Can Somalia be built on the basis of clan?

[Prince of Lasanod]

Vote.

I think the idea of "ancestral clan land" is incompatible with the modern state, and that each and every single city should be mixed clan wise. The effort must first begin in Mogadishu. Tough luck on Hawiye, you shouldn't have done your clan cleansing in the capital city. Another point I would like to mention is that we don't have federalism but countries within Somalia where the borders are based on clan territory. Again, this puts the idea of a "Somali" state at risk.

 

[Angela Davis]

No but if they must than they must institute a new constitution that involves power sharing where reer xamar people and bantus also get a chance at the presidency. We can't have the same old men passing the presidency around back and forth to each other. We need some female presidents as well.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

No but if they must than they must institute a new constitution that involves power sharing where reer xamar people and bantus also get a chance at the presidency. We can't have the same old men passing the presidency around back and forth to each other. We need some female presidents as well.

Is there any laws which prohibit women or minorities from becoming President? No. Minorities make up less than 10 % of Somalia's population, so they won't get more than what is just for them in terms of their population.

 

[Arman]

 

[government]

No but if they must than they must institute a new constitution that involves power sharing where reer xamar people and bantus also get a chance at the presidency. We can't have the same old men passing the presidency around back and forth to each other. We need some female presidents as well.

Bantus are an invasive species they should not hold power

 

[$$$$]

Not really.

We could have some success with clan if the clan rivalries weren't so deep.

Currently it is holding back every single Federal state. Every sub sub sub sub sub clan will do what they can so that they can get their slice of the pie. It is so bad right now that even PL and SL can be considered as dysfunctional even though they enjoy more maturity and stability than other federal states.

EDIT:

I believe federalism based on the current states could be successful if it is polished up. If the boundaries between states are clearly defined, if there are mechanisms to stop states from clashing, and if government funds were distributed fairly (not necessarily equally) amongst states, that there be progress. This is assuming that all foreign influences are removed, and that all federal states have semi or fully competent leaders.

There may even be room for another two or three states. Perhaps an SSC state, a Waqooyiland, and Banadir state.

We can avoid problems of the past by ensuring that a central government like Barres never returns. One were all development occurs in one city, and power is held by few. This is a realistic system.

Also, this can only work if there isn't too much intra clan bs in the federal states. I am referring to the power struggles taking place in like all of them.

 

[Angela Davis]

Let's be honest here now. With your reasoning Barack Obama should not have become president because African Americans only make 12% of the US population. The problem with Somalis is that we keep selecting racist, qabiilist, homophobic, misogynist men who lack proper education, empathy, compassion and have no idea how to run a country. All they know is how to steal money for their families. If the men we keep selecting actually did any good for our country, we wouldn't all be living in the West right now and Somalia wouldn't be in the state that it's in today. So why not actually make a change and give different people a chance to lead. As long as we keep oppressing people because they are "considered a minority" and not valuable...Somalia will continue to be a shit hole.

Is there any laws which prohibit women or minorities from becoming President? No. Minorities make up less than 10 % of Somalia's population, so they won't get more than what is just for them in terms of their population.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

Let's be honest here now. With your reasoning Barack Obama should not have become president because African Americans only make 12% of the US population. The problem with Somalis is that we keep selecting racist, qabiilist, homophobic, misogynist men who lack proper education, empathy, compassion and have no idea how to run a country. All they know is how to steal money for their families. If the men we keep selecting actually did any good for our country, we wouldn't all be living in the West right now and Somalia wouldn't be in the state that it's in today. So why not actually make a change and give different people a chance to lead. As long as we keep oppressing people because they are "considered a minority" and not valuable...Somalia will continue to be a shit hole.

f*ck off

 

[Angela Davis]

People who think like you are an invasive species.

Bantus are an invasive species they should not hold power

 

[Angela Davis]

Don't ask a question that you don't want an answer to sir. Thanks for proving me right.

f*ck off

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

Don't ask a question that you don't want an answer to sir. Thanks for proving me right.

You can take your SJW crap somewhere is. This thread is talking about clan, not women, not , and not arabs.

 

[Angela Davis]

You don't OWN somalia and trust me when I say all these uneducated somali men running the country...their time is limited.

f*ck off

 

[government]

People who think like you are an invasive species.

I'm 100% somali unlike those Bantus how came to somalia as slaves

 

[Angela Davis]

You are a dimwit. ALL the clans you are talking about...women gave birth to them...and they were made from AFRICANS AND ARABS. So the clan you are talking about is nothing BUT WOMAN, AFRICANS AND ARABS.

You can take your SJW crap somewhere is. This thread is talking about clan, not women, not , and not arabs.

 

[Angela Davis]

if your sperm can create a clan without a woman...go right on ahead and prove me wrong but don't you dare try to silence me again. I'm not your sister or your mother that you can abuse.

You can take your SJW crap somewhere is. This thread is talking about clan, not women, not , and not arabs.

 

[Codeine]

Yes

 

[Codeine]

if your sperm can create a clan without a woman...go right on ahead and prove me wrong but don't you dare try to silence me again. I'm not your sister or your mother that you can abuse.

I agree that a Bantu in Somalia should just as good of a shot at presidency as any Darood or Hawiye. However, Somalia is just not in that place right now. I've been forever trying to understand the political system there and it just seems like people vote for persons not.parties. Umtil that stops no minority will EVER seize power. Not necessarily because people are racist (they are) but because there's incentive to vote based on qabil. Also qabil is basically a surname. If you're a woman you don't pass on your qabil regardless.

 

[$$$$]

So the capital of the Somalia becomes a federal state?

Somalia should have 18 local governments based on the pre 1991 regions. Each having a local capital, whilst the main capital of Somalia is Mogadishu. These federal states should be based on development, local rule, police etc. They could be governors or something.

Today we have 4 or 5 independent countries within Somalia that have their own army, police, foreign policy, intelligence, and I could go on. These countries are based on clan lines, and they view anybody who isn't for example Harti as foreigners. A country simply cannot be built on clan lines, it's incompatible with a modern state.

I have edited my post and merged it with my previous one before you quoted me. You haven't seen my edits.

I acknowledged clan rivalries, incompetent leadership, and foreign influences as issues.

 

[Angela Davis]

I think that somali constitution and culture needs to go through a reform. We can't keep racist, prejudiced, oppressive practices to go on and assume its hopeless. That's what these power hungry ignorant men want. We create culture and we have the power to change it. Culture is not set in stone and it's not stagnate. The Somalia of the 60's and 70's was less oppressive than the Somalia we have today. So if it could change for the worst, it can change for the better. We have to stop allowing our women from being silenced and shamed. We have to stop allowing minority groups to go on living in Somalia with no rights.

Hannah Arendt said that when we stop thinking and doing things because we are told to do them or because it's how it was always done and we don't question how ethical it is...that is when we are the most dangerous. Most evil in this world isn't done by sadistics and psychopaths...but rather by everyday people like you and I because we don't think and we accept the flaws of our country because we are told that's how it's always been. She calls this the banality of evil. Read up on it. Reality is that is a manipulation of our collective memory. It's not how it has always been and our reality can change.

My favourite quote of hers is
“When all are guilty, no one is; confessions of collective guilt are the best possible safeguard against the discovery of culprits, and the very magnitude of the crime the best excuse for doing nothing. ”
― Hannah Arendt

Somalis are guilty of this...allowing for an oppressive culture to exist where everyone is a culprit and no one is at the same time so there is no one to blame.

I agree that a Bantu in Somalia should just as good of a shot at presidency as any Darood or Hawiye. However, Somalia is just not in that place right now. I've been forever trying to understand the political system there and it just seems like people vote for persons not.parties. Umtil that stops no minority will EVER seize power. Not necessarily because people are racist (they are) but because there's incentive to vote based on qabil. Also qabil is basically a surname. If you're a woman you don't pass on your qabil regardless.

 

[AussieHustler]

Prince

It is possible only if the tough and harsh economic conditions of the nomad peasants is transformed into a productive one where they are capable to feed, educate and get access to proper housing, health care for them and their families. First, the economic conditions on the ground and the training of these nomads should be established. Once, the individual becomes self-sufficient and is programmed with ideals of a shared identity, they will not accept the supremacy of the clan over their lives and anarchy to disrupt their comfortable lives. Japan used to be a more clan based feudal system than us.