English should not be taught to Somalis/Muslims

[Angelina]

I think you are attributing something to me falsely. I did not say Sheikh Uthaymeen advocated banning English. I simply quoted his words and let him speak for himself.

He did say though: "It was narrated that the salaf forbade speaking in the tongues of the non-Arabs.". So it's not an unacceptable view to be opposed to English.

My issue isn’t opposing English, it’s banning it on an educational level is my point. We live in a globalized world, hence many will need it but as long as Arabic and Somali is championed and people are installed pride in those tongues, banning wouldn’t be needed.

Also I don't think anyone here is talking about using the power of the state to ban English in the sense of things like arresting people for using English. OP specifically said he wasn't talking about that.

I have no issues with being opposed to English replacing Arabic or people’s native tongue. I too would be opposed to that and that is what the Fatwa is talking about.

A good curriculum would put Somali and Arabic as a core subject in which students are subjected to rigorous testing that is heavily part of graduate requirements. Other foreign languages can be reduced to elective subjects and be taught once a week, rather than 6 lessons a week.

The OP did reply to someone about banning it on a state level and that is what influenced my post.

Also, if we look at the deen aspect and look at Islamqa, the discouragement of speaking other languages apart from Arabic isn’t limited to Western non Muslim languages, it also extends to native languages that are also spoken by current Muslim populations like Berber, Farsi and Somali would obviously be part of this. Therefore, technically, according to Islamqa, even our native Af-Somaali needs to be replaced. I don’t know how OP will come to terms with the fact that the measures he is proposing should be used supposedly against Somali. Reading the Islamqa fatwa was indeed interesting.


Let me add, the fact that a lot of Muslim countries have still been able to retain their native tongues shows that languages were never banned on a state level. They were gradually faded out by implementing a strategy in which Arabic became the Lingua franca. Moroccans and Algerians now predominantly speaking Arabic, but many still speak Berber which illustrates that early Islamic rulers tended to allow people to do their own thing as long as actual Sharia laws weren’t broken.

It’s an interesting topic indeed.

 

[Angelina]

you read the Communist Manifesto??? and Engels?

well that is cool that you read. what are some interesting books you've read?

With regards to communism that is it to be honest. It was tedious and I did find it a little bit boring. Engles talking about the horrifying conditions of Manchester in the 1800s was interesting which is probably what influenced their ideollgy

I don't like stuff like the Communist Manifesto but I do read books by non-Muslim authors myself so I feel it would be wrong to make a big issue. although personally I hate the Communist Manifesto because it is so inherently opposed to Islam.

Yep, it is. They believe if I remember correctly that religion is the opium of the masses. They’re against any sort of organized religion. That is why most Muslim societies that were took over by the soviets tend to be very secular as during the Soviet union, religion was banned and penalties were put in place.

Fun fact: Sheikh Albani, whose father was a Hanafi Scholar in the early 1900s left Albani which came under communist rule and moved to Jordan.

anyways, I would not be against someone talking about women's rights from an Islamic standpoint and being concerned with women's issues. that's not a problem. but I have read some of your posts and felt that it was influenced by feminist ideology rather than from a purely Islamic basis. wallahi I don't object to looking at women's rights from an Islamic basis. and if you really are looking at things from a purely Islamic standpoint then may Allah grant success to your endeavor.

however I do feel that some of the stuff has not been in line with Islam and that is what has bothered me.

 

[reer]

My issue isn’t opposing English, it’s banning it on an educational level is my point. We live in a globalized world, hence many will need it but as long as Arabic and Somali is championed and people are installed pride in those tongues, banning wouldn’t be needed.

I have no issues with being opposed to English replacing Arabic or people’s native tongue. I too would be opposed to that and that is what the Fatwa is talking about.

A good curriculum would put Somali and Arabic as a core subject in which students are subjected to rigorous testing that is heavily part of graduate requirements. Other foreign languages can be reduced to elective subjects and be taught once a week, rather than 6 lessons a week.

The OP did reply to someone about banning it on a state level and that is what influenced my post.

Also, if we look at the deen aspect and look at Islamqa, the discouragement of speaking other languages apart from Arabic isn’t limited to Western non Muslim languages, it also extends to native languages that are also spoken by current Muslim populations like Berber, Farsi and Somali would obviously be part of this. Therefore, technically, according to Islamqa, even our native Af-Somaali needs to be replaced. I don’t know how OP will come to terms with the fact that the measures he is proposing should be used supposedly against Somali. Reading the Islamqa fatwa was indeed interesting.


Let me add, the fact that a lot of Muslim countries have still been able to retain their native tongues shows that languages were never banned on a state level. They were gradually faded out by implementing a strategy in which Arabic became the Lingua franca. Moroccans and Algerians now predominantly speaking Arabic, but many still speak Berber which illustrates that early Islamic rulers tended to allow people to do their own thing as long as actual Sharia laws weren’t broken.

It’s an interesting topic indeed.

arabization of north africa was usually slow and gradual. there are exceptions like sudan in the funj era.

 

[Garaad diinle]

I’m all about dismantling the influence and soft power of Westernization/Secularism in the Muslim world and I think one of the most effective means of doing so is by banning the English (or any Western language) language from being taught in our countries. I cringe when I hear some stories about local Somalis who were born and raised back home insult other Somalis who were born and raised back home but do not speak English. If we adopt their culture (which includes language) then it creates an inferiority complex in many Muslims who will seek to imitate Westerners in dress, customs and of course, attitudes and beliefs which run contrary to Islamic values and beliefs. European armies might have pulled their armies out of many Muslim countries and granted them “independence” but there’s even a worst plague that’s worst than military colonialism, it is the colonialism of the mind.

The English language is not necessary to teach in Muslim countries. All the scientific, philosophical and necessary knowledge that is produced in the English language should be translated in Somali and especially Arabic Fusha (classical/modern standard Arabic).

Fusha Arabic (Classical/modern standard Arabic) should be the lingua franca of every Muslim just like Hebrew is the lingua franca of every Jew. The Arabic language is a symbol of Islam and it should be prioritized over every other foreign language.

Your coming from the right place, your idea is intriguing and thought provoking though it's
still rough and needs more pollishing. Bad western influence upon our muslim nation needs to be minimized but by excluding foreign languages from our curriculum will render the muslim nation blind and ignorent, unaware of different opinions, thoughts and the varying points of views.

I myself speak many languages and right now i'm contemplating learning a new one. We also need to teach somalis arabic for a better understanding of their deen without compromising the somali language just like we teach our kids foreign languages while preserving their somali language.

 

[Qeelbax]

I want to learn classical Arabic so bad man. I wish I watched Fusha cartoon instead of Arthur and shit lol

Arthur is the best

 

[Qeelbax]

I am trying to learn fusha arabic so I could understand the Quran better and classical Islamic texts. I feel like I am cutoff from my own religious tradition- I hate the feeling of not understanding my own prayers. Sometimes I would make dua in English - for sincerity. Any recommendations to learn fusha?

Madinah books. Best of luck, you'll need it. Fusha is a monster to even arabic speakers. Nahw is the worst though.

 

[Basra]

Fat Carbs to @Abu Hesi

 

[Qeelbax]

Where is your proof that in Islamic history the halal was banned on a mass scale? Even in the fatwa Uthaymeen was specifically talking about people that do not speak Arabic to each other and replacing it with another language. He literally says:

But the one thing that we must avoid is using it instead of Arabic. That is not permitted.

He is not talking about banning the learning of a language. How dare you twist the fatwa?

My own father banned English when we were at home to learn Somali, obviously that is very different to banning it on a state level. What’s next going into peoples homes to make sure they’re not listening to English?

You’re going off on an irrational rant now and that is because you can’t logically argue your point properly.

No way, is it a standard traditional view to ban the learning of language or any learning tbh. You tried it.

You too have been infected my Westernizion that is the irony of the whole situation. That view wasn’t traditional whatsoever.

No one is saying that.

Show me where I have ever advocated for views that go against the deen with regards to women? Show me. At this point you’re a slanderer.

Are you accusing me of being pro-LGTB?! Go on, let’s see how illogical your rant is.





Learning a language isn’t pro-Westernization. The extreme way you look at the world is what leads you to this. How about you put more money, money funding into Arabic and Somali and simply make it a core subject in which students have to pass and then make other languages optional? That works because then it makes Somali and Arabic important in the psyche of students. Banning is absolutely draconian

They're trying to restrict something that has been made halal? Isn't that haram? What authority do you have to stop us from ilmi?
Use their logic against them. If we try to increase the marriage/consent age, it's all kinds of chaos but they want to restrict the world from us? GOOD RIDDANCE!

 

[Qeelbax]

View attachment 247805


All of that is nothing but Arab supremacy dressed up in religious rhetoric

So many Islamic empires eventually collapsed because of Arab superiority.

 

[Qeelbax]

you read the Communist Manifesto??? and Engels?

well that is cool that you read. what are some interesting books you've read?

I don't like stuff like the Communist Manifesto but I do read books by non-Muslim authors myself so I feel it would be wrong to make a big issue. although personally I hate the Communist Manifesto because it is so inherently opposed to Islam.

anyways, I would not be against someone talking about women's rights from an Islamic standpoint and being concerned with women's issues. that's not a problem. but I have read some of your posts and felt that it was influenced by feminist ideology rather than from a purely Islamic basis. wallahi I don't object to looking at women's rights from an Islamic basis. and if you really are looking at things from a purely Islamic standpoint then may Allah grant success to your endeavor.

however I do feel that some of the stuff has not been in line with Islam and that is what has bothered me.

I read Mein Kampf, am I influenced by nazis now?

 

[reer]

@Abu Ash’ari iranians study in persian and arabs study in english and french.
iran has better industrial output.
iran is significantly more scientifically advanced.

 

[Abu Hesi]

Fat Carbs to @Abu Hesi View attachment 247825

eedo kutubeey, maxaa ku barideen maanta?

 

[Basra]

eedo kutubeey, maxaa ku barideen maanta?

Your new toaster is qaraab

 

[rep]

@Abu Ash’ari iranians study in persian and arabs study in english and french.
iran has better industrial output.
iran is significantly more scientifically advanced.

Do you know why? the Arab nations have not heavily invested in scientific development. They have relied on importing almost everything, despite the fact that the GCC countries have the funds to create multiple top 20 universities. Instead, they choose to waste their money on other things.

 

[Som]

I'm 100% in favor of learning other languages. Learning a language is always and advantage and never a disadvantage. The only thing we need to make sure is that Somali is also protected as the official language in Somalia. We ain't Arabs, we can learn their language as a second one but no need to use it for education (except Islamic studies) , the same is true for English but with only one difference. English is the lingua franca of the globe wether you like it or not , in todays world if you don't know English you loose access to a lot of stuff that is written in this language and is beneficial.
We need to make sure people have a good English level as well as Arabic. These are two important foreign languages to us

 

[Som]

Anyway we use English on this website too. Maybe we should start using af soomaali

 

[Awad]

Anyway we use English on this website too. Maybe we should start using af soomaali

Would filter out 99% of ajnabis and closeted liberals

 

[Nilotic]

Would filter out 99% of ajnabis and closeted liberals

I'm part of the 1% of Ajnabis that could adapt

I'll soon start writing entire paragraphs in Somali

 

[jemappelle]

Would filter out 99% of ajnabis and closeted liberals

Alot of us don't speak somali

 

[Som]

Alot of us don't speak somali

You should learn then. I'm not saying this in a bad way. Maybe creating a whole learn Somali section of sspot can be beneficial. It would benefit even me, i speak Somali almost like people back home but i could expand my knowledge more. Oftentimes somalis who don't speak the language are shamed because of this which is wrong. It's never too late to learn, and if you are Somali you are certainly familiar with the language. Just need a bit of practice to get used to it.