears many of really philophofical questions. Like why are we here, whats my popuse, etc. It gives people a sort of calmness knowing that everything happends for a reason, and that there is something bigger then them. That is why you sometimes here people say they found happiness in god, which is just another way of saying that they found purpose in life. If you dont know what you want in life you will have a hard time, religious people have that given to them by their religion, where as us atheist have to find that our self.

So i can see how someone could come to that conclusion.

But then again religion courses a lot of trouble, and holds many outdated views. If you want to give up your life for some fake happiness then go ahead, i am not stopping you. I would rather make my own purpose in life, be happy on my own, and do things because i want to, not because i am trying to get a ticket for some promised after life.

It's not all about answering "philosophical" questions. It's about our lifestyles too. We keep ties of kinship, give alms to the poor, etc. this contributes to our overall happiness no doubt.

http://religionnews.com/2016/04/12/happiness-christians-nones-pew-research/

The above is about Christians as well and not even Muslims. No doubt we Muslims do the aforementioned activities a lot more frequently.

"Muslims ‘Give Most To Charity’, Ahead Of Christians, Jews And Atheists, Poll Finds"
http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/3630830.html?edition=uk

We are allowed to do anything as long as it does not involve the haraam (e.g. Alcohol, zinaa, gambling, etc).

Edit: I'm not saying that atheists can't perform the aforementioned actions, they are free to do as they wish. If an atheist (for example) gives in charity, they don't genuinely believe that they are rewarded for it in the afterlife. There are many factors as to why religious people are happier and more content with life than atheists.

 

[Geeljire]

@Geeljire then i could pick out a quote from some paper that supported my view. You would read my reply and find a quote supporting your view, and we would go back and fourth like this for a while. Lets just skip all that.

Whats stops you. The study you sighted World Happiness Report did not measure happiness in the sense of mental and emotional well being which is the definition of ''Happiness''. but rather just relative accumulated materialism and sponsored wealth. Its not substantiated because ''Wealth'' does not equal ''Life satisfaction'' or ''Self worth''.

Its not about quoting a study its about argumenting it. The study itself is just a reference.

Religion have been prevalent all through history, and there is a reason for that. It gives people a sense of reason. It gives order to the chaos, and answears many of really philophofical questions. Like why are we here, whats my popuse, etc. It gives people a sort of calmness knowing that everything happends for a reason, and that there is something bigger then them. That is why you sometimes here people say they found happiness in god, which is just another way of saying that they found purpose in life. If you dont know what you want in life you will have a hard time, religious people have that given to them by their religion, where as us atheist have to find that our self.

So in other words Religion fulfills the human sense of ''Being'' while Atheism revokes the human sense of ''Being''. Hence why religion is a good function while Atheism is a bad function. You are miserable and we are not. You commit suicide and we do not because you are empty de spirited and void of purpose & meaning.

Spiritual systems are found, without exception, in every indigenous society; independent of geography, independent of ethnicity and independent of time.

Like one former Atheist said: ''if you remove God , you remove ''Being'' and us humans got to transcend that and become God ourselves to cope with that''

As a result Atheists see the harm because humans are not God's.

 

[You]

It's not all about answering "philosophical" questions. It's about our lifestyles too. We keep ties of kinship, give alms to the poor, etc. this contributes to our overall happiness no doubt.

http://religionnews.com/2016/04/12/happiness-christians-nones-pew-research/

The above is about Christians as well and not even Muslims. No doubt we Muslims do the aforementioned activities a lot more frequently. We are allowed to do anything as long as it does not involve the haraam (e.g. Alcohol, zinaa, gambling, etc).

"We are allowed to do anything as long as it does not involve the haraam (e.g. Alcohol, zinaa, gambling, etc)." Thats not anything now is it?

 

[You]

So in other words Religion fulfills the human sense of ''Being'' while Atheism revokes the human sense of ''Being''. Hence why religion is a good function while Atheism is a bad function. You are miserable and we are not. You commit suicide and we do not because you are empty de spirited and void of purpose & meaning.

What is this? do you speak for every Muslim now? okay, lets do this then. You do not commit suicide because you think you will end up in hell. They are two different things you cant really compare them. For non believes its an easy way out, for believers its a ticket to hell. ofcouse believers would be less likely to do it, why would you end you life just to go to hell. No matter how spiritual you are or how much purpose you have, no sane person would commit suicide if they thought hell was waiting for them.

Spiritual systems are found, without exception, in every indigenous society; independent of geography, independent of ethnicity and independent of time.'

Yeah, because they needed something to make sense of it all. There was alot of things we didn't know back then, that all seemed like magic. Today we have science that does a pretty good job at explain many things that use to be "magic". Sure science doesn't have all the answers, but i would rather believe in something that can be proven then something i have to take on faith.

 

[Geeljire]

What is this? do you speak for every Muslim now? okay, lets do this then. You do not commit suicide because you think you will end up in hell. They are two different things you cant really compare them. For non believes its an easy way out, for believers its a ticket to hell. ofcouse believers would be less likely to do it, why would you end you life just to go to hell. No matter how spiritual you are or how much purpose you have, no sane person would commit suicide if they thought hell was waiting for them.

I speak for religious people from a general stance. We do not commit suicide, because we have meaning and purpose in life. Because our religion preaches resilience and love for life and value of living. That's we are happier in general than Atheists.


While atheists like you said and I quote your own post :

That is why you sometimes here people say they found happiness in god, which is just another way of saying that they found purpose in life. If you dont know what you want in life you will have a hard time, religious people have that given to them by their religion, where as us atheist have to find that our self

These are your own words bro. By removing God you remove ''Being''. You are indirectly saying Atheism is a bad function harmful mentally & emotionally and Religion is good function because it relieves mental & emotional distress.

Yeah, because they needed something to make sense of it all. There was alot of things we didn't know back then, that all seemed like magic. Today we have science that does a pretty good job at explain many things that use to be "magic". Sure science doesn't have all the answers, but i would rather believe in something that can be proven then something i have to take on faith.

Not reallly. Religion allowed the formation of sophisticated human societies. Centralizing ethics meant that people could live in harmonious and productive relationships with each other:

Thou shall not kill people of your own group, thou shall not steal, and thou shall not break ones marriage vows. And these are not laws exclusive to the Bible, but from Ancient Egypt 1000s of years before the Judeo-Christian world emerged.

So spiritual systems are found. You cannot divorce Religion from reality how it played and plays a critical role in the formation of civilizations and thus is a central aspect of our very humanity.

"We are allowed to do anything as long as it does not involve the haraam (e.g. Alcohol, zinaa, gambling, etc)." Thats not anything now is it?

Living is not without its exceptions. Being Human means exercising restraint , resisting urge, resisting temptations and having limits.

 

[You]

I speak for religious people in a general perspective. We do not commit suicide, because we have meaning and purpose in life. Because uor religion preaches resilience and love for life and value of living.

While atheists like you said and I quote your own post :


These are your own words bro. By removing God you remove ''Being''.



Not reallly. Religion allowed the formation of sophisticated human societies. Centralizing ethics meant that people could live in harmonious and productive relationships with each other:

Thou shall not kill people of your own group, thou shall not steal, and thou shall not break ones marriage vows. And these are not laws exclusive to the Bible, but from Ancient Egypt 1000s of years before the Judeo-Christian world emerged.

So spiritual systems are found. You cannot divorce Religion from reality how it played and plays a critical role in the formation of civilizations and thus is a central aspect of our very humanity.



Living is not without its exceptions. Being Human means exercising restraint , resisting urge, resisting temptations and having limits.[/user]

We all need some purpose, and i find that in my self. I dont need some external source tell me what purpose in life is. If you find that in religion then good for you. I am not here to limit peoples religious freedom. I don't care if you're Muslim, christian, Jew or an atheist. If you're happy, then keep doing what you're doing.

You tell me what good religion does for the world nowadays. All the major scientific advances, all the big inventions are all done by mostly non believers. I mean just look in the middle east, total chaos. Then look at Scandinavian countries, majority atheists, doing a lot better then any religious country you can find.

Religion is outdated. At some point in the past you could argue that it was a good thing, but its not anymore. Time to let go of the training wheels.

 

[Geeljire]

We all need some purpose, and i find that in my self. I dont need some external source tell me what purpose in life is. If you find that in religion then good for you. I am not here to limit peoples religious freedom. I don't care if you're Muslim, christian, Jew or an atheist. If you're happy, then keep doing what you're doing.

What is purpose without meaning? There is no meaning without Spiritual systems. Religion is an instinctive aspect of human nature with survival benefits to it.

Without it all you have is Nihilism. We all know how detrimental that is to the human psyche. This is why Atheists are less happier and more suicidal.

You tell me what good religion does for the world nowadays. All the major scientific advances, all the big inventions are all done by mostly non believers. I mean just look in the middle east, total chaos. Then look at Scandinavian countries, majority atheists, doing a lot better then any religious country you can find.

Religion is outdated. At some point in the past you could argue that it was a good thing, but its not anymore. Time to let go of the training wheels.

I find it really ironic religion gets full billing anytime a building is blown up, but rarely credited for its role in shaping all the things we take for granted. No need push myths science and religion co-exist in many parts of the world.

There is nothing in any major world religion that automatically creates war and chaos. For all the accusations of violence and Islam where is this so-called violence in Muslim communities which have some of the lowest crime rates in the world. Anyone who has visited Morocco or any Muslim majority country would struggle to feel a threat from natural civilian violence. And we cannot consider war torn Iraq., or Syria as that is a war zone created by Politics and Western interest. You could walk almost anywhere in Iran without worry, even in parts of Palestine or Lebanon. Islamic countries are extremely peaceful compared to their Western counterparts.

To me saying spiritual systems are outdated is like saying drinking ''Water'' is outdated. You even testify to its great function yet deny or dismiss it as irrelevant when its proved to be inconvenient to your arguments.

 

[Hafez]

"We are allowed to do anything as long as it does not involve the haraam (e.g. Alcohol, zinaa, gambling, etc)." Thats not anything now is it?

"as long as it does not involve the haraam (e.g. Alcohol, zinaa, gambling, etc)."

This part clearly went over your head.

Prohibited actions such as gambling, drinking alcohol, etc. lead to depression anyway; you do realise that right? We are not missing out of anything if we're not engaging in the aforementioned activities.

 

[Hafez]

We all need some purpose, and i find that in my self. I dont need some external source tell me what purpose in life is. If you find that in religion then good for you. I am not here to limit peoples religious freedom. I don't care if you're Muslim, christian, Jew or an atheist. If you're happy, then keep doing what you're doing.

You tell me what good religion does for the world nowadays. All the major scientific advances, all the big inventions are all done by mostly non believers. I mean just look in the middle east, total chaos. Then look at Scandinavian countries, majority atheists, doing a lot better then any religious country you can find.

Religion is outdated. At some point in the past you could argue that it was a good thing, but its not anymore. Time to let go of the training wheels.

What makes religion outdated in this particular era? Why is religion susceptible to being outdated in our era and not 5 centuries ago (for example)? Is it because the buildings have become loftier? Or that we can communicate across the globe using modern technological devices? The nature of humans has not changed at all and will never change (regardless of how "advanced" they become), thus religion can never be outdated. How does having religious beliefs prevent one from becoming technologically advanced? Most (over 99%) of the scientific discoveries in the history of mankind were from people who believed in a superior being(s).

The notion that majority of the modern breakthroughs are coming from irreligious scientists is a fabrication. A large number of scientists are theists. The idea that science is incompatible with religion is a myth.

Here are the facts:
- Islam does not prevent Muslims from becoming technologically advanced, in fact this is encouraged.
- Religious people are generally happier than atheists.
- Refraining from prohibited actions increases our happiness (as these actions mostly lead to depression, anxiety, etc) and general well-being.
- The social, political and economical turmoil that Muslim countries are currently experiencing was not influenced by Islamic teachings and has nothing to do with religion.

These are irrefutable facts. Slowly take your L sxb.

According to the Prophet (SAW) "God loves that, when a servant does something, he perfects it" - Reported by Bayhaqi.

Islam is the religion of excellence.