So when are you gonna go back to Xamar, tomorrow ? I can give uncle Gaas a call to give you a lift
Dangers of Decentralization
- Thread starter Thegoodshepherd
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Lord Flacko
VIP
@DR OSMAN
You need to stop rambling. Make coherent paragraphs and sentence + arguments.
And I'm not naive, Somalia won't become some utopia over time. But democracy can work just fine with qabiil, because when it comes down to it subclans only think about their own interests. Let each subclan have their own party. At that stage none of the parties will be big enough to format an actual government so they'll be forced to cooperate. Over time qabiil based politics will naturally transition over to interests based ones. And during that time frame institutions can hopefully be properly implemented and people will realise that political bickering is the only way to achieve things instead of fighting.
In fact this is the path I see Somalia taking for itself at the moment. But time will tell. Either way I'll be focused on business by that time. Just talking alot of politics online is tirering
You need to stop rambling. Make coherent paragraphs and sentence + arguments.
And I'm not naive, Somalia won't become some utopia over time. But democracy can work just fine with qabiil, because when it comes down to it subclans only think about their own interests. Let each subclan have their own party. At that stage none of the parties will be big enough to format an actual government so they'll be forced to cooperate. Over time qabiil based politics will naturally transition over to interests based ones. And during that time frame institutions can hopefully be properly implemented and people will realise that political bickering is the only way to achieve things instead of fighting.
In fact this is the path I see Somalia taking for itself at the moment. But time will tell. Either way I'll be focused on business by that time. Just talking alot of politics online is tirering
The only group that is consistently against federalism in Somalia is Habar Gidir. And we all know the reason: they come from a barren shitland and have no where else to go. Their neighbors in Galgaduud like MX have elsewhere to go (Jubbaland), but HG have no where. They sent hordes of mooryian over to Benadir in 91, but Abgaal have made it clear that they do not consider those mooryian remnants local to Benadir and have worked to dislodge them whenever the opportunity has presented itself. The mooryian presence in L. Shabeele is also very tenuous. HG know as the federal system entrenches and becomes stronger, they will be sent back to Cadaado and Dhuusotown and are very nervous about that future.
So when are you gonna go back to Xamar, tomorrow ? I can give uncle Gaas a call to give you a lift
Uncle Gaas Kullaha.
Have you met Gaas? Have you shaken his hand? Does he know you by name?
How do we get rid of these neefs from Puntland?
Uncle Gaas Kullaha.
Have you met Gaas? Have you shaken his hand? Does he know you by name?
How do we get rid of these neefs from Puntland?
YES,
YES, and
YES
I'm reer cabdille Omar Mahamoud, my family is in charge of Puntland
The question is how do we get Hawiye parasites claiming a region that has nothing to do with them and smuggle them back to koonfur
Intriguing question
Benefits of federalism
-Greater accountability. If you are a Puntland resident, or a Jubbaland resident, or a resident of Hirshabelle, etc you can hold your local state president and regional representatives (who more often than not will be from your clan) accountable to deliver results for you because power distribution will empower them to have much more influence over your life and your region's development.
-Greater resource distribution. Regions will receive more financial resources as federal member states will demand that foreign aid is directed less toward Mogadishu and more toward the regions.
-Natural Resource self-determination. Federalism will ensure that the federal member states receive the majority of the proceeds that are earned from natural resources found in their region.
-Mogadishu's relevance diminishes. Mogadishu's political power is reduced in a federal system, meaning that out-of-touch elites here will have less impact on the lives of Somali people. The city will also see less migration as greater resource and power distribution will mean that the majority of people will opt to remain in their traditional settlements rather than migrate to the capital like in Siad Barre's time.
Downsides to federalism:
-Resource disparity (some regions will be poor and dependent...particularly Galnusmudug)
Overall, the benefits outweigh the downsides!
-Greater accountability. If you are a Puntland resident, or a Jubbaland resident, or a resident of Hirshabelle, etc you can hold your local state president and regional representatives (who more often than not will be from your clan) accountable to deliver results for you because power distribution will empower them to have much more influence over your life and your region's development.
-Greater resource distribution. Regions will receive more financial resources as federal member states will demand that foreign aid is directed less toward Mogadishu and more toward the regions.
-Natural Resource self-determination. Federalism will ensure that the federal member states receive the majority of the proceeds that are earned from natural resources found in their region.
-Mogadishu's relevance diminishes. Mogadishu's political power is reduced in a federal system, meaning that out-of-touch elites here will have less impact on the lives of Somali people. The city will also see less migration as greater resource and power distribution will mean that the majority of people will opt to remain in their traditional settlements rather than migrate to the capital like in Siad Barre's time.
Downsides to federalism:
-Resource disparity (some regions will be poor and dependent...particularly Galnusmudug)
Overall, the benefits outweigh the downsides!
Little neef,
You have a lot to learn. Typing from Hoyos house all day and claiming "puntland this and puntland that" makes the rest of us look terrible.
I know your YouTube trolling account: Prince of Puntland. There's a few of you I noticed and your all the same--bunch of lowlife kids making Puntlanders look terrible on the YouTube comments.
The difference between you and I on here is that I show my face and have nothing to hide.
How about you focus on saving money, growing some equity and investing in Puntland with your OWN MONEY. Quit running around posting other Puntlanders achievements when you never put the work in yourself.
I still want to take you on that flight from Bosasso to Xamaar just to see your heart rate and sweat glands swell up.
He is making me proud. Stop putting a show for others waryaa. For someone who profiled himself as rich, you do seek validation from others.
He is making me proud. Stop putting a show for others waryaa. For someone who profiled himself as rich, you do seek validation from others.
Habarti Kale, here she is.
Von
With blood and Iron will we reach the fatherland
there are lots of ways to force separatists to bend the knee to centralisation
@DR OSMAN
You need to stop rambling. Make coherent paragraphs and sentence + arguments.
And I'm not naive, Somalia won't become some utopia over time. But democracy can work just fine with qabiil, because when it comes down to it subclans only think about their own interests. Let each subclan have their own party. At that stage none of the parties will be big enough to format an actual government so they'll be forced to cooperate. Over time qabiil based politics will naturally transition over to interests based ones. And during that time frame institutions can hopefully be properly implemented and people will realise that political bickering is the only way to achieve things instead of fighting.
In fact this is the path I see Somalia taking for itself at the moment. But time will tell. Either way I'll be focused on business by that time. Just talking alot of politics online is tirering
how can interests bring you together if sharing a district won't? if you can't unite on something shared such as a constituency, how in the world are you going to unite with people based on an idealogy? you should share the same idealogy and district concerns of the person sharing your district but u dont and u see you can't even bring sacad and saleban in hobyo together!!!
I am being honest with you, your not suitable for democracy, stop trying to implement something your not fit for!!! Deep down all your trying to do is mimick the west and think copying leads to the same result!!! We have enough history to learn from the 1960s, this system is not suitable. Infact we were more united back then now, to say it didnt work in the 60s at the height of nationalism to say it will now after 30 year civil war is crazy.. Federalism is suitable but Democracy isn't!!!
The question of what sort of federalism we take is what I like to discuss!!! I think we should just go towards a tribal federation rather then creating new identities after identies to hide the true values of the somali. We try to hide under 'district' under 'party' under 'regionalism' even under 'mamul gobols'. We should discuss what type of federalism even but the question of federalism is without a doubt settled, there is no other way.
Just look how much peace and stability 4.5 brought, when people admitted and shared political power on 'reality' tribes!!! if they would've done it across party or that nonsense and a tribe didn't get a fair amount, it would be instability all over again and they will run to their proxy foreigner and form some sort of rebel group!!! Marki runta wax lagu dhiso sida 4.5 u see it's fruit of peace because they didn't try to cover it up with somalinimo, hisbi, regionalism, etc!!!
4.5 is just proof when somalis base something on what they truly 'believe' it's stability and effectiveness is seen for a long time!!! They share parliament-govt along 4.5, i say adopt that across all the regions also!!! we are not majority rules society but a consensus society!!!
Infact even if they go down a democratic road everything is going to be 4.5, all parties will need to be based on 4.5 as a law you just wait and see!!! So what's the point of parties if the makeup of it is 4.5???
Just look how much peace and stability 4.5 brought, when people admitted and shared political power on 'reality' tribes!!! if they would've done it across party or that nonsense and a tribe didn't get a fair amount, it would be instability all over again and they will run to their proxy foreigner and form some sort of rebel group!!! Marki runta wax lagu dhiso sida 4.5 u see it's fruit of peace because they didn't try to cover it up with somalinimo, hisbi, regionalism, etc!!!
4.5 is just proof when somalis base something on what they truly 'believe' it's stability and effectiveness is seen for a long time!!! They share parliament-govt along 4.5, i say adopt that across all the regions also!!! we are not majority rules society but a consensus society!!!
Infact even if they go down a democratic road everything is going to be 4.5, all parties will need to be based on 4.5 as a law you just wait and see!!! So what's the point of parties if the makeup of it is 4.5???
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The only democracy that will work for Somalia will be 2 party system where each election both heads of the parties must be from one clan and it's team 4.5!!! This will force Somalis to vote on idealogy and not along clan lines!!! Example Party A Led by Darod with a team that is 4.5...Party B led by Darod with a team of that is 4.5. Next election Party A led by Hawiye with a 4.5 team, Party B led by Hawiye with 4.5 team. But the second they start doing parties like they do in Somaliland, everyone will just vote along clan lines and it's just a fake democracy and we know where that will lead too in the end!!!
I am not saying democracy cannot work in Somalia, infact any system can work in Somalia even Islamism but it needs to address how our society is set up not base it on how western or arab world is!!! The system is just the 'bedsheet' the actual bed must be 'our cultural system'. Like Iran does it, they hae the ayatollah monitor the govt as a separate institution.
Our system needs to be backed strongly by a nomadic check n balances not western check n balances.We need strict consequences applied for anyone who breaks the constitution, rule of law, agreements, etc not the way it is now where parliament is bribed, judges bribed, police is bribed, govt is bribed, these fake institutions won't help us have confidence in the system and an opportunist politician will take advantage of that begin creating havoc in the land as he can gain support for it from the people who lost confidence in the system!!!
If we had a parliament/govt/institutions was told if you break the constitution or agreements or take bribes you will lose your seat, your mandate, the capital will be changed, govt replaced, strict punishments to encourage confidence back into the people!!! If regional govts break the constitution apply the same political punishments. If that fails, then military options, then secession options. All options to discourage breaking the system must be in our government. Right now there is no consequences and therefore anyone can do what they want!!! the second there is known consequences of 'mighty' order we will be past this crazyness and the people confidence will be restored in the nation!!!
I am not saying democracy cannot work in Somalia, infact any system can work in Somalia even Islamism but it needs to address how our society is set up not base it on how western or arab world is!!! The system is just the 'bedsheet' the actual bed must be 'our cultural system'. Like Iran does it, they hae the ayatollah monitor the govt as a separate institution.
Our system needs to be backed strongly by a nomadic check n balances not western check n balances.We need strict consequences applied for anyone who breaks the constitution, rule of law, agreements, etc not the way it is now where parliament is bribed, judges bribed, police is bribed, govt is bribed, these fake institutions won't help us have confidence in the system and an opportunist politician will take advantage of that begin creating havoc in the land as he can gain support for it from the people who lost confidence in the system!!!
If we had a parliament/govt/institutions was told if you break the constitution or agreements or take bribes you will lose your seat, your mandate, the capital will be changed, govt replaced, strict punishments to encourage confidence back into the people!!! If regional govts break the constitution apply the same political punishments. If that fails, then military options, then secession options. All options to discourage breaking the system must be in our government. Right now there is no consequences and therefore anyone can do what they want!!! the second there is known consequences of 'mighty' order we will be past this crazyness and the people confidence will be restored in the nation!!!
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