Association of Islamic Charitable Projects

[RudeBoi]

I'm not talking about the hararis I'm talking about you saying sheikh ibn taymiyyah was an opstate. Or are you referring to someone else who calls themselves that?

You have mistaken me for that Harari nigga.Im calling the Hararis and this new religon they came up with are gaal

 

[Hafez]

@Young Popeye Get out of here you wasteman. The Salafis follow the Ath'ari aqeedah which is one of the three accepted schools of thought (in aqeedah) by the ahlul Sunnah. Sure, some Salafis are guilty of anthropomorphism but that is only due to their lack of understanding of Athariyya. The true Atharis believe in the attributes of Allah (SWT) but they refrain from discussing the nature and essence of these attributes like the example @RudeBoi used of Malik ibn Anas (RA). I think this fella is upset that the Muslims are refusing to accept the deviant teachings of his fellow compatriots. I am not a Salafi or Wahhabi btw, though I share most of their views. Sure, Wahhabism is a corrupted version of Islamic orthodoxy, it was in the interest of the corrupted rulers to reopen the gates of ijtihaad (in order to legitimize their actions), they could only do this through a new religious movement (Wahhabiyya). That does not mean the Wahhabis are kuffar though, they are slighty misguided.

If we analyse the beliefs and practices of the Wahhabis and compare them to that of al-Ahbash, you would find that the Wahhabis are far closer to authentic Islam than your little cult. Most of the practices that your little cult engage in have no basis in the Qur'an and Sunnah but you have the audacity to make TAKFIR on muslims? Come with evidence to falsify my stance or get out of here you quburi.

@Reign Ibn Taymiyyah has made some dangerous statements in his early years but he changed his views/opinions in his old age, he was not a kafir. This can be observed by reading the latest works that he had written (before he died). The problem is, some retards who don't even know Arabic properly are cherry picking from his early works to justify their actions/views.

 

[Hafez]

IMPORTANT: For everyone who wants to know the correct Islam; it's traditional ahlul sunnah. All ahlul sunnah, including Sufis are on the right path as long as they don't engage in bid'ah (innovations), only prescribed forms of tassawwuf that can be found in the Qur'an and Sunnah. True Islam is what the Prophet (SAW) came with and what his Sahaba (RA) followed; namely the Qur'an and Sunnah. Wahhabis have sown disunity among the Muslims and these people called "al-ahbash" and others like them are no better, they practice and preach a lot of bid'ah (innovations) while further disuniting the ummah. Wahhabis are wrong for rejecting and opposing taqlid (following one of the four schools of thoughts, like Shafi'i, Maliki, etc) and it has been the source of many confusions.

My advice to Muslims
- Adhere to the ways of the ahlul Sunnah.
- Only engage in authentic ibaadah (practices) that the Prophet (SAW) came with. If all your beliefs and practices have their basis in the Qur'an, Sunnah (hadith) and ijmaa (consensus) of the scholars, wallahi you will never go astray.
- We (in Somalia) follow the Shafi'i madhab, The way we were taught to pray and everything by our parents is according the Shafi madhab (which is one of the four accepted schools of thoughts that was followed by great scholars like Imam Nawawi). So study the Shafi madhab.
- When someone tells you something suspicious, tell them to provide evidence; be a critical thinker.


I'm off to Uni macasalaam.

 

[Young Popeye]

@merka I didnt know degenerate trolls like you had an opinion on religion. Harar didnt ban Abdullah al Harari you liar, you have no leaders other then osama bin laden therefore you pretend that wahabis are tolerated in Sufi cities like Harar. Why are you trying to mislead people when i posted video of Addis prayers above. The Ahbash control several countries including Jordan, who's royal family are the rightful Sharifs of the holy cities NOT saudi wahhabi pagans who have hijacked Islamic teachings

@Hafez your desperately attempting to save Al shabab, Ibn taymiyyah never repented you wahhabi tool. Either you make takfir on ibn taymiyyah or your an infidel, its that simple. 18th century scholar Ibn Abidin called wahhabism, the modern day khawarij. Your a wahhabi yet try to distance yourself from the movement, what a clown! The Ottoman caliphate had Saud grandfather executed for his wahhabi beliefs.

16th century Shafite scholar Ibn Hajar al-haytami said "Ibn Taymiyya is a slave which Allah has forsaken and misguided and blinded and deafened and debased. That is the declaration of the imams who have exposed the corruption of his positions and the mendacity of his sayings. Whoever wishes to pursue this must read the words of the mujtahid imam Abu al-Hasan (Taqi al-Din) al-Subki, of his son Taj al-Din Subki, of the Imam al-`Izz ibn Jama`a and others of the Shafi`i, Maliki, and Hanafi shaykhs...In short, his words are not given any importance whatsoever; rather they are thrown aside into every wasteland and rocky ground, and it must be considered that he is a misguided and misguiding innovator (mubtadi` dall mudill) and an ignorant who brought evil (jahilun ghalun) whom Allah treated with His justice, and may He protect us from the likes of his path, doctrine, and actions", This statement was accepted by consensus.

Al Azhar has excluded wahhabis from Islam, instead of lying and pretending that your Taymite Athari nonsense is accepted, why dont you pay attention to what Grand Imam of al-Azhar, Sheikh Ahmad al-Tayeb said: "Ahluls Sunna wal Jama’ah are the Ash’arites or Muturidis (adherents of Abu Mansur al-Maturidi's systematic theology which is also identical to Imam Abu Hasan al-Ash'ari’s school of logical thought). In matters of belief, they are followers of any of the four schools of thought (Hanafi, Shaf’ai, Maliki or Hanbali) and are also the followers of pure Sufism in doctrines, manners and [spiritual] purification". http://www.firstpost.com/world/isla...iating-themselves-from-salafists-2998018.html

 

[RudeBoi]

@merka I didnt know degenerate trolls like you had an opinion on religion. Harar didnt ban Abdullah al Harari you liar, you have no leaders other then osama bin laden therefore you pretend that wahabis are tolerated in Sufi cities like Harar. Why are you trying to mislead people when i posted video of Addis prayers above. The Ahbash control several countries including Jordan, who's royal family are the rightful Sharifs of the holy cities NOT saudi wahhabi pagans who have hijacked Islamic teachings

@Hafez your desperately attempting to save Al shabab, Ibn taymiyyah never repented you wahhabi tool. Either you make takfir on ibn taymiyyah or your an infidel, its that simple. 18th century scholar Ibn Abidin called wahhabism, the modern day khawarij. Your a wahhabi yet try to distance yourself from the movement, what a clown! The Ottoman caliphate had Saud grandfather executed for his wahhabi beliefs.

16th century Shafite scholar Ibn Hajar al-haytami said "Ibn Taymiyya is a slave which Allah has forsaken and misguided and blinded and deafened and debased. That is the declaration of the imams who have exposed the corruption of his positions and the mendacity of his sayings. Whoever wishes to pursue this must read the words of the mujtahid imam Abu al-Hasan (Taqi al-Din) al-Subki, of his son Taj al-Din Subki, of the Imam al-`Izz ibn Jama`a and others of the Shafi`i, Maliki, and Hanafi shaykhs...In short, his words are not given any importance whatsoever; rather they are thrown aside into every wasteland and rocky ground, and it must be considered that he is a misguided and misguiding innovator (mubtadi` dall mudill) and an ignorant who brought evil (jahilun ghalun) whom Allah treated with His justice, and may He protect us from the likes of his path, doctrine, and actions", This statement was accepted by consensus.

Al Azhar has excluded wahhabis from Islam, instead of lying and pretending that your Taymite Athari nonsense is accepted, why dont you pay attention to what Grand Imam of al-Azhar, Sheikh Ahmad al-Tayeb said: "Ahluls Sunna wal Jama’ah are the Ash’arites or Muturidis (adherents of Abu Mansur al-Maturidi's systematic theology which is also identical to Imam Abu Hasan al-Ash'ari’s school of logical thought). In matters of belief, they are followers of any of the four schools of thought (Hanafi, Shaf’ai, Maliki or Hanbali) and are also the followers of pure Sufism in doctrines, manners and [spiritual] purification". http://www.firstpost.com/world/isla...iating-themselves-from-salafists-2998018.html

Nigga Somalis and even the cadcad wants nothing to do with you punk ass new religon.Now go to a Harari forum if one even exists

 

[merka]

I hope that you can understand Arabic.


Don't worry if you don't there's more in english.

Fatwas of prominent scholars against al-Harari and the Ahbash
Many prominent scholars openly denounced al-Harari and his sect. Among them:
Fatwa of Shaykh Ibrahim al-Yaʿqubi against al-Harari
The great Syrian scholar Shaykh Ibrahim al-Yaʿqubi (1924-1985) Mufti of Malikis then Hanafis in the Umawi Mosque in Damascus mentioned in his unpublished record (kunasha) that ʿAbd Allah al-Harari read to him a book during his stay in Damascus, which makes al-Harari one of the students of Sayyid Ibrahim. The latter was at the forefront of the scholars who expelled al￾Harari from Syria in the Sixties and declared him “misguided and misguiding
others” (dall mudill).

Fatwa of Shaykh Muhammad Abu al-Huda al-Yaʿqubi against al-Harari
Shaykh Ibrahim’s son the erudite hadith scholar and daʿiya Shaykh Muhammad Abu al-Huda al-Yaʿqubi said that the scholars of Damascus were unaware of al-Harari’s deviancy because he claimed to teach hadith and tasawwuf and he appeared to refute Nasir al-Albani (although the latter was stronger than him in hadith). But when they realized that al-Harari was a heretical innovator they repudiated him.

Fatwa of Shaykh Muhammad Adib Kallas against al-Harari
Shaykh Muhammad Adib Kallas (1921-2009) one of the great Hanafi authorities in Damascus considered al-Harari a misguided innovator after he heard him say it is obligatory to make takfir of Muʿtazilis, breaching the agreement of Ahl al-Sunnah wal-Jamaʿah that they are innovators, not apostates.

Fatwa of Shaykh ʿAbd al-Hadi Kharsa against al-Ahbash
One of Shaykh Adib Kallas’s foremost students the erudite Hanafi Shaykh
ʿAbd al-Hadi Kharsa al-Azhari declared Habashis to be “deviant, leading others astray, and former Sunnis now lying outside of Ahl al-Sunnah wal￾Jamaʿah” http://abdalhadialkharsa.com/index.php?act=viewOps&id=271.

Fatwa of Shaykh Wahbat al-Zuhayli against al-Ahbash
Dr. Muhammad Wahbat al-Zuhayli of Damascus a specialist of Law, legal principles, and Qur’an commentary strongly warned against al-Harari’s group the Ahbash and declared them to be an alien group that has infiltrated the
Ummah to misguide Muslims and spread fitna with support from a non￾Muslim country. It is on record that their representative in Italy, a certain Massimo Abdul Hadi Palazzi, calls himself “a Zionist who loves Israel and
Israelis.”

Fatwa of Shaykh Muhammad Tawfiq al-Buti against al-Ahbash
After they declared the major scholar of Damascus Dr. Muhammad Saʿid al￾Buti to be an unbeliever, he replied on his website: “They have declared Shaykh Mutawalli Shaʿrawi to be an unbeliever, Dr. Yusuf al-Qaradawi to be an unbeliever, and myself to be an unbeliever. It appears that group thinks that they are the only ones whom Allah loves.” His son Dr. Muhammad Tawfiq al￾Buti declared them deviant in his khutbas in the 1990s and 2000s.

Fatwa of Shaykh Muhammad Muʿtazz al-Subayni against al-Ahbash
The historian and hadith scholar of Damascus Shaykh Muhammad Muʿtazz al￾Subayni was a follower of al-Harari but left him and declared his group to be
fitna-mongers.

Mufti of Egypt Dr. ʿAli Gomaa’s 1999 fatwa againt the Ahbash
In 1999 Shaykh ʿAli Gomaa, who later became the mufti of the Arab Republic
of Egypt, published the following fatwa which was disseminated on the
internet:
<<This sect is affiliated with a person called ʿAbd Allah al-Harari al￾Habashi. It is a sect that has an outward side and an inward side. Its outward side is conformity with what is ostensibly the madhhab of al￾Shafiʿi in fiqh and the madhhab of al-Ashʿari in ʿaqida. Its inward side is the declaration of Muslims to be unbelievers (takfir al-muslimin), the declaration of believers to be depraved sinners (tafsiq al-mu’minin), the propagation of fitnah—division and strife in the Ummah, and acting as paid agents for the enemies of Islam and Muslims…. We have seen them stir up the issue of the direction of qiblah in America in opposition to the findings of modern science and in denial of palpable reality claiming that it was an innovation. At the same time they stirred up the same trouble in Japan.
They stirred up the false problem of whether they can pray behind other
than one of them, food issues, the issue of marriage with Christians and Jews, and others of the issues over which there are long-standing differences of opinion among the great mujtahids and the major imams of the Law. They have declared that intermixing between men and women was licit and that the political leaders of Muslims were unbelievers but that it was licit to co-operate with polytheists, all in a confused jumble that was never said by any madhhab or group of the Muslims before them. They spread the news of the death of their leader then they spread the news that he was still alive. No one knows exactly what kind of collective psychosis those people suffer from, which constantly pushes them to rave and crave notoriety in such a bizarre manner. This has made all Muslims disgusted with their behavior as Habashis are always associated with confusion (fitnah) and division (furqah). Many respectable Islamic institutions have issued warnings against them already; among those, the Council for Islamic Research in al-Azhar (Majmaʿ al-Buhuth al-Islamiyya fil-Azhar), the General Assembly of Scholarly Research, Fatwa, Daʿwah and Education in
Saudi Arabia, and the Fiqh Council of North America.>>

Al-Azhar President Dr. Ahmad ʿUmar Hashim’s 2001 fatwa againt the
Ahbash
In August 2001 the president of the University of al-Azhar in Egypt, Dr. Ahmad ʿUmar Hashim, issued a statement in which he announced that al-Azhar had nothing to do with the Ahbash of Lebanon and he stated that the position of al-Azhar was that “that group [the Ahbash] is unwholesome, untrustworthy, and unislamic in its thinking.”

World renowned scholars in Syria and Egypt, including Al-Azhar has declared your group and leader to be deviants and fitna-mongers.

@Young Popeye you must make taubah and return to ahlsunnah wal jamaah.

 

[merka]

Here are tens of thousands of Ethiopian Muslims who were protesting against the Ethiopian government's imprisonment of Islamic scholars in order to replace them with al ahbash scholars.

http://observers.france24.com/en/20...uslim-council-awoliya-mosque-al-ahbash-anawar

https://www.icit-digital.org/articl...efusing-to-submit-to-al-ahbash-indoctrination

 

[Hafez]

@merka I didnt know degenerate trolls like you had an opinion on religion. Harar didnt ban Abdullah al Harari you liar, you have no leaders other then osama bin laden therefore you pretend that wahabis are tolerated in Sufi cities like Harar. Why are you trying to mislead people when i posted video of Addis prayers above. The Ahbash control several countries including Jordan, who's royal family are the rightful Sharifs of the holy cities NOT saudi wahhabi pagans who have hijacked Islamic teachings

@Hafez your desperately attempting to save Al shabab, Ibn taymiyyah never repented you wahhabi tool. Either you make takfir on ibn taymiyyah or your an infidel, its that simple. 18th century scholar Ibn Abidin called wahhabism, the modern day khawarij. Your a wahhabi yet try to distance yourself from the movement, what a clown! The Ottoman caliphate had Saud grandfather executed for his wahhabi beliefs.

16th century Shafite scholar Ibn Hajar al-haytami said "Ibn Taymiyya is a slave which Allah has forsaken and misguided and blinded and deafened and debased. That is the declaration of the imams who have exposed the corruption of his positions and the mendacity of his sayings. Whoever wishes to pursue this must read the words of the mujtahid imam Abu al-Hasan (Taqi al-Din) al-Subki, of his son Taj al-Din Subki, of the Imam al-`Izz ibn Jama`a and others of the Shafi`i, Maliki, and Hanafi shaykhs...In short, his words are not given any importance whatsoever; rather they are thrown aside into every wasteland and rocky ground, and it must be considered that he is a misguided and misguiding innovator (mubtadi` dall mudill) and an ignorant who brought evil (jahilun ghalun) whom Allah treated with His justice, and may He protect us from the likes of his path, doctrine, and actions", This statement was accepted by consensus.

Al Azhar has excluded wahhabis from Islam, instead of lying and pretending that your Taymite Athari nonsense is accepted, why dont you pay attention to what Grand Imam of al-Azhar, Sheikh Ahmad al-Tayeb said: "Ahluls Sunna wal Jama’ah are the Ash’arites or Muturidis (adherents of Abu Mansur al-Maturidi's systematic theology which is also identical to Imam Abu Hasan al-Ash'ari’s school of logical thought). In matters of belief, they are followers of any of the four schools of thought (Hanafi, Shaf’ai, Maliki or Hanbali) and are also the followers of pure Sufism in doctrines, manners and [spiritual] purification". http://www.firstpost.com/world/isla...iating-themselves-from-salafists-2998018.html

I agree that the Wahhabis are the modern day khawaarij (in their political motives) for overthrowing the Ottoman Empire which was the legitimate Khilafah of the Muslims and it was haraam to revolt against them since there wasn't open kufr on part of the Ottoman Sultans. Similar to the way the khawaarij at the time of Ali (RA)’s rule tried overthrowing him. When did I deny this? I clearly said to you, in order to do this, they've invented Wahhabiyya, reopened doors of ijtihaad, etc. to legitimise their actions and to make takfir of the Ottomans on groundless things like innovations. Would I describe them in this manner if I was from them? Rather, I'm a traditional Sunni (on the path of the four Imams). If I was Wahhabi, I wouldn't be following the Shafi'i madhab, nor would a Wahhabi consider Tasawwuf legitimate (this just shows you don't know what you're talking about). I regress…

Athariyya is not a legitimate school of thought you say? Did you know there’s ijmaa (among ALL Sunni scholars, from all schools of thoughts) on its legitimacy? All the scholars, past and present have never said what you’re saying now. What a very bold statement from an ignoramus such as yourself. Just because someone is a “Grand-Mufti” such as Ahmed al-Tayeb, it doesn’t give his words authority over the more knowledgeable and senior ulama past and present. Being a “Grand-Mufti” is not really as meaningful as it once was (they are even appointed by the government). Is quoting a “moderate scholar” the best you can do? No Sunni scholar has ever criticised the Athari school or doubted it’s legitimacy (if an ignoramus like you claims otherwise, present one evidence). Now look, Ibn Taymiyyah has invented concepts in the Athari school of thought that was previously alien to it and Ibn Hajr al-Asqalani reproached him for this but he didn’t declare him a kafir (something you have the audacity to do). The true Atharis are the people of narrations and only narrations (ahl al-hadith), a movement began by Ahmed Ibn Hanbal (RH) himself and he was one of the four Imams.

Why do you try to intertwine Ibn Taymiyyah and Mohammad ibn Abdul-Wahhab? They are two different people, the latter being more corrupt. I agree that Muhammad ibn Abdulwahhab is the Najdi whom the Prophet (SAW) prophesied about in the Hadith regarding the horn of Satan appearing from Najd. Notice all of the scholars that you’ve quoted regarding Ibn Taymiyyah have NOT declared him a kafir like you have. If they thought of him as a kafir, they would have openly made takfir of him so as to raise awareness in the ummah.

Now let’s get back to Wahhabis being khawaarij… This is true in the political sense, while Ibadis in Oman are khawaarij in terms of their beliefs too. Are the khawaarij Muslims though? Let’s see what the most knowledgeable and senior scholars of all times have said:

An-Nawawi (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

The view of ash-Shaafa‘i and the majority of his fellow scholars is that the Khawaarij are not to be described as disbelievers; this also applies to the Qadariyyah and the majority of the Mu‘tazilah and other groups that follow whims and desires.

Ali ibn Abi Taalib (may Allah be pleased with him) was asked about them (the khawaarij): Are they disbelievers? He said: They fled from disbelief, but they fell into the innovation of labelling others as disbelievers; we will not fall into the innovation of labelling others as disbelievers and thus label them as such.

NOW LET’S GET TO THE BEST PART; are al-ahbash Muslims? These are their beliefs:

1- They change the meaning of Allah's attributes based on the desire. But Al-Shafi as all Ahlu-sunnah beliefs Allah's attributes as what Allah (S.W.T) mentions them in His book and in the Sunnah of His Messengers without any meaning's changing, exchanging, or misconstruction. Look what Al-Habashi and his followers said about ' Al-Istiwa' " Al-rahman ala al'arsh istawa" translation " The most Beneficent (Allah) Istawa (rose over) the mighty Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty) -Taha verse 5- , what they - Ahbash- said about the meaning of this word 'Istawa' they said it means take possession of the Throne, that means there was a god before Allah , then Allah possessed the throne from that first god, which no Muslim will believe or accept that , Ta-a'la-Allah Oluwan Kabera. The meaning of Istawa every Muslim knows the meaning by the Fitrah, it means He (S.W.T) rose over, that set no more details such as how, because Allah (S.W.T) tells us in the Quran about his attributes something fit with human's mind, we believe them as is, according Imam Malik, when someone ask him about Al-Istiwa he - may Allah have mercy on him- Al-Istiwa's meaning is known, how is unknown, believe it is obligation, and to ask about is Bed'ah, then he asked this man to go because he is Mubtad'a.


2- Their Shikh said that, The Quran's word was established by Gabriel (Alih Asslam), and Quran is not Allah's speech -look Izhar Al-Iqedah Al-Sunnyah P. 59-. Of course this idea is not new idea he came up with it, he just follows Al-Thalal's Imams. This idea is not something simple we can forget it. Just think about that, if we said Al-Quran is not Allah's speech that means it somebody's else speech, that means it could have some mistake. If we look at the history, where this idea come from, and why they came up with this idea, we will notice that, they want to reject the Quran, but they could not find any way to prove that, It is deficient or incomplete, then they came up with this idea. When the Muslims believe that, it is not Allah's speech then it could be incomplete or it is not perfect. Then we can change some of it while it is not perfect.


3- He - Al-Habashi - came up with some strange things, he said Allah is has ability on most of things - look Izhar Al-Iqedah Al-Sunnyah P. 59 -. Also, he asked the people this question, Is Allah able on him self or not?. Do you think Imam Al-Shafi believes these things or did he - may Allah have mercy on him- ask such question like what Al-Habashi did.


4- He -Al-Habashi- encourage people to go to the graves and appeal for aid from dead, also he allows to seek the protection from other than Allah (look Al-Daleel Al-Qaweem P.173, Bwghyat Al-Talib P.8, Sareeh Al-Bayan P.57-62). Also, he said Al-Awleya come from their graves to do people's needs, then they go back to their graves ! (look Khalid Kanan's tape /b/70). Also, he ask people to have Tabaruk by stone ( look Sareh Al-Byan P. 58, Ithhar Al-Aqedah Al-Sunnyah P.244). Do you think Al-Shafi does or believe these garbage.


5- He is Jabri, he said Allah help the Kuffars on their Kufer, if Allah did not help them they will not be Kuffar ( look Al-Nahj Al-Saleem P. 67).


6- He is Murje, he said Iman is saying only without deeds, i.e. , Iman is belief only , when you believe it is enough for you to enter Al-Jannah you do have to do any practice, he make Abu Baker and Abu Jahel is same, because both believe Allah. Anyone believe Allah is Mu'min either he pray or not, he does Islam's Pillars or not. (look Al-Daleel Al-Qaweem P.7, Beghyat Al-Taleb P.51).


7- He does not care about the Judgment by Islam or other which is against Islam, and he describe the people who judge by human's law (against Islam) and do not like to judge by Islam, he describe them as Muslim and Mu'min, also he allows helping them (look tape No. 318/1 side A). Also, he said any one who said at least one time in his life La Elah Ela Allah (No God but Allah) he is Muslim and Mu'min even if he does not judge the Allah's Share'ah in his life, does not do any of Allah's commands, and does not leave Allah's prohibited. (look Al-Daleel Al-Qaweem P.9-10, Beghyat Al-Taleb P. 51). He- Al-Habashi- said that Syed Qutub is Kafer, because he prohibit Judges to judge between people using the human's law (against Islam).


8- He tries to get Shi'ah's agree by talking a lot about the Fitans which happened between companions, and he insult Mua'wyah (R.A.A) a lot and he - Al-Habashi - made him -Mua'wyah - of Fire's people, also he mention a lot of Shia'h's stories about Mua'wyah (R.A.A).


9- He - Al-Habashi - believe that, Allah created the universe and sent the Messengers without any wisdom, because if you said that, that means you put some reasons for that, and if you put some reasons that means you put some partner with Allah ! - Strange !! -


10- He -Al-Habashi- allows Al-Riba (the interest).


11- He allows to pray with dirty - Najasah - ( look Beghyat Al-Taleb P. 99-100).


12- He allows to play gambling with Kuffar, and allows to steal your neighbors if they are non Muslim. (look Sareeh Al-Bayan P. 133)


13- He insult the scholars beginning with the companions especially Mua'wyah (R.A.A) ( look Ethhar Al-Aqeedah AlSunnyah P. 182). look to some of his tape like (tape No. 13/A/94) to see what he said about Shihk Al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah, also, look at (Al-Magalat Al-Sunnyah P. 15, 24, 26, 57, 62, 75). Look what he said about Imam Al-Thahabi, he said he is wicked, Imam Muhammad bin AbdulWahhab murder and Kafer (look at their Manar Al-Huda Magazine Issue 3 P.34). Shikh Syed Sabiq is Majosi Kafir (tape No. 1/A/181). Syed Qutub is one of Al-Khawarij's heads, he is Kafir, and he is journal's communist (look Al-Nahj Al-Sawi fi Al-Rad ala Syed Qutub Wa Tabi'eh Fiysal Muwlawi P. 3)


In front of that, we find Al-Habashi is defending the bad people like Ibn Arabi which all his book is witness on his Kufir because he said something no one said it toward Allah even Jews and Christians.

If you believe in the aforementioned beliefs that are held by the al-ahbash, I hereby declare you a kafir! Hence why I said the Wahhabis, though being modern khaarijis are better than you; because they’ve not fallen into kufr like the al-ahbash have. I ask you by Allah, are the above believes of the al-ahbash according to the Sunnah? It’s true that authentic Sufism (based on Qur’an and Sunnah) is from Islam, but your little cult are far removed from Islam.

We can all witness the weakness of your arguments and the lack of evidence on your part. Now refute me with evidence if you can. The truthfulness of my statements are evident for all to see and research.

P.S. Reply during the day time so we can have an open debate. I don't know where you live, but I was sleeping by the time you responded.

 

[Young Popeye]

@merka Egypt banned ibn taymmiyyah's books last year due to pressure from al azhar http://www.doamuslims.org/?p=3861

@Hafez I discussed sufi wahhabis such as yourself on my other thread. You’re a neo sufi, that supports wahhabism, most likely supporting the muslim brotherhood who are infidels. You idiot I didn’t mention al-asqalani, read it again IBN HAJAR AL HAYTAMI , and yes he did call Ibn Taymiyyah an infidel. Ibn Hajar al-Hatytami was the leading Shafi'I scholar of the late ottoman period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Hajar_al-Haytami if you dont know him then i dont think your a shafi'i your lying to me. Your also using the term "moderate"in a demeaning way because you know you’re an extremist. full kufr belief of ibn taymiyyah explained by Ibn Hajar al-HAYTAMI http://www.sunnah.org/aqida/anthro/anthro5.htm First you admit that you have no idea what your talking about, then ill get to your ahbash accusations

 

[Hafez]

@merka Egypt banned ibn taymmiyyah's books last year due to pressure from al azhar http://www.doamuslims.org/?p=3861

@Hafez I discussed sufi wahhabis such as yourself on my other thread. You’re a neo sufi, that supports wahhabism, most likely supporting the muslim brotherhood who are infidels. You idiot I didn’t mention al-asqalani, read it again IBN HAJAR AL HAYTAMI , and yes he did call Ibn Taymiyyah an infidel. Ibn Hajar al-Hatytami was the leading Shafi'I scholar of the late ottoman period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Hajar_al-Haytami if you dont know him then i dont think your a shafi'i your lying to me. Your also using the term "moderate"in a demeaning way because you know you’re an extremist. full kufr belief of ibn taymiyyah explained by Ibn Hajar al-HAYTAMI http://www.sunnah.org/aqida/anthro/anthro5.htm First you admit that you have no idea what your talking about, then ill get to your ahbash accusations

It was an error, I'm currently reading the works of Ibn Hajr al-asqalani and I've accidentally mentioned his name instead of ibn Hajr Al-Haythami. In psychology, this is called the "priming effect", it happens. Provide evidence that he declared him a kafir? You can't can you? I don't support Wahhabism. I adhere fully to the way of the traditional Sunnis. The only kafir sect that's being discussed in this thread is al-ahbash. I've read the works of these scholars unlike you, not once did they declare Ibn Taymiyyah to be a kafir. Even on the link you've provided, Ibn Hajr al-Haythami does not declare in Taymiyyah a kafir.

 

[Young Popeye]

It was an error, I'm currently reading the works of Ibn Hajr al-asqalani and I've accidentally mentioned his name instead of ibn Hajr Al-Haythami. In psychology, this is called the "priming effect", it happens. Provide evidence that he declared him a kafir? You can't can you? I don't support Wahhabism. I adhere fully to the way of the traditional Sunnis. The only kafir sect that's being discussed in this thread is al-ahbash.

Khawarij are infidels

When `Ali killed the Khawarij, someone said: "Praise be to Allah Who has brought them down and relieved us from them." Ali replied: "Verily, by the One in Whose hand is my soul, some of them are still in the loins of men and they have not been born yet, and the last of them will fight on the side of the Antichrist."

"At the end of time. There will appear some people among you who are young in age, immature and senseless; they will use the best of the speech of the people in their claims, and they will leave Islam just as the arrows pierces the body of the game and then abandons it. Their faith will not go past their throats, so wherever you see them, kill them; for their killing will be recompensed and rewarded on the Day of Judgement". Sahih Bukhari

Now you can sit here and say that the Khawarij are muslims if you want, this is why ISIS and Al shabab has free reign because you don’t know what defines a muslim yet you consider yourself a traditionalist. One who accepts a scholar that rejected ahlulsunna and thus deemed himself a kafir is not following ahlulsunna. It doesnt matter if your against wahhabism if you defend their scholars like ibn taymiyyah then your one of them. When ISIS burned the jordanian pilot alive, they used Ibn Taymiyyah's fatwa for their defence and when Boko Haram leader opened a masjid he named it Ibn taymiyyah.

The Ahbash slander posted by Rudboi is false, now we are talking about Ibn taymiyyah but AICP are around and if you dont believe me, go and contact them on their website. Im attacking Ibn taymiyyah who lived during Mongolian rule, and im presenting to you Sunni scholar opinion on him, which has been brushed aside by terrorist wahhabis.

Comparing Allah to a moon is kufr, if you cant recognize that then you’re a kafir yourself. Violating Scholarly consensus made Ibn Taymiyyah an infidel. Ibn Hajar has listed it in his refutation. i have had debates with many people on this subject and everyone agreed he was called a kafir, its just you that refuses to understand that. Maybe an academic review of Ibn Hajar's fatwa might clear things up for you.

Page 77 clearly says Ibn Hajar cleared Ibn Hanbal of Anthromorpohism but declared Ibn taymiyyah and his student heretics
https://books.google.ca/books?id=htx8BAAAQBAJ&pg=PA77&dq=ibn+hajar+al+haytami+heretic+ibn+taymiyyah&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi59vjgq6DPAhUL7oMKHWk8C18Q6AEIITAB#v=onepage&q=ibn hajar al haytami heretic ibn taymiyyah&f=false

Now Ahbash has had issues with some Sufi leaders such as Nazim of the Naqshabandi order who compared the queen of England to Allah which is kufr
You can play the "I didn’t hear it game all you want". I told you, you can be a sufi and practice tawassul and still be following wahhabism, there's many Wahhabi taymite sufi organizations such as Yusuf Hamza followers, deobandi or muslim brotherhood. Here is a full review on those who considered Ibn taymiyyah an infidel http://www.correctislamicfaith.com/ibntaymiyyasbeliefs.htm (NOT AHBASH WEBSITE) im not saying Ahbash is the only Sunni movement out there. There's many worldwide such as South Asia's Barelvi movement with 200 million followers or the largest independent Islamic organization in the world, the Nahdlatul Ulama based in Indonesia.

or this somali based group fighting al shabab

 

[Hafez]

"At the end of time. There will appear some people among you who are young in age, immature and senseless; they will use the best of the speech of the people in their claims, and they will leave Islam just as the arrows pierces the body of the game and then abandons it. Their faith will not go past their throats, so wherever you see them, kill them; for their killing will be recompensed and rewarded on the Day of Judgement". Sahih Bukhari

These are regarding people who display open kufr. The hadd cannot be carried out on one who does not display open kufr. Now if the ahlul Sunnah scholars considered Mu'tazilites Muslims, what about khawaarij, huh?

Now you can sit here and say that the Khawarij are muslims if you want, this is why ISIS and Al shabab has free reign because you don’t know what defines a muslim yet you consider yourself a traditionalist. One who accepts a scholar that rejected ahlulsunna and thus deemed himself a kafir is not following ahlulsunna. It doesnt matter if your against wahhabism if you defend their scholars like ibn taymiyyah then your one of them. When ISIS burned the jordanian pilot alive, they used Ibn Taymiyyah's fatwa for their defence and when Boko Haram leader opened a masjid he named it Ibn taymiyyah.

Yes, the khawaarij are considered Muslims. This was the stance of the Sahabi Ali ibn Abi Talib (RA) himself; this was also the stance of Imam As-Shafi'i (yet you al-ahbash claim to follow Imam Shafi'i). So if the authorities on Islamic law have not declared khawaarij kuffar, who gave you the right to do so? WHO ARE YOU? You're a nobody, an ignoramus.

Im attacking Ibn taymiyyah who lived during Mongolian rule, and im presenting to you Sunni scholar opinion on him, which has been brushed aside from terrorist wahhabis.

Ibn Taymiyyah was not declared a kafir by ANY scholar of ahlul Sunnah, yet you're here to declare him as such?

Comparing Allah to a moon is kufr, if you cant recognize that then you’re a kafir yourself. Violating Scholarly consensus made Ibn Taymiyyah an infidel. Ibn Hajar has listed it in his refutation. i have had debates with many people on this subject and everyone agreed he was called a kafir, its just you that refuses to understand that. Maybe an academic review of Ibn Hajar's fatwa might clear things up for you.

This is a blatant lie against Ibn Taymiyyah and he has done no such thing. Wallahi you're a bold-faced lier and you've failed to provide evidence that ANY scholar made takfir of Ibn Taymiyyah. YOU accuse him of tajsim but what did Ibn Hajar say in his defence?! Read:

Ibn Hajar said: " ... those of his stances that were rejected from him were not said by him due to mere whims and desires and neither did he obstinately and deliberately persist in them after the evidence was established against him. Here are his works overflowing with refutations of those who held to tajsim yet despite this he is a man who makes mistakes and is also correct. So that which he is correct in - and that is the majority - is to benefited from and Allah's Mercy should be sought for him due to it, and that which he is incorrect in should not be blindly followed. Indeed he is excused for his mistakes because he is one of the Imams of his time and it has been witnessed that he fulfilled the conditions of ijtihad.” He fulfilled the conditions of ijtihad!!! And you call him a kafir?!

Page 77 clearly says Ibn Hajar cleared Ibn Hanbal of Anthromorpohism but declared Ibn taymiyyah and his student heretics

The only person that (remotely) accused Ibn Taymiyyah of ahtormorphism was Ibn Hajr al-Haythami and the basis of that may be the works of ibn Battuta and a statement by Ibn al-Qayyim that he has misunderstood. Ibn Taymiyyah was far removed from anthropomorphism.

Dr. Sa'id Ramadhan al-Buti who says, "And we are amazed when we see the extremists declaring Ibn Taymiyyah,may Allah have mercy upon him, of being an unbeliever. And also at them saying that he was one who held Allah to be a body (mujassid), and I have studied long and hard as to where I could find a statement or a word from Ibn Taymiyyah that he wrote or said which would indicate his holding Allah to be a body as was quoted from him by As-Subki and others [This is a clear indication from Al-Buti of the injustice done against Ibn Taymiyyah by the likes of As-Subki and others]

What positive things have scholars said about Ibn Taymiyyah? Read:

Ibn Hajar al-`Asqalani said that calling Ibn Taymiyyah "Sheikh ul-Islam, will continue tomorrow just as it was yesterday"

Muhammad ibn 'Abdul-Barr as-Subki said, "By Allah no one hates Ibn Taymiyyah except for an ignoramus or the possessor of desires which have diverted him from the truth after he has come to know it." ['Radd al-Wafir' (p. 95) of Ibn Nasir ad-Din]

al-Haafiz Jalaal al-Deen al-Suyooti (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Ibn Taymiyah, the Shaykh, the imam, the ‘allaamah (great scholar), the hafiz, the critic, the faqeeh, the mujtahid, the brilliant mufassir, the Shaykh of Islam, the leader of ascetics, the unrivalled in our time, Taqiy al-Deen Abu’l-Abbaas Ahmad al-Mufti Shihaab al-Deen ‘Abd al-Haleem, the son of the imam and mujtahid Shaykh al-Islam Majd al-Deen ‘Abd al-Salaam ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Abi’l-Qaasim al-Haraani.

Imam al-Dhahabi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said, listing his Shaykhs: He is our Shaykh, the Shaykh of Islam, unrivalled in our time in terms of knowledge, courage, intelligence, spiritual enlightenment, generosity, sincerity towards the ummah, enjoining what is good and forbidding what is evil, and learning hadeeth – he put a great deal of effort into seeking it and writing it down, and he examined the different categories of narrators and acquired knowledge that no one else acquired.

al-Haafiz ‘Imaad al-Deen al-Waasiti (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: By Allaah, there was never seen under the canopy of heaven anyone like your Shaykh Ibn Taymiyah in knowledge, righteous deeds, attitude, manner, adherence to the Sunnah, generosity, forbearance and carrying out duties to Allaah when His sacred limits were transgressed; he was the most sincere of people, the most sound in knowledge, the most effective, the most serious in supporting the truth, the most generous, the most perfect in following the Sunnah of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). We have never seen anyone in our own time who demonstrates the example of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his Sunnahs in word and deed like this man; a sound heart will bear witness that this is following the Sunnah in the true sense of the word.

The Ahbash slander posted by Rudboi is false, now we are talking about Ibn taymiyyah but AICP are around and if you dont believe me, go and contact them on their website

Wallahi you're clearly lying again. For the statements of kufr, innovation and heretical beliefs are to be found in the works of your "scholars". You people are not ahlul Sunnah, in fact, al-ahbash are far removed from Islam.

What did the Prophet (SAW) say about bid’ah (innovation)?

in the hadeeth narrated by 'Aa'ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her), who said: "The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: 'Whoever innovates something in this matter of ours that is not a part of it will have it rejected.'" (Reported by al-Bukhaari, Fath al-Baari, no. 2697). How can anybody then say that bid'ah is acceptable and it is permitted to follow it?

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to say, when beginning a khutbah (sermon): "… The best of speech is the Book of Allaah and the best of guidance is the guidance of Muhammad. The worst of things are those which are newly-invented, and every innovation is a going astray…" (reported by Muslim, no. 867)

The word bid’ah has it’s root words in ba da 3a which means to start/invent. We can see that the Prophet (SAW) did not use the definite article “al” so clearly the term bid’ah is referring to EVERY newly invented matter. Some mubtadi’3een have invented a concept called bid’ah hasanah, using the statement of Umar (RA) out of context (there’s evidence for this). Some of what may appear to be bid’ah such as the mawlid have been accepted by many scholars so long as they include actions that are not contrary to that which the Prophet (SAW) prescribed or approved of (such as poetry and the likes).

Now what did the early scholars, (taba) taabi’een and some of the most knowledgeable people to work on the earth say about bid’ah (innovations)?

Al-Layth bin Sa`d (r.h) said: “If I saw a person of desires (i.e. innovations) walking upon the water I would not accept from him.” So Imaam as-Shaafi`ee then said: “He (al-Layth) has fallen short. If I saw him walking in the air I would not accept from him.” [as-Suyooti in al-Amr bil 'Ittibaa wan-Nahee anil Ibtidaa`] It’s strange that the al-ahbash claim to follow Ash-Shafi’I (RH).

Imâm Al-Shâfi’î said: Whenever any people of desires (heretics) came to Mâlik he would say to them, “As for me, I am upon clarity as regards my religion. As for you, you are a doubter, go and argue with another doubter like yourself.”

Sufyan ath-Thawree (r.h) also said "Whoever listens to an innovator has left the protection of Allaah and is entrusted with the innovation.”

Ibraaheem bin Maysarah said: “Whoever honours an innovator has aided in the destruction of Islaam.” [al-Laalikaa'ee (1/139)]

Imaam Maalik (r.h) said: “How evil are the people of innovation, we do not give them salaam.”


Al-Fudayl Ibn ‘Iyaad (d.187H) said, “If a man comes to a person to consult him and he directs him to an innovator, then he has made a deception of Islaam. Beware of going to a person of innovation for they divert (people) from the truth.”

'Umar ibn 'Abd Allah-'Azeez (r.h) said, "There is no excuse for anyone, after the Sunnah, to be misguided upon error which he thought was guidance."

I can provide for you many more evidence regarding the falsehood of al-ahbash. I am quoting to you the Prophet (SAW) and the senior-most scholars of Islam, are you blinded by your desires? It’s very clear that we (Muslims on this forum) do not follow the innovations that you follow. We follow the guidance of the Prophet (SAW). We do not support any form of corrupt/fitna.

Ali ibn Abi Taalib (may Allah be pleased with him) said “we will not fall into the innovation of labelling others (meaning khawaarij and the likes) as disbelievers and thus label them as such”. Yet here you are making takfir of Ibn Taymiyyah, something even the senior-most scholars of Islam haven’t done?


What have modern senior scholars of Islam said about Ibn Taymiyyah? Watch al-Bouti (who was a Sufi btw) refute the claims that were made against Ibn Taymiyyah:

Dr. Sa'id Ramadhan al-Buti who says, "And we are amazed when we see the extremists declaring Ibn Taymiyyah,may Allah have mercy upon him, of being an unbeliever. And also at them saying that he was one who held Allah to be a body (mujassid), and I have studied long and hard as to where I could find a statement or a word from Ibn Taymiyyah that he wrote or said which would indicate his holding Allah to be a body as was quoted from him by As-Subki and others [This is a clear indication from Al-Buti of the injustice done against Ibn Taymiyyah by the likes of As-Subki and others]

If you’re questioning me being a legitimate Sunni Shafi’i then I will test you in Shafi’I jurisprudence and prove to you that I have superior knowledge of this madhab than you and most of your folk. You will know what it means to be truly debased!

Get out of here with your new kafir cult! The only cult proven to be kafir on this thread are the al-ahbash! You’re worse than the khawaarij.

 

[merka]

I told you, you can be a sufi and practice tawassul and still be following wahhabism,

And the donkey of the day goes to...

 

[Hafez]

@Young Popeye enlighten me you dog: how am I a Wahhabi? In what way?

And the donkey of the day goes to...

LOOOOOOOL! Wallahi he really has no idea what he's talking about.

 

[Young Popeye]

@Hafez I wouldn’t quote Ramadan al-buti, this is the same so called scholar who allowed suicide bombings. Suicide is forbidden in Islam and coincidentally al-buti was killed with his own fatwa. Here is the full refutation of Ibn taymiyyah by AICP http://www.aicp.org/index.php/islam...-al-maqalat-us-sunniyyah-the-sunniyy-articles

‘Hazrat Anas Bin Malik (RU) narrates that in Medina, there lived a very pious youngster. One day we made reference about this youngster to the Prophet (SAWS). In spite of the Sahaba describing the youngster's features and character to the Prophet (SAWS), the Prophet (SAWS) did not recognize the youngster made mention of. However, a few days later, whilst we were in the company of the Prophet (SAWS), the young man passed that way. On seeing the young man, the Prophet (SAWS) exclaimed: 'I see the scabs of Shaitaan imprinted on his face. The youngster then approached the Prophet (SAWS) and made salutation. The Prophet (SAWS) then said to him. 'Is it not true that right now you are thinking that there is no one better than yourself here?. 'The youngster then replied. 'Yes, these thoughts did pass my mind. 'He then walked away into the Masjid. The Prophet (SAWS) then inquired as to who will kill this person. Hazrat Abu Bakr (RU) volunteered to do so and entered the Masjid and saw the person he was deeply engrossed in performing Salaat and he remembered a Hadith of the Prophet (SAWS) which prohibited one from killing a person who is performing his Salah and returned to the Prophet (SAWS).

The Prophet (SAWS) again inquired as to who will kill the youngster, this time Hazrat Umar (RU) volunteered to kill him and entered the Masjid and found the youngster performing his Sajda and with the same thoughts as Hazrat Abu Bakr (RU), Hazrat Umar (RU) returned to the Prophet (SAWS).

For the third time the Prophet (SAWS) again inquired who will kill the youngster, this time Hazrat Ali (RU) volunteered to do so, the Prophet (SAWS) said, 'You will surely kill him, if you find him.'

When Hazrat Ali entered the Masjid, he was surprised to see that the youngster was no longer in the Masjid and he too like the others returned to the Prophet (SAWS). The Prophet (SAWS) said: 'If you had only killed him then all the Fitna in my Ummah till Day of Qiyamah would have been wiped out and no two persons in my Ummah would have fought between themselves.’ (Ibreez , p. 277) Author- Allama Shah Abdul Aziz Dabbaag.

Your onslaught on bidah proves you’re a wahhabi, traditional muslim have declared 2 types of bidah, the good and bad. Mawlid and Dihkr are good bidah. Its amusing that you are happy to make takfir on me but terrorists and their shaykh, you will support to the end lol I belive you’re the young khawarij mentioned above as you claim to know more then "me and my folk"

Imam Shafi: “innovations includes two types. First type of innovation includes such acts that are against Quran and Hadith or actions of companions (of Prophet Muhammad) or the consensus and agreement of the Muslim community. These kind of innovations falls in the category of “biddah e Zalala”(bad innovations). And second type of innovation includes such acts that are done for goodness, but those acts should not be against any order of shariat. Those kind of innovations fall in the category of ”biddah ghair mazmomah” (good innovations). That’s why on the taravee in Ramadan, Hazrat Umar rz said “how good is this innovation” means this is something that was not done before and if it was done before then it would not be bad thing”

 

[Hafez]

Here is the full refutation of Ibn taymiyyah by AICP http://www.aicp.org/index.php/islam...-al-maqalat-us-sunniyyah-the-sunniyy-articles

I've countered this many times. Be honest bro, are you retarded? Not once was he declared a kafir by those scholars. In fact, these same scholars have praised his good works, religious commitment, etc. the biggest refutation of the tajsim you accuse him of (although he may have expressed beliefs that can fall into tajsim in his early years, it has written a book in refutation of it in his later years) is the fact that he has written works in refutation of it himself.

Ibn Hajar said:
" ... those of his stances that were rejected from him were not said by him due to mere whims and desires and neither did he obstinately and deliberately persist in them after the evidence was established against him. Here are his works overflowing with refutations of those who held to tajsim yet despite this he is a man who makes mistakes and is also correct. So that which he is correct in - and that is the majority - is to benefited from and Allah's Mercy should be sought for him due to it, and that which he is incorrect in should not be blindly followed. Indeed he is excused for his mistakes because he is one of the Imams of his time and it has been witnessed that he fulfilled the conditions of ijtihad.

‘Hazrat Anas Bin Malik (RU) narrates that in Medina, there lived a very pious youngster. One day we made reference about this youngster to the Prophet (SAWS). In spite of the Sahaba describing the youngster's features and character to the Prophet (SAWS), the Prophet (SAWS) did not recognize the youngster made mention of. However, a few days later, whilst we were in the company of the Prophet (SAWS), the young man passed that way. On seeing the young man, the Prophet (SAWS) exclaimed: 'I see the scabs of Shaitaan imprinted on his face. The youngster then approached the Prophet (SAWS) and made salutation. The Prophet (SAWS) then said to him. 'Is it not true that right now you are thinking that there is no one better than yourself here?. 'The youngster then replied. 'Yes, these thoughts did pass my mind. 'He then walked away into the Masjid. The Prophet (SAWS) then inquired as to who will kill this person. Hazrat Abu Bakr (RU) volunteered to do so and entered the Masjid and saw the person he was deeply engrossed in performing Salaat and he remembered a Hadith of the Prophet (SAWS) which prohibited one from killing a person who is performing his Salah and returned to the Prophet (SAWS).

The Prophet (SAWS) again inquired as to who will kill the youngster, this time Hazrat Umar (RU) volunteered to kill him and entered the Masjid and found the youngster performing his Sajda and with the same thoughts as Hazrat Abu Bakr (RU), Hazrat Umar (RU) returned to the Prophet (SAWS).

For the third time the Prophet (SAWS) again inquired who will kill the youngster, this time Hazrat Ali (RU) volunteered to do so, the Prophet (SAWS) said, 'You will surely kill him, if you find him.'

When Hazrat Ali entered the Masjid, he was surprised to see that the youngster was no longer in the Masjid and he too like the others returned to the Prophet (SAWS). The Prophet (SAWS) said: 'If you had only killed him then all the Fitna in my Ummah till Day of Qiyamah would have been wiped out and no two persons in my Ummah would have fought between themselves.’ (Ibreez , p. 277) Author- Allama Shah Abdul Aziz Dabbaag.

Of course the Prophet (SAW) can recognize an evil man! Do you compare us to the Prophet (SAW)? You've expressed nothing but your foolishness.

Your onslaught on bidah proves you’re a wahhabi, traditional muslim have declared 2 types of bidah, the good and bad. Mawlid and Dihkr are good bidah. Its amusing that you are happy to make takfir on me but terrorists and their shaykh, you will support to the end lol I belive you’re the young khawarij mentioned above as you claim to know more then "me and my folk"

Imam Shafi: “innovations includes two types. First type of innovation includes such acts that are against Quran and Hadith or actions of companions (of Prophet Muhammad) or the consensus and agreement of the Muslim community. These kind of innovations falls in the category of “biddah e Zalala”(bad innovations). And second type of innovation includes such acts that are done for goodness, but those acts should not be against any order of shariat. Those kind of innovations fall in the category of ”biddah ghair mazmomah” (good innovations). That’s why on the taravee in Ramadan, Hazrat Umar rz said “how good is this innovation” means this is something that was not done before and if it was done before then it would not be bad thing”

Bid'ah was made haraam by the Prophet (SAW), it was spoken against by the Sahaba, Tabi'een, Taba Tabi'een, yet you claim that I'm a Wahhabi for also rejecting bid'ah? There is no such thing as "good bid'ah",

Al-Bayhaqi relates in Manaqib al-Shafi'i (1/469) with his isnad that Imam al-Shafi'i said:

المحدثات من الأمور ضربان: أحدهما ما أحدث مما يخالف كتابا أو سنة أو أثرا أو إجماعا، فهذه البدعة الضلالة، والثانية: ما أحدث من الخير لا خلاف فيه لواحد من هذا، وهذه محدثة غير مذمومة

The newly-invented matters are of two types: The first of them is that which has been introduced from that which opposes [something from] the book, or [something from] the sunnah, or a narration, or [a matter of] consensus. This is the misguided innovation. And the second is that which has been introduced of goodness and there is no opposition to anyone of these things [qur'an, sunnah, athar, ijmaa']. This is the newly-invented matter which is not blameworthy. I.e. it's according to the Qur'an, Sunnah, athar and ijmaa; it's not something that's completely alien to it. Which is why I said if you follow the Qur'an, Sunnah and ijmaa, you'll never go stray. Further narrations from As-Shafi'i to prove this?

Ibn Hajar also mentions it in al-Fath (Maktabah Salafiyyah edition, 13/253):

قال الشافعي "البدعة بدعتان: محمودة ومذمومة، فما وافق السنة فهو محمود وما خالفها فهو مذموم" أخرجه أبو نعيم بمعناه من طريق إبراهيم بن الجنيد عن الشافعي، وجاء عن الشافعي أيضا ما أخرجه البيهقي في مناقبه قال "المحدثات ضربان ما أحدث يخالف كتابا أو سنة أو أثرا أو إجماعا فهذه بدعة الضلال، وما أحدث من الخير لا يخالف شيئا من ذلك فهذه محدثة غير مذمومة

Al-Shafi'i said:Bidah is of two types: praiseworthy and blameworthy. Whatever is in agreement with the Sunnah it is praiseworthy and whatever opposes it is blameworthy.

To explain the above sayings of Imam Shafi'i (RH), Ibn Hajr al-Asqalaani's explanation is sufficient and he says: "whenever the term 'bidah' is used to refer to a praiseworthy matter it is being employed with its broader linguistic meaning". Fath al-Bari (Maktabah Salafiyyah print, 13/278)



وأما " البدع " فهو جمع بدعة وهي كل شيء ليس له مثال تقدم فيشمل لغة ما يحمد ويذم ، ويختص في عرف أهل الشرع بما يذم وإن وردت في المحمود فعلى معناها اللغوي
As for innovations (البدع), it is the plural of innovation (بدعة) and it is everything which does not have any prior example. Linguistically, [the word] encompasses what is both praiseworthy and blameworthy. In the usage of the people of the legislation (i.e. Scholars) it is specifically for what is blameworthy and if it is used in connection to what is praiseworthy, then it is upon its linguistic meaning.

Let me give you a personal example of bid'ah in a linguistic meaning (since you clearly don't know Arabic):

“Jarir bin Abdullah reported that some desert Arabs clad in woolen clothes came to Allah's Messenger. He saw them in sad plight as they had been hard pressed by need. He (the Holy Prophet) exhorted people to give charity, but they showed some reluctance until (signs) of anger could be seen on his face. Then a person from the Ansar came with a purse containing silver. Then came another person and then other persons followed them in succession until signs of happiness could be seen on his (sacred) face. Thereupon Allah's Messenger said: He who introduced some good practice in Islam which was followed after him (by people) he would be assured of reward like one who followed it, without their rewards being diminished in any respect. And he who introduced some evil practice in Islam which had been followed subsequently (by others), he would be required to bear the burden like that of one who followed this (evil practice) without their being diminished in any respect.” [Ref: Muslim, B34, H6466]

By introduced here, the Prophet (SAW) is clearly referring to something that is from Islam already, because the person from the Ansar (in the above hadith) that started giving charity didn't do something that is alien to Islam. Charity is from Islam. It's similar to me starting a trend for everyone to use miswaak, I'll be rewarded for anyone who follows me in following this sunnah.

Now some of the scholars have declared mawlid permissible so long as it includes things that the Prophet (SAW) either endorsed or never rejected while it occured in his presence (like the example of Ibn Hajr's statement that I used, it can't be something that didn't have a prior example). Examples of such practices include poetry, feeding the poor, etc. but no music and the like. If a practice didn't happen in the presence of the Prophet (SAW), and it's a newly invented manner, then logically this falls into bid'ah dhalaalah even if there's no hadith or aayah specifically opposing that practice. When the Prophet (SAW) used the word bid'ah, it was generic, the definite article 'al' wasn't used as a suffix.

That’s why on the taravee in Ramadan, Hazrat Umar rz said “how good is this innovation” means this is something that was not done before and if it was done before then it would not be bad thing”

The people of desires shamelessly use this statement of Umar (RA) out of context, Want to know something? I've memorised all of these ahadith. When Umar (RA) said "this is good bid'ah" he meant he revived something that had already existed similar to the way the Ansari gave in charity when destitute peoples from the tribe of Mudar have appeared. Read carefully:

'Abdur Rahman bin 'Abdul Qari said, "I went out in the company of 'Umar bin Al-Khattab one night in Ramadan to the mosque and found the people praying in different groups. A man praying alone or a man praying with a little group behind him. So, 'Umar said, 'In my opinion I would better collect these (people) under the leadership of one Qari (Reciter) (i.e. let them pray in congregation!)'. So, he made up his mind to congregate them behind Ubai bin Ka'b. Then on another night I went again in his company and the people were praying behind their reciter. On that, 'Umar remarked, 'What an excellent Bid'a (i.e. innovation in religion) this is; but the prayer which they do not perform, but sleep at its time is better than the one they are offering.' He meant the prayer in the last part of the night. (In those days) people used to pray in the early part of the night." (Bukhari)

Want proof that Umar (RA) didn't mean bid'ah in the sense that it's a completely newly invented matter?

al-Bukhaari (1129) and Muslim (761) narrated from ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) prayed one night in the mosque, and the people followed him in prayer. Then he prayed the next night, and many people came. Then they gathered on the third or fourth night, and the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not come out to them. The next morning he said: “I saw what you did, and nothing kept me from coming out to you except the fact that I feared that it would be made obligatory for you.” And that was in Ramadaan. Basically the Prophet (SAW) has done taraweeh in his lifetime but he didn't want this practice to be obligatory on his followers, so he stopped praying it in congregation. Logically, Umar (RA) could revive this practice because since the Prophet (SAW) passed away, this act cannot become obligatory and it would benefit those who attend the masjid.

If you don't see that you're on the path of falsehood by now, then there's not much I can do for you. I give up on you, you're a very thick man. I'm out of here.

 

[Young Popeye]

@Hafez This is why I called you a Wahhabi, you support Ibn Taymiyyah and strongly against all types of innovation. If you reject the consensus by the Ummah your an infidel. This is the classic case of Wahhabi belief. When you make something thats allowed forbidden then your in trouble. You do not follow the main jama of muslims, who have permitted good bidah. This thread is for those who are not WAHHABI and want to learn proper Islamic belief. Even Yusuf Hamza, which I dont support says there's types of innovation.

 

[Hafez]

@Hafez This is why I called you a Wahhabi, you support Ibn Taymiyyah and strongly against all types of innovation. If you reject the consensus by the Ummah your an infidel. This is the classic case of Wahhabi belief. When you make something thats allowed forbidden then your in trouble. You do not follow the main jama of muslims, who have permitted good bidah. This thread is for those who are not WAHHABI and want to learn proper Islamic belief. Even Yusuf Hamza, which I dont support says there's types of innovation.

Kkkkk. Wallahi you're a lier. There's a consensus that all newly invented matters without a prior example are considered dhalaalah. I just quoted ibn Hajr, Imam Shafi'i and the rest to you. It's not a Wahhabi belief to reject bid'ah, ALL ahlul Sunnah, including Sufis like Abdulqadir Jeylani have rejected bid'ah. The rejection of bid'ah is one in which there's no variation of opinions, only a person of desires would claim such thing.

Isn't it funny how you provide NO EVIDENCE for your claims, while I quote the Prophet (SAW), the Sahaba, Tabi'een and senior ulamaa?

 

[Hafez]

@Hafez This is why I called you a Wahhabi, you support Ibn Taymiyyah and strongly against all types of innovation. If you reject the consensus by the Ummah your an infidel. This is the classic case of Wahhabi belief. When you make something thats allowed forbidden then your in trouble. You do not follow the main jama of muslims, who have permitted good bidah. This thread is for those who are not WAHHABI and want to learn proper Islamic belief. Even Yusuf Hamza, which I dont support says there's types of innovation.

I've completed watching the video and you're a pretty naive person if you're taking his stance on this matter. There's only two types of bid'ah that the scholars have come to a consensus to. The 5 types of bid'ah that he mentions are the classifications that were introduced by Al Izz Ibn Abdus Salaam (RH), this is not the consensus of scholars/

Then he goes on to quote the classical example of Umar (RA) but the reasoning here is flawed. That goes under the heading as bid'ah that's from the religion, not alien to it. Every action and practice must have it's origins in our religion.

Allah Almighty says: "This day are those who disbelieve in despair of (ever harming) your religion; so fear them not, fear Me! This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favor unto you, and have chosen for you Al-Islam as religion. Whosoever is forced by hunger, not by will, to sin: (for him) Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." (Al-Ma'idah: 3)

 

[Young Popeye]

I've completed watching the video and you're a pretty naive person if you're taking his stance on this matter. There's only two types of bid'ah that the scholars have come to a consensus to. The 5 types of bid'ah that he mentions are the classifications that were introduced by Al Izz Ibn Abdus Salaam (RH), this is not the consensus of scholars/

Then he goes on to quote the classical example of Umar (RA) but the reasoning here is flawed. That goes under the heading as bid'ah that's from the religion, not alien to it. Every action and practice must have it's origins in our religion.

Allah Almighty says: "This day are those who disbelieve in despair of (ever harming) your religion; so fear them not, fear Me! This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favor unto you, and have chosen for you Al-Islam as religion. Whosoever is forced by hunger, not by will, to sin: (for him) Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." (Al-Ma'idah: 3)

@Hafez I know you wahhabis lie, if it will help spread your corrupt satanic faith, but ill give you the benefit of the doubt. At the university of Denmark, they have analyzed Sunnis vs Wahhabis on innovation, see page 212 https://www.lancaster.ac.uk/jais/volume/docs/vol13/v13_10_mathiesen_191-219.pdf Is the academic also a liar on the matter?