A Denied History - Migurtenia

[DR OSMAN]

Brother @Libaaxseendheer majerten do not do well or succeed in jabhads, we are not used to 'opposition' nor are we used to 'no government' and chaos and one of the fundamental reason why we are seeking law and order because we thrive then. Look at 'Canada immigration minister', International court judge, American congress woman. The list can continue, we thrive in governance and law and order anagu not 'chaos' and why so many of our diaspora and elites refuse to return untill they see stability which 'habar gedir' fears because he operates better in chaos as it 'limits' competition as everyone too scared to come.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Tan baan ku wada hadalna oo ah documentki keenaysee 'stability' iyo governance iyo maskax laysku adeegsado ileen basekeenu ayaa taasi ku dhisan ma garatay.

 

[Libaaxseendheer]

Dr Osman
GBTarmy
Farm Equipment
These are the only verified none sheegato to this movement
I figure many sheegatos to oppose and bahdil like they did with PL

 

[Lordilord]

@Lordilord doesnt mince his words, he wants to see puntland declare independence and there is lots of his types among us in our political circle also.

Yes because the south is corrupt, you might think I hate Puntland but wallahi I don't. Since day one, I have felt that PL should declare independence.

Puntland has done good by themselves these past decades and "our" government seems to stay still so what is the reasoning for staying? Just imagine PL having access as a new recognized country to all the financial institutions for loans, or being able to enter into deals with foreign countries, big companies..

Can you honestly tell me that PL wouldn't be one of the fastest growing countries in the world if that was the case??

 

[DR OSMAN]

Yes because the south is corrupt, you might think I hate Puntland but wallahi I don't. Since day one, I have felt that PL should declare independence.

Puntland has done good by themselves these past decades and "our" government seems to stay still so what is the reasoning for staying? Just imagine PL having access as a new recognized country to all the financial institutions for loans, or being able to enter into deals with foreign countries, big companies..

Can you honestly tell me that PL wouldn't be one of the fastest growing countries in the world if that was the case??

It is corrupt and I honestly do not believe hawiye wants peace to even occur as they benefit looting the market and remaining in the status quo as they lost a-lot of people in the wars and there isn't really anything among them left to compete with other tribes politically. The status quo ensures other tribes also suffer with them. 30 years of constant wars isn't great on any clan potential base of people.

Look at their representatives today. Macalin dugsi in dhusomareeb, Xaaf(a known looter in the 90s), abdi-qaybdiid, muse sudi(a warlord and clown), can u tell me those people are prepared for anything? The difference between puntland and the south is this really. We are not angels either. We are just as tribal or if not more lakin we all back down to 'sharciga and dasturka' we have a binding agreement among ourselves and we want them to become like that only.

 

[Lordilord]

It is corrupt and I honestly do not believe hawiye wants peace to even occur as they benefit looting the market and remaining in the status quo as they lost a-lot of people in the wars and there isn't really anything among them left to compete with other tribes politically. The status quo ensures other tribes also suffer with them. 30 years of constant wars isn't great on any clan potential base of people.

Look at their representatives today. Macalin dugsi in dhusomareeb, Xaaf(a known looter in the 90s), abdi-qaybdiid, muse sudi(a warlord and clown), can u tell me those people are prepared for anything?

If anyone can negotiate change of the colonial border it is not Somalia it is Puntland but not as a federal state.. Do you think Somaliland will agree to anything Somalia asks for, because Somalia has went back on every deal made with SL.

Imagine both PL and SL recognized.. The economic boost in North West and North East would be massive. If there are friendly relations even better because then both can work together for economical and security purposes.

Fast forward 10 years, which scenario is better?
Puntland as a federal member state of Somalia or as a recognized country

or

Somaliland as a state of Somalia or as a recognized country

 

[Lordilord]

@DR OSMAN Puntland has leverage on Somaliland, do you know how? If Puntland declares independence what would happen?

It will help in further legitimizing Somaliland claim to statehood and vice versa where SL struggle for almost 30 years will help legitimize Puntland claim for statehood. Is there a valid reason for the international community to deny Puntland for 27 years as well?

Just that alone should be enough leverage for SL to reconsider the borders and pull back. Only then would real change happen..

 

[GBTarmy]

Yes because the south is corrupt, you might think I hate Puntland but wallahi I don't. Since day one, I have felt that PL should declare independence.

Puntland has done good by themselves these past decades and "our" government seems to stay still so what is the reasoning for staying? Just imagine PL having access as a new recognized country to all the financial institutions for loans, or being able to enter into deals with foreign countries, big companies..

Can you honestly tell me that PL wouldn't be one of the fastest growing countries in the world if that was the case??

Its crazy because the ones we have border dispute with support us development wise unlike the southerners we share a country with.

 

[GBTarmy]

@DR OSMAN Puntland has leverage on Somaliland, do you know how? If Puntland declares independence what would happen?

It will help in further legitimizing Somaliland claim to statehood and vice versa where SL struggle for almost 30 years will help legitimize Puntland claim for statehood. Is there a valid reason to deny Puntland for 27 years as well?

Just that alone should be enough leverage for SL to reconsider the borders and pull back. Only then would real change happen..

If Puntland seeked independence I doubt there would be any Somalia, that would be 50% of the country seeking independence from Mogadishu which they cant ignore.

 

[GBTarmy]

It is corrupt and I honestly do not believe hawiye wants peace to even occur as they benefit looting the market and remaining in the status quo as they lost a-lot of people in the wars and there isn't really anything among them left to compete with other tribes politically. The status quo ensures other tribes also suffer with them. 30 years of constant wars isn't great on any clan potential base of people.

Look at their representatives today. Macalin dugsi in dhusomareeb, Xaaf(a known looter in the 90s), abdi-qaybdiid, muse sudi(a warlord and clown), can u tell me those people are prepared for anything? The difference between puntland and the south is this really. We are not angels either. We are just as tribal or if not more lakin we all back down to 'sharciga and dasturka' we have a binding agreement among ourselves and we want them to become like that only.

Dr have you seen how anti development they are? If they arent doing good they want everyone dragged along with them even when its the locals buildings things up with their own money. #horumardiid

 

[Lordilord]

If Puntland seeked independence I doubt there would be any Somalia, that would be 50% of the country seeking independence from Mogadishu which they cant ignore.

What is more important is, how the government of Somalia would react. That is a better way of looking at it because in that case the two most established states are PL and SL and they are out of the picture.

For them to secure both SL and PL let alone one of them is impossible with military power so the only option is to secure the rest of the states.

Now that is not impossible and basically would force Somalia to do it's job which it has not been doing for a very long time. Like really dealing with al-shabab and centralize more power.

I honestly believe it would force Somalia's hand for the better because if not only SL has seceded but PL as well, this would guarantee change for the better or worse depends on Xamar government.

 

[DR OSMAN]

What is more important is, how the government of Somalia would react. That is a better way of looking at it because in that case the two most established states are PL and SL and they are out of the picture.

For them to secure both SL and PL let alone one of them is impossible with military power so the only option is to secure the rest of the states.

Now that is not impossible and basically would force Somalia to do it's job which it has not been doing for a very long time. Like really dealing with al-shabab and centralize more power.

I honestly believe it would force Somalia's hand for the better because if not only SL has seceded but PL as well, this would guarantee change for the better.

The weird thing for you tho is, how is recognition gonna make things better for u between garhajis? you dont seem to get along now in an administration that is unrecognized, how will u get along in an administration that does get recognition? @Bohol @Saalax Bidaar maybe can comment also as they are the other side of somaliland u conveniently choose to ignore.

If we split at least it's peaceful among us in all honesty, there is no clan on clan anomosity at the level of garhajis and jeegaan and the secret to our success is is how we founded our state, thru peaceful means. SL was founded with guns and u will be brought down with guns, your just really buying TIME before it explodes and even caare said that 'muse luqada xabada ayuu yaqan' that's true, hadee jabhad kasto oo xoog ku joggo wax kale ay fahmayan ma jiro, same deal happened to aideed, siyad barre, etc. Isaaq isn't an exception to the rule you will be going out in the blaze of gunfire if you find a state on gun fire.

 

[Lordilord]

The weird thing for you tho is, how is recognition gonna make things better for u between garhajis? you dont seem to get along now in an administration that is unrecognized, how will u get along in an administration that does get recognition? @Bohol @Saalax Bidaar maybe can comment also as they are the other side of somaliland u conveniently choose to ignore.

If we split at least it's peaceful among us in all honesty, there is no clan on clan anomosity at the level of garhajis and jeegaan and the secret to our success is is how we founded our state, thru peaceful means

As long as both states come out of it recognized what is there to lose? Anything is better than the current status quo which is not looking like it will change anytime soon.

It is not logical to deny yourselves better deals, better economy, better security and better life for the Somali people in whatever state for a government that is NOT doing it's job.

Border situation is complex so there would have to be like reasonable line and then the decided disputed areas can have a referendum so a one man, one vote kind of referendum. Counting of the votes should be done by a neutral country and there should be international observers in every "polling station".

Who can deny the will of the people then?

 

[DR OSMAN]

Bah dir waa inay iska aqbalan in siyasadi laga adkaaday bah yacqoub baa raayay, waxaa la rabay inaad talyaniga uu sheegtid in la jebiyo saldanadasi oo hamar noo wado iyo italian somaliland oo aad dhulki uu keenadiid mamulay hos keentan saldanada bariga kadibna kala saxixatan talyani deal iyo territory gooni ah oo suldanad la abuuro sida oman ay manta tahay. Lakin nasib daro waa laga adkaaday, boqorki waxaa lagu turay xabsi hamar, waa ujeeda bah yacqoub ayaa si fican kaga adkaaday meesha oo illa manta saamaynteeda dalka ku rebeen gebi ahanteeda

 

[Libaaxseendheer]

If Puntland seeked independence I doubt there would be any Somalia, that would be 50% of the country seeking independence from Mogadishu which they cant ignore.

But what say do they have in the matter. Many pl are for the cause and the others arent staunchly against it. Theres no big brother watching all anti central propaganda like there was with siad. Hell even if there was we saw how we did them. Back in 98 we had two options. We tried it for 20 years, and now we'll go to the only option left secession.

 

[Libaaxseendheer]

But what say do they have in the matter. Many pl are for the cause and the others arent staunchly against it. Theres no big brother watching all anti central propaganda like there was with siad. Hell even if there was we saw how we did them. Back in 98 we had two options. We tried it for 20 years, and now we'll go to the only option left secession.
View attachment 60219

BAH DIR HA NOOLAATO

 

[Libaaxseendheer]

Bah dir waa inay iska aqbalan in siyasadi laga adkaaday bah yacqoub baa raayay, waxaa la rabay inaad talyaniga uu sheegtid in la jebiyo saldanadasi oo hamar noo wado iyo italian somaliland oo aad dhulki uu keenadiid mamulay hos keentan saldanada bariga kadibna kala saxixatan talyani deal iyo territory gooni ah oo suldanad la abuuro sida oman ay manta tahay. Lakin nasib daro waa laga adkaaday, boqorki waxaa lagu turay xabsi hamar, waa ujeeda bah yacqoub ayaa si fican kaga adkaaday meesha oo illa manta saamaynteeda dalka ku rebeen gebi ahanteeda

Would you dissagree that bah yacqoub lost a big battle in the falling of siad and the formation of puntland? Matter of fact bah dir have won all the physical battles already its just a matter of propaganda at this point.

 

[Libaaxseendheer]

The weird thing for you tho is, how is recognition gonna make things better for u between garhajis? you dont seem to get along now in an administration that is unrecognized, how will u get along in an administration that does get recognition? @Bohol @Saalax Bidaar maybe can comment also as they are the other side of somaliland u conveniently choose to ignore.

If we split at least it's peaceful among us in all honesty, there is no clan on clan anomosity at the level of garhajis and jeegaan and the secret to our success is is how we founded our state, thru peaceful means. SL was founded with guns and u will be brought down with guns, your just really buying TIME before it explodes and even caare said that 'muse luqada xabada ayuu yaqan' that's true, hadee jabhad kasto oo xoog ku joggo wax kale ay fahmayan ma jiro, same deal happened to aideed, siyad barre, etc. Isaaq isn't an exception to the rule you will be going out in the blaze of gunfire if you find a state on gun fire.

Bah dir waa inay iska aqbalan in siyasadi laga adkaaday bah yacqoub baa raayay, waxaa la rabay inaad talyaniga uu sheegtid in la jebiyo saldanadasi oo hamar noo wado iyo italian somaliland oo aad dhulki uu keenadiid mamulay hos keentan saldanada bariga kadibna kala saxixatan talyani deal iyo territory gooni ah oo suldanad la abuuro sida oman ay manta tahay. Lakin nasib daro waa laga adkaaday, boqorki waxaa lagu turay xabsi hamar, waa ujeeda bah yacqoub ayaa si fican kaga adkaaday meesha oo illa manta saamaynteeda dalka ku rebeen gebi ahanteeda

But italians wanted to include miguirtenia in their colony. Which they did. Keenadiid played treason with help of colonial power and he won, todays world and the situation of somalia is much different

 

[Libaaxseendheer]

Bah dir waa inay iska aqbalan in siyasadi laga adkaaday bah yacqoub baa raayay, waxaa la rabay inaad talyaniga uu sheegtid in la jebiyo saldanadasi oo hamar noo wado iyo italian somaliland oo aad dhulki uu keenadiid mamulay hos keentan saldanada bariga kadibna kala saxixatan talyani deal iyo territory gooni ah oo suldanad la abuuro sida oman ay manta tahay. Lakin nasib daro waa laga adkaaday, boqorki waxaa lagu turay xabsi hamar, waa ujeeda bah yacqoub ayaa si fican kaga adkaaday meesha oo illa manta saamaynteeda dalka ku rebeen gebi ahanteeda

Siad already cashed in the weerar and military force card and failed with the odds overwhelming on his side: all tribes solely loyal to his word, a military force far more superior than the kacaanists, and it was unprecedented. Any leader of the central gov to even voice such an opinion today is not accepted and will be seen as a war mongerring regressor. Saaxiib bah dir took an L almost century ago but we came back with a fat w. Bah yacqoub is a mudjob and mudjobs always fall through