Believing in Darwinism is Kufr.

[Internet Nomad]

A great podcast on this topic by Subboor Ahmed which talk about this topic frequently.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Omar del Sur Is believing in the Sun existence Kufr? How else wud interpret the evidence.

1. Fossils of various species that show they evolved into other species, but humans can't right?
2. Micro evolution where sperm-egg bacteria create fetus and human and then it evolves till elderly age.
3. Take u thru biology lab where u can witness all the anatomy of animals and 'spot the difference' with human anatomy. Infact u chose to ignore with ur own eyes in nature how many traits u share with animal word and want this dismissed that we don't have common origins but separate origins.
4. We live in 1 earth, how is it possible we don't have common origin, what separate material exists in us that is different to the earth and universe u live in
5. DNA. You love DNA science for human sequencing, but ignore the same science to sequence animal dna and YOUR RELATIONS.

Omar your killing Islam off, ppl will leave if you contradict SCIENCE. It's as strong theory as the SUN EXISTS, u want to tell us basically the SUN don't exist and is un-true when u ignore the overwhelming evidence to support evolution.

This man who set the course for all biology

This Omar Del Sur kkkkk, choosing 7th century knowledge over 21st century EVIDENCE

 

[Internet Nomad]

@Omar del Sur Is believing in the Sun existence Kufr? How else wud interpret the evidence.

1. Fossils of various species that show they evolved into other species, but humans can't right?
2. Micro evolution where sperm-egg bacteria create fetus and human and then it evolves till elderly age.
3. Take u thru biology lab where u can witness all the anatomy of animals and 'spot the difference' with human anatomy. Infact u chose to ignore with ur own eyes in nature how many traits u share with animal word and want this dismissed that we don't have common origins but separate origins.
4. We live in 1 earth, how is it possible we don't have common origin, what separate material exists in us that is different to the earth and universe u live in
5. DNA. You love DNA science for human sequencing, but ignore the same science to sequence animal dna and YOUR RELATIONS.

Omar your killing Islam off, ppl will leave if you contradict SCIENCE. It's as strong theory as the SUN EXISTS, u want to tell us basically the SUN don't exist and is un-true when u ignore the overwhelming evidence to support evolution.

This man who set the course for all biology

This Omar Del Sur kkkkk, choosing 7th century knowledge over 21st century EVIDENCE

What do you think of the people who say I believe in evolution to a extent but i still regard the creation story for adam and eve to be true. The rest of animals can be created through the process of evolution but humans are different.

 

[Nin123]

Imaam Abdul Azeez Bin Baaz [rahimahullaah] stated regarding the belief that the origin of the human is an ape:

This statement is evil, falsehood, an opposition to the Book of Allaah [The Mighty and Majestic], an opposition to the Sunnah of Allaah’s Messenger [peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him] and an opposition to the consensus of the pious predecessors of this Ummah. This statement is well known from Darwin and he is a liar regarding that which he has stated; rather the origin of the human being is his well-known state – neither an ape nor other than it, rather he was created as a rational human being from earth and that is our father Aadam [peace and blessings be upon him], just as Allaah [The Exalted] said:

وَلَقَدْ خَلَقْنَا الإِنسَانَ مِنْ سُلالَةٍ مِنْ طِينٍ

And indeed We created man (Adam) out of an extract of clay (water and earth). [Surah al-Muminoon. Aayah 12]

It is obligated on a servant to believe that Aadam was not an ape and that Aadam’s [alayhis salaam] origin is the same as what the human being is at present – neither an ape nor other than it. The statement that his original state was that of an ape is an evil statement and falsehood; rather if it is stated that the one who utters this statement has committed Kufr, then that would be considered a good reason for saying so. What is clearer – and Allaah knows best – is that the one who utters this statement [i.e. that Aadam’s origin is an ape] whilst knowing that which the Sharee’ah has brought regarding this affair, then he is a kaafir, because he has belied Allaah, belied Allaah’s Messenger and belied the Book of Allaah regarding the creation of Aadam.

Imaam Muhammad Bin Saaleh Al-Uthaymeen [rahimahullaah] stated that it is tantamount to disbelief in Allaah to believe that the origin of the human being is an ape because it is a denial of the noble Qur’aan and the consensus of the Muslims [i.e. the scholars].

Al-Allaamah Muqbil Bin Haadee Al-Waadi’ee [rahimahullaah] stated about the theory of evolution: “This theory is considered Kufr".

https://salaficentre.com/2020/10/19/belief-in-darwins-theory-of-evolution-is-kufr-that-will-remove-a-person-from-the-fold-of-islaam-after-the-proofs-are-established-against-him-by-the-upright-scholars/

(btw I do not support spubs, there are serious issues with spubs, I do not support them but I also don't think these translations are fake)

@killerxsmoke @Odious Delirium

 

[DR OSMAN]

What do you think of the people who say I believe in evolution to a extent but i still regard the creation story for adam and eve to be true. The rest of animals can be created through the process of evolution but humans are different.

Tell em why is our DNA similar when sequenced. If they don't understand DNA. Point to nature and animals and say 'look at their skeleton, ribs, heart, legs, eyes, mouth, nose, etc' why do we share so much 'traits', tell em how anatomy of human can be lined up with all existing animals today and the difference is MINIMAL and the commonality WAY TO MANY to ignore their was a common ancestor. Their not 1 single physical human trait that is SEPARATE from animal world, it all exist there, the only difference some argue is 'awareness n intelligence' but even that is disputed becuz wat we define as intelligence is thru humans lens.

 

[Internet Nomad]

Tell em why is our DNA similar when sequenced. If they don't understand DNA. Point to nature and animals and say 'look at their skeleton, ribs, heart, legs, eyes, mouth, nose, etc' why do we share so much 'traits', tell em how anatomy of human can be lined up with all existing animals today and the difference is MINIMAL and the commonality WAY TO MANY to ignore their was a common ancestor.

What if god created adam and eve with the same building blocks of other creation. Thats the reason why we can trace similarities with other life.

 

[Internet Nomad]

@DR OSMAN
How can you say that human were able to gain consciousness? How did we go from non living chemistry to living biology and then sentience. Is there any way the process of evolution can bring out those results?

Im not entirely opposed to the idea if evolution i think some aspects of it are undeniable true i just also believe the quran is undeniable true. That leaves me to believe the Adam creation story to be literal truth.

However Nowhere does it say how Animals were created. Also it says that prior to Adam there were being roaming the earth maybe that could explain hominids prior to Adam?

 

[DR OSMAN]

What if god created adam and eve with the same building blocks of other creation. Thats the reason why we can trace similarities with other life.

It's accepted that their hidden dimensions we can't tap into, god could be playing a role, rather then the flat out naturalism extreme interpretation of accidents, anomolis, random, chaos goal posts to explain every phenonemen. I think it's accepted their is 13 dimension and only 4 are actually observable(width, height, depth, time) which all physical reality have those dimensions, but I think now their saying their is hidden dimensions involved up to 13.

I personally hold that belief. Why? Well my birth wasn't just egg-sperm yes it had that natural layer, but wat about the 'will or decisions' of my parent? u see if that applies to my existence(hidden dimension my parent will) I suspect universe has some 'power' that 'willed it into existence or made decision' also, but a naturalist will only see the 'natural layer' unfortunately.

 

[cooli3o]

1. Fossils of various species that show they evolved into other species, but humans can't right?

no they actually do not

2. Micro evolution where sperm-egg bacteria create fetus and human and then it evolves till elderly age.

thats not evolution, thats a set of genes going through phases, the DNA does not evolve, once the haploids are made and the independent assortment and crossing of chiasman happens the DNA of the organism is set, there is not evolution of genes

3. Take u thru biology lab where u can witness all the anatomy of animals and 'spot the difference' with human anatomy. Infact u chose to ignore with ur own eyes in nature how many traits u share with animal word and want this dismissed that we don't have common origins but separate origins.

just because we share characteristics does not mean we have a common ancestory, thats god of the gaps argument

4. We live in 1 earth, how is it possible we don't have common origin, what separate material exists in us that is different to the earth and universe u live in

our common origin could be from the same material, such as mud, and atoms, the question of how that formed into animals and humans is still not answered and therefore we cannot say for sure it was due to one proccess

5. DNA. You love DNA science for human sequencing, but ignore the same science to sequence animal dna and YOUR RELATIONS.

DNA sequencing does not show we are related to animals, similarities do not mean we come from the same DNA, in fact going back to ancestors only goes so far back in DNA, we can only track so far back before it gets inaccurate

It's as strong theory as the SUN EXISTS

that made me laugh because you do not understand science if you think evolution is as much as a fact as the sun exists, it is not, and it is funny you even imply that, we still know hardly anything about DNA and genes and animals origins most of it is speculation and filling in the gaps with "evolution"

21st century EVIDENCE

there is no evidence only interpretation

 

[Internet Nomad]

It's accepted that their hidden dimensions we can't tap into, god could be playing a role, rather then the flat out naturalism extreme interpretation of accidents, anomolis, random, chaos goal posts to explain every phenonemen. I think it's accepted their is 13 dimension and only 4 are actually observable(width, height, depth, time) which all physical reality have those dimensions, but I think now their saying their is hidden dimensions involved up to 13.

I personally hold that belief. Why? Well my birth wasn't just egg-sperm yes it had that natural layer, but wat about the 'will or decisions' of my parent? u see if that applies to my existence(hidden dimension my parent will) I suspect universe has some 'power' that 'willed it into existence or made decision' also, but a naturalist will only see the 'natural layer' unfortunately.

Last time i spoke to you were a full naturalist through and through. It great to see your personal development to make you lean to agnostic side of the debate. Inshallah you will rejoin the deen one day.

 

[DR OSMAN]

no they actually do not

thats not evolution, thats a set of genes going through phases, the DNA does not evolve, once the haploids are made and the independent assortment and crossing of chiasman happens the DNA of the organism is set, there is not evolution of genes

just because we share characteristics does not mean we have a common ancestory, thats god of the gaps argument

our common origin could be from the same material, such as mud, and atoms, the question of how that formed into animals and humans is still not answered and therefore we cannot say for sure it was due to one proccess

DNA sequencing does not show we are related to animals, similarities do not mean we come from the same DNA, in fact going back to ancestors only goes so far back in DNA, we can only track so far back before it gets inaccurate

that made me laugh because you do not understand science if you think evolution is as much as a fact as the sun exists, it is not, and it is funny you even imply that, we still know hardly anything about DNA and genes and animals origins most of it is speculation and filling in the gaps with "evolution"

there is no evidence only interpretation

Im not a science expert nor claimed it. But thanks for ur contribution

 

[DR OSMAN]

Last time i spoke to you were a full naturalist through and through. It great to see your personal development to make you lean to agnostic side of the debate. Inshallah you will rejoin the deen one day.

I am not as interested in main stream religion, way to corrupt 4 me and to many dogma, rituals, and group thinking to the point it's IDOL worship to me, my belief is more personal. When I rejected religion It wasn't I had doubts of something beyond me, I just rejected that something beyond me topic enveloped thru mainstream religion. Public facing religion is just not my thing, i doubt it ever will be.

 

[cooli3o]

Im not a science expert nor claimed it. But thanks for ur contribution

Look into evolution yourself, if you study the science, their are alot of filling in gaps with "evolution". when you actually look at the cell biology and deeper things it amazes you how the human and animal life work on a microscale, in fact there is even more stuff going on that we cannot see and haven't found out about yet.
MY point is, when you research it, you will see that it is not clear cut what has actually happened, evolution seems to be the most "logical" explanation for everything but that doesn't mean it is a fact.
in fact the fact you believe what all modern scientists tell you without knowing it or it having any practical application in your life like electricity for example you cannot confirm whether it is even true or not nor do you understand if the scientists are lying to you or telling you their opinion you are showing the same faith you criticise us muslims for in your scientists
I love science but what scientists tell me is not the truth but I will take their word for it as it is an educated opinion, whether they are 100% right or not I do not know and i do not believe them 100%

 

[Internet Nomad]

I am not as interested in main stream religion, way to corrupt 4 me and to many dogma, rituals, and group thinking to the point it's IDOL worship to me, my belief is more personal. When I rejected religion It wasn't I had doubts of something beyond me, I just rejected that something beyond me topic enveloped thru mainstream religion. Public facing religion is just not my thing, i doubt it ever will be.

Thats your problem my friend you cannot separate a ideal from its followers.

If you ask any muslim on the street is the state of the ummah satisfactory most people will say no. Corruption and hypocrisy is rampant but that doesn’t stop the average muslim from practicing their deen.

just imagine on yamul qiyamah god asks you why have you not accepted my message and you respond because nobody else was following it correctly. Its a very infantile response to be serious with you.

Also there is no such thing as a mainstream religion there is only THEE religion and a bunch of lies

 

[DR OSMAN]

@cooli3o U dismissed my arguments with 'god of gap' being used to fill in the blanks. How else can u interpret those shared traits we share with animal species without putting evolution in the blanks and explain it thru common roots? GOD doesn't seem to fit into that unless at hidden 'dimension' which I lean more too, but I won't explain that physical and natural layer similarities between us and animals as u did thru pure dismissal but u provide not a single theory to contest it or explain it better. Dismissal of a theory isn't EVIDENCE kkkkkk, just admit it, evolution explains it the best.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Thats your problem my friend you cannot separate a ideal from its followers.

If you ask any muslim on the street is the state of the ummah satisfactory most people will say no. Corruption and hypocrisy is rampant but that doesn’t stop the average muslim from practicing their deen.

just imagine on yamul qiyamah god asks you why have you not accepted my message and you respond because nobody else was following it correctly. Its a very infantile response to be serious with you.

Also there is no such thing as a mainstream religion there is only THEE religion and a bunch of lies

There is a quote that explains religion perfectly and u seem to be showing same traits as the quote.

You seem over-focused on hell and punishment which guides ur faith, which is fine, u haven't experienced psychosis niyahow, u come out of that hellish experience with 'personal god' as u experienced something radically different to the avg geeser. But religion may work 4 them if their 'growth' has simply ended with 'I FEAR HELL and therefore I Pray to Allah'.

 

[cooli3o]

@cooli3o U dismissed my arguments with 'god of gap' being used to fill in the blanks. How else can u interpret those shared traits we share with animal species without putting evolution in the blanks and explain it thru common roots? GOD doesn't seem to fit into that unless at hidden 'dimension' which I lean more too, but I won't explain that physical and natural layer similarities between us and animals as u did thru pure dismissal but u provide not a single theory to contest it or explain it better. Dismissal of a theory isn't EVIDENCE kkkkkk, just admit it, evolution explains it the best.

Just because we don't have another theory doesn't make evolution true,
thats like saying the only theory for the reason apple falls when dropped is gravity, if you cannot come up with another theory then the theory of gravity has to be true,
lack of evidence is not proof of evidence
if you cannot prove something to be 100% true and any other possibility to be impossible you cannot assert your theory is 100%
if you want to say evolution is the most rational theory to you thats fine, but I do not believe it is fact
how do you explain the similarities between all living and non living organisms, we all have similiar patterns and created in a similar way, all material in the universe has similar patterns, balance in the way it is formed, when you look at the universe and earth, you will find similarity in all material, how do you explain that?

 

[cooli3o]

There is a quote that explains religion perfectly and u seem to be showing same traits as the quote.

You seem over-focused on hell and punishment which guides ur faith, which is fine, u haven't experienced psychosis niyahow, u come out of that hellish experience with 'personal god' as u experienced something radically different to the avg geeser. But religion may work 4 them if their 'growth' has simply ended with 'I FEAR HELL and therefore I Pray to Allah'.

most muslims dont even fear hell so your point is mute

 

[DR OSMAN]

Thats your problem my friend you cannot separate a ideal from its followers.

If you ask any muslim on the street is the state of the ummah satisfactory most people will say no. Corruption and hypocrisy is rampant but that doesn’t stop the average muslim from practicing their deen.

just imagine on yamul qiyamah god asks you why have you not accepted my message and you respond because nobody else was following it correctly. Its a very infantile response to be serious with you.

Also there is no such thing as a mainstream religion there is only THEE religion and a bunch of lies

Psychosis is an 'experience' just like HELL is an 'experience'. I may not of been burning physically, but all the actual burning and heat in my head and red eyes thru psychotic hallucinations resembled a similar punishment. Have u ever been stuck in a world, where u don't believe humans exist and it's all artificial jinns who hijacked them(even mosques)? even plants n animals u see as 'hijacked by jinns or artificial' it's a very lonely place and experience. Infact I screamed that god just give me death peacefully. I relate to how ppl in hell will prefer death in that quran ayah.

 

[cooli3o]

Psychosis is an 'experience' just like HELL is an 'experience'. I may not of been burning physically, but all the actual burning and heat in my head and red eyes thru psychotic hallucinations resembled a similar punishment. Have u ever been stuck in a world, where u don't believe humans exist and it's all artificial jinns who hijacked them(even mosques)? even plants n animals u see as 'hijacked by jinns or artificial' it's a very lonely place and experience. Infact I screamed that god just give me death peacefully. I relate to how ppl in hell will prefer death in that quran ayah.

why were you in psychosis