Dangers of Decentralization

[Lord Flacko]

Somalis have nomadic values, there is no way a Somali is going to allow another clan take sole control of it's affairs. It was the problem that was inherited from colonialism. You simply cant all of a sudden take a group of people who lived separately and ruled themselves and dump them in one city and say agree on a system. The only way this system will work is you will need to seek external enemies(colonialist, ethiopians, kenyans, americans, russians) you will forever need an external enemy to keep them united. Like Genghis Khan did for the mongols, he knew the only way he could unite his people was to focus their energies on other 'nations' but guess what? eventually what happens if you conquer all your enemies and have no enemies to focus on and your the remaining power? you turn on each other. We tried that route of uniting ourselves on external enemies and we know external enemies won't exist forever. It will lead to three outcomes. 1. You beat them and if you do that then you have no enemy to unite you..2. They beat you and you are finished. 3. Be in a stalemate like ethiopia-eritrea and have your stability rely on that. Not the greatest insurance for centralism.

Federalism is definitely the way forward, I can just point to how our clans live federally to support that claim. To say you want to go against that and create the 1960 utopia(which it really wasn't). You dont need to point to other countries but just go back into Somali history and you can clearly see they were federal, I say federal cause they shared a system (xeer), if they didn't have a xeer that would make them completely separate countries. Their xeer didn't stipulate all power, wealth, influence is going to be located in one place for all tribes. They lived autonomously but had a shared legal structure, land structure, water structure. You could say the only thing that was shared among them was legal things and infrastructure(resources). There was absolutely nothing else that was shared and in-fact I think nothing else should be shared.

Nomadic values are only helpful when the only thing you have is your clan. Need help settling a land dispute? Your clan got your back.

These nomadic values will disappear as soon as the government actually does their job and sets up institutions. But if this government is essentially your clan then they will continue to persist. Then fast forward into the future and the clans have outgrown eachother and then the same problems pop up.

Nomadic values are outdated and seen as savage ways in most successful nations. You're not supposed to appease them but make them go away.

Prince Hobyo do u really think you would be building a road to hobyo and a port if you relied on Mogadishu?. The fact the development that is occuring around somalia is enough proof that federalism works. We see tangible results. We seen centralism results 1991-2004. If that isn't enough for u. Then I question if you want to see somalia at peace or not.

If Somalia goes back to centralism, this country should disintegrate totally. It's heading back to 15 failed conferences since 91 till 2004, I would urge PL to declare secession then because it is absolutely pointless then remaining in a country that wants to go back 'failed' processes.

The Hobyo-Gaalkacyo road is being funded by the Habar Gidir but it will be paved thanks to Mogadishu.

I firmly believe slowly centralizing power into Mogadishu will be for the better, but only with capable leaders and with an actual democratic process.

I do know the the current currency crisis is due to decentralization, but as the current Finance Minister Beyleh is looking to properly centralize the economy I'm hoping it will be fixed.

 

[Lord Flacko]

LOL this dude just googled Bosnian politics. Washington agreement kulaha kkkkkk. Anyways, The common denominator is mistrust. I will fight tooth and nail to prevent that my fate and the fate of my family is decided in Xamar.

I actually have Bosniak friends who are knowledgeable about their own home country. They've told me a good amount of things.


Mistrust is easy to fix with proper independent institutions.

 

[Abdalla]

Abda


I agree and it's totally wrong. PL should be federalized because bosaso wouldnt be where it is if it wasnt for the infrastructure investment which was taken in 'somali' name. Infact that kid in hamar, las anod, hargeisa should get a cut out of it if we are talking real talk!!! I have no problems with resources being shared because it is in our cultural xeer to share water wells, land, pasture, etc. We don't keep resources to ourselves, but what we do keep to ourself is our 'self rule' and I will die defending that against the centralist anarchists.

You misunderstood TGS. He means because of the meager resources he rather spends it on one basket (bosaso in the case) than try to divide it and amongst the entire state. He didn't say Bosaso is only for reer Bosaso

 

[DR OSMAN]

Prince Hobyo...Set good institutions? the people behind and sitting inside the institutions are tribal as hell. They only understand tribe. When it comes to ruling a sentence on one of their clansmen they will give a lenient sentence. When it comes to injecting a project, they will run to their tuulo. When it comes to giving positions, it won't be on merit but their closest 'ina adeer'. No type of institution is going to change someone culture. The west never changed it's culture, it catered to it. They were set up as peasants and rich a feudal system and created parties representing both(left and right wing). We need to cater also for tribe as that is how our society is structured not structure it according to how westerners are structured. Your very short sighted and just see the success in the west and think be copying and pasting you will get the same result. If that was the case, Africa would be a paradise since their is many democracies there and it's all failing. I know why it's failing, I just explained that.

You can't change a thousand year culture, learn from siyad barre he tried and it doesn't work. Some say when you become richer it becomes irrelevant which isn't true Saudi Arabia and Dubai are still hella tribal. Culture doesn't die away or racism would be dead in the west. After all it has strong institutions yet it still remains strong cause it's apart of the people culture. They had to cater to it by doing affirmative action and other mechanisms!!! You want to know why the west is successful, runta kama ordan.

 

[DR OSMAN]

We already addressed the tribe factor thru 4.5 and it works. People aren't saying they didn't get their fair share. We addressed the issue of self rule thru federalism so another clan doesn't feel like it's being dominated by another clan. The only thing really left is to cure the mistrust!!! once we hit that nail on the head, we can move forward and the way to cure it is thru 'consequences' tough ones for breaching the system.

 

[Lord Flacko]

The west never changed it's culture, it catered to it.

Are you seriously believing that?

You are incredibly wrong saying culture can't change. It can it has it will.

I don't even know where to start, it's like you're knowingly blind.

I'll just say this, qabiil is really on of the easiest cultural things one can change. It's straight up based on the lack of Government. Japan (again) is the perfect example. They used to have more clans than us and they were incredibly tribal. But today they're a modern and successful nation.

Somalis don't have a long history of actual government, which is why qabiil has survived through the years. In Europe and Asia it died long ago.

Africa would be a paradise since their is many democracies there and it's all failing. I know why it's failing, I just explained that.

Literally the most successful/peaceful/progressing nations in Africa are democratic (South Africa, Egypt, Morroco). Meanwhile the shit holes are the undemocratic ones. Wallahi you just say random shit to test what sticks

 

[DR OSMAN]

Prince of hobyo, Japan was military forced to adopt democracy. They had Americans stationed in their country and lost all military capacity. Do you know what happened to them after hiroshima? they had no right to have an army and had to adopt a government system that was in-line with the west. It was basically a gun to their head. Japan is still a very traditional society, culture takes a long time to die. You honestly dying to become another man system and it just wont work. You don't come from the same environment, same economics, same history. Culture is shaped by those factors. Thats why you now have a western culture because you there sharing their environment, economics, etc. But that isn't the case for the people in somalia.

I never said culture cannot change, culture is man-made. These 18 gobols you see today is man made yet people identify with it, but will they die for it? no. Western democracy is the same. They will identify with parties, but they will never die for it. If the people aren't prepared to die for their system, it's pointless. For example people accepted the identity of being reer bari or reer mudug or reer banadir but they are not prepared to die for it or else all the people in banadir today would unite under the banadir name. Or all the mudug folks would unite under mudug name. Notice how regional states hasn't changed them to unite? bring on democracy and it won't unite them. Bring on centralism, bring on anything other then tribe and ur wasting your time and in denial.

Somalia needs to get rid of these 1960 left over day dreamers, they are not helping with resolutions but living a dream.

When I say culture get what I am saying also. I mean what people are prepared to die for, thats culture. They won't die for these silly 18 regions but they will identify with it only. Siyad was trying to destroy tribe that way by getting people to unite under new 'regional' names but it didn't work. He was trying to bridge tribal differences by putting people into a state and hoping that state identity would lead to uniting them. It hasn't worked. If you bring in democracy it going to be the same effect, just a different idea yet tribe will still be stronger.

We don't need to prove democracy has failed in somalia. We have the 1960s to speak for itself. Corruption, clan parties, all the ill side-effects generated by a society who dont truly believe in their system. Remember when I say believe I mean 'die' for. That's the only way I gouge what people truly believe or don't believe. I don't look at what people identify with 'somalinimo, regional names like bari and banadir', parties' cause I don't see them ever throughout history dying and uniting behind it.

If Somalis were prepared to die for a central democracy, I would say bring it on. Till then stop taking us back to failed processes.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Prince Hobyo when saleban and sacad can unite behind hobyo name drop the tribal name, then ill see small step progress towards democracy and idealogy, till then come on who are u kidding!!! I mean seriously u cant even unite with saleban and sacad over a shared identity 'hobyo' and u will unite with a majerten in a 'national party'?. We still haven't even united at regional identity level let alone political level!!! and u need regional identity(constiuency) for a damn democracy to flourish.

Lets not play games people, democracy is not suitable to somalia. We were gianting leaps before we can even crawl(unite people using just degmo as their identity)

 

[DR OSMAN]

I hope the new age somalis take over the government and dont follow in their father footsteps. We made some bad decisions in the past, lets not repeat it ever again or else we going to remain where we are forever. We need new age thinkers, people that think outside the box, not just copy other countries without reflecting on their own society first.

 

[DR OSMAN]

I honestly don't have much hope for the hawiye or isaaq generation. They are not the greatest of thinkers in our society, they are better of just doing or implementing tasks handed to them by darod thinkers. They just inherit things. I don't see much creativity from them at all except rehashing or doing what others do.

Somalia really needs the darods because I studied somali history and everything has been inherited from them. SYL by yasin ali sharmarke the first founder and architect. Siyad barre the architect of communism and devising plans to destroy tribalism by uniting tribes thru 'district' or 'regional' levels to achieve communism plans for the country. Federalism the father which is abdillahi yusuf after assessing how our history and clans operated and how somalis can operate again as one nation. Somali flag, somali anthem, all these ports, airports, roads, educated class, poetries(sayid), our army culture(darawish), our govt culture(psuedo mix of sylers and siyadists) etc.

If I was the president, I would appoint the roles that need 'creative' thinkers to darod, it's a far better strike rate then other clans. I would appoint the roles that just need implementors to other clans. I am glad that Juxa is in charge of reconciliation, this needs a huge thinker.

 

[DR OSMAN]

The only 'real' thinkers I have identified in Somalia are 'farole', 'zakariye haji' and 'ali khalif galayr'. Those three are huge thinkers on a different level. Where-as 'juxa', 'bayle' are top performers and I feel they are thinkers by the way they approach problems 'creatively' not through 'wadan kale ba sidan ah'. I am not being tribal either but they impress me the most. I dont know who is more creative farole-zakariye or ali khalif but those three are the biggest thinkers without a doubt!!! Two of which I strongly disagree with.

I don't think Gaas or Sharmarke are big thinkers, they are educated but not 'creative visionaries'. They are good technocrats and implementor so to speak!!! I disagree alot with zackariye haji and ali khalif galayr but they makes me listen cause they are 'creative' as hell!!!

As for the Hawiye, I would have to give it too Badiyow and Geedi, I think they are up there also with the big thinkers!!! Isaaq, cigaal he was pretty creative, I give them that!!!

That's why I think it's best every clan comes well prepared and bring their best debators and minds for reconciliation and constitution. Warlords or Moryans simply won't cut it here, u need brains and prove your argument cause the darod side is pretty well lined up!!! I honestly was suprised when they elected abdiqaybdiid and muse sudi to the upper house, those guys will get run over 100 ways to sunday by thinkers.

 

[XamarCade]

The only 'real' thinkers I have identified in Somalia are 'farole', 'zakariye haji' and 'ali khalif galayr'. Those three are huge thinkers on a different level. Where-as 'juxa', 'bayle' are top performers and I feel they are thinkers by the way they approach problems 'creatively' not through 'wadan kale ba sidan ah'. I am not being tribal either but they impress me the most. I dont know who is more creative farole-zakariye or ali khalif but those three are the biggest thinkers without a doubt!!! Two of which I strongly disagree with.

I don't think Gaas or Sharmarke are big thinkers, they are educated but not 'creative visionaries'. They are good technocrats and implementor so to speak!!! I disagree alot with zackariye haji and ali khalif galayr but they makes me listen cause they are 'creative' as hell!!!

As for the Hawiye, I would have to give it too Badiyow and Geedi, I think they are up there also with the big thinkers!!! Isaaq, cigaal he was pretty creative, I give them that!!!

That's why I think it's best every clan comes well prepared and bring their best debators and minds for reconciliation and constitution. Warlords or Moryans simply won't cut it here, u need brains and prove your argument cause the darod side is pretty well lined up!!! I honestly was suprised when they elected abdiqaybdiid and muse sudi to the upper house, those guys will get run over 100 ways to sunday by thinkers.

Ur a funny guy walahi

 

[Abdalla]

The only 'real' thinkers I have identified in Somalia are 'farole', 'zakariye haji' and 'ali khalif galayr'. Those three are huge thinkers on a different level. Where-as 'juxa', 'bayle' are top performers and I feel they are thinkers by the way they approach problems 'creatively' not through 'wadan kale ba sidan ah'. I am not being tribal either but they impress me the most. I dont know who is more creative farole-zakariye or ali khalif but those three are the biggest thinkers without a doubt!!! Two of which I strongly disagree with.

I don't think Gaas or Sharmarke are big thinkers, they are educated but not 'creative visionaries'. They are good technocrats and implementor so to speak!!! I disagree alot with zackariye haji and ali khalif galayr but they makes me listen cause they are 'creative' as hell!!!

As for the Hawiye, I would have to give it too Badiyow and Geedi, I think they are up there also with the big thinkers!!! Isaaq, cigaal he was pretty creative, I give them that!!!

That's why I think it's best every clan comes well prepared and bring their best debators and minds for reconciliation and constitution. Warlords or Moryans simply won't cut it here, u need brains and prove your argument cause the darod side is pretty well lined up!!! I honestly was suprised when they elected abdiqaybdiid and muse sudi to the upper house, those guys will get run over 100 ways to sunday by thinkers.

Faroole is a candidate to chair the commission on constitutional affairs (gudiga dastuurka) which consists of 10 members from the lower and upper houses.

I miss Faroole's speeches. It always had suprising elements. Unlike Gaas, he use to give a full report on his travels and meetings.

 

[felloff]

Somalia should of choose federal states based on the 18 administrative regions before the civil war

 

[Cotton Eyed Joe]

Prince Hobyo when saleban and sacad can unite behind hobyo name drop the tribal name, then ill see small step progress towards democracy and idealogy, till then come on who are u kidding!!! I mean seriously u cant even unite with saleban and sacad over a shared identity 'hobyo' and u will unite with a majerten in a 'national party'?. We still haven't even united at regional identity level let alone political level!!! and u need regional identity(constiuency) for a damn democracy to flourish.

Lets not play games people, democracy is not suitable to somalia. We were gianting leaps before we can even crawl(unite people using just degmo as their identity)

 

[Deactivated]

Focus on your gobols.

 

[Yonis]

Focus on your gobols.

state, and you're not a puntlander

 

[Deactivated]

state, and you're not a puntlander

Little neef,

You have a lot to learn. Typing from Hoyos house all day and claiming "puntland this and puntland that" makes the rest of us look terrible.

I know your YouTube trolling account: Prince of Puntland. There's a few of you I noticed and your all the same--bunch of lowlife kids making Puntlanders look terrible on the YouTube comments.

The difference between you and I on here is that I show my face and have nothing to hide.

How about you focus on saving money, growing some equity and investing in Puntland with your OWN MONEY. Quit running around posting other Puntlanders achievements when you never put the work in yourself.

I still want to take you on that flight from Bosasso to Xamaar just to see your heart rate and sweat glands swell up.

 

[Yonis]

Little neef,

You have a lot to learn. Typing from Hoyos house all day and claiming "puntland this and puntland that" makes the rest of us look terrible.

I know your YouTube trolling account: Prince of Puntland. There's a few of you I noticed and your all the same--bunch of lowlife kids making Puntlanders look terrible on the YouTube comments.

The difference between you and I on here is that I show my face and have nothing to hide.

How about you focus on saving money, growing some equity and investing in Puntland with your OWN MONEY. Quit running around posting other Puntlanders achievements when you never put the work in yourself.

I still want to take you on that flight from Bosasso to Xamaar just to see your heart rate and sweat glands swell up.

Go to xamar you tutu lover, you don't belong in Puntland

 

[Deactivated]

Go to xamar you tutu lover, you don't belong in Puntland

Little neef,

Focus on yourself. Trolling doesn't return capital. It seems you get more of a high trolling people on behave of "Puntland" then I would seeing a stock ticker flare up with double digit returns.

Your barking up the wrong tree. I don't get upset by trolls; because I know who they are. Whip the Dhuuf off your nose and go do something productive with your life.