Am I missing something: Why are Somali men mad at this woman?

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

@𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈 ​

There is no need to pontificate about materialism vs. spiritualism or deconstruct her arguments.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

If you could re-listen to the 2 clips, and then re-read where I make the 'mutual exclusivity' point.

As we know, women often bear the primary responsibility for caregiving and, in the event of divorce, assume the role of the de facto parent. Their burden is far heavier than that of certain men, whose motivations seem more rooted in seeking lawful avenues for shagging—pardon the French—or congress without bearing substantial costs.

Common amongst most societies, and not unique to Somalis, same could be observed in Council Estates in the UK.

The Messenger of Allah said: 'As for Muawiyah, he is a poor man who has no money. As from Abu Jahm he is a man who habitually beats woman. But Usamah (is good).' She gestured with her hand, saying: 'Usamah, Usamah!?'

Sunan Ibn Majah 1869 - The Chapters on Marriage - كتاب النكاح - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

Why did the Prophet s.a.w tell Fatima bin Quis to not marry Muawiyah because he was poor?

Not the poor, nor the abuser, but the 'good' one, which negates Ms Muna's core message of advocating for marrying only the rich?

 

[rayxn3]

You're talking about that one time, that was because i had you mixed up with Malab abaayo you guys are similar

Sister you could be mixing her up too. You never know

 

[Sa_Male]

The ones talking online don't leave their yard bro

All the Somali girls i know are good and fine, they do smth with themselves alx. In the real world Somali men and women are socialised with each other.

Absolutely, the ones normal enough normally find a spouse and breed lol Whilst the others that can speak like humans speak to any Somali they come across. I definitely believe however that the uk diaspora is leagues behind other diasporas, and the normal is actually almost a minority, in my experience like 30percent.

 

[Khaem]

Sister you could be mixing her up too. You never know

Nah sis I clearly remember that

 

[Sa_Male]

Nah sis I clearly remember that

Call her bro tf

 

[rayxn3]

Have you stepped into a warehouse before? Every single one will have Abdis from 16 to 22 in them

I don’t want to step into a warehouse with abdis but good for them

 

[Sa_Male]

Call her bro tf

Don't laugh, sxb is choosing to be kind, give him his manhood back.

 

[Sa_Male]

I don’t want to step into a warehouse with abdis but good for them

ABDIS OR BEARS?? WHAT WILL THE HALIMO GO WITH......

 

[Shayla]

They are like ‘madow men are losers like us, how dare you say madow men are better than us‘

It's absolutely hilarious.

But really sad actually.

It betrays how they think.

 

[Shayla]

Fakiir in Somali means someone very poor and can’t provide the basics. If she said only marry rich men or don’t marry men who don’t have a lot of money, then I would understand the backlash. But we’re talking about Fakhiir here which is poor poor as seen struggling for a roof and food.

Yeah.

It's hard marrying a man who can't even provide food.

I don't think the woman is saying don't marry a man with a low paying job..

The woman is saying don't marry a man who cannot provide atleast the basics.

 

[Angelina]

My analysis of the situation.

I can see why telling Somali women not to marry poorer men will cause a stir in a society in which 90% of the men are indeed poor. However, from my understanding, Fakiir is a different level of poor. It is a type of poverty in which a man will struggle with a roof over a woman’s head and even her next meal.

To add, I find it difficult to be charitable or even understanding of the concerns of Somali men who attested Sh. Muna’s statement simply due to our cultural track record. We’re a society in which mothers bare the main brunt of children and even in the event of divorce, a woman with a very poor ex will be expected to not only raise her children alone but try and find sustenance for those kids. We also have one of the highest mother mortality rates in the world mostly fueled by poverty and lack of medical attention in rural areas. To make matters worse, women married to very poor men are still expected to compete for resources since a poor man with 5 kids will try and marry again despite his kids not having any form of schooling and even shoes.

I’m not going to lie, the backlash of Somali men against Sh. Muna drummed home to me how selfish many of our brothers are. They’re thinking of how such a message will stop them having wives to sleep with despite not even having the ability of providing three meals a day. Somali women unlike other traditional cultures don’t have the luxury of men who will always take the burden of provision. All it takes is one talaq or for him to prefer the company of another wife and a woman can find her and her kids nearly starving, reduced to beggars, crying to tribal relatives.

I’m also disgusted with many of the pick mes in our community screaming about wanting a poor man and bashing Muna. @Mozart, unfortunately you do have a point. If someone looks at the videos you actually find just as many women bashing Sh. Muna for simply telling them to persevere and benefit themselves. The low self-esteem and stupidity is open for everyone to see. Somali men are smart enough to put themselves first. That’s why they’ve bullied Muna because her message dampens their ability to marry multiple women with hardly a dime and responsibility towards their offspring, but we have far and I mean far too many women who have 0 respect for themselves and 0 braincells to rub together who don’t understand that the same men they’re screaming for will always put themselves first and ultimately pay them dust.

 

[Khaem]

It's absolutely hilarious.

But really sad actually.

It betrays how they think.

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[Sa_Male]

My analysis of the situation.

I can see why telling Somali women not to marry poorer men will cause a stir in a society in which 90% of the men are indeed poor. However, from my understanding, Fakiir is a different level of poor. It is a type of poverty in which a man will struggle with a roof over a woman’s head and even her next meal.

To add, I find it difficult to be charitable or even understanding of the concerns of Somali men who attested Sh. Muna’s statement simply due to our cultural track record. We’re a society in which mothers bare the main brunt of children and even in the event of divorce, a woman with a very poor ex will be expected to not only raise her children alone but try and find sustenance for those kids. We also have one of the highest mother maternal rates in the world mostly fueled by poverty and lack of medical attention in rural areas. To make matters worse, women married to very poor men are still expected to compete for resources since a poor man with 5 kids will try and marry again despite his kids not having any form of schooling and even shoes.

I’m not going to lie, the backlash of Somali men against Sh. Muna drummed home to me how selfish many of our brothers are. They’re thinking of how such a message will stop them having wives to sleep with despite not even having the ability of providing three meals a day. Somali women unlike other traditional cultures don’t have the luxury of men who will always take the burden of provision. All it takes is one talaq or for him to prefer the company of another wife and a woman can find her and her kids nearly starving, reduced to beggars, crying to tribal relatives.

I’m also disgusted with many of the pick mes in our community screaming about wanting a poor man and bashing Muna. @Mozart, unfortunately you do have a point. If someone looks at the videos you actually find just as many women bashing Sh. Muna for simply telling them to persevere and benefit themselves. The low self-esteem and stupidity is open for everyone to see. Somali men are smart enough to put themselves first. That’s why they’ve bullied Muna because her message dampens their ability to marry multiple women with hardly a dime and responsibility towards their offspring, but we have far and I mean far too many women who have 0 respect for themselves and 0 braincells to rub together who don’t understand that the same men they’re screaming for will always put themselves first and ultimately pay them dust.

She was absolutely right, as a quasi red piller encouraging women to marry men that aren't poor is a service to society.

 

[Shayla]

My analysis of the situation.

I can see why telling Somali women not to marry poorer men will cause a stir in a society in which 90% of the men are indeed poor. However, from my understanding, Fakiir is a different level of poor. It is a type of poverty in which a man will struggle with a roof over a woman’s head and even her next meal.

To add, I find it difficult to be charitable or even understanding of the concerns of Somali men who attested Sh. Muna’s statement simply due to our cultural track record. We’re a society in which mothers bare the main brunt of children and even in the event of divorce, a woman with a very poor ex will be expected to not only raise her children alone but try and find sustenance for those kids. We also have one of the highest mother maternal rates in the world mostly fueled by poverty and lack of medical attention in rural areas. To make matters worse, women married to very poor men are still expected to compete for resources since a poor man with 5 kids will try and marry again despite his kids not having any form of schooling and even shoes.

I’m not going to lie, the backlash of Somali men against Sh. Muna drummed home to me how selfish many of our brothers are. They’re thinking of how such a message will stop them having wives to sleep with despite not even having the ability of providing three meals a day. Somali women unlike other traditional cultures don’t have the luxury of men who will always take the burden of provision. All it takes is one talaq or for him to prefer the company of another wife and a woman can find her and her kids nearly starving, reduced to beggars, crying to tribal relatives.

I’m also disgusted with many of the pick mes in our community screaming about wanting a poor man and bashing Muna. @Mozart, unfortunately you do have a point. If someone looks at the videos you actually find just as many women bashing Sh. Muna for simply telling them to persevere and benefit themselves. The low self-esteem and stupidity is open for everyone to see. Somali men are smart enough to put themselves first. That’s why they’ve bullied Muna because her message dampens their ability to marry multiple women with hardly a dime and responsibility towards their offspring, but we have far and I mean far too many women who have 0 respect for themselves and 0 braincells to rub together who don’t understand that the same men they’re screaming for will always put themselves first and ultimately pay them dust.

If Somali women keep listening to Somali sheikhs/ men they will be forever fucked.

Somali men hate woman like Muna, because they are afraid of their mules waking up and smelling the coffee.

 

[Sa_Male]

If Somali women keep listening to Somali sheikhs/ men they will be forever fucked.

Somali men hate woman like Muna, because they are afraid of their mules waking up and smelling the coffee.

Dissatisfied women normally aren't very beneficial to a society.

 

[Angelina]

If you could re-listen to the 2 clips, and then re-read where I make the 'mutual exclusivity' point.


Common amongst most societies, and not unique to Somalis, same could be observed in Council Estates in the UK.


Not the poor, nor the abuser, but the 'good' one, which negates Ms Muna's core message of advocating for marrying only the rich?

When did Muna say you should only marry rich? Do you know what Fakiir means? It means very poor. She never said only marry a rich man. She said don’t marry a dirt poor one

The Prophet s.a.w never said Muawiyah was bad. He was simply very poor which is why he said don’t marry him. He said he should
Marry Usama who wasn’t poor.

He is another version of the Hadith:

She said: When my period of 'Idda was over, I mentioned to him that Mu'awiya b. Abu Sufyan and Jahm had sent proposal of marriage to me, whereupon Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: As for Abu Jahm, he does not put down his staff from his shoulder, and as for Mu'awiya, he is a poor man having no property; marry Usama b. Zaid. I objected to him, but he again said: Marry Usama; so I married him. Allah blessed there in and I was envied (by others).

Three men proposed to the female Sahabi. One was poor, one was abusive and one was neither of that. Muawiya wasn’t bad. He was a Sahabi and even a Calipha late on in Islamic history but at the time he was poor and had no property which is why the Prophet s.a.w said to not marry him.

Also, please read by in-depth analysis of the situation. I’d love to hear your views.

 

[A Mean Guy]

When did Muna say you should only marry rich?

In Somali, the word faqiir is sometimes used to describe someone who has less. Not just someone who can't afford basic needs. I think she should have clarified that tbh.
Provision is a man's duty and a woman's right but guys who are still not at the level where they need to be might feel offended by her statements.

Her message is correct but her delivery need improving. Compare it to the videos of sheikhs talking about obedience.

Some of these speakers need public speaking lessons. This also applies to the male sheikhs that come off as too aggressive in their speeches. There are specific things that one should consider when talking to a group of people: Empathy, Tonal and volume control, consistent delivery e.t.c,

 

[Sa_Male]

In Somali, the word faqiir is sometimes used to describe someone who has less. Not just someone who can't afford basic needs. I think she should have clarified that tbh.

Some of these speakers need public speaking lessons. This also applies to the male sheikhs that come off as too aggressive in their speeches.

Nobody listens to them otherwise lmao they need overgeneralisation and emotional arguments

 

[Angelina]

Btw, guys there is difference between being Fakiir and not having a lot of money. You can have a bare minimum job and can provide a roof and meals then such a man in a society like Somalia won’t be seen as Fakiir although they’d be poor in our Western world. I don’t think Ms Muna was judging poverty the way we are and she was probably talking about the very bottom rung of society that worry when they’re going to eat next. In a world in which women are dying due to child birth because of extreme poverty and high rates of divorce, Ms Muna’s point comes from a place of simply observing Somali society.

Whilst in Somalia, I saw things that lowkey horrified me. I saw men who would marry and divorce and then take away kids that are under 5 and throw them at the next wife because they don’t want to give child support and a young woman who is poor will have to give away her child due to how poor she is. She will accept terms that are unbearable for any mother: Being separated from her child since if she keep the child her ex won’t give the child a penny and they’ll both starve since her poor parents don’t have enough food for her and a kid.

The woman who can’t bear to be away from her kids will work in the heat selling tomatoes and other vegetables. Recently we’ve seen women working in building sites. Welcome to Somalia.

 

[Marmarsi]

So basically, in a lecture this woman told Somali women back home not to marry overly poor men:

TikTok - Make Your Day

vt.tiktok.com

Now the men in Somalia went up in arms and started insulting her.

Now this Jiheeye man is even insinuating disgusting things about her just because she dared to say don’t marry very poor men.

TikTok - Make Your Day

vt.tiktok.com

Knowing the situation back home in which very poor means not even having proper roof over their heads or even food to feed their kids which is why they beg the diaspora and we see crying women on TikTok asking for money, why is that advise so threatening to Somali men? Didn’t the Prophet s.a.w tell very poor men to fast?

Somalia is the only country where ”hala shaqaysto” is considered hate speech against men kkkkkkkkkk

On a serious note tho, somali mens approach to marriage is the same approach they have to everything else in life. Even statebuilding. It’s always someone elses responsibility to take care of their duties. Aid, welfare, remittances, it’s all the same.

Even in their marriages they refuse to do their part. Mehr/maintenance is paid by the family/qabil, if even that. There are few, if any, expectations for men in that country.. as husbands, fathers or as politicians.

Lol I saw one sheikh come out and advise women to gather three other women, lacagta isku darsada kulaha and then marry one guy together

Wallahi If you teach people that they deserve everything and they have no obligations towards anyone, expect them to act as such.

So when someone like Shikh Muna comes along and says: no! Someone who is not capable of fulfilling their responsibilites towards their wife (and future children) should not be married. Expect people to chimp out. Xita mamada kamay xishoon. They’re in the comments calling her every variation of the word wh*re. These are the people that are trying to convince us she was wrong in making those statements, uff uff uff.


The truth is we have a male (adult) loser epidemic in our community and no one is looking to address it.