Will the self-declared state show East Africa how it’s done?

[Merchant of Mogadishu]

Nah stuck up , SL getting recognition is the best thing that could happen to Somalis. Being tied down to Somalia is detrimental to Somaliland in every way you can imagine. As far as I'm concerned, rest of Somalis outside SL can F off.

Who are you sxb?


Again these SL people just love to insult when they know they can't coherently make an argument. Cowardice.

Being so called "tied down" to Somalia is the cure for Somaliland's epidemic of "Muh Qabiil" Syndrome. A sense of unity and brotherhood is needed in this time of instability. We need to help each other out. Division will only help the foreigners gain more power in the Horn.

 

[Merchant of Mogadishu]

Yes, you have condemned the 4.5 system several times and I commend you for that, but why are you allowed to be an apologist for this clan based state whilst derailing every SL related thread? Why are you not derailing every Somalia related thread by posting your usual diatribe of "muh qabiil" and "poisoned and brainwashed by politicians"?

Sxb, I hate the 4.5 system as much as you do, probably even more. I don't know why you seem to think I'm an apologist when I have criticised non SLanders many times before. For instance, some Puntites have called for secession, or wanted to move the capital are also suffering from "Muh Qabiil" Syndrome. "Muh Qabiil" Syndrome may be much more prevalent in SL but it isn't exclusive to that region.

P.S. you can diagnose me with "muh qabiil" syndrome now

Sxb I already knew you had "Muh Qabiil" Syndrome. No need to diagnose you. You need to be cured.

 

[Frazier]

Who are you sxb?


Again these SL people just love to insult when they know they can't coherently make an argument. Cowardice.

Being so called "tied down" to Somalia is the cure for Somaliland's epidemic of "Muh Qabiil" Syndrome. A sense of unity and brotherhood is needed in this time of instability. We need to help each other out. Division will only help the foreigners gain more power in the Horn.

Its the truth your running away from and that's why you can't answer my question. Unity and brotherhood futada gali TIA and every group looks after itself. Simply put, singing Kumbaya and brotherhood will not bring us development and progress as evident by past decades.

The real cowards are the people who support Somalia's 4.5 and appose SL 1 man 1 vote and its right to self determination.

 

[Frazier]

Sxb, I hate the 4.5 system as much as you do, probably even more. I don't know why you seem to think I'm an apologist when I have criticised non SLanders many times before. For instance, some Puntites have called for secession, or wanted to move the capital are also suffering from "Muh Qabiil" Syndrome. "Muh Qabiil" Syndrome may be much more prevalent in SL but it isn't exclusive to that region.

One could argue you also suffer from "muh Qabiil" syndrome because you are reluctant to change the capital into a stable Somali city. Xamar has proven time and time again that its a security threat to Somalia's progress and cannot for time being host the Somali government. But of course "The Merchant of Mogadishu" will appose this move because it will curb the political influence of Somali clans dominating Mogadishu.

 

[Merchant of Mogadishu]

Its the truth your running away from and that's why you can't answer my question. Unity and brotherhood futada gali TIA and every group looks after itself. Simply put, singing Kumbaya and brotherhood will not bring us development and progress as evident by past decades.

The real cowards are the people who support Somalia's 4.5 and appose SL 1 man 1 vote and its right to self determination.

Every group looks after itself you are right. However, there is one 1 group and its Somali. Somalis must stick together. No singing wont get us anywhere, however, co operation in terms of development of the economy, infrastructure, etc is needed. Clan reconciliation and unity will lead to that co operation.

I have never ever supported 4.5 system. I hate it and it is dragging Somalia through the mud. I support 1 man 1 vote, but not secession as it is illegal. Just look at the mess in Catalonia, would've been averted if the Catalan regional government just followed the rules.

 

[Merchant of Mogadishu]

One could argue you also suffer from "muh Qabiil" syndrome because you are reluctant to change the capital into a stable Somali city. Xamar has proven time and time again that its a security threat to Somalia's progress and cannot for time being host the Somali government. But of course "The Merchant of Mogadishu" will appose this move because it will curb the political influence of Somali clans dominating Mogadishu.

Well you see, have you ever heard of the phrase, treat the cause, not the symptoms?

Don't you think that no matter where the capital goes, Al Shabaab will follow that capital because they care about what IN that capital, not what the capital is. The symptoms are bombings, the cause are Al Shabaab, they are the ones who must be stopped.

I don't oppose this because "Muh Qabiil", I am immune from "Muh Qabiil" Syndrome. I don't care what clans dominate Mogadishu, even if that clan was Darood or Isaaq I would still wholeheartedly support the capital because it is the capital of ALL Somalis, where all the central governmental institutions are located and its history. Its common sense that the capital is Mogadishu.

 

[scheinwelt]

You see the problem is, I'm just saying that elections won't bring independence, no matter how democratic they may seem.
(...)
the south and the north. It will only benefit the foreigners.

I fail to see how it will only benefit foreigners.

Being so called "tied down" to Somalia is the cure for Somaliland's epidemic of "Muh Qabiil" Syndrome. A sense of unity and brotherhood is needed in this time of instability. We need to help each other out. Division will only help the foreigners gain more power in the Horn.

A sense of unity and brotherhood among the Somali people is still possible with an independent Somaliland. So is helping each other out. On top of that, having 2 Somali-inhabited countries (or 3 if you count Djibouti) = much more voting power internationally! In the horn, you can speak up with two united voices against Kenya and Ethiopia (until they also become your buddies). You can be a real cool gang, like Visengrad Group in Europe or the Nordic or Baltic States. Heck I even feel unity and brotherhood with French people and Swiss people and Austrian people.

This is the path to reconciliation - voluntary fusion will not happen from Somaliland side, so maybe you should look at realistic options. Having both countries on the same level (Somaliland recognised, Somalia at peace) is the foundation for peace and prosperity in the region. And who knows - maybe fusion will come by itself.

Mantra-like repetition of "Muh Qabiil" will not help and doesn't constitute a legit argument. Even you admit the Somalia system is broken at the moment, so how could - realistically - reconciliation and union even happen in the near future?

 

[Frazier]

Every group looks after itself you are right. However, there is one 1 group and its Somali. Somalis must stick together. No singing wont get us anywhere, however, co operation in terms of development of the economy, infrastructure, etc is needed. Clan reconciliation and unity will lead to that co operation.

I have never ever supported 4.5 system. I hate it and it is dragging Somalia through the mud. I support 1 man 1 vote, but not secession as it is illegal. Just look at the mess in Catalonia, would've been averted if the Catalan regional government just followed the rules.

We're not talking about Secession, I'm talking about you fixation with muh Qabiil and support of a tribal based SFG.

Enough with playing with words and PC. You either own it or outright reject it. You can't be playing on both sides, at one you support Somali unity and SFG, on another turn around and disown 4.5! That's a coward and move. The pioneer of "muh Qabiil" can't get himself to support 4.5 but otherwise pledge his full support to SFG headed by Farmajo.

That would be like me saying I support Somaliland but not Silanyo


Somalis can't stick together as unified group as direct result of civil war and inter clan rivalries and we are better off separated instead of being tied down together in this big crab bucket called Somalia. Anyone telling you anything else a straight up lair.

 

[Frazier]

Well you see, have you ever heard of the phrase, treat the cause, not the symptoms?

Don't you think that no matter where the capital goes, Al Shabaab will follow that capital because they care about what IN that capital, not what the capital is. The symptoms are bombings, the cause are Al Shabaab, they are the ones who must be stopped.

I don't oppose this because "Muh Qabiil", I am immune from "Muh Qabiil" Syndrome. I don't care what clans dominate Mogadishu, even if that clan was Darood or Isaaq I would still wholeheartedly support the capital because it is the capital of ALL Somalis, where all the central governmental institutions are located and its history. Its common sense that the capital is Mogadishu.

Its common knowledge that AlShabab are offered sanctions by marginalized and minority clans in south Somalia who also populate diverse riverine regions of Juba and Shabille. Mogadishu as capital city of Somalia has big and diverse base of disenfranchised youth who hail from minorities and make up the support base for AS.

So the the smart thing to do is moving the capital somewhere else. But I predict that won't sit well with you Muh Qabiil professor.

 

[Merchant of Mogadishu]

A sense of unity and brotherhood among the Somali people is still possible with an independent Somaliland. So is helping each other out. On top of that, having 2 Somali-inhabited countries (or 3 if you count Djibouti) = much more voting power internationally! In the horn, you can speak up with two united voices against Kenya and Ethiopia (until they also become your buddies). You can be a real cool gang, like Visengrad Group in Europe or the Nordic or Baltic States. Heck I even feel unity and brotherhood with French people and Swiss people and Austrian people.

You need to realise that SLanders have been taught by villainous and corrupt politicians to hate their southern brethren, so why do you think SL and Somalia will be allies once SL gets recognition? The answer to that question is that they will not be allies, they will be rivals trying to dominate the Horn. Whenever there will be a dispute between, Somalia and Somaliland, Ethiopia shall side with Somaliland, because they want to further break apart the unity of the Somali people. Foreigners like they, are the ones who will benefit from this, their ultimate goal is to become hegemon of the Horn.

This type of unity is impossible for Somalia, that unity is a weak one, the slightest disagreement and it will collapse. Just look at Brexit, look a the far right parties trying to dominate European politics, Somali don't need weak unity. We need a strong one, a united country, so everyone will enjoy the fruits of development.

This is the path to reconciliation - voluntary fusion will not happen from Somaliland side, so maybe you should look at realistic options. Having both countries on the same level (Somaliland recognised, Somalia at peace) is the foundation for peace and prosperity in the region. And who knows - maybe fusion will come by itself.

No it is not, because as I have said before, once SL gets its recognition, the doors will be open, it will be able to rival Somalia for resources, when the best option is to unite and share the resources, so no one is left out.

Mantra-like repetition of "Muh Qabiil" will not help and doesn't constitute a legit argument. Even you admit the Somalia system is broken at the moment, so how could - realistically - reconciliation and union even happen in the near future?

I never said reconciliation will happen in the near future. The fact is, it won't so for the time being SL is still an illegal secessionist state, it is just a mere federal state like everyone else. Clan reconciliation and unity is the way forward not division, surely a German like you would know that, how would you feel if all the work of Otto Von Bismarck was ruined and all the states in Germany declared independence?

"Muh Qabiil" Syndrome is real when a state that calls for independence is calling it because of "Muh Qabiil" got massacred when in actual fact many qabiils got killed but only they are calling for independence.

 

[Merchant of Mogadishu]

Its common knowledge that AlShabab are offered sanctions by marginalized and minority clans in south Somalia who also populate diverse riverine regions of Juba and Shabille. Mogadishu as capital city of Somalia has big and diverse base of disenfranchised youth who hail from minorities and make up the support base for AS.

So the the smart thing to do is moving the capital somewhere else. But I predict that won't sit well with you Muh Qabiil professor.

There is 0% logic to what you have just said.

You mentioned the causes, but again moving the capital won't do anything because those minority clans will still be ostracised. Those minority clans need to be properly integrated and cared for, by the society so that they don't join AL Shabaab. How can you not get that simple solution?

 

[Frazier]

You need to realise that SLanders have been taught by villainous and corrupt politicians to hate their southern brethren, so why do you think SL and Somalia will be allies once SL gets recognition? The answer to that question is that they will not be allies, they will be rivals trying to dominate the Horn. Whenever there will be a dispute between, Somalia and Somaliland, Ethiopia shall side with Somaliland, because they want to further break apart the unity of the Somali people. Foreigners like they, are the ones who will benefit from this, their ultimate goal is to become hegemon of the Horn.

This type of unity is impossible for Somalia, that unity is a weak one, the slightest disagreement and it will collapse. Just look at Brexit, look a the far right parties trying to dominate European politics, Somali don't need weak unity. We need a strong one, a united country, so everyone will enjoy the fruits of development.

And what guarantees there will be no foreign intervention on fedral level? We have seen in Galkcayoo wars how Ethiopia stepped up and put the conflict on full stop. Ethiopia is the godfather of Southwest state and have the place on lockdown , any future disagreements and squabbles with central government will be handled and resolved by Ethiopia putting to rest your so called Somali-Somali co operation.

In Jubaland, Ahmed Madobe, a Somali leader of federal state openly appose his president and reports back to Kenya.

You still don't get it, Somalia now is the play ground of foreign powers, we are deeply divided in all but name so we might as well put end to this 0 sum games and secede.

 

[Frazier]

There is 0% logic to what you have just said.

You mentioned the causes, but again moving the capital won't do anything because those minority clans will still be ostracised. Those minority clans need to be properly integrated and cared for, by the society so that they don't join AL Shabaab. How can you not get that simple solution?

Obviously you will move it into a stable Somali town with track record on security and homogeneous population. I could think of no better than Garow.


But of coure its a wishfull thinking for muh qabiil duped masses of south Somalia and their fanatic apposition for a peaceful resolution to Somali's deadlock

 

[Merchant of Mogadishu]

We're not talking about Secession, I'm talking about you fixation with muh Qabiil and support of a tribal based SFG.

Nah stuck up , SL getting recognition is the best thing that could happen to Somalis. Being tied down to Somalia is detrimental to Somaliland in every way you can imagine. As far as I'm concerned, rest of Somalis outside SL can F off.

Does this ring any bells?

Enough with playing with words and PC. You either own it or outright reject it. You can't be playing on both sides, at one you support Somali unity and SFG, on another turn around and disown 4.5! That's a coward and move. The pioneer of "muh Qabiil" can't get himself to support 4.5 but otherwise pledge his full support to SFG headed by Farmajo.

That would be like me saying I support Somaliland but not Silanyo


Somalis can't stick together as unified group as direct result of civil war and inter clan rivalries and we are better off separated instead of being tied down together in this big crab bucket called Somalia. Anyone telling you anything else a straight up lair.

How? 4.5 and SFG are two separate things. You do know that the SFG can get rid of the 4.5 system, it is not inherently part of their government.

Why are we talking about Farmaajo? His presidency has been crap, SL still doesn't exist as a sovereign nation. Somalis can stick together, in fact they have in the past and they will be able to do so in the future, because division will only lead to continual hatred between Somalis, risking development and increasing the likelihood of foreign powers having more influence in the Horn.

 

[Prince Abubu]

I fail to see how it will only benefit foreigners.



A sense of unity and brotherhood among the Somali people is still possible with an independent Somaliland. So is helping each other out. On top of that, having 2 Somali-inhabited countries (or 3 if you count Djibouti) = much more voting power internationally! In the horn, you can speak up with two united voices against Kenya and Ethiopia (until they also become your buddies). You can be a real cool gang, like Visengrad Group in Europe or the Nordic or Baltic States. Heck I even feel unity and brotherhood with French people and Swiss people and Austrian people.

This is the path to reconciliation - voluntary fusion will not happen from Somaliland side, so maybe you should look at realistic options. Having both countries on the same level (Somaliland recognised, Somalia at peace) is the foundation for peace and prosperity in the region. And who knows - maybe fusion will come by itself.

Mantra-like repetition of "Muh Qabiil" will not help and doesn't constitute a legit argument. Even you admit the Somalia system is broken at the moment, so how could - realistically - reconciliation and union even happen in the near future?

You're conversing with a mentally handicapped individual. You'll get more sense from from a Trump-voter. He's just regurgitating the same tired old talking-points which have been refuted time and again.

The way I see it, Somaliland has f*ck all to do with him. He needs to go make General Mbute and Commander Haile Tigilu some tea, instead of having a epileptic fit about Somaliland.

 

[Frazier]

How? 4.5 and SFG are two separate things. You do know that the SFG can get rid of the 4.5 system, it is not inherently part of their government.

Why are we talking about Farmaajo? His presidency has been crap, SL still doesn't exist as a sovereign nation. Somalis can stick together, in fact they have in the past and they will be able to do so in the future, because division will only lead to continual hatred between Somalis, risking development and increasing the likelihood of foreign powers having more influence in the Horn.

No they are not. How do you think Farmajo was elected? A large body of clan elders vote him in as president. Those clan elders had this authority by 4.5 system of which each major clan is allocated a number of seats.

The embodiment of "muh Qabiil" you are supporting. I know its difficult to reflect back on your contradicting believes.

 

[Merchant of Mogadishu]

And what guarantees there will be no foreign intervention on fedral level? We have seen in Galkcayoo wars how Ethiopia stepped up and put the conflict on full stop. Ethiopia is the godfather of Southwest state and have the place on lockdown , any future disagreements and squabbles with central government will be handled and resolved by Ethiopia putting to rest your so called Somali-Somali co operation.

In Jubaland, Ahmed Madobe, a Somali leader of federal state openly appose his president and reports back to Kenya.

You still don't get it, Somalia now is the play ground of foreign powers, we are deeply divided in all but name so we might as well put end to this 0 sum games and secede.

Of course those foreign powers who are meddling in Somalia need to be sorted out first, which is why I have said that reconciliation between Somalia and Somaliland should take a back seat whilst we sort out more important problems. However, unity must be discussed once the priorities are sorted out.

 

[Frazier]

Does this ring any bells?

I planned to debate this later but go ahead and bring it on!

what do you have against SL becoming its own country and I'll shoot you down with any direct comparison to Somalia. Militarily, economically, politically, your argument hold no water.

 

[Merchant of Mogadishu]

You're conversing with a mentally handicapped individual. You'll get more sense from from a Trump-voter. He's just regurgitating the same tired old talking-points which have been refuted time and again.

The way I see it, Somaliland has f*ck all to do with him. He needs to go make General Mbute and Commander Haile Tigilu some tea, instead of having a epileptic fit about Somaliland.

Thanks for the insults, I know you are suffering but "Muh Qabiil" Syndrome can be cured.


Refuted? when have you refuted my points? Why don't you stop being a brain dead and try to refute the points I'm making instead of the insults.

 

[Merchant of Mogadishu]

No they are not. How do you think Farmajo was elected? A large body of clan elders vote him in as president. Those clan elders had this authority by 4.5 system of which each major clan is allocated a number of seats.

The embodiment of "muh Qabiil" you are supporting. I know its difficult to reflect back on your contradicting believes.

Yes, but again the government can get rid of the 4.5 system. 1 man 1 vote is possible to implement.

Sxb you are the one who is undoubtedly suffering from "Muh Qabiil" Syndrome.