54 years ago Mohamed Siyaad Barre took over the country in a bloodless coup which ultimately led to 21 years of rule before being ousted by terrorists, warlords, businessman and foreign interests.
54th Anniversary of the Kacaan
- Thread starter Somali Saayid
- Start date
54 years ago Mohamed Siyaad Barre took over the country in a bloodless coup which ultimately led to 21 years of rule before being ousted by terrorists, warlords, businessman and foreign interests.
Don't insult this man legacy or debate with rebels sent by menguistu or terrorists Trojans of arabs, you actually bring down his legacy to what Somalia looks like for 30 years due to those ppl. U can't put siyad govt and Somalia after siyad in the same sentence.
I walk away in disgust and so do my family when we see PL GOVT promoting ssdf and so do many majerteens who could compete under siyad meritocracy, the ones who hate him usually are the second rates who failed their national exams or got low scores and weren't rewarded with positions, they started the tribal card which unfortunately fooled alot of the locals and even their descendants.
@Somali Saayid
I don't accept anyone from my own bah dubays in osman mahmoud to ever speak of siyad disrespectfully let alone other majerten, ninkasi qabiil.maleh waa niin qaran. Siyad can never be equated with tribal or terrorist rebels. I don't care what they say about farmajo or other marehans but anyone saying shit about siyad in my presence gets a rude awakening.
I don't accept anyone from my own bah dubays in osman mahmoud to ever speak of siyad disrespectfully let alone other majerten, ninkasi qabiil.maleh waa niin qaran. Siyad can never be equated with tribal or terrorist rebels. I don't care what they say about farmajo or other marehans but anyone saying shit about siyad in my presence gets a rude awakening.
Tiyeglow
A Laandheere always pays his debts
Afweyne assassinated Madaxweyne Sharmarke, on the commands of the Soviets, to gain the position of power given Sharmarke was playing both sides in the Cold War. So his position at the top was never going to be one that had hope (add to that, the slaying of Ulema for going against 1975 Family Law which he *tried* to introduce so much policies that goes against Islam, the Somali way of life (e.g. polygyny, inheritance).
However, I will admit the first decade up to 1977, he was somewhat competent, whether that be Somalis seeing him as the next Sayiid, growing tired of the corrupt civil (democractic) govt, and just hoping for change. He brought in undeniably good policies (1975 Drought Campaign to move those affected to the South, 1974/75 Literacy Campaign which was UN award winning, 1977 WSLF and Somali army had most Western Somalia and had it not been for Cuban & Soviet support, Western Somalia would have been fully incorporated into Somalia).
Post-1977, his reign was a complete and utter disaster. From IMF & World Bank's introduction to Structural Adjustment Programs, him going senile, paranoid and demented post-car crash, divide & conquering guerilla forces, doing a deal with US & Reagan while somehow purporting to Socialist values. Had he stepped aside when the Manifesto Group came along, he would have somewhat been respected, let alone stepping aside post Ogaden defeat. 1988 onwards was the start of total anarchy, 1991 was just its peak. When assessing history, the civil war, by its true definition, began 1978 when SSDF emerged. It was a 15 year civil war (no different than Lebanon's 15 year civil war). The significance of mentioning it was a prolonged 15 year civil war is that it stops the reductionist 'clan fighting' barbaric rhetoric. It was a war fought on power, resources, direction of the nation, vision, etc. Which nearly all wars, yes Western nations included, have fought over. When we reduce it to 'Qabil wars' it firstly removes the blame from Afweyne even though he did instigate it and was the catalyst, but secondly, it makes it seem like Somali political turmoil is something unique and unprecedented. Political turmoil, especially with foreign powers interventing is something extremely common in 20th/21st century.
I didn't even touch on proper the impact that US funding Afweyne drying up when Soviet no longer became a threat and also when they stopped needing to utilise Berbera port for strategic reasons, after gaining the Fatwa by Sheikh Ibn Baz to use Saudi and Gulf base to attack Iraq. Of course Afweyne will go all out on dividing and conquering when his funds dried up and Soviet Union.
Afweyne is no different from any other dictator. Whoever tries to festoon his or any dictator's time with "but he did this while in charge" - the perfect response to them is: Yes, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. When you are in charge of all the resources and power within a nation, there is no doubt at the very least some of your policies, whether directly or indirectly will be successful and useful to the masses, however, that a) doesn't account for all the wickedness and treachery the dictator has done to the people b) how much more could a benevolent leader and a functioning govt do for the people, its innumberable.
My father was in Xalane in the mid 70's. Afweyne came to visit the camp where they housed 17-18 year olds for conscription, which was mandatory then. Afweyne came and they all had to go into salute command and my father always tells us it was racing through his brain should I be a martyr and assassinate him, my father has never called Afweyne by his real name. He found him objetionable, that bitterness partly came from him unrightfully dethroning Sharmarke but also destroying the civic unity that was established by SYL.
As for me, Afweyne and Caydiid were the two who destroyed our nation. The former tore apart the social fabric and the latter ignited it in fire. Yes there were other responsible actors (I actually happened to see Gen Morgan yesterday in Garowe), but those two will be questioned on the day of Judgement for what they did to Somalis and the lasting (negative) impact they have had, which will undoubtedly go on for our lifetime. Xamar would have been a more developed Mombasa, with all groups living together and a rational discussion of where to go next happening. Instead, we are left with a Bantustan-isation, foreign poweres meddling, AS controlling 1/4 of the land, and our name being synonymous with starvation, qaxooti, destitution and being indigents. Subhanallah, where has our Shaaraf gone.
However, I will admit the first decade up to 1977, he was somewhat competent, whether that be Somalis seeing him as the next Sayiid, growing tired of the corrupt civil (democractic) govt, and just hoping for change. He brought in undeniably good policies (1975 Drought Campaign to move those affected to the South, 1974/75 Literacy Campaign which was UN award winning, 1977 WSLF and Somali army had most Western Somalia and had it not been for Cuban & Soviet support, Western Somalia would have been fully incorporated into Somalia).
Post-1977, his reign was a complete and utter disaster. From IMF & World Bank's introduction to Structural Adjustment Programs, him going senile, paranoid and demented post-car crash, divide & conquering guerilla forces, doing a deal with US & Reagan while somehow purporting to Socialist values. Had he stepped aside when the Manifesto Group came along, he would have somewhat been respected, let alone stepping aside post Ogaden defeat. 1988 onwards was the start of total anarchy, 1991 was just its peak. When assessing history, the civil war, by its true definition, began 1978 when SSDF emerged. It was a 15 year civil war (no different than Lebanon's 15 year civil war). The significance of mentioning it was a prolonged 15 year civil war is that it stops the reductionist 'clan fighting' barbaric rhetoric. It was a war fought on power, resources, direction of the nation, vision, etc. Which nearly all wars, yes Western nations included, have fought over. When we reduce it to 'Qabil wars' it firstly removes the blame from Afweyne even though he did instigate it and was the catalyst, but secondly, it makes it seem like Somali political turmoil is something unique and unprecedented. Political turmoil, especially with foreign powers interventing is something extremely common in 20th/21st century.
I didn't even touch on proper the impact that US funding Afweyne drying up when Soviet no longer became a threat and also when they stopped needing to utilise Berbera port for strategic reasons, after gaining the Fatwa by Sheikh Ibn Baz to use Saudi and Gulf base to attack Iraq. Of course Afweyne will go all out on dividing and conquering when his funds dried up and Soviet Union.
Afweyne is no different from any other dictator. Whoever tries to festoon his or any dictator's time with "but he did this while in charge" - the perfect response to them is: Yes, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. When you are in charge of all the resources and power within a nation, there is no doubt at the very least some of your policies, whether directly or indirectly will be successful and useful to the masses, however, that a) doesn't account for all the wickedness and treachery the dictator has done to the people b) how much more could a benevolent leader and a functioning govt do for the people, its innumberable.
My father was in Xalane in the mid 70's. Afweyne came to visit the camp where they housed 17-18 year olds for conscription, which was mandatory then. Afweyne came and they all had to go into salute command and my father always tells us it was racing through his brain should I be a martyr and assassinate him, my father has never called Afweyne by his real name. He found him objetionable, that bitterness partly came from him unrightfully dethroning Sharmarke but also destroying the civic unity that was established by SYL.
As for me, Afweyne and Caydiid were the two who destroyed our nation. The former tore apart the social fabric and the latter ignited it in fire. Yes there were other responsible actors (I actually happened to see Gen Morgan yesterday in Garowe), but those two will be questioned on the day of Judgement for what they did to Somalis and the lasting (negative) impact they have had, which will undoubtedly go on for our lifetime. Xamar would have been a more developed Mombasa, with all groups living together and a rational discussion of where to go next happening. Instead, we are left with a Bantustan-isation, foreign poweres meddling, AS controlling 1/4 of the land, and our name being synonymous with starvation, qaxooti, destitution and being indigents. Subhanallah, where has our Shaaraf gone.
Happy October 21! The day Somalis gained honour and prestige around the world. Now we are a failed UN colony
Tiyeglow
A Laandheere always pays his debts
I will add that I'd 100% rather live under Siyad Barre than this horrific nightmare of last 30+ years. In hindsight, this is true. However, when Afweyne was kick out and ran to Lagos, no one imagined a psychopathic moryaan who would be instantaneously barbaric and call for the industrial slaughtering of men, women and children because of this mythical '100 year domination'. Had Caydiid, the mother of all moryaans, not been around, I genuinely believe Somalia would have recovered from Afweyne's regime (countless nations have recovered from dictatorships, how many have recovered from barbaric nomadic anarchy by a group of people full of cuqdad and envy, pure inferiority complex - maybe only Rwanda?).
That seems like a very fair assessment untill you blame siyad for the war, he didn't start killing ppl if they didn't interfere with his government either thru wahabis which Saudis sent to disturb the nation to protect their oil monopoly or tribal rebels who went to Ethiopia, they started the conflict not siyad, he merely responded. The one thing you do say correct is he came to power not thru the voting method but thru a coup(bloodless of course unlike our leaders post 90s nothing but bloodbath).
But the final nail in the coffin is you can criticize siyad barre just like any competent leader they do some good and some bad, but anything post 90s cannot even be described in the same sentence as siyad barre, it's all bad nothing good and infact we now pray our leaders don't go from corrupt n Clannism(the status quo) to anarchy leaders(91 model) we r now stuck In a political calibre of bad to worse goal post cause we know there isn't a single shred of good possible unlike siyad barre and competent leaders.
Post 90s no joke Somalis pray things don't get worse then they already are which as U know is hell lol, their always on a knife edge about is the next leader sending us back to 91 constantly(that's how fragile it is) and how low public confidence is, this wasn't the case with siyad barre U can argue his good n bad but it was never near this level of incompetence and being on a knife edge to 91 with every leader that comes. To put siyad in the same category as the post 90 leader is absolutely criminal.
Tiyeglow
A Laandheere always pays his debts
But the issue was the way he governed meant that anything post-Afweyne was going to be a dramatic change and besides absolute power corrupts absolutely, no one man should have all that power, especially undeservedly - how can you prefer him to Sharmarke, I really do not understand. It may be biased, but we, Majerteeniya, were on top of the world in the 60's, we had Abdirazak Haji Hussein as RW, Sharmarke as RW and then president. Most of the cabinet was run by us, SYL, our bottom-up party, was in charge. Even then, do you condone the Mudug attacks Afweyne committed/sanctioned to Cumar Maxamuud?
Honestly, what would have been a plausible transition/point for Afweyne to leave for you? Do you agree he should have taken the Manifesto Group's deal and transitioned out? He was senile and paranoid at the point post-car crash.
If he was this benevolent qaran-jecel leader, why didn't he step aside when he and all knew it was time to go. Even when he was dethroned he tried to regroup in Gedo and go back.
Tiyeglow
A Laandheere always pays his debts
You know in politics, sports, warfare, there are enemies that you somewhat respect enough to compete with and enemies that you don't even acknowledge. Siyad was the former, the moryaans running the show in Xamar are the latter. They cannot be compared. This isn't some 'Daroodnimo', this is facts and genuine observation. I'm curious though, why are you against Afweyne model being implemented today, if a righteous and benevolent leader like Afweyne was to come along? It wouldn't work, but your logic it is the right prescription to Somalia's needs.
The man was a qaran jecel Wadani dhab ah didn't do a damn thing for gedo his homeland but focused on Hamar well being. Don't go there bro, U will look just silly. As for stepping down if someone was a patriot like him I'm sure he would hand it over but hand over power to Trojans of menguistu, he was to proud. He was a great visionary by the way knowing there is no genuine patriot in other clans or else we would've seen it post 90s till today.
You do need to remember taking power depends on how power was taken, he did it thru bloodless coup, the idiots attempted that and it was foiled many times, so they ran to Ethiopia for support as trojan rebels. That isn't how things r done, siyad didn't harm a single Somali when he took power, totally bloodless coup and I think it was the first ever coup without bloodshed, if the opposition had any brain they should've of worked a plan on how to do the same not go and run and get guns, that's cause they were soundly politically defeated.
Tiyeglow
A Laandheere always pays his debts
Bloodless coup? What is more bloody than assassinating the sitting president? When you read up the trial and the kangaroo courts that were put in place for the Ali Salebaan who shot him, you see it was all put in motion for the coup to happen so it is of course attributed to him.
Secondly, Afweyne ran a police state military apparatus, which was very different from the civilian govt hence the latter's coup was seamless while the former was far more difficult, given he knew he was a wanted man on so many different fronts.
Diktoor, we will never see eye to eye with Afweyne fully. I actually don't despise him, but I hold him accountable. You are infatuated and besotted with him, which given your fathers association with the Kacaan regime isn't a surprise. However, one thing is for sure - he wasn't free from Qabiil. Although I don't agree with the MOD allegations, he definitely did divide and conquer with qabiils, that is undeniable.
Let's agree to disagree but at least u came to a common ground noone post 90 can even shine his shoes so that alone vindicates him. isn't it silly hearing Somali leaders these days abuse him while they themselves r far worse then anything he was, that's when my blood boils and then u have idiots clapping
This is a bold faced lie, Sharmarke bodyguards killed him because of a personal dispute they had, Madaxweyne Mohamed Siyaad Barre then took control following the power vacuum after Sharmarkes death.
He inherited a fully formed government, while every leader post 90s as you say has basically had to build a government from scratch. You are not comparing apples to apples.Let's agree to disagree but at least u came to a common ground noone post 90 can even shine his shoes so that alone vindicates him. isn't it silly hearing Somali leaders these days abuse him while they themselves r far worse then anything he was, that's when my blood boils and then u have idiots clapping
The guys who inherited the goverment were also involved in the downfall of the goverment. Did you know our current speaker of the house is a former RRA warlord? From Cali Mahdi to AY to Sheikh Sharif were all actors during civil war period.
You can add Barre to that list. He refused to compromise till it was too late, got kicked out then started his own jabhad in Gedo to try to get the capital back. He ended up in Nigeria instead...
