Earliest mention of Somali

[Zak12]

I know most say the first mention of the name "Somali" was in the 15th century in a hymm by Emperor Yeshaq but I recalled the Chinese mentioning Somali by name even earlier but I can't find the source.

 

[wonyluvr]

I know most say the first mention of the name "Somali" was in the 14th century by Emperor Yeshaq but I recalled the Chinese mentioning Somali by name even earlier but I can't find the source.

I remember it as well

 

[wonyluvr]

I know most say the first mention of the name "Somali" was in the 14th century by Emperor Yeshaq but I recalled the Chinese mentioning Somali by name even earlier but I can't find the source.

I asked @Khaemwaset last time
Idrus come here

 

[mah14]

The earliest mention of the word Somali was in an Arabic book that I remember seeing a while ago.

 

[Khaem]

I asked @Khaemwaset last time
Idrus come here

I know most say the first mention of the name "Somali" was in the 15th century in a hymm by Emperor Yeshaq but I recalled the Chinese mentioning Somali by name even earlier but I can't find the source.

Earliest mention of Somali was by Chinese in the 990s who wrote about the "Samalan Kingdom" with its capital based around zelia there's a thread

Chinese (Song Dynasty) Trade Mission In Somalia (995-1081)

Yes but they weren't waaqists the imam sent an expedition to argubba (argobbas) in dawaro to islamize them Those same people will tell you today they were walashama Argobbas? Same niggas that claim they’re banu Hashim weren’t even Muslims 490 years ago? 😂😂😂😂 Also one of those screenshots...

www.somalispot.com

 

[oogabooga]

Earliest mention of Somali was by Chinese in the 990s who wrote about the "Samalan Kingdom" with its capital based around zelia there's a thread

Chinese (Song Dynasty) Trade Mission In Somalia (995-1081)

Yes but they weren't waaqists the imam sent an expedition to argubba (argobbas) in dawaro to islamize them Those same people will tell you today they were walashama Argobbas? Same niggas that claim they’re banu Hashim weren’t even Muslims 490 years ago? 😂😂😂😂 Also one of those screenshots...

www.somalispot.com

That’s goofy, that text doesn’t say Somali or Samale. It’s clearly pronounced Sān Malan, the same way they pronounced Zeila correctly. Sān is the Harari root word of the following words: Sāni (which means “straight”), wassāñ (which means “select(as an adjective)/special” like “wassan usu” meaning select people/select few), and Sāñi (which means “ironsmith”). My guess is that Sān is a metal. Malan is a noun version of the word Mala’a (another example is hegana which means to replace). So San Malan would mean “the metal-filled kingdom” referring to the metalworking nature of the kingdom. Makes sense as the old Harla ruins found metalworking workshops present as well metal mines. Even places like Sim in Futuh are tied to metals in the Harari language, as is the case with Simmet (figurately meaning “something of value” but literally meaning “the silver of Sim”). Lots of old Harari words are lost but their remains still exist.

 

[Khaem]

That’s goofy, that text doesn’t say Somali or Samale. It’s clearly pronounced Sān Malan, the same way they pronounced Zeila correctly. Sān is the Harari root word of the following words: Sāni (which means “straight”), wassāñ (which means “select(as an adjective)/special” like “wassan usu” meaning select people/select few), and Sāñi (which means “ironsmith”). My guess is that Sān is a metal. Malan is a noun version of the word Mala’a (another example is hegana which means to replace). So San Malan would mean “the metal-filled kingdom” referring to the metalworking nature of the kingdom. Makes sense as the old Harla ruins found metalworking workshops present as well metal mines. Even places like Sim in Futuh are tied to metals in the Harari language, as is the case with Simmet (figurately meaning “something of value” but literally meaning “the silver of Sim”). Lots of old Harari words are lost but their remains still exist.

Harari didn't exist until after the Futuh when Nur ibn Mujahid built the walls of Harar in the late 1500s get this goofy suugo science off my screen warya

 

[Khaem]

That’s goofy, that text doesn’t say Somali or Samale. It’s clearly pronounced Sān Malan, the same way they pronounced Zeila correctly. Sān is the Harari root word of the following words: Sāni (which means “straight”), wassāñ (which means “select(as an adjective)/special” like “wassan usu” meaning select people/select few), and Sāñi (which means “ironsmith”). My guess is that Sān is a metal. Malan is a noun version of the word Mala’a (another example is hegana which means to replace). So San Malan would mean “the metal-filled kingdom” referring to the metalworking nature of the kingdom. Makes sense as the old Harla ruins found metalworking workshops present as well metal mines. Even places like Sim in Futuh are tied to metals in the Harari language, as is the case with Simmet (figurately meaning “something of value” but literally meaning “the silver of Sim”). Lots of old Harari words are lost but their remains still exist.

This is breaking new if i've ever seen one, tell me I'm not dreaming did the text really call them samathi? Samathi here is most certainly samali which would be the oldest mention of the name somali in history so far. Furthermore in another text they were literally called samalan Kingdom, this is crazy. It also mentioned mogadishu which would be the oldest mention of the name, they travelled along side zeila oman and egypt. A later account of aden would also mention zeila and mogadishu merchant traveling to yemen and till this day you'd find people in yemen from clans named maqadisha and zeila'a among the yemenis. Relationship between somali ports must've been very strong. Now we could confidently say that the name somali is a millennia old name if not older. This was long before ifat was born which is really significant.

Also i remember reading about some omani sailors of this time period hailing those of them who've travelled all the way to china through the sea as celebrated adventurers and here we've got a somali merchant ship casually sailing to the chinese court with trade product such as ivory frankincense etc probably acquired from different somali port. Somali navigation must've been advanced specially since they would've travelled to china before the invention of the compass. They were as good of a sailer as any other arab or persian sailor who've travelled to china. This also means that there were ship building tradition throughout the somali coast be it north or south.

This would have to rewrite much of what we know about somali trade in the indian ocean. If somali merchant fleets made it all the way to china what about indonesia or closer yet indian? Somalis weren't a small player on the world stage there must be more account of somali merchant all over the indian ocean. I wonder is it possible that there were even older record of somali merchant in china? When did it really began they must of been familiar with the sea route before their arrival it also said another zeila ship which means there must've been others that made it there. Muslim presence in guangzhou dates back to 7th-8th century so we might find even older account of somali sailors in chinese account.

Nothing magical really. All i did is using search alongside google translate and bit of intuition.
Here is the first link.

Li shi xue

www.google.se

Text says

早在八世纪,中国已和泽拉港通航,当时在贾耽( 730 年— 805 年)记录的航线中叫三兰国,被当作印度洋西部地区中国帆船航线最南的终点港。所以三麻兰国的中心是泽拉。

Translation:



Romanization of the kingdom.

三麻兰国的中心是泽拉。

Sān má lán guó de zhōngxīn shì zé lā.

The center of the Sammaran/sammalan Kingdom is Zela.

 

[oogabooga]

Harari didn't exist until after the Futuh when Nur ibn Mujahid built the walls of Harar in the late 1500s get this goofy suugo science off my screen warya

Languages don’t spawn into existence the same way video game characters do. Hararis have family trees that go back before 1500s.

 

[oogabooga]

lol Samathi is the biggest suugo science here, read the romanization of the Madarin text (I double checked it as well). It says Saan Malan same way it says Zeila.

 

[Khaem]

Languages don’t spawn into existence the same way video game characters do. Hararis have family trees that go back before 1500s.

Harari is literally a combination of several groups, including Somali, that became an identity in the 16-17th century. What is found in the Harari language means little in a conversation about Chinese mandarin texts about Somalia in the 990s. You're whole post was a bunch of suugo science with nothing to back it up, just vibes n shit.

 

[Khaem]

lol Samathi is the biggest suugo science here, read the romanization of the Madarin text (I double checked it as well). It says Saan Malan same way it says Zeila.

Reading a Chinese source talking about the region we know as Somalia, mentioning an important Somali city like Zelia. And then looking at the Mandarin name the Chinese call the inhabitants, naturally you'd find a link between Samalan/Samathi and the word Somali.

However there is nothing in the text or archeology that makes modern Hararis and their mutt language relevant in this discussion

 

[oogabooga]

Harari is literally a combination of several groups, including Somali, that became an identity in the 16-17th century. What is found in the Harari language means little in a conversation about Chinese mandarin texts about Somalia in the 990s. You're whole post was a bunch of suugo science with nothing to back it up, just vibes n shit.

Yeah we just happened to be formed by mixing everyone into one and have our own distinct language. You sound like an atheist that says the universe started with a boom. My post wasn’t suugo science, in fact it was much more logical than whatever you proposed. I’m sorry the Harari language is so small it isn’t documented in detail.

 

[oogabooga]

Reading a Chinese source talking about the region we know as Somalia, mentioning an important Somali city like Zelia. And then looking at the Mandarin name the Chinese call the inhabitants, naturally you'd find a link between Samalan/Samathi and the word Somali.

However there is nothing in the text or archeology that makes modern Hararis and their mutt language relevant in this discussion

u were telling me my post was just vibes but what is this? U are literally doing word-bending like the avatar or something. Suugo science detected. Zero logic, just vibes. Bro I told you, the Chinese literally said “San Malan.” He pronounced Zeila correctly meaning u can’t word-bend the word that doesn’t align to your thinking.

me understanding what the Chinese author had to say makes me relevant. The Harari language is super relevant to the Horn, not some “boom-pow-woosh” out of thin air language you say it is.

 

[Khaem]

Yeah we just happened to be formed by mixing everyone into one and have our own distinct language. You sound like an atheist that says the universe started with a boom. My post wasn’t suugo science, in fact it was much more logical than whatever you proposed. I’m sorry the Harari language is so small it isn’t documented in detail.

So you're not even a Somali but some Harari inserting your mutt tounge into this discussion with suugo science

I struggle to see how a Chinese text talking about 990s Somalia and then connecting thr Chinese word for the region - Samathi - to our word Somali, is some mind blowing concept to you.

So much so that you believe that a more plausible explanation lies in some mutt language that appeared 700 years after this text, which btw also has been influenced by Somali, and is a small "ethnicity" in the hinterlands of the horn. Which these Chinese merchants would've never interacted with. But yes, you are right.

 

[Khaem]

u were telling me my post was just vibes but what is this? U are literally doing word-bending like the avatar or something. Suugo science detected. Zero logic, just vibes. Bro I told you, the Chinese literally said “San Malan.” He pronounced Zeila correctly meaning u can’t word-bend the word that doesn’t align to your thinking.

me understanding what the Chinese author had to say makes me relevant. The Harari language is super relevant to the Horn, not some “boom-pow-woosh” out of thin air language you say it is.

Harari is not relevant to a text talking about coastal Somalia 700 years before the Hararis came about.

And even after the appearance of Harari as a distinct identity, they were never important in the horn as a whole. Harari is the product of horners like Somalis, Amhara, Afar and later Oromo interacting with each other in a metropolitan over the centuries

 

[oogabooga]

So you're not even a Somali but some Harari inserting your mutt tounge into this discussion with suugo science

I struggle to see how a Chinese text talking about 990s Somalia and then connecting thr Chinese word for the region - Samathi - to our word Somali, is some mind blowing concept to you.

So much so that you believe that a more plausible explanation lies in some mutt language that appeared 700 years after this text, which btw also has been influenced by Somali, and is a small "ethnicity" in the hinterlands of the horn. Which these Chinese merchants would've never interacted with. But yes, you are right.

Again, use your brain. If the Chinese author pronounced Zeila correctly, then he most likely pronounced San Malan correctly as well. Hence, it can’t be Somali/Samaali.

It’s much more plausible considering how Harar and Hararis have a rich agricultural and sedentary culture. Harar is so different from the rest of Somalia in culture and language (and the only city in the whole region) that existed for a long time outside of Mogadishu. Hararis are older than 1500s as is evident with our language and our way of life. And a matter of fact, they did find Chinese coins in the farms nearby Harar so that’s kind of a coincidence?

 

[oogabooga]

Harari is not relevant to a text talking about coastal Somalia 700 years before the Hararis came about.

And even after the appearance of Harari as a distinct identity, they were never important in the horn as a whole. Harari is the product of horners like Somalis, Amhara, Afar and later Oromo interacting with each other in a metropolitan over the centuries

You are calling us a mix of different ethnic groups yet you don’t present proof. Can you please present proof before making such outlandish claims?

 

[Zak12]

Alright I found some Chinese sources dating to the 9th and 12th century respectively that mention a place called "Popali" and "Pipalo" which may very well be the Chinese pronunciation of Barbari, the premodern name for Somalis. Judging from the description of the region, it fits well with Somalia

 

[Emir of Zayla]

Sān is the Harari root word of the following words: Sāni (which means “straight”), wassāñ (which means “select(as an adjective)/special” like “wassan usu” meaning select people/select few), and Sāñi (which means “ironsmith”). My guess is that Sān is a metal. Malan is a noun version of the word Mala’a (another example is hegana which means to replace). So San Malan would mean “the metal-filled kingdom” referring to the metalworking nature of the kingdom.

I highly doubt this, prove it by linking a Harari dictionary and screenshotting each of the definitions of these words.