Afrocentrists claiming Natufians were black

[Khaemwaset]

@Khaemwaset why the "dead" emoji

Macrobia wasn't an actual state its just a Greek name. Somalia in antiquity was a collection of city states which formed into kingdoms. Like what the greeks called Sarapion was a small trading city at the time the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea was written, but in the middle ages it consolidated sovereignty over a large chunk of the region and became the powerful Mogadishu sultanate with its first known Sultan in 995AD

 

[wonyluvr]

The great Afro-Asiatic empire, all linked by Natufian ancestry

You are right. The map correlates with the dispersal of the Afro-Asiatic language family.

I’m very interested in the history the Afro-Asiatic language family and the Porto afro-asiatic culture.I wish there was more research

 

[Step a side]

I’m very interested in the history the Afro-Asiatic language family and the Porto afro-asiatic culture.I wish there was more research

@The alchemist is quite knowledgeable with this.

 

[Hotchick12]

If newcomer Arabs can claim Egypt, why not Madows. Sure, they overdo it, but when we look at the origin of humanity, all humans are from Africa allegedly, and thus, 'Black' is the origin.

they don’t say it’s arabs, and it was claimed from their non arab descent

 

[Hotchick12]

Imagine if people made generalisations about us saying we "beg Arabs" because of the ana-Arabs among us? We'd take issue with that. Don't do the same to other groups of people. Also, be more specific about who you mean by "Madow" because that's to broad a category that we ourselves fit into.

those ana arabs have legitimacy,

 

[Rayaale]

It’s over they are coming for awoowe natufian

 

[The alchemist]

This idea of Black and not Black is irrelevant when dealing with ancient people who existed on very different genetic variations. "Back" during the paleolithic, the were no Black people as in there were no "White" people, neither did the Asians look overall similar genetically to what they do today, besides the ones with high hunter-gatherer ancestry who are only a fraction of the Eurasian populations.

Natufians were not White, and neither were they Middle Eastern as in today's Lebanese. Natufians consist of a portion of their ancestry. Europeans have Anatolian Neolithic ancestry, this does not make modern Europeans Middle Easterners or synonymous with Neolithic farmers.

Natufians did have 30% African ancestry, that is for sure. Half of that was late Stone Age Middle Eastern stuff, but still, it came out of Africa after staying for 10-7 ky.

Speaking to the majority of people on this forum, stop making matters of genetics into your weird political agenda. It's ignorant and obnoxious.

As far as ancient Egypt was concerned, those people would have been darker in the early dynasties, and then when they mixed with Levantine Delta people who were likely more demographically dense, they mixed themselves into more West Asian-like.

My idea is that the early dynasties with heavy in Cushitic ancestry, heavy in ANA with what resembles Natufian but with more endemic stuff since the paleolithic.

 

[The Macrobian]

Macrobia wasn't an actual state its just a Greek name. Somalia in antiquity was a collection of city states which formed into kingdoms. Like what the greeks called Sarapion was a small trading city at the time the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea was written, but in the middle ages it consolidated sovereignty over a large chunk of the region and became the powerful Mogadishu sultanate with its first known Sultan in 995AD

These city-states were once a part of the Kingdom of Macrobia and they dissolved into chiefdom city states.

 

[Khaemwaset]

These city-states were once a part of the Kingdom of Macrobia and they dissolved into chiefdom city states.

Name the kings and dynasties

 

[Juke]

I'll keep it real homies. Natufian paternal ancestry was black aka ANA aka E-M35. The north African population ancestral to the Natufians became 'mixed' race when they mixed with Dzudzuana women who arrived in Northern Africa from the Caucasus mountains before the last glacial maximum (tens of thousands of years ago). This ancestral African population of the Natufians then traveled into Asia during the late Paleolithic and acquired more Eurasian ancestry by intermixing again with a Dzudzuana-like population forming the Natufians. Tl;dr: Awooweyal originators of Afroasiatic loved bunnies.

 

[canjeeroiyoshah]

We say "Madow" to refer to Madow people, but we technically fit into that description also by all measures.

We are black adjacent, and I wouldn't say 'we fit into that description' completely since our blackness would never have come into question, as it almost always is if that were true. Some Somalis can be racially ambiguous, i.e., Abdullahi Yusuf, Ahmed Karaash, etc.

Race in the West is a social construct subject to change, and it has always been a flimsy identity at best unless you're African American. It was not too long ago where Italians were excluded from the white category and were victims of racism. There's no question that the modern concept of race as we see it in the west has roots in racism and is/was designed to create a hierarchical social cast system based on arbitrary racial classifications.

I would put Somalis in their own category as it always has been.

 

[canjeeroiyoshah]

These city-states were once a part of the Kingdom of Macrobia and they dissolved into chiefdom city states.

You are no different than the hoteps saxib, just hang it up.. There's no need to claim some mythical kingdom that might've existed.

We have Ahmed Gurey, there's no need for 'We WuZ" antics.

 

[Idilinaa]

lool at the title ''The Natufians The Black People Who Invented Agriculture''

To be honest, if they were truly interested in African history they don't have to look too far to find agricultural inventions in Africa because Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea, Djibouti was one of the independent centers for early plant domestication.

Vavilov center - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Our Horn of African ancestors even introduced plants as well to the indus valley and domesticated the donkey and then introduced it to the near east

They're overcompensating for something; it's sad. Thank god our hoteps are only claiming the Macrobians. Nice name btw.

Macrobians are not even a real thing it's a greek mythology. So it's not like they are claiming something real or an actual place. They just look silly.

It's also unnecessary, because there is real history and there is factual accounts that i have recently come across that share the real developments in Somali history of the different ports and seaborn trade and our ancestors involvement in international systems in antiquity. Infact our ancestors were everywhere traveling far distances and ending up buried in Rome to my own surprise even.

One of the ports ''Mosylon'', were referred as the merchant capital of East Africa and the regional center for mercantile activities.

And how Somali became incredibly wealthy through their monopoly of certain luxury items, such as a dye they used to colour their clothing with and the colour purple they produced was especially luxurious and considered the colour royalty in ancient times.

Even our early migration history: How our ancestors came to populate the horn many thousand years ago is an interesting tale.

 

[Pearl of the Indian Ocean]

Technically, they do say all humans are from Africa, and that we all had dark skin at some point. Afrocentrists are 'extra', but are they always wrong?

Niger-Congo people don’t hold a monopoly on dark skin

 

[Journey.]

those ana arabs have legitimacy,

They don't. We're not Arabs.

We are black adjacent, and I wouldn't say 'we fit into that description' completely since our blackness would never have come into question, as it almost always is if that were true. Some Somalis can be racially ambiguous, i.e., Abdullahi Yusuf, Ahmed Karaash, etc.

Race in the West is a social construct subject to change, and it has always been a flimsy identity at best unless you're African American. It was not too long ago where Italians were excluded from the white category and were victims of racism. There's no question that the modern concept of race as we see it in the west has roots in racism and is/was designed to create a hierarchical social cast system based on arbitrary racial classifications.

I would put Somalis in their own category as it always has been.

We don't have a problem labeling others "black" or "white", but when it comes to us "race is a social construct".

 

[canjeeroiyoshah]

They don't. We're not Arabs.



We don't have a problem labeling others "black" or "white", but when it comes to us "race is a social construct".

Where did I say I have a problem with people identifying as Black or White? People can identify as they wish, and I'll always respect it. I just ask that they do the same in return.

I don't know where you're from, but growing up, we weren't considered Black, not even by white people or even Black people themselves. Fast forward to 2024, and apparently there was never any debate. Miss me with that bullshit.

 

[canjeeroiyoshah]

lool at the title ''The Natufians The Black People Who Invented Agriculture''

To be honest, if they were truly interested in African history they don't have to look too far to find agricultural inventions in Africa because Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea, Djibouti was one of the independent centers for early plant domestication.

Vavilov center - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Our Horn of African ancestors even introduced plants as well to the indus valley and domesticated the donkey and then introduced it to the near east



Macrobians are not even a real thing it's a greek mythology. So it's not like they are claiming something real or an actual place. They just look silly.

It's also unnecessary, because there is real history and there is factual accounts that i have recently come across that share the real developments in Somali history of the different ports and seaborn trade and our ancestors involvement in international systems in antiquity. Infact our ancestors were everywhere traveling far distances and ending up buried in Rome to my own surprise even.

One of the ports ''Mosylon'', were referred as the merchant capital of East Africa and the regional center for mercantile activities.
View attachment 344077


And how Somali became incredibly wealthy through their monopoly of certain luxury items, such as a dye they used to colour their clothing with and the colour purple they produced was especially luxurious and considered the colour royalty in ancient times.

Even our early migration history: How our ancestors came to populate the horn many thousand years ago is an interesting tale.

I first heard about these mythical people from a cousin of mine a while ago, and so I did some research but couldn't find anything lol.

 

[Idilinaa]

I first heard about these mythical people from a cousin of mine a while ago, and so I did some research but couldn't find anything lol.

I did some research into that name years ago. It's a pretty common literary term that refers to a classical myth in the mythography.

Medieval Mythography, Volume One: From Roman North Africa to ..​

 

[Emir of Zayla]

lool at the title ''The Natufians The Black People Who Invented Agriculture''

To be honest, if they were truly interested in African history they don't have to look too far to find agricultural inventions in Africa because Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea, Djibouti was one of the independent centers for early plant domestication.

I was under the impression that we were introduced to agriculture from the Nile Valley (Egypt & Sudan)?

 

[NidarNidar]

I’m very interested in the history the Afro-Asiatic language family and the Porto afro-asiatic culture.I wish there was more research

Not Natufian but closely related, E-78 origin is somewhere between Libya and Egypt, the main Somali male lineage comes from E-V32 a subclade of E-V12(which is common amongst Egyptians, Garre, Beja, Borana and Rendille) at various ranges.

E-V12 was most likely pushed into the Nile due to the end of the African humid period(14,000 ybp to around 6,000 ybp

"Current estimates believe that the Egyptian and Chadic language families were the first to diverge from the protolanguage, sometime prior to 8000 BCE, followed by Omotic in 8000 BCE and Cushitic before 7000 BCE. The last two groups to diverge were likely the Semitic group and the Berber group, both sometime between 6000–5000 BCE.

Afro-Asiatic languages are among the first languages to ever be documented through a writing system. Writing was invented (independently) a few times in human history, and the first two writing systems were created in the region where Afro-Asiatic languages are still spoken today."

Somalis have kept this Afro-Asiatic/Ethio-Somali component, if you look at the other groups we've been less affected.

T-L208(T-Y16897) variant looks to have arrived in Northern Egypt around 6,000 years ago, where it eventually went back through the Sinai, other branches remain and moved to Upper Egypt accounting for about 10% of the male lineage, it's also found in lower Sudan, it crossed over through the gulf of Aden/Bab el Mandel straight, around 2,200 ybp with a small group of related men, women and children and their entire wealth.