Daniel Haqiqatjou and "Red Pill"

[Omar del Sur]

in fact, while we're discussing all this... the first time I came across this "madkhali" term was years and years ago.... maybe like five years ago.... I used to be on Muslim discord servers.... and I was on this one.... and I kept seeing this "madkhali" term.... and the server was full of people trying to get me to adopt this takfiri mindset, I saw someone casually call Sheikh Fawzan a munafiq, all kinds of takfiri type rhetoric... and then I got banned because I wouldn't go along with it....

but my point is.... the connection between the "anti-Madkhali" movement and the khawarij is real.... it is not Salafi propaganda, it is very much a real thing.... if you have kids and you teach them this "anti-Madkhali" stuff and you leave them with all these "anti-Madkhali" people.... you really do have a risk of them ended up converting to khawarij ideology..... this "anti-Madkhali" stuff is really dangerous, it's more dangerous and a lot closer to khawarij ideology than I think a lot of people realize

 

[Omar del Sur]

the number one most important, most central thing to the dawah of a Muslim must be to tawheed....

this was the call of all the prophets and messengers.....

this rile up the people against the government, Marxist-like dawah..... this is not and was not the dawah of the prophets and the messengers.... they called to tawheed and maybe they established a state upon the shariah or maybe they didn't.... but the first and most primary thing is TAWHEED.....

even Musa..... what did he do?? did he every day give sermons and speeches against Firaun? did he every day rile up the people against Firaun? did he call people "Madkhali bootlicker agents" if they didn't get involved in riling the people up against Firaun?

if you study the story of Musa, that is not what happened.... that wasn't the approach with Firaun but that's how we should be with the rulers of Muslim countries?

I wish people would listen to what Sheikh Fawzan says but unfortunately the "anti-Madkhalis" are brainwashed and their "true Islam" that they are defending doesn't involve respecting and listening to the scholars

 

[Hamzza]

Wallahi @Omar del Sur you're not making much sense. I'm not familiar with this whole "Madkhali" thing but your reasoning is atrocious, to say the least.

> Attack on "Madkhali" is an attack on Salafiyah

As if Salafiyah is a monolith and not divided into 100 different factions today

>Prophet Musa(as) didn't rile up the people against the tyranny of Firaoun

As if the Israelites who were slaves can do anything to the Pharaoh and the dominant Egyptians

 

[Al hashimi]

He was given permission by Allah and this precedes Islam and the Prophet Muhammad

 

[Omar del Sur]

Wallahi @Omar del Sur you're not making much sense. I'm not familiar with this whole "Madkhali" thing but your reasoning is atrocious, to say the least.

> Attack on "Madkhali" is an attack on Salafiyah

As if Salafiyah is a monolith and not divided into 100 different factions today

>Prophet Musa(as) didn't rile up the people against the tyranny of Firaoun

As if the Israelites who were slaves can do anything to the Pharaoh and the dominant Egyptians

Salafiyyah is one thing, there are not one hundred versions of it.... just because someone claims they are Salafi does not mean they are truly Salafi....

as for what I was saying about Firaun.... this I got from Sheikh Fawzan.... listen to what Sheikh Fawzan said..... it did not come from me....

I'm going with what Sheikh Fawzan said, what you are saying is coming from you... you are my brother in din but I'm going with the scholar....

and if what I'm saying is not making sense and you think Muslims rising up and living in chaos is what makes sense, you should want for your brother and yourself the same thing.... myself I live in peace and safety and I want the same for other Muslims but if you think what is better is danger and chaos, there are many places you can go if you want danger and insecurity..... unless you want chaos and danger for others while you live comfortably in the West as Haqiqatjou does, just as Ahmed Musa Jibril was promoting the Syrian revolution from his comfy suburban home in the US

 

[NordicSomali]

Why does he care about Saudi Arabia when he lives in the epicenter of sin (USA)

 

[Omar del Sur]

another thing is if my reasoning is atrocious and I'm some sort of blathering idiot.... look, at the end of the day it would make little difference if I suffered a head injury and was reduced to a semi-vegetable state- in terms of what's being discussed.... because at the end of the day, behind my stance on all this is the backing of numerous scholars.... Sheikh Ibn Baz, Sheikh Uthaymeen, Imam Ahmed, many current living scholars.... many, many scholars are behind us who are opposing this Haqiqatjou thing... meanwhile the Haqiqatjou "anti-Madkhali" people have zero backing from scholars.......

Sheikh Ibn Baz, Sheikh Uthaymeen, Sheikh Albaani, Sheikh Fawzan have all come out in support of Sheikh Madkhali.....

forget me, I'm nobody.... I am unimportant.... people need to decide- do they want to follow the scholars or not? and if you say "to hell with the scholars" then it's your own responsibility for heading down the wrong road

 

[Omar del Sur]

I think it's funny if people don't want to follow the scholars but also want to claim they are these opposers of liberalism.... if you don't want to stick to the scholars, on a fundamental level, you and the liberals aren't that different

 

[AMusee]

Daniel has been at the forefront of confronting liberal imams like Yasir Qadhi as well as Madkhalis as they serve the same governments and liberalization attempts on Muslims.

We have not forgotten that the Madkhalis only started targeting Daniel when he condemned the government promoting Halloween, that is also when you started "warning" against him @Omar del Sur .

It is clearly in defence of a government although you try to make it look like it is part of deen.

 

[AMusee]

In fact you used to post some of these videos before he criticized MBS Halloween and liberalization project.

 

[Hamzza]

Salafiyyah is one thing, there are not one hundred versions of it.... just because someone claims they are Salafi does not mean they are truly Salafi....

as for what I was saying about Firaun.... this I got from Sheikh Fawzan.... listen to what Sheikh Fawzan said..... it did not come from me....

I'm going with what Sheikh Fawzan said, what you are saying is coming from you... you are my brother in din but I'm going with the scholar....

and if what I'm saying is not making sense and you think Muslims rising up and living in chaos is what makes sense, you should want for your brother and yourself the same thing.... myself I live in peace and safety and I want the same for other Muslims but if you think what is better is danger and chaos, there are many places you can go if you want danger and insecurity..... unless you want chaos and danger for others while you live comfortably in the West as Haqiqatjou does, just as Ahmed Musa Jibril was promoting the Syrian revolution from his comfy suburban home in the US

How can we differentiate the real Salafis from the claimants? Surely, if Imam Mohammed ibn Abdul Wahhab was alive today, the Madkhalis would have called him "Khariji" and other names for not tolerating the Bidah and other deviancy happening in the land. Of all factions attributing themselves to Salafiyah today, the Madkhalis are the farthest from the path of Imam Mohammed ibn Abdul Wahhab.

Ah, I apologize I thought it was you who made this example. I watched Sheikh Al-Fawzan's video and his analogy doesn't look good to me.

Allah ﷻ said to Prophets Musa & Haroun, speak mildly to the Pharaoh because Firaoun in his first time hearing the message was from the " Al-Mu'allafatu Qulubuhum"(the prophet ﷺ used to give alms and spoils of war to these people, so they maybe attracted to Islam). An already Muslim ruler is different from this.

Also, @Omar del Sur I haven't seen anyone calling for chaos and revolutions this is all some weak and pathetic excuses to defend the transgression of Mbs.

Allah ﷻ said this Ummah is the best ever because they enjoin Ma'ruf and forbid Munkar. The Madkhalis(defenders of Mbs and similar Tawaqit) want to erase the two qualities that made us the best.

 

[Hamzza]

another thing is if my reasoning is atrocious and I'm some sort of blathering idiot.... look, at the end of the day it would make little difference if I suffered a head injury and was reduced to a semi-vegetable state- in terms of what's being discussed.... because at the end of the day, behind my stance on all this is the backing of numerous scholars.... Sheikh Ibn Baz, Sheikh Uthaymeen, Imam Ahmed, many current living scholars.... many, many scholars are behind us who are opposing this Haqiqatjou thing... meanwhile the Haqiqatjou "anti-Madkhali" people have zero backing from scholars.......

Sheikh Ibn Baz, Sheikh Uthaymeen, Sheikh Albaani, Sheikh Fawzan have all come out in support of Sheikh Madkhali.....

forget me, I'm nobody.... I am unimportant.... people need to decide- do they want to follow the scholars or not? and if you say "to hell with the scholars" then it's your own responsibility for heading down the wrong road

Again, your reasoning is bad and you're contradicting yourself.

Why do you follow and defend Imam Mohammed ibn Abdul Wahhab when 99% of the Ulema at his time including his father and brother strongly condemned his message?

 

[Omar del Sur]

Daniel has been at the forefront of confronting liberal imams like Yasir Qadhi as well as Madkhalis as they serve the same governments and liberalization attempts on Muslims.

We have not forgotten that the Madkhalis only started targeting Daniel when he condemned the government promoting Halloween, that is also when you started "warning" against him @Omar del Sur .

It is clearly in defence of a government although you try to make it look like it is part of deen.

For those who are reading, I'll get to what Hamza said later insha'Allah.

With AMusee if you respond I might not reply, I have a lot going on.

To answer very briefly, I think Haqiqatjou did a lot of good work in exposing the likes of Yasir Qadhi.

"Daniel has been at the forefront of confronting liberal imams like Yasir Qadhi as well as Madkhalis as they serve the same governments and liberalization attempts on Muslims."

ok so we should sit back and ignore it when he tries to promote khawarij type ideology?

because he said liberals are bad? fox news says stuff about liberals but I don't support fox news. that he talks against liberalism- I think like half the West talks against liberalism, a lot of people talk against liberalism. his anti-liberalism stuff isn't something super special.

he did have some good stuff exposing Yasir Qadhi. his content shifted, he went from focusing on Yasir Qadhi types to being much more focused on grooming his audience towards adopting khawarij type ideology.

yes, a lot of people turned on him because of this shift, rightfully so. I was already uncomfortable with all the "anti-Madkhali" stuff but I started openly talking against him I think when NasirAlHanbali started talking against him. I met NasirAlHanbali and I learned from him in real life, he is a person who has a lot of knowledge. so I follow a lot of what he says.

 

[Omar del Sur]

also pretty much every khawarij group obsessively rants about Saudi Arabia.... so according to your logic, @AMusee, if I criticize basically any khawarij group you can say "see? Omar is an agent for Saudi Arabia"....

I was and still am very much an anti-vaxer.... Saudi was very strict with carrying out vaccine mandates... if Saudi was paying me money, I would have been shilling for the vax... instead I was and still am an anti-vax person who spoke against the vaccine

 

[Omar del Sur]

Again, your reasoning is bad and you're contradicting yourself.

Why do you follow and defend Imam Mohammed ibn Abdul Wahhab when 99% of the Ulema at his time including his father and brother strongly condemned his message?

Who were the major scholars who condemned him? The Sufi scholars of the Ottomans? The shia leadership? The local grave-worshippers where he lived?

I don't think the scholars of ahlus sunnah were against him.

 

[Omar del Sur]

How can we differentiate the real Salafis from the claimants? Surely, if Imam Mohammed ibn Abdul Wahhab was alive today, the Madkhalis would have called him "Khariji" and other names for not tolerating the Bidah and other deviancy happening in the land. Of all factions attributing themselves to Salafiyah today, the Madkhalis are the farthest from the path of Imam Mohammed ibn Abdul Wahhab.

Contrary to how khariji as well as anti-Salafi elements try to portray Sheikh Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab, he was not some khawarij type. He lived outside of Ottoman territory and he never spoke out against the Ottomans. There is plenty from the Ottomans to criticize so by "anti-Madkhali" standards he was a "Madkhali"... unless those standards only apply to Saudi for some reason.

Ah, I apologize I thought it was you who made this example. I watched Sheikh Al-Fawzan's video and his analogy doesn't look good to me.

Allah ﷻ said to Prophets Musa & Haroun, speak mildly to the Pharaoh because Firaoun in his first time hearing the message was from the " Al-Mu'allafatu Qulubuhum"(the prophet ﷺ used to give alms and spoils of war to these people, so they maybe attracted to Islam). An already Muslim ruler is different from this.

I mean at least you're not openly making takfir on Sheikh Fawzan like some other "anti-Madkhalis" apparently do... but..... I'm going with what Sheikh Fawzan says over what anyone on here says

Allah ﷻ said this Ummah is the best ever because they enjoin Ma'ruf and forbid Munkar. The Madkhalis(defenders of Mbs and similar Tawaqit) want to erase the two qualities that made us the best.

you can't just interpret the Quran however. that ayah in the Quran isn't doesn't mean we should be publically ranting about the governments of Muslim countries

 

[Hamzza]

I mean at least you're not openly making takfir on Sheikh Fawzan like some other "anti-Madkhalis" apparently do...

I'm not anti-Madkhali. I'm not anti-Saudi. I just think the policies of the current ruler of Saudi Arabia are dangerous to the Ummah and should be called out.

but..... I'm going with what Sheikh Fawzan says over what anyone on here says

Your statement is very anti-intellectual and indicates brainwashing. You become Muslim because Islam made more sense to you, so I would advise you my Muslim brother to take what looks right to you whether be said by a simple layman or the most learned Sheikh. You're not following the Sheikh to his grave.

you can't just interpret the Quran however. that ayah in the Quran isn't doesn't mean we should be publically ranting about the governments of Muslim countries

This is the universal interpretation of the Ayah. The Ulema as well as the layman should forbid, condemn and discourage Munkar. The prophet ﷺ said:

من رأى منكم منكرًا فليغيره بيده ، فإن لم يستطع فبلسانه، فإن لم يستطع فبقلبه وذلك أضعف الإيمان
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"Whoever amongst you sees an evil, he must change it with his hand; if he is unable to do so, then with his tongue; and if he is unable to do so, then with his heart; and that is the weakest form of Faith".

You see @Omar del Sur this is connected to faith. The stuff Mbs is promoting is the worst of evil and he declared his country to be not Salafi anymore. If you really like Salafiyah you should hate Mbs because he is the biggest enemy of Salafism.

 

[Omar del Sur]

@Hamzza I see that you've posted. I haven't read your post and for the time being I don't plan on reading responses to this thread right now. I have some stuff I want to work on and right now I want to focus on what I have in mind.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Honestly I don't think I'm going to debate the pro-Haqiqatjou element any further.

Wallahi I think all of these of people are following their desires.

I don't even want to compare their position to flat-earthers. I think flat-earthers have a much more reasonable position.

There is zero basis from the Quran and Sunnah or from the works of the classical scholars or of any scholars for "our dawah should be centered around ranting about the government of Saudi Arabia and anyone who doesn't want to join us in doing so we shall insult and call a 'Madkhali' bootlicker".

There's as much evidence for this as "ya Ali" or for that thing some people do in Turkey where they twirl around in those outfits.

You don't have any evidence, you don't have any scholars, you are following your desires, you are a national security threat to Muslim countries and, contrary to the false rhetoric of being true Islam defenders, you people are used by the kaffirs to destabilize Muslim countries.

 

[Omar del Sur]

People, listen to what the Sheikh has to say here:



what he is saying is very clearly true, no matter how much people try to attack this guy. whether you like him or not and regardless of whatever it is you think about him, what he is saying is very clearly the truth.

these same "anti-Madkhali" people who accuse us of being agents because we don't agree with them.... they make this accusation and meanwhile NATO was using air strikes to help these people out in Libya



it was only like ten years ago that the West used these people to destroy Libya.