Addressing the finate sin infinite hell argument

My understanding is that hell isn't equal to heaven meaning that hell will at some point not exist. Also the vast majority of people don't reject Islam so Allah will judge them accordingly in the Quran. For those who rejected Islam, they will be punished. Hell(Jahanam) Cadaab(punishment); these two should not be confused. Disbelief and oppression are different Allah knows best. It could be possible that our understanding of forever is flawed as well because we view things from a finite world. Every believer will be able to testify for his loved ones condemned to hell.
 
hell is only eternal for disbelievers and those that die upon shirk, so if you believe in god and did not do shirk then even if your sins outweigh your good deeds you will eventually go to jannah, ofcourse only god knows how long you'd spend in hell it could be a thousand years, a million years or a billion years even, but not eternity
Anyone that rejected islam in the slightest e.g rejected the sunnah criticized the prophets basically not believing in some of the messages are doomed to hell with no hope for redemption. Forever. Those that never heard of islam or did not recieve the true message of islam, will be tested in Qiyamah. If they obey Allah on that fateful test will enter paradise and those that disobey will be dragged to the hellfire.
 
that isn't the problem. hell in itself is. an allmighty/powerful God doesn't need to eternally torture billions of people who he knew weren't gonna believe from the start. ontop of that he claims to be most merciful in the same breathe as telling people they'll burn repeatdly over and over if they dont believe. this is what makes people leave islam.
Hellfire is only reserved for those that has rejected islam. By rejecting islam you are rejected Allah who has created you in the best form. And Allah is indeed merciful. Mercy is at every place in the world how else do you breath air, or buy your vegetables and fruits? I refuse to believe those things I have mentioned came by chance. And Allah would never punish a people who has never heard of islam or have not heard of it in its true form.
 
My understanding is that hell isn't equal to heaven meaning that hell will at some point not exist. Also the vast majority of people don't reject Islam so Allah will judge them accordingly in the Quran. For those who rejected Islam, they will be punished. Hell(Jahanam) Cadaab(punishment); these two should not be confused. Disbelief and oppression are different Allah knows best. It could be possible that our understanding of forever is flawed as well because we view things from a finite world. Every believer will be able to testify for his loved ones condemned to hell.
The Quran explicitly mentions that hellfire is eternal and there will be people punished there forever. There is no room for misinterpretation.
 
Hellfire is only reserved for those that has rejected islam. By rejecting islam you are rejected Allah who has created you in the best form. And Allah is indeed merciful. Mercy is at every place in the world how else do you breath air, or buy your vegetables and fruits? I refuse to believe those things I have mentioned came by chance. And Allah would never punish a people who has never heard of islam or have not heard of it in its true form.
Lets look at india for example. over 1billion people. vast majority of them grew up with hinduism as a child and just like muslims they adamantly believe its the truth. the way you guys reject other faiths they reject islam. you mean to tell me that Allah created all those indians KNOWING they would not believe and remain with their own beliefs and send them to eternal hell?

people follow what they were born with. 99% chance you or anyone here would not convert to islam if you grew up in china, india, west africa etc. you would dismiss it as fake and follow the religion of your upbringing.

no clue why a god as powerful as islam has to torture mere humans for not believing when he knows what we'll do. its simply sadistic and not merciful at all otherwise concept of hell wouldn't even exist.
 

Liban89

Maqal herder | Burco boodhweyn.
Lets look at india for example. over 1billion people. vast majority of them grew up with hinduism as a child and just like muslims they adamantly believe its the truth. the way you guys reject other faiths they reject islam. you mean to tell me that Allah created all those indians KNOWING they would not believe and remain with their own beliefs and send them to eternal hell?

people follow what they were born with. 99% chance you or anyone here would not convert to islam if you grew up in china, india, west africa etc. you would dismiss it as fake and follow the religion of your upbringing.

no clue why a god as powerful as islam has to torture mere humans for not believing when he knows what we'll do. its simply sadistic and not merciful at all otherwise concept of hell wouldn't even exist.
No matter how you look at it, no matter how much philosophy you invoke to understand it; the concept of eternal reward/punishment in akhira is nonsensical. An all powerful, all knowing and all merciful deity wouldn't punish/reward simple creatures for finite pre-ordained actions they have undertaken.
 
No matter how you look at it, no matter how much philosophy you invoke to understand it; the concept of eternal reward/punishment in akhira is nonsensical. An all powerful, all knowing and all merciful deity wouldn't punish/reward simple creatures for finite pre-ordained actions they have undertaken.
Who ever allah guides non can misguide. And who ever allah misguides non can guide.

come back to the path brother. Allah is the most merciful most gracious.
 
Who ever allah guides non can misguide. And who ever allah misguides non can guide.

come back to the path brother. Allah is the most merciful most gracious.
Let's just end it at, Allah can do whatever he wants and in the Quran he doesn't say All disbelievers nor does he say All believers. Nobody goes to heaven or hell because of their actions or beliefs but rather by the mercy of Allah. You can't say for certain your gaal neighbor is going to hell if he converts because that is up to Allah. Cilmulqaayb is on Allah and nobody else.
 

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Lets look at india for example. over 1billion people. vast majority of them grew up with hinduism as a child and just like muslims they adamantly believe its the truth. the way you guys reject other faiths they reject islam. you mean to tell me that Allah created all those indians KNOWING they would not believe and remain with their own beliefs and send them to eternal hell?

people follow what they were born with. 99% chance you or anyone here would not convert to islam if you grew up in china, india, west africa etc. you would dismiss it as fake and follow the religion of your upbringing.

no clue why a god as powerful as islam has to torture mere humans for not believing when he knows what we'll do. its simply sadistic and not merciful at all otherwise concept of hell wouldn't even exist.
Just like you and other people in this thread are denying teachings in islam while you grew up in a muslim household and were brought up with deen there are others who hear of islam and whether they are indian, israeli or korean but they denied to learn it or try to understand it out of their own free will. Nobody has a gun to their head forcing them to convert, they have the option to learn it but they didn't.

There are somalis who were raised muslim but converted to christianity when they discovered that religion out of their own free will.

You were brought to this world to follow and believe in allah and his messengers keeping yourself away from haram. God gave everyone free will to do whatever they please but in the end when the only thing that is certain in all of our lives happens which is death. You will get judged on all that you did in this world and all the signs/chances you ignored throughout your life. Who is to blame then? God or you? Allah gave everyone a choice they didn't follow the right one its their fault.
 
Somehow it contradicts the concept of eternal 🔥.
Liban your making your choice right now. Nothing is stopping.

The same lord that has giving you that freedom is telling you what will happen for he is the lord of the heaven and earth.

if you choice the finite vs the infinite and have bad thought of allah you will head to an evil destination.
 

Liban89

Maqal herder | Burco boodhweyn.
The same lord that has giving you that freedom
What freedom? The lord has written every single thing that would happen from first creation till the end days. He is the grand director of the cosmic play. what choices do humans have? None.

Everything you and I will ever do is already set in stone by the lord, and NOTHING could change it. According to islam; if a person is destined to go to hell, they'll find it easy to perform bad deeds and vice versa.

See the following:

Prophetic Commentary on the Qur'an (Tafseer of the Prophet (pbuh))
(7)"We will make smooth for him the path for evil." (V.92:10)(7)باب ‏{‏فَسَنُيَسِّرُهُ لِلْعُسْرَى‏}‏
Sahih al-Bukhari 4949
Narrated `Ali:

While the Prophet (ﷺ) was in a funeral procession. he picked up something and started scraping the ground with it, and said, "There is none among you but has his place written for him either in the Hell Fire or in Paradise." They said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Shall we not depend upon what has been written for us and give up deeds? He said, "Carry on doing (good) deeds, for everybody will find easy to do such deeds as will lead him to his destined place for which he has been created. So he who is destined to be among the happy (in the Hereafter), will find it easy to do the deeds characteristic of such people, while he who is destined to be among the miserable ones, will find it easy to do the deeds characteristic of such people." Then he recited: 'As for him who gives (in charity) and fears Allah, and believes in the best....' (92.5-10)

حَدَّثَنَا آدَمُ، حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ، عَنِ الأَعْمَشِ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ سَعْدَ بْنَ عُبَيْدَةَ، يُحَدِّثُ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ السُّلَمِيِّ، عَنْ عَلِيٍّ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ قَالَ كَانَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم فِي جَنَازَةٍ فَأَخَذَ شَيْئًا فَجَعَلَ يَنْكُتُ بِهِ الأَرْضَ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ مَا مِنْكُمْ مِنْ أَحَدٍ إِلاَّ وَقَدْ كُتِبَ مَقْعَدُهُ مِنَ النَّارِ وَمَقْعَدُهُ مِنَ الْجَنَّةِ ‏"‏‏.‏ قَالُوا يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ أَفَلاَ نَتَّكِلُ عَلَى كِتَابِنَا وَنَدَعُ الْعَمَلَ قَالَ ‏"‏ اعْمَلُوا فَكُلٌّ مُيَسَّرٌ لِمَا خُلِقَ لَهُ، أَمَّا مَنْ كَانَ مِنْ أَهْلِ السَّعَادَةِ فَيُيَسَّرُ لِعَمَلِ أَهْلِ السَّعَادَةِ، وَأَمَّا مَنْ كَانَ مِنْ أَهْلِ الشَّقَاءِ فَيُيَسَّرُ لِعَمَلِ أَهْلِ الشَّقَاوَةِ ‏"‏‏.‏ ثُمَّ قَرَأَ ‏{‏فَأَمَّا مَنْ أَعْطَى وَاتَّقَى * وَصَدَّقَ بِالْحُسْنَى‏}‏ الآيَةَ‏.‏
Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 4949
In-book reference : Book 65, Hadith 471
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 6, Book 60, Hadith

Link:

 
What freedom? The lord has written every single thing that would happen from first creation till the end days. He is the grand director of the cosmic play. what choices do humans have? None.

Everything you and I will ever do is already set in stone by the lord, and NOTHING could change it. According to islam; if a person is destined to go to hell, they'll find it easy to perform bad deeds and vice versa.

See the following:

Prophetic Commentary on the Qur'an (Tafseer of the Prophet (pbuh))
(7)"We will make smooth for him the path for evil." (V.92:10)(7)باب ‏{‏فَسَنُيَسِّرُهُ لِلْعُسْرَى‏}‏
Sahih al-Bukhari 4949
Narrated `Ali:

While the Prophet (ﷺ) was in a funeral procession. he picked up something and started scraping the ground with it, and said, "There is none among you but has his place written for him either in the Hell Fire or in Paradise." They said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Shall we not depend upon what has been written for us and give up deeds? He said, "Carry on doing (good) deeds, for everybody will find easy to do such deeds as will lead him to his destined place for which he has been created. So he who is destined to be among the happy (in the Hereafter), will find it easy to do the deeds characteristic of such people, while he who is destined to be among the miserable ones, will find it easy to do the deeds characteristic of such people." Then he recited: 'As for him who gives (in charity) and fears Allah, and believes in the best....' (92.5-10)

حَدَّثَنَا آدَمُ، حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ، عَنِ الأَعْمَشِ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ سَعْدَ بْنَ عُبَيْدَةَ، يُحَدِّثُ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ السُّلَمِيِّ، عَنْ عَلِيٍّ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ قَالَ كَانَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم فِي جَنَازَةٍ فَأَخَذَ شَيْئًا فَجَعَلَ يَنْكُتُ بِهِ الأَرْضَ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ مَا مِنْكُمْ مِنْ أَحَدٍ إِلاَّ وَقَدْ كُتِبَ مَقْعَدُهُ مِنَ النَّارِ وَمَقْعَدُهُ مِنَ الْجَنَّةِ ‏"‏‏.‏ قَالُوا يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ أَفَلاَ نَتَّكِلُ عَلَى كِتَابِنَا وَنَدَعُ الْعَمَلَ قَالَ ‏"‏ اعْمَلُوا فَكُلٌّ مُيَسَّرٌ لِمَا خُلِقَ لَهُ، أَمَّا مَنْ كَانَ مِنْ أَهْلِ السَّعَادَةِ فَيُيَسَّرُ لِعَمَلِ أَهْلِ السَّعَادَةِ، وَأَمَّا مَنْ كَانَ مِنْ أَهْلِ الشَّقَاءِ فَيُيَسَّرُ لِعَمَلِ أَهْلِ الشَّقَاوَةِ ‏"‏‏.‏ ثُمَّ قَرَأَ ‏{‏فَأَمَّا مَنْ أَعْطَى وَاتَّقَى * وَصَدَّقَ بِالْحُسْنَى‏}‏ الآيَةَ‏.‏
Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 4949
In-book reference : Book 65, Hadith 471
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 6, Book 60, Hadith

Link:


Your making you choice don’t regret on that day.
 

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Lets look at india for example. over 1billion people. vast majority of them grew up with hinduism as a child and just like muslims they adamantly believe its the truth. the way you guys reject other faiths they reject islam. you mean to tell me that Allah created all those indians KNOWING they would not believe and remain with their own beliefs and send them to eternal hell?

people follow what they were born with. 99% chance you or anyone here would not convert to islam if you grew up in china, india, west africa etc. you would dismiss it as fake and follow the religion of your upbringing.

no clue why a god as powerful as islam has to torture mere humans for not believing when he knows what we'll do. its simply sadistic and not merciful at all otherwise concept of hell wouldn't even exist.
Believing God has partners is irrational even if that's the religion they grew up with. You are setting up partners with God with no proof or evidence. Where's God being one there is concrete proof of it. Not only by logic but can be found in the holy quran the book that has never been altered and has predicted a lot of things that scientist only recently discovered all other books have been tainted or there is no evidence that what they worshipping is the truth. Is not about what they grew up with is about finding out the truth. And if presented with the truth you should accept it. Why would you continue to reject the truth knowing it is the truth? Surely you would accept it and advice others to?
 
One thing that I tend to notice that draw young Muslims from the deen is the fact that hell is unending. In this thread I would like to say some few points that I uses to explain the wisdom behind Allah's swt punishment.

1.In our societies we do not punish people for how long the crime is but how severe it is.For example shooting someone takes 1 second but would give you a long punishment.

2.In islam the greatest sin is to commit shirk... why is that? Well let me use a example to help you understand.We all can tell a human and a tree have different innate value as it would much greater sin to cut one down than the other.Well a human and Allah have much more greater difference in innate value.The only relationship we can have with such a entity is complete submission

3.Allah is the most knowledgeable and Just we can only put trust in Allah justice.Even if we can not understand the wisdom behind it.Just like how a child wouldn't understand the wisdom behind the judicial system.
Even if these disbelievers were given eternity to believe in Allah, they still wouldn't. XD
They always have the audacity to critique eternal hell but don't forget, you also have eternal paradise. So what they telling me is, those who chose to decide to believe in Allah and do good in this world deserve what?....
finite pleasure? There would be no point to the test and our determination towards paradise wont be as strong as having a goal where there's eternal paradise.
Allah is all just and does not intervene in your choices you make.
Watch from 20:24 to understand the value of who youre trangressing against.
 
https://www.gawaher.com/topic/731288-infinite-punishment-for-finite-crimes/
There are good question and answers on this forum aswell
One user said:
It is absolute justice that a person should receive an infinite punishment for what you call a 'finite crime'. We should not be looking to the length of time it takes to commit a crime, but instead, to the magnitude of the crime. It takes me only a few seconds to kill a man, yet I am justly imprisoned for 25 years for the crime. It might take me only a moment to assault a man, but again, I could be sentenced to 12 months 'community service' to repay my debt to society. In most countries, if I assault a someone like a police officer, the punishment is even harsher than if I had assaulted a common man.



Similarly, a person who commits a sin such as denying Allah, in a finite time commits a crime of infinite magnitude. And moreover, he commits this crime against the One who is Most High. Therefore, he deserves an infinite punishment.



From the Tenth Word of the Risale-i Nur by Bediuzzaman Said Nursi:

Also let nobody ask: “How can one earn eternal torment in the course of a very brief life?” For unbelief seeks to drag creation, something as valuable and exalted as a letter written by Allah, down to the depths of meaninglessness and purposelessness. It is an insult to all being, since it denies and rejects the manifestations and impresses of Allah's Sacred Names that are visible in all being, and it seeks to negate all the infinite proofs that demonstrate the veracity and truthfulness of Allah Almighty. Hence, unbelief is a crime of infinite proportions, deserving of infinite punishment.
 

Liban89

Maqal herder | Burco boodhweyn.
has predicted a lot of things that scientist only recently discovered
Except it hasn't, every proponent for the theory of scientific miracles in the quran backtracks their calims at the end of the day, when they find out the holy quran either gets it scientifically wrong or just borrows the myths and believes of ancient people.
 
Except it hasn't, every proponent for the theory of scientific miracles in the quran backtracks their calims at the end of the day, when they find out the holy quran either gets it scientifically wrong or just borrows the myths and believes of ancient people.
there is no point going back and forth with this since your adamant in weakening the truth no matter what anyone says in this forum.
 
that isn't the problem. hell in itself is. an allmighty/powerful God doesn't need to eternally torture billions of people who he knew weren't gonna believe from the start. ontop of that he claims to be most merciful in the same breathe as telling people they'll burn repeatdly over and over if they dont believe. this is what makes people leave islam.
Foolish words. Allah misguided them for a reason. The punishment of hell is for the righteous to stay righteous and for the criminals to burn. Who are you to question your creator and maker. Do you actually seriously believe you can understand Allah. I mean Allah has infinite knowledge and who would actually restrain from desires if hell didn't exist. No one, that's who. But indeed Allah is the most merciful as he let's the disbelievers enjoy their life and he feeds them and more but instead you don't see this part of it. Indeed Jahannam is for the disbelievers who have chosen desires over their Lord.
 
My understanding is that hell isn't equal to heaven meaning that hell will at some point not exist. Also the vast majority of people don't reject Islam so Allah will judge them accordingly in the Quran. For those who rejected Islam, they will be punished. Hell(Jahanam) Cadaab(punishment); these two should not be confused. Disbelief and oppression are different Allah knows best. It could be possible that our understanding of forever is flawed as well because we view things from a finite world. Every believer will be able to testify for his loved ones condemned to hell.
Hell is equal to heaven, hell is as bad as heaven is good. The vast majority of people do reject and donot follow Islam. Our understanding of forerever is flawed, its much worse than we actually think. Every believer who is righteous can testify for his loved ones which were muslims in hell not the kuffar.
 
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