Dumaal ( marrying your deceased brother's wife) gone wrong. The man that was believed to be dead

[VixR]

Instead of underlining the toxicity of qabil, the root reason for the boy's death, if that was indeed the reason for the boy having been killed, you are promoting screwing your blood brothers dead wives as the antidote to that poor boy's death.

You folk r beyond beyond.

 

[Tramo]

No one had to "reduce" it to sex, you've already done so. It's already apparent in the custom, otherwise you don't need to marry, i.e, fxck, your dead brother's wife to support his orphans.

No, I do not think you should marry a woman your brother divorced, what the fxck. Are there no other women in your village or the world at large?

yes you have sex with ur dead brother's wife, but it's not the end game...idk why ur so fixated on that. even if he was marrying her purely so he could f*ck her, who really gives a shit? you act like this is incest or some shit, c'mon Vix. u act like the brother is always laying in wait ready to swoop in. it's usually something that's done begrudgingly, and isnt all that common anyway. it's not compulsory at all and nobody here is advocating for it, but it's not some abhorrent shit either and looking down on ppl because of this innocuous cultural practice isnt on

so can u think of any rational reason why someone who's already screwing the dead man's wife, would abstain from diddling his brother's daughters?

uh a couple actually. 1) that's his niece, she's blood...not some lady who was a stranger to him at 1 point. not even comparable. and 2.) it's forbidden in islam to marry your brother's daughter. this weird slippery slope might exist among cadaan ppl but best believe it's not part of somali culture. there's no barrier that's broken at all. besides, according to stats, the majority of child molesters are not related to the victim anyway so the chances of being molested by a strange man brought into the household are actually twice as high

and @angrycat 's point about gay ppl is a salient one. gay ppl getting married is all gucci cuz they're consenting adults but 2 unrelated consenting adults can't get married because they were in-laws at one point? even though the main purpose of the marriage transcends the relationship between the man and the woman?

 

[Gibiin-Udug]

So you're airing out your dad and paternal uncles lack of relationship just to make a point on a forum?


Oh well I will keep sipping!

 

[VixR]

You know damn well what @angrycat stipulated with her I don't know what kind of relationship u had with ur uncles but my uncles bs, so I felt compelled to clear that up and laid it out without any deets for you to "sip" anyway. Excuse me if id I prefer u know about that nonexistent relationship than for u to operate on the level that was insinuated.

But honestly, if this is an example of your grasp of brotherhood and honor in this culture, I can't at all blame him and trust his judgment thoroughly.

 

[madamelioness]

@VixR , it was a necessary practice to provide a safety net for the widow and the children. There is no such thing as government assistance for people living a nomadic lifestyle. The only way the widow and the children can be supported is via marriage and cementing a famililal relationship. Usually the brother stepping up is actually much younger than the widow so it is not like he is marrying a young sexy wife. It also works the other way round too, the sister marries her deceased sister's husband and it's called xigsiisan. Who is the best person to care for those children if not their habaryar ama adeer? It is also a way of preserving inheritance and wealth. I think the practice is dying out now but it served a noble purpose.

Some of you posting here in sheer disgust probably wouldn't be here if dumaal wasn't practiced somewhere along your family tree.

It isn't as disgusting and sex-oriented as you make it sound. Soomaalida is yeelyeelo oo wax eysan aheyn iska dhigaan aan la yaaba. You didn't even know the practice existed before this thread and to what end but you think you can critique it because of course the cadaan way is best.

 

[VixR]

@madamelioness Your justifications don't reach. Sorry, I tried, but it really makes no sense, morally or otherwise, esp if familial wellbeing and the maintainence of healthy, honorable family relationships and barriers are of prime importance over immaterial things. More so, I think the practice is absolutely disgusting, disturbing and egregious to the nth degree.

 

[VixR]

If you're gonna screw your dead sister's husband or dead brother's wife, screw them while they're still alive, at least then u have some diig if not honor! But to pass siblings off one after the other like a some kind of human supply chain farm after their brother/sister's spouse and the father or mother of their children's is dead and buried, with no honor, thought for barriers and healthy families, but the exchanging of sex with your own in-laws for the 'protection' of their own nephews and nieces, how disgustingly reprehensible.

 

[madamelioness]

@madamelioness Your justifications don't reach. Sorry, I tried, but it really makes no sense, morally or otherwise, for familial wellbeing and proper, healthy family relationships and barriers. More so, I think the practice is absolutely disgusting, disturbing and egregious to the nth degree.

I'm not asking you to understand but do get off your high horse and stop looking down on a practice you have next to no knowledge about and the context in which it was practiced. Not sure, why you're making it sound incestual and if maybe you looked beyond the conjugal relations you might start to understand it. You're looking at it with your Western lenses and focusing on the sex aspect of it only. It also isn't just practiced by Somalis alone but all over East Africa.

To you it's morally just for two men to have sexual relations but a man cannot marry his brother's widow and look after the children in the harsh nomadic climate?

I don't think @angrycat was insinuating that about your family but it is extremely weird to suggest an uncle would molest his niece/nephew but it is more likely to happen with a stepfather.

 

[Grigori Rasputin]

Where in Islam does it say this explicitly? I understand it's not one of the listed haram prospects in that one aya, all of which listed in the Quran are basically "duhs", immediate family members no sane person would even entertain sleeping with in the first place. I've honestly never heard of this being a thing 'til now, and it is absolutely not a necessity for a brother-in-law to take on his dead brother's wife in order for the tribal system to recognize and help it's widows and orphaned children, or for the family, including the in-laws, to help one of it's immediate members.

The justifications are pure nonsense and transparent, it's all too obvious.

How prevalent is this?

How old are you ?

"This is the first time I heard this"

"Where is this in Islam"

 

[Grigori Rasputin]

i dont get how it's even betrayal if the brother is deceased? if anything, it's loyalty

i look at it as the brother taking one for the team

Great point! It's actually the ultimate loyalty because usually the wife can be unattractive and the brother suppresses his desires by going ahead with this. He is also assuming a further burden, one which he never wished upon himself. This is an ultimate sacrifice.

 

[Hafez]

@VixR why is it ok for another man to marry the widow (and have intercourse with her) but not the brother of her dead husband (whom she also has no blood relations with)? And what's with the moral outrage? I thought atheist don't believe in objective morality (one of your own folk called Lawrence Krauss believes there's nothing wrong with incest as long as contraception is used kkkk). For atheists, it's all about science and from the perspective of science, there's nothing wrong with dumaal.

I personally wouldn't do this (dumaal) since my way of thinking has been influenced by my upbringing in the West, laakin there's no need to bash others who do want to practice this. They just have a different outlook to life and it's permissible for them in Islam.


P.S. you make it seem as if the brother of the husband is actively seeking the opportunity to poach the wife of his brother like some bandit when that's not the case. Most of the times, the wife is at least over 35 years old and is no longer as desirable (physically) as she may have been.

 

[VixR]

@VixR why is it ok for another man to marry the widow (and have intercourse with her) but not the brother of her dead husband (whom she also has no blood relations with)? And what's with the moral outrage? I thought atheist don't believe in objective morality (one of your own folk called Lawrence Krauss believes there's nothing wrong with incest as long as contraception is used kkkk). For atheists, it's all about science and from the perspective of science, there's nothing wrong with dumaal.

I personally wouldn't do this (dumaal) since my way of thinking has been influenced by my upbringing in the West, laakin there's no need to bash others who do want to practice this. They just have a different outlook to life and it's permissible for them in Islam.


P.S. you make it seem as if the brother of the husband is actively seeking the opportunity to poach the wife of his brother like some bandit when that's not the case. Most of the times, the wife is at least over 35 years old and is no longer as desirable (physically) as she may have been.

Don't ever speak for me.

As for this:

@VixR[/USER] why is it ok for another man to marry the widow (and have intercourse with her) but not the brother of her dead husband (whom she also has no blood relations with)?

Because he's her DEAD HUSBAND AND FATHER OF HER CHILDREN'S BROTHER.

Does kinship mean absolutely nothing to u ppl!?

Clearly NOT.

Your brother is cold in the ground, and here u are atop the woman who was his wife and bore him children bartering 'protection' for sex, you blathering idiot.

 

[supz]

Don't ever speak for me.

As for this:
Because he's her DEAD HUSBAND AND FATHER OF HER CHILDREN'S BROTHER.

Does kinship mean absolutely nothing to u ppl!?

Clearly NOT.

Your brother is cold in the ground, and here u are atop the woman who was his wife and bore him children bartering 'protection' for sex, you blathering idiot.

I agree to a certain extent to your sentiments. However, the widow and the dead husbands brother are not related in any way. This seems controversial to you and many others including myself purely due to cultural clashes. I wouldn't insinuate or nuance that this matrimony is "morally wrong" as it would come from an arrogant plane of thought.

 

[VixR]

I agree to a certain extent to your sentiments. However, the widow and the dead husbands brother are not related in any way. This seems controversial to you and many others including myself purely due to cultural clashes. I wouldn't insinuate or nuance that this matrimony is "morally wrong" as it would come from an arrogant plane of thought.

Well, then that makes me arrogant. And I'm prefectly happy to be.

@Hafez I saw ur deleted comment, u cowardly shitbag. Maybe in your accursed family shit like that flies!

 

[Hafez]

Well, then that makes me arrogant. And I'm prefectly happy to be.

@Hafez I saw ur deleted comment, u cowardly shitbag. Maybe in your accursed family shit like that flies!

 

[Grigori Rasputin]

Folks! She's a minor, we have wasted our time reasoning with aqli-gaab dhocil

 

[VixR]

Keep calm and listen to this kid that I pretty much raised in the hood kkkk.

I've been theorizing. Does this custom possibly come from literally having too many children or siblings to fxcking care, or have genuine feelings or decorum for each other at some point? Maybe that would explain why u view your own blood like disposables, literally worse than one would treat oinks on a pig farm. Even when they breed animals in zoos, they don't crossbreed sibling pairings.

 

[Tramo]

I've been theorizing. Does this custom possibly come from literally having too many children or siblings to fxcking care, or have genuine feelings or decorum for each other at some point? Maybe that would explain why u view your own blood like disposables, literally worse than one would treat oinks on a pig farm. Even when they breed animals in zoos, they don't crossbreed sibling pairings.

why are u still theorizing? it's already been explained where this custom comes from yo

ur working backwards from ur conclusion (ie: eww fucking ur sister in law) and making all of the wrong assumptions and flawed reasoning that usually follows when doing that, all the while trashing ur culture and everyone who's ever practiced it

one of my best friends parents are in this kinda relationship and his uncle is one of the best people you'll ever meet and worked hard to raise his brother's family from the jump. i used to look at him and think damn, i wonder if i'd make that kind of sacrifice for my brother

but i mean according to u he's a backstabbing, incestuous animal because he committed the horrible crime of marrying his former sister in law after his brother passed (something that's usually done with the blessing of said brother anyway. something u would have known if u bothered to find out more about the custom before jumping to all ur conclusions)

 

[VixR]

why are u still theorizing? it's already been explained where this custom comes from yo

ur working backwards from ur conclusion (ie: eww fucking ur sister in law) and making all of the wrong assumptions and flawed reasoning that usually follows when doing that, all the while trashing ur culture and everyone who's ever practiced it

one of my best friends parents are in this kinda relationship and his uncle is one of the best people you'll ever meet and worked hard to raise his brother's family from the jump. i used to look at him and think damn, i wonder if i'd make that kind of sacrifice for my brother

but i mean according to u he's a backstabbing, incestuous animal because he committed the horrible crime of marrying his former sister in law after his brother passed (something that's usually done with the blessing of said brother anyway. something u would have known if u bothered to find out more about the custom before jumping to all ur conclusions)

I don't want to address you. I like u. I do understand how u may feel the need to defend your best friend's family shenanigans, but why u feel the need to actually support this despicable custom that makes no damn sense, I do not.

I'm theorizing bc I'm genuinely disturbed.

 

[Hafez]

I've been theorizing. Does this custom possibly come from literally having too many children or siblings to fxcking care, or have genuine feelings or decorum for each other at some point? Maybe that would explain why u view your own blood like disposables, literally worse than one would treat oinks on a pig farm. Even when they breed animals in zoos, they don't crossbreed sibling pairings.

Then stop theorizing and shut the f*ck up. You're not Karl Marx.