Am I missing something: Why are Somali men mad at this woman?

[Angelina]

In Somali, the word faqiir is sometimes used to describe someone who has less. Not just someone who can't afford basic needs. I think she should have clarified that tbh.
Provision is a man's duty and a woman's right but guys who are still not at the level where they need to be might feel offended by her statements.


Some of these speakers need public speaking lessons. This also applies to the male sheikhs that come off as too aggressive in their speeches. There are specific things that one should consider when talking to a group of people: Empathy, Tonal and volume control, consistent delivery e.t.c,

I’ve always seen the word Fakiir as very poor. You wouldn’t say someone who doesn’t have money but can provide the basics as ‘Fakiir’ you’d simply say he doesn’t have lacaag.

In a society like Somalia, men’s offense should mean nothing when it’s women who are dying in child birth due to lack of funds for hospitals and it’s women who are left the brunt of provision upon divorce or her kid will be taken away from her forever. On top of that, a poor woman is still threatened with her little provision for her and her kids being taken if her husband decides to marry again and now instead of her and the kids eating twice or three times a day they’re eating twice or only once and the kids don’t get new clothes and there is a possibility he’ll prefer the new wife and toss her into even more poverty.

 

[Rayaale]

Somali men are golddiggers. I watched a Somali sheikh say it was haram for Somali women not to give her wealth to her husband and that Somali women need to provide for their husbands.

Username checks out

 

[A Mean Guy]

I’ve always seen the word Fakiir as very poor. You wouldn’t say someone who doesn’t have money but can provide the basics as ‘Fakiir’ you’d simply say he doesn’t have lacaag.

I have lived back home for a good portion of my life and have seen men being referred to as fakhiir even tho the guy could provide food and shelter but not much further than that. I have also seen people who were homeless being referred to as fakhiir, it was used interchangeably.

In a society like Somalia, men’s offense should mean nothing when it’s women who are dying in child birth due to lack of funds for hospitals and it’s women who are left the brunt of provision upon divorce or her kid will be taken away from her forever. On top of that, a poor woman is still threatened with her little provision for her and her kids being taken if her husband decides to marry again and now instead of her and the kids eating twice or three times a day they’re eating twice or only once and the kids don’t get new clothes and there is a possibility he’ll prefer the new wife and toss her into even more poverty.

I agree, all I'm saying is that there are countless of women always complaining about sheikhs aggressive khutbahs on topics such as polygamy, obedience, s*xual duties e.t.c.,. The same could be applied to this.

For advice to be effective, it needs to be delivered in a way that respects the listener's autonomy, builds trust, and demonstrates empathy. Aggressive advice often fails because it undermines these psychological principles, triggering defensiveness, resistance, and emotional barriers that prevent effective communication. Instead, a more constructive, calm, and empathetic approach is often more successful in encouraging people to listen, reflect, and act on the advice given.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

When did Muna say you should only marry rich? Do you know what Fakiir means? It means very poor. She never said only marry a rich man. She said don’t marry a dirt poor one

Conventional deduction: marry not a poor man translates only seek the rich (not wealthy) men.

The Prophet s.a.w never said Muawiyah was bad. He was simply very poor which is why he said don’t marry him. He said he should
Marry Usama who wasn’t poor.

He is another version of the Hadith:

She said: When my period of 'Idda was over, I mentioned to him that Mu'awiya b. Abu Sufyan and Jahm had sent proposal of marriage to me, whereupon Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: As for Abu Jahm, he does not put down his staff from his shoulder, and as for Mu'awiya, he is a poor man having no property; marry Usama b. Zaid. I objected to him, but he again said: Marry Usama; so I married him. Allah blessed there in and I was envied (by others).

Three men proposed to the female Sahabi. One was poor, one was abusive and one was neither of that. Muawiya wasn’t bad. He was a Sahabi and even a Calipha late on in Islamic history but at the time he was poor and had no property which is why the Prophet s.a.w said to not marry him.

There was a reason I offered this definition of 'poor'.
- Poor (impoverished): Lacking basic needs, or means for a decent existence.

The hadith is very clear, virtue, and not material is of importance (interestingly 'is good' is only found in the English translation, but not in the Arabic, have to find the original text and relevance).

Also, please read by in-depth analysis of the situation. I’d love to hear your views.

Of course.

 

[Rayaale]

Because a Majority of the men back home are poor.

I'm not surprised with what she said. I honestly use to wonder how the hell Somali men were able to afford marriages back home. Here in the west it's pretty much mandatory for most Somali men to become financially stable before marriage.

Is becoming financially stable even possible for most Somali guys back home???

I need answers from niggas that actually been back home. Warya come in @Grigori Rasputin

Marriage is more like dating back home,as long as you sort the mehr and wedding you’ll figure the rest

 

[Rayaale]

And why are they poorer than they are supposed to be?

1. Their ancestors decided to marry multiple women and split the family inheritance too much
2. Their ancestors fostered culture where manual labour is despised, and a lot of the work back home, is manual labour.
3. The ones that do find work, self-employed, but they want to make their few cents stretch between several households or chew khat.

All the issues in Somalia are MAN-MADE, with easy solutions.

But it's easier to blame women, live off of women, and generally be weak.

The bar is too low for Somali men we need to do better

 

[Rayaale]

Btw, guys there is difference between being Fakiir and not having a lot of money. You can have a bare minimum job and can provide a roof and meals then such a man in a society like Somalia won’t be seen as Fakiir although they’d be poor in our Western world. I don’t think Ms Muna was judging poverty the way we are and she was probably talking about the very bottom rung of society that worry when they’re going to eat next. In a world in which women are dying due to child birth because of extreme poverty and high rates of divorce, Ms Muna’s point comes from a place of simply observing Somali society.

Whilst in Somalia, I saw things that lowkey horrified me. I saw men who would marry and divorce and then take away kids that are under 5 and throw them at the next wife because they don’t want to give child support and a young woman who is poor will have to give away her child due to how poor she is. She will accept terms that are unbearable for any mother: Being separated from her child since if she keep the child her ex won’t give the child a penny and they’ll both starve since her poor parents don’t have enough food for her and a kid.

The woman who can’t bear to be away from her kids will work in the heat selling tomatoes and other vegetables. Recently we’ve seen women working in building sites. Welcome to Somalia.

She’s from the north if you translate it well she meant don’t marry losers basically those guys who wake up at 11am eat some food and start chewing khat until midnight

 

[Angelina]

Conventional deduction: marry not a poor man translates only seek the rich (not wealthy) men.

You’re better than this. Black and white thinking is below you. You know that there is a middle group and even a group that don’t have much but aren’t in poverty.

There was a reason I offered this definition of 'poor'.
- Poor (impoverished): Lacking basic needs, or means for a decent existence.

The hadith is very clear, virtue, and not material is of importance (interestingly 'is good' is only found in the English translation, but not in the Arabic, have to find the original text and relevance).

Of course.

Saxib, it isn’t clear because if he was he wouldn’t have said don’t marry Muawiya as he’s poor. Usama was not only good but he wasn’t poor. You’re conveniently mistranslating this Hadith and creating the impression that Muawiya wasn’t a good man. He’s only issue was Muawiyes poverty levels. Even Muna says to marry a good man who isn’t that poor.

 

[GemState]

It's wrong for women to discriminate against the financially challenged

 

[Kalsoon]

Fakiir in Somali means someone very poor and can’t provide the basics. If she said only marry rich men or don’t marry men who don’t have a lot of money, then I would understand the backlash. But we’re talking about Fakhiir here which is poor poor as seen struggling for a roof and food.

I understood her to mean a man who can’t provide more than the basics. I don’t think she examined the wide range of interpretations that could be taken from her words. She should have made specific examples for people to understand where she’s coming from.

This could be chalked up to miscommunication. I do believe talks like this create more of a barrier to understanding the opposite gender. As a people we should look for ways to reduce gender wars overall.

 

[Angelina]

I have lived back home for a good portion of my life and have seen men being referred to as fakhiir even tho the guy could provide food and shelter but not much further than that. I have also seen people who were homeless being referred to as fakhiir, it was used interchangeably.


I'm agree, all I'm saying is that there are countless of women always complaining about sheikhs aggressive khutbahs on topics such as polygamy, obedience, s*xual duties e.t.c.,. The same could be applied to this.

For advice to be effective, it needs to be delivered in a way that respects the listener's autonomy, builds trust, and demonstrates empathy. Aggressive advice often fails because it undermines these psychological principles, triggering defensiveness, resistance, and emotional barriers that prevent effective communication. Instead, a more constructive, calm, and empathetic approach is often more successful in encouraging people to listen, reflect, and act on the advice given.

Yes and when the women complain to do you see society wide bulling of that sheikh and lies and slanders that are thrown at him? The thing is, her point actually has real life ramifications and our culture is one in which irresponsible men aren’t held accountable and this literally results in societal issues and collapses. The reaction of the masses that was so vitriol and hysterical is a great example of how Somali society is male centered and anything that remotely inconveniences men is swiftly dealt with whilst Sheikhs can lie and say many Somali women have HIV and can continue peddling mentalities that make the lives of our women hell.

 

[Lightshow]

Ok so

Spot on. Niggas will have to resort to zina to satisfy their urges if no woman looks their way for marriage. I'd never marry off a daughter of mine to a poor bastard though. Qofto kale raadso abti

So would you rather a poor man with good character and morals or a rich man with poor character and reprehensible traits?

The Dowry of Fatimah​

The dowry of Fatimah (s.a.) was very simple. The Prophet (S) had assigned it so to be an example for all the women of his nation so that no man and no woman might remain unmarried because of high dowries.
The Prophet (S) said to Imam Ali (a.s.), ‘O Ali, do you have something (to pay as dowry)?’
Imam Ali (a.s.) said, ‘I have a sword, an armor, and a horse.’
The Prophet (S) said to him, ‘As for your horse, you need it, and as for your sword, you cannot do without it, but as for your armor, you can sell it.’9
Imam Ali (a.s.) went to the market and sold his armor for four hundred and eighty dirhams and came back with the amount knotted in the end of his shirt,10 and put it before the Prophet (S). It was a very simple dowry and it was less than what the poor might pay for their wives.

 

[Angelina]

I understood her to mean a man who can’t provide more than the basics. I don’t think she examined the wide range of interpretations that could be taken from her words. She should have made specific examples for people to understand where she’s coming from.

This could be chalked up to miscommunication. I do believe talks like this create more of a barrier to understanding the opposite gender. As a people we should look for ways to reduce gender wars overall.

If that was the case she wouldn’t have also
mentioned men that are eating Khat doing nothing all day. Her lecture wasn’t even fully shown. They heard one part they didn’t like and the whole of society bullied her and ganged up on her.

Also, context is key here. If she was talking to a Western Somali audience, her backlash would be warranted. But in Somali society, a place in which 90% are poor, Fakhiir clearly means the bottom rung. Any man that doesn’t have money but can provide a small apartment and food isn’t poor in Somali society. Some of our women are marrying and birth in camps or have to go back to parents house for meals. Don’t underestimate the poverty back home that would make us privileged Western girls rip our hair out.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

You’re better than this. Black and white thinking is below you. You know that there is a middle group and even a group that don’t have much but aren’t in poverty.

How shall I read it? Remember where I said I am only going by the two clips, and what she said in that context?

By the way, here is the definition of 'faqir' from the Arabic qamus:
الفَقِيرُ من الناس: من لا يملك إِلاَّ أقل القُوت

Saxib, it isn’t clear because if he was he wouldn’t have said don’t marry Muawiya as he’s poor. Usama was not only good but he wasn’t poor. You’re conveniently mistranslating this Hadith and creating the impression that Muawiya wasn’t a good man. He’s only issue was Muawiyes poverty levels. Even Muna says to marry a good man who isn’t that poor.

Remember where I said I have to find the original text, and relevance.

 

[Rayaale]

Jeez another moron. I never said they were there for women's rights

Exactly.

Somalia is so bad that Somalis are in South Africa.

You are working overtime huuno calm down

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

My analysis of the situation.

I can see why telling Somali women not to marry poorer men will cause a stir in a society in which 90% of the men are indeed poor. However, from my understanding, Fakiir is a different level of poor. It is a type of poverty in which a man will struggle with a roof over a woman’s head and even her next meal.

Simple solution: if a woman is of a poor family, society, then she should be seeking a poor man, and a vice versa.

I’m not going to lie, the backlash of Somali men against Sh. Muna drummed home to me how selfish many of our brothers are. They’re thinking of how such a message will stop them having wives to sleep with despite not even having the ability of providing three meals a day.

This is the first time I am hearing of her, or seeing her. Was there a backlash? See if you could share.

Somali women unlike other traditional cultures don’t have the luxury of men who will always take the burden of provision. All it takes is one talaq or for him to prefer the company of another wife and a woman can find her and her kids nearly starving, reduced to beggars, crying to tribal relatives.

I’m also disgusted with many of the pick mes in our community screaming about wanting a poor man and bashing Muna. @Mozart, unfortunately you do have a point. If someone looks at the videos you actually find just as many women bashing Sh. Muna for simply telling them to persevere and benefit themselves. The low self-esteem and stupidity is open for everyone to see. Somali men are smart enough to put themselves first. That’s why they’ve bullied Muna because her message dampens their ability to marry multiple women with hardly a dime and responsibility towards their offspring, but we have far and I mean far too many women who have 0 respect for themselves and 0 braincells to rub together who don’t understand that the same men they’re screaming for will always put themselves first and ultimately pay them dust.

I could not possibly offer an opinion on these points, lest lambasted for pontificating, as this is well beyond the scope of familiarity, and the subject at hand.

 

[Rayaale]

I lived in London my whole life, I've been in Saudi for a year. London is as bad as it gets, most of our parents arrived in an islamiphobic, hostile, gang blooming city/country and trust me, not having an insanely helpful relocation/welfare system for refugees like the the American somalis did a number on somali londoners.

Somalis in the uk have done well to be honest with all odds against them they are still striving despite only been there for less than 35 years

 

[EyiPunter]

It's because everyone is poor in Somalia. And this women who comes from the lavish west goes to a poor ass country to lecture the women to stay away from all the poor men which is 99% of the men lol.

Sxb how can she be promoting femcel ideology in a poor country? It makes no sense

 

[Laiss]

The point she was making is that madow men built their own countries , Somali men destroyed theirs . Look at the African countries that Somalis fled to for safety.
By the way what have Faraxis contribute to society?
The most successful madow men in the west are west Africans .

Clock it

 

[Khaemwaset]

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Just stop capping bro

@Unbothered you're a bum walahi