I'll check it later, I am at work currently
Are All Hadiths Correct?
- Thread starter Bidaar Wanagsan
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I'll check it later, I am at work currently
Nice dodge. Bet we never see you again.
Admit it man: you're al-Shabab's social media arm.
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Maybe it's a metaphor. You will find plenty of anti-scientific stuff in premodern translations and tafsirs because it never occurred to them that the sun does not set. I'm sure there will be even more errors in how we presently understand the Quran as more and more scientific discoveries change how we see the universe. That's why I'm against literalism. It's bound to be disproven by the onward march of time.
As for the Gog and Magog, yes, that sounds irrational. It's fitting it comes from hadiths because there is nothing about that in the Quran al-Karim.
The author of the book that was discussed in the OP is this one, sheikh Atabek Shukurov. He explains why Sahih Bukhari is not as sound as often claimed:
I will repost @shan-futo-le's epic comment on the many things in the "sahih" hadiths that contradict the Quran, science, and reason:
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Inquisitive_
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I have actually watched the video and he said absolutely nothing that the OP posted, he is either deliberately being dishonest as part of his nefarious agenda on here or his religious foundation is so lacking that the conclusions he draws are just heretical in nature.
I know Shabir Alley very well and he would never say such things, hence why I watched the whole video, even I didn't think this bakhti would be so brazen with his lies.
The 200 hadith he spoke off is the Mutwatir hadiths as per one of the Hanafi schools, the number of these types of hadiths is disputed depending on the classification and methodology each school of thought takes, some are more lax others are more strict.
Mutawatir hadith are those that have been narrated by a large number of the salaf with so many different chains of transmission with not a single discrepancy in the text, they are graded the highest for this reason, it's just one of the many hadith classifications.
The hadith could be mutawatir in both actual text as well as in the meaning, each school differs depending upon the methodology that is used (usool) on which is mutawatir and which is not, this is a very rigorous complex science not for the laymen, so I won't even entertain this topic.
This lying scumbag has took this statement of Shabir Ally with clarifications and twisted it to serve his own sinister agenda like his orientalist overlords, their age old plan has always been to attack the hadith literature/science, and if they are successful in discrediting this, it automatically discredits the Quran too because those same sources have transmitted those words to us.
That's the whole end game behind this, 2 birds, 1 stone.
I know Shabir Alley very well and he would never say such things, hence why I watched the whole video, even I didn't think this bakhti would be so brazen with his lies.
The 200 hadith he spoke off is the Mutwatir hadiths as per one of the Hanafi schools, the number of these types of hadiths is disputed depending on the classification and methodology each school of thought takes, some are more lax others are more strict.
Mutawatir hadith are those that have been narrated by a large number of the salaf with so many different chains of transmission with not a single discrepancy in the text, they are graded the highest for this reason, it's just one of the many hadith classifications.
The hadith could be mutawatir in both actual text as well as in the meaning, each school differs depending upon the methodology that is used (usool) on which is mutawatir and which is not, this is a very rigorous complex science not for the laymen, so I won't even entertain this topic.
This lying scumbag has took this statement of Shabir Ally with clarifications and twisted it to serve his own sinister agenda like his orientalist overlords, their age old plan has always been to attack the hadith literature/science, and if they are successful in discrediting this, it automatically discredits the Quran too because those same sources have transmitted those words to us.
That's the whole end game behind this, 2 birds, 1 stone.
Inquisitive_
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@shan-futo-le post came from the following Anti Islamic site run by the usual orientalist liars.
https://ancientmodernislam.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/some-lies-from-hadith-books.html
He is even linking to an article titled "Hadith plagiarized from the bible"
That site reminds me of a similar piece answeringislam.com site did (the author being a former Ahmediya pagan that classes himself as an Ex Muslim).
A site which had a habit of posting clear cut lies, twisting the original Arabic text, quoting fabricated hadith as unanimously agreed upon by all our scholars but making them appear as though they were authentic hadiths coming from Bukhari.
They were routinely debunked by answeringchristianity.com, if you can't even read the classical Arabic texts, you should never take the words of the orientalist satanist liars nor the words of the pagan Munafiq's.
https://ancientmodernislam.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/some-lies-from-hadith-books.html
He is even linking to an article titled "Hadith plagiarized from the bible"
That site reminds me of a similar piece answeringislam.com site did (the author being a former Ahmediya pagan that classes himself as an Ex Muslim).
A site which had a habit of posting clear cut lies, twisting the original Arabic text, quoting fabricated hadith as unanimously agreed upon by all our scholars but making them appear as though they were authentic hadiths coming from Bukhari.
They were routinely debunked by answeringchristianity.com, if you can't even read the classical Arabic texts, you should never take the words of the orientalist satanist liars nor the words of the pagan Munafiq's.
Lord Flacko
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How did we even have a Cold War when the US or USSR can't shoot nukes towards eachother because the earth is round
smh atheists don't even know basic directions or how to use a compass relative to your position
Genie
The last suugo bender
Actually no my list came from the islamic ummah forums where one brother asked another brother who has studied the hadith why the above hadiths seem to contradict the quran and each other. Curiosity and asking shouldn't make one a heretic or a gaal , we need to debate about many issues hadith included i'm not a Quranist far from it , i heavily rely on the hadith from how to pray to how to make dua's just like the prophet would , however there are some hadiths the above included that have wronged our prophet in calling him a pagan (one of the hadith suggested he ordered the sahabah to unearth an already buried body in which he kissed the body and prayed up on it and then ordered the sahaba to bury the person again) now to me this is paganism and should not be attributed to our prophet (saw) as Allah mentioned in the Qur'an that our prophets was pure. Don't let Bidaar Wanagsan fool you. I hardly share his views , he's the there side of the extreme scale in which he is too lax and he doesn't seem to take it seriously.
in the thread i posted the list after a brother on here said that i should bring forth evidence that the hadith is skewed to which i found that archived forum and copied and pasted the list and told the brother that these are some known and listed hadiths that most have cited problems with.
SuldaanGuled
Rag waa shaah dumarna waa sheeko.
Why are you taking this guy seriously ? from what i can tell he doesn't seem to be a muslim and if you look at all the videos he has ever posted regarding anything islamic he always twists the statements to suit the agenda he's pushing which is to create doubts in the hearts & minds of those who still adhere to islam.
As a matter of fact he's actually worse than kan isku bixiyay badeeriga mulxidiinta as he pretends to be muslim while espousing believes of the former. Shabir was referring to a particular type of hadeeth as @Inquisitive_ has explained laakin shabir and most of those who follow the hanafi school of thought are either maturidi, ashari, mutzailite in creed. He has weird views when it comes to qadr/predestination is islam, i don't know if he changed views but last i remember was that he believed that Allah doesn't know the choices a person will make until the persons makes them. It's not only him but also a number of scholars, callers to islam from this school of thought that share somewhat a similar view on qadr and other matters as well. Even in shafic's you'll find quite a lot but in my life i've never known a somali scholar to hold such views, they do exist but i have never heard or met them before.
@shan-futo-le couldyou post the hadith you were referring to ? secondly how is that paganism ?
As a matter of fact he's actually worse than kan isku bixiyay badeeriga mulxidiinta as he pretends to be muslim while espousing believes of the former. Shabir was referring to a particular type of hadeeth as @Inquisitive_ has explained laakin shabir and most of those who follow the hanafi school of thought are either maturidi, ashari, mutzailite in creed. He has weird views when it comes to qadr/predestination is islam, i don't know if he changed views but last i remember was that he believed that Allah doesn't know the choices a person will make until the persons makes them. It's not only him but also a number of scholars, callers to islam from this school of thought that share somewhat a similar view on qadr and other matters as well. Even in shafic's you'll find quite a lot but in my life i've never known a somali scholar to hold such views, they do exist but i have never heard or met them before.
@shan-futo-le couldyou post the hadith you were referring to ? secondly how is that paganism ?
interesting, hanfi view, i admit i have only studied malaki fiqh and it relies even less on hadith than , hanafi.
a very large percentage of hadiths are faulty and should be rejected, because they contradict the quran.
the hadiths are not holy..
please remember this.
only the quran is, the only hadiths that have any value is those that coincidence and dovetail with quran ayat,
if they dont support the quran than they have zero value.
a very large percentage of hadiths are faulty and should be rejected, because they contradict the quran.
the hadiths are not holy..
please remember this.
only the quran is, the only hadiths that have any value is those that coincidence and dovetail with quran ayat,
if they dont support the quran than they have zero value.
I congratulate you on improving your grammar since we last had occasion to speak my lemon cake. Please pass my warm regards to your beautiful mother. I miss her tight clit.
Awoowe, let me correct you. The video in the OP is part of a series called Taking A Balanced Approach To Hadith. The whole series can be viewed by clicking on the "Hadith" playlist of that YouTube channel. When you do so, you'll discover what is only partially apparent from this video: that he regards many hadiths about apostasy, music, jinn possession, predestination, and punishments for things like plucking of eyebrows as forgeries. You claim to know Shabir Ally well (perhaps you even live with him for all we know), but there is no connection between your extreme Salafi theology and his middle of the road ijtihad.
He, along with Shaykh Hamza Yusuf, advocates secularism, human rights, and science. For instance, he defends evolution. You do not. And then you accuse sheikh Bidaar Wanagsan of misrepresenting him? Alla beerka iyo wadnaha.
thank you bidarwanaagsan for introducing me to shiekh atabek shukurov
what he says is mirror image of what i believe...
and he is right he syas 80% of sunnis today are hanbalis, but not exactly they are pseudo hanbalis they have been infected by psuedo hanbali theology and do not follow hanafi or shafici, i believe probably half the malakis have also been infected.
Shiekh hanbal was one of the greatest scholars and if they all followed his teachings things wouldnt be so bad,
basically he is saying that sunnis of all madhabs and aqeedas have been slowly infiltrated by the sal;afis.
what he says is mirror image of what i believe...
and he is right he syas 80% of sunnis today are hanbalis, but not exactly they are pseudo hanbalis they have been infected by psuedo hanbali theology and do not follow hanafi or shafici, i believe probably half the malakis have also been infected.
Shiekh hanbal was one of the greatest scholars and if they all followed his teachings things wouldnt be so bad,
basically he is saying that sunnis of all madhabs and aqeedas have been slowly infiltrated by the sal;afis.
Adeer, take Ibn Taymiyyah's gus out of your anal cavity, wipe his semen from your handsome face, pull your pants up, and fear Allah. You have supplied no evidence that the website which @shan-futo-le took that critique from is anything but a Muslim site; you have made takfir on so many people on this forum that your opinion of who is or is not a Muslim carries the same weight as the condom I use on your beautiful mother. It has not gone unnoticed that you have not answered the critique it advances of your man made hadiths. That is proof that you can't answer it.
Shan Futo has always been frank about the fact she got that critique from Ummah forum, so it's not plagiarism. Less allegations please, and more arguments.
Don't speak to your father in that tone. I know I wasn't around when you were growing up, son, but that was because your mother did not like it when I forced myself on her. So she kicked me out. Maybe we can meet over coffee and bond?
So you think Shabir Ally is evil too do you? How wonderful. Only salafis like you are right I bet. Tell us more kid
Ferrari
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Islam described the shape of the earth before science did.how can it contradict it marka? Science is ever changing, don't make shit up waryaa.
You're welcome my brother from another mother. Anybody who beats up Emirati fellas must be on the straight path.
I love sheikh Atabek Shukurov. He's a great mujtahid. He tells the truth about the bogus hadith industry. His book is a must read. Most of the extremism in the world comes from worshippers of prophet Bukhari. He puts him in his right place. I liked his explanation of the way Bukhari attacked Imam Abu Hanifa. Totally unjustified.
You're right. Most of the schools of thought today have been co-opted by the Salafi fitna. Many of the masjids and Islamic centres are basically an arm of Saudi propaganda. We have to exterminate these vermin.
i have just ordered his book online.
Wise choice.
There's anotther good book on forged hadiths by an Islamic theologian called Israr Ahmed Khan. The book is called Authenticating Hadith: Redefining The Criteria. I posted a link to a book review by the very wise brother Muhammad Amin earlier in the thread. It's very exhaustive:
http://www.mohammedamin.com/Reviews/Authentication-of-Hadith-Redefining-the-Criteria.html
It does a good job of explaining how to spot the fake stuff in the so-called Sahih collections. It's usually the ones that go against Allah's message that There is no compulsion in religion. This verse alone invented freedom of worship, thought, and belief long before the UN Declaration of Human Rights. So all hadiths about violence and oppression are thrown out at once. The Wahabbis claim this verse is only about converting to Islam, but that's their deviant reinterpretation. The ayah says nothing about conversion. It's an absolute prohibition on all forms of religious coercion.
Some scholars are fighting back against the Salafi gang. My favorites are Shabir Ally, Khalid Abu Fadl, Eyad Jamal al-Din, Dhiyaa Musawi, and Atabek Shukurov.
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