You aren’t as bad of a person if you impregnate and kill your mother compared to someone who asks the prophet to pray for them

[Diaspora ambassador]

Devil worship isn’t shirk, it’s open defiance of Allah SWT.

You cannot compare that to someone who only means well.

Walaal you are right to a certain degree.

Let's put it this way: both acts lead to hell.
To us muslims hell is not a place you want to be at.

So in our eyes both acts are viewed the same, because they both go to hell.

As a muslim commiting this act, your judgement and punishment will be severe, unless you were really that ignorant, however Allah knows best.

For the kaafirs hell is their destination.
Do you understand it now?

 

[Qeelbax]

Walaal you are right to a certain degree.

Let's put it this way: both acts lead to hell.
To us muslims hell is not a place you want to be at.

So in our eyes both acts are viewed the same, because they both go to hell.

As a muslim commiting this act, your judgement and punishment will be severe, unless you were really that ignorant, however Allah knows best.

For the kaafirs hell is their destination.
Do you understand it now?

Read what he posted. Until MIAW, it was done and not haram. You saying all of them before are going to hell?

 

[Grey Alien]

Can't he say that both things are wrong and proceed to explain why both scenarios are wrong and emphasize on zina, murder, and finally he can explain why shirk is the worst sin of all sins? Good grief.

 

[Haragwafi]

Is this modern day Salafis in a nutshell

Stupid example but still praying to the prophet intermediary to Allah is a great sin as that's what the Qureysh mushriken used to do with their idols being intermediary to Allah.

 

[Diaspora ambassador]

Read what he posted. Until MIAW, it was done and not haram. You saying all of them before are going to hell?

If they knew yes, if not. The ones that make them dwell in thoe acts is to blane.

Either way you know now its wrong.
If you want to commit the act of using the nabi as intermediate good luck with the punishment that will follow.

There is no one between Allah and his slaves. There is nothing to add to this sentence nor our blessed religion.

 

[Haragwafi]

This Salafis name is Abu Taymiyyah, hmmm… who was the first person in the history of the Ummah to condemn this righteous act of asking the Prophet (SAW) to make dua for him/her at his grave?

Imam Ibn Hajr al Haithami, in the chapter on Intermediation “BESEECHING FOR HELP” or Intercession through the Prophet (Peace be upon him)”: Amongst the evil deeds of Ibn Taymiyyah, something which nobody before him in this world proclaimed is his rejection of Istighatha (Beseeching for help) and Tawassul through Prophet (sal Allahu alayhi wasallam). This Tawassul through Prophet (sal Allahu alayhi wasallam) is Hassan (fair) in all conditions whether before his creation (i.e. him being sent to the world), after it (i.e. his death), also in this world and on Day of Judgment.

[Al-Jawhar al Munazzam fi Ziyaratil Qabril Muqarram, Page No. 171, Published by Dar ul Hawi, Beirut, Lebanon]

Tawassul and Istqatha to dead people grave is haram and is not what Allah swt and the prophet ﷺ taught us.

ألا وإنَّ من كان قبلَكم كانوا يتَّخذونَ قبورَ أنبيائِهم وصالِحِيهم مساجدَ ، ألا فلا تتَّخذوا القبورَ مساجدَ إني أنهاكُم عن ذلك​

“Those who preceded you used to take the graves of their prophets and righteous men as mosques, but you must not take graves as mosques; I forbid you to do that.”

الْأَرْضُ كُلُّهَا مَسْجِدٌ إِلَّا الْمَقْبَرَةَ وَالْحَمَّامَ

The entire earth has been made a place of prayer, except for graveyards and washrooms.

 

[Diaspora ambassador]

I don't get why people lie on the name of the last nabi pboh.
He is Allah's most beloved creation, the one where Allah invites humanity to put blessings on the nabi pbuh.
He is already being blessed by Allah and his angels.

Why risk lying on his name, i don't get it. The risk does not match the reward at all.

 

[Haragwafi]

كُنَّا مَعَ فَضَالَةَ بْنِ عُبَيْدٍ بِأَرْضِ الرُّومِ فَتُوُفِّيَ صَاحِبٌ لَنَا، فَأَمَرَ فَضَالَةُ بِقَبْرِهِ فَسُوِّيَ، ثُمَّ قَالَ ‏:‏ سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَأْمُرُ بِتَسْوِيَتِهَا ‏

"We were with Fadalah bin 'Ubaid in the land of the Romans, and a companion of ours died. Fadalah ordered that his grave be made level, then he said: 'I heard the Messenger of Allah commanding that it be made level."'

 

[Haragwafi]

Ibn Abbas reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said:

إِذَا سَأَلْتَ فَاسْأَلْ اللَّهَ وَإِذَا اسْتَعَنْتَ فَاسْتَعِنْ بِاللَّهِ
If you ask, ask from Allah. If you seek help, seek help from Allah.

 

[Aurelian]

Brain dead salafists

 

[Diaspora ambassador]

Brain dead salafists

On the day of judgement you will be asked of this.

I hope you are just trolling walaal.

Have your fiqh etc however don't make these mistakes which will be heavily punished.

 

[Aurelian]

On the day of judgement you will be asked of this.

I hope you are just trolling walaal.

Have your fiqh etc however don't make these mistakes which will be heavily punished.

he is a brain dead, and salafist. nothing wrong with what i said, if i got asked, I know what i'll say

 

[World]

Tawassul and Istqatha to dead people grave is haram and is not what Allah swt and the prophet ﷺ taught us.

ألا وإنَّ من كان قبلَكم كانوا يتَّخذونَ قبورَ أنبيائِهم وصالِحِيهم مساجدَ ، ألا فلا تتَّخذوا القبورَ مساجدَ إني أنهاكُم عن ذلك​

“Those who preceded you used to take the graves of their prophets and righteous men as mosques, but you must not take graves as mosques; I forbid you to do that.”

الْأَرْضُ كُلُّهَا مَسْجِدٌ إِلَّا الْمَقْبَرَةَ وَالْحَمَّامَ

The entire earth has been made a place of prayer, except for graveyards and washrooms.

do you seriously think i’m going to ignore all major classical scholars and listen to a qabilist isaaq who praised colonial foot soldiers for the british?

 

[Angelina]

do you seriously think i’m going to ignore all major classical scholars and listen to a qabilist isaaq who praised colonial foot soldiers for the british?

Tawassul through the Prophet s.a.w doesn’t make sense to me and It isn’t something I’ll do. However, I’m not going to call it shirk, especially if Ibn Taymiyya believed it was bid’ah rather than shirk and you have major classical scholars such as Imam Hanbali believing it is acceptable. In fact, the majority did think it was acceptable. From the Hanbalis to get Malikis, to the Shafis and Hanaf

@Haragwafi how do you reconcile with the fact that the vast majority of major scholars believed it is acceptable and the ones that didn’t such as ibn Taymiyyah regarded it as Bid’ah and not shirk.

Are we going to sit there and say they’re wrong? Are you going to say that they have allowed Shirk?

I was raised with the idea that it is blantant shirk. However, how can I condemn people for that when the majority of Muslim scholars believe it isn’t? I didn’t know this and learning this blew my mind.

 

[World]

Tawassul through the Prophet s.a.w doesn’t make sense to me and It isn’t something I’ll do. However, I’m not going to call it shirk, especially if Ibn Taymiyya believed it was bid’ah rather than shirk and you have major classical scholars such as Imam Hanbali believing it is acceptable.

@Haragwafi how do you reconcile with the fact that the vast majority of major scholars believed it is acceptable and the ones that didn’t such as ibn Taymiyyah regarded it as Bid’ah and not shirk.

Are we going to sit there and say they’re wrong?

end of the day ibn taymiyyah was a major scholar of islam, and there is nothing wrong with believing it’s haram and following his opinion. but labelling it shirk is outrageous and was invented by miaw which the speaker in the OP is following.

 

[Angelina]

end of the day ibn taymiyyah was a major scholar of islam, and there is nothing wrong with believing it’s haram and following his opinion. but labelling it shirk is outrageous and was invented by miaw which the speaker in the OP is following.

It’s the cognitive dissonance that doesn’t make sense to me with regards to some staunch Salafis. I get being against making Tawassuf through the prophet, but how do you claim to mostly follow the madhab of ibn Hanbali and obviously they have major respect for the vast majority of well known classical scholars but label people as deviants and followers of shirk by following the opinion of well…….Imam Hanbali. A little bit of consistency is important, come on.

At the end of the day, we’re all laymen and I’m sorry, the majority of laymen are going to feel a lot more comfortable taking the opinions of scholars who lived closer to the time of the Prophet s.a.w and funnily enough many classic scholars who did live near that time period believe it is allowed or merely Bid’ah rather than shirk.

 

[NordicSomali]

Just say don’t pray to the prophet, don’t make up disgusting examples.

 

[Celery]

Free advice: impregnating and murdering your mom is waaaaaaaaaaaay worse than anything else. This is very easy

 

[Geedi Ladane]

Shirk is

Tawassul through the Prophet s.a.w doesn’t make sense to me and It isn’t something I’ll do. However, I’m not going to call it shirk, especially if Ibn Taymiyya believed it was bid’ah rather than shirk and you have major classical scholars such as Imam Hanbali believing it is acceptable. In fact, the majority did think it was acceptable. From the Hanbalis to get Malikis, to the Shafis and Hanaf

@Haragwafi how do you reconcile with the fact that the vast majority of major scholars believed it is acceptable and the ones that didn’t such as ibn Taymiyyah regarded it as Bid’ah and not shirk.

Are we going to sit there and say they’re wrong? Are you going to say that they have allowed Shirk?

I was raised with the idea that it is blantant shirk. However, how can I condemn people for that when the majority of Muslim scholars believe it isn’t? I didn’t know this and learning this blew my mind.

Can you give a reference to what Muslim scholar believed it was acceptable to make dua to the Prophet peace be upon him after the Prophet was passed away?

To my knowledge the practice of making dua to the Prophet didn’t take place by the Sahaba and two generations after them, when he was dead.

 

[Hamzza]

This Salafis name is Abu Taymiyyah, hmmm… who was the first person in the history of the Ummah to condemn this righteous act of asking the Prophet (SAW) to make dua for him/her at his grave?

Imam Ibn Hajr al Haithami, in the chapter on Intermediation “BESEECHING FOR HELP” or Intercession through the Prophet (Peace be upon him)”: Amongst the evil deeds of Ibn Taymiyyah, something which nobody before him in this world proclaimed is his rejection of Istighatha (Beseeching for help) and Tawassul through Prophet (sal Allahu alayhi wasallam). This Tawassul through Prophet (sal Allahu alayhi wasallam) is Hassan (fair) in all conditions whether before his creation (i.e. him being sent to the world), after it (i.e. his death), also in this world and on Day of Judgment.

[Al-Jawhar al Munazzam fi Ziyaratil Qabril Muqarram, Page No. 171, Published by Dar ul Hawi, Beirut, Lebanon]

Scholars who were explicitly against Istighaatha before Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah rahimahu Allah.
1. Ibn Aqeel
2. Imam al Shaafici
3. Imam Ibn Khuzaymah
4. Imam Bayhaqi
5. Imam Abu Suleman Khatibi
6. Ibn Rajab al Hambali
7. Al Hajjaawi al Hambali
8. Al Bahuti al Hambali
9. Imam Fakhruddin Al Razi Al Ashari.....

This is what Imam Al Tabari said in his takfeer of Ayah:

وَإِذَا مَسَّكُمُ ٱلضُّرُّ فِى ٱلْبَحْرِ ضَلَّ مَن تَدْعُونَ إِلَّآ إِيَّاهُ ۖ فَلَمَّا نَجَّىٰكُمْ إِلَى ٱلْبَرِّ أَعْرَضْتُمْ ۚ وَكَانَ ٱلْإِنسَٰنُ كَفُورًا

"And when harm touches you at sea, lost are those you call upon except for Him. But when He delivers you to the land, you turn away..."

Iman Tabari (رحمه الله) says:

"You've lost those who you call upon besides Allah from the rivals (unto Him) and deities...-ولم تجدوا غير الله مغيثا يغيثكم دعوتموه -and you will not find besides Allah any helper who can help you when you call upon Him..."