GENETICS YFull Discussion Thread

[anonimo]

Then why is there no genetic link between Northern Somalis and Socotrans? Aren't they all j1?

Haplogroup T does not have a marked presence in Yemen either even though the assumption is that it is the most probable passageway used by the supposed ancestor/ancestors of T Somalis.

Bulliet asserted that Socotra was a conduit for the introduction of certain domesticated animals commonly associated with Somalis. It is within the realm of possibility that Bulliet's assertion can be linked to the presence of the Somali T lineage in Northern Somalia. Socotra is much closer to Northern Somalia than Yemen, hence, it would have been easier to transport livestock. Moreover, the date proposed by Bulliet compliments the current TMRCA of the Somali T lineage.

I am not saying that the above theory is watertight. Nonetheless, the fact that Somali clans were historically concentrated in the North-Eastern Horn than areas closer to Bab El Mandeb may indicate that the migration route taken was not necessarily the shortest crossing point between the Horn and Arabia. If Semites established themselves in Socotra, who is to say that a similar migration by sea did not directly bring the Somali T lineage to the North-Eastern horn?

 

[Apollo]

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Northern Somalis in the diaspora are richer.

J/k.

I think it is the stronger abtiris culture with Northerners. They want to see whether this abtiris shit checks out scientifically.

 

[Username]

Northern Somalis in the diaspora are richer.

J/k.

I think it is the stronger abtiris culture with Northerners. They want to see whether this abtiris shit checks out scientifically.

Fair enough.

 

[Moholin01]

Haplogroup T does not have a marked presence in Yemen either even though the assumption is that it is the most probable passageway used by the supposed ancestor/ancestors of T Somalis.

Bulliet asserted that Socotra was a conduit for the introduction of certain domesticated animals commonly associated with Somalis. It is within the realm of possibility that Bulliet's assertion can be linked to the presence of the Somali T lineage in Northern Somalia. Socotra is much closer to Northern Somalia than Yemen, hence, it would have been easier to transport livestock. Moreover, the date proposed by Bulliet compliments the current TMRCA of the Somali T lineage.

I am not saying that the above theory is watertight. Nonetheless, the fact that Somali clans were historically concentrated in the North-Eastern Horn than areas closer to Bab El Mandeb may indicate that the migration route taken was not necessarily the shortest crossing point between the Horn and Arabia. If Semites established themselves in Socotra, who is to say that a similar migration by sea did not directly bring the Somali T lineage to the North-Eastern horn?

So are you leaning towards an Easter Arabian origin, then? That would explain the Kuwaitis and the Eastern Saudi I've heard are on FTDNA.

Makes more sense since T-M184 is a mesopotamian lineage.

 

[anonimo]

So are you leaning towards an Easter Arabian origin, then? That would explain the Kuwaitis and the Eastern Saudi I've heard are on FTDNA.

How the FU.CK did you conclude I was suggesting that?

Makes more sense since T-M184 is a mesopotamian lineage.

How the FU.CK did you conclude that it is a Mespotamian lineage when it cannot be linked solely to one Eurasian region?

 

[Mujahid Nur Marehan]

How the FU.CK did you conclude I was suggesting that?



How the FU.CK did you conclude that it is a Mespotamian lineage when it cannot be linked solely to one Eurasian region?

 

[Apollo]

@Mujahid Nur Marehan

T exists almost everywhere in Western Eurasia at low frequency and has been spread around for thousands of years. Calling it Mesopotamian today is a bit weird. It was even found in some Ancient Moroccans who lived in Morocco 5,000 years ago.

 

[Moholin01]

How the FU.CK did you conclude I was suggesting that?

I asked if that was what you were leaning towards. I didn't claim that's what you actually believed.

How the FU.CK did you conclude that it is a Mespotamian lineage when it cannot be linked solely to one Eurasian region?

Mesopotamia is huge. It spans Iran to the eastern Mediterranean and southern Caucasus region. Even if it was not the focal point for T-haplogroup. It most likely was for T-Y16987.

Anyway, my question was asking about how you think T-Y45591 reached Somalia and from where since you seem to discount the Hijaz red sea coast hypothesis? You say Somali tribes originated East, which would make that impossible.

 

[Apollo]

Nobody knows the precise path of haplogroups. Ancient DNA (sequencing bones of people who died thousands of years ago) is required for that or a huge database of tens of thousands of samples from the relevant regions.

Only for European haplogroups (huge databases) can you make accurate migration paths. African and Middle Eastern lineages lack sample size, and for the Middle East there is Gulf Arab bias due to them testing substantially more because of wealth. The Levant, Iraq, Turkey, Armenia, Yemen etc are under sampled.

 

[Shimbiris]

Anything on the Hiran sample:

T-Y45591 YTree

www.yfull.com

?

 

[anonimo]

View attachment 185612

The ancient samples referenced in the above Wikipedia article will educate you on the difficulty of nailing haplogroup T-M184's origin to one particular Eurasian region.

I asked if that was what you were leaning towards. I didn't claim that's what you actually believed.





Mesopotamia is huge. It spans Iran to the eastern Mediterranean and southern Caucasus region. Even if it was not the focal point for T-haplogroup. It most likely was for T-Y16987.

Anyway, my question was asking about how you think T-Y45591 reached Somalia and from where since you seem to discount the Hijaz red sea coast hypothesis? You say Somali tribes originated East, which would make that impossible.

What I wrote did not suggest an Eastern Arabian origin for T-Y45591. It was directed at Apollo who has often referenced the Bab El Mandeb as being the entry point. I was not dismissing his theory but was just presenting an alternative theory.

I do not have the answers you seek about how my ancestor landed on these cursed shores, sorry.

 

[Shimbiris]

Some Somalis have become like Hoteps.

Forget oral History, historical records written by non-Horners, has Afars in the Bab El Mandeb area before Somalis, and they still occupy the African side of the Bab E-M.

Names transcribed on a historical map cannot be reasonably used to hypothesise that these are Somali clans when we do not know how they would have been pronounced in the respective native tongue.

Afars gradually lost some of their their Eastern territory to Somali Dir clans after the latter expanded beyond Zeila.

Afar's influence on Somali is as an adstrate and not a substrate which puts holes in any suggestions that they came before in areas like Zeila and were either absorbed or pushed out. There's also the fact that Dir subclans like the Guragura and the Habar Maqdi were found near Harar as early as 500 years ago according to the Futuh al-Habasha:

[The Somali tribes gather for the jihad ]

It was after this that the Mahra party and the sharif Muhammad reached the imam who feted their coming on account of the jihad ; and then he sent to all the districts of the Somalis and to the tribes of Harla. Then all the tribes rose up.

The first tribe to come up was the Habr Maqdi with their lord Garad Dawit, fifty knights and five-hundred foot-soldiers. After them the Marraihan came up, with their lord Ahmad bin Hirabu, with eighty knights and seven-hundred foot-soldiers. After them came up the Gorgorah with Garad 'Abd their chieftain, and thirty knights and one-thousand foot-soldiers.

Then the tribe of Girri came up, with their chieftain Garad Mattan along with eighty knights and one-thousand foot-soldiers. In the same way the tribe of Zarba came up from Harla with their lord the sultan Muhammad with twenty knights and three-hundred foot-soldiers. The tribes assembled - all of them volunteers and on good terms with one another. The number of the horses in readiness was around five-hundred, and there were twelve-thousand foot-soldiers, not to mention those who carried the provisions and other things besides.

​

And when al-Umari talks about the people of Zeila during the 1300s he mentions that they "cultivate two times annually by seasonal rains … The rainfall for the winter is called ‘Bil’ and rainfall for the ‘summer’ is called ‘Karam’ in the language of the people of Zayla" which are words more or less out of the Somali calendar and not used by Afars or any other group as far as I know. And I doubt whatever Somali group lived there at the time, a few hundred years before the Futuh, were Isaaq or Darood or something. Most likely Dirs. Dirs have been far west of the northeast for at least 500 years and I would bet money probably as much as 700-800 years going off of Umari.

 

[Mujahid Nur Marehan]

@Shimbiris Much of Afar region was Marahani.

 

[Mujahid Nur Marehan]

@Shimbiris notice Hawrarsame on the Afar map. Hawrarsame are one of the biggest Marehan clans recoded in Marehan oral history.

 

[Observer.]

Thanks for posting your preliminary results. We're both Makahil but I'm Yonis Muuse. I would like to see the brothers: Aden, Jibril, Nour and Ali Yonis with their results. As the story goes Nour is the youngest. I'm eager to see other Makahil subclans more broadly.

Let's not forget arm twisting Mahad Case sub clans (@awdalite) and Habar Afan sub clans for samples.

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Like @anonimo said I think Gadabuursi/Samaroon may have their own TMRCA.

My family's results may drop sometime this summer, Insh'Allah.

I’ll do the big Y test, for my Mahad case subclan when the price goes back down towards the end of the year & upload on Yfull inshallah. Btw who’s the new Djibouti sample on yfull ?

 

[Sophisticate]

I’ll do the big Y test, for my Mahad case subclan when the price goes back down towards the end of the year & upload on Yfull inshallah. Btw who’s the new Djibouti sample on yfull ?

The Djibouti Sample is @Alexis. At present, only @Awbarre posted his results. I'm still waiting on mine. Only then will it start to diverge.

My Dante Results are half-way done through sequencing so I hope to hear from them in the next month or two.

The price should go down by November. Try to convince other sub-clans from Mahad Case and Habar Afan to do it as well. I think @trucel is from MC as well. The more the merrier.

 

[Sophisticate]

I got my results from Dante. Sort of surprised they came earlier than anticipated. It will be a few days before it ends up on Yfull.

 

[Libaax-Joore]

I got my results from Dante. Sort of surprised they came earlier than anticipated. It will be a few days before it ends up on Yfull.

 

[Sophisticate]

View attachment 187809

Dante Labs delivery most of the time.

They were quick this time. It's only been 8 months since I purchased it.

 

[Libaax-Joore]

Dante Labs delivery most of the time.

They were quick this time. It's only been 8 months since I purchased it.

When u gonna upload to yfull