Erdogan humiliates Somalia “Ethiopia is twice as big as Somalia”

[Hilmaam]

Notice how a lot of countries tend to keep their distance when somalia enters spats or as some describe it as betrayal. It's a perfect example of how you're not respected when your country is a mess. Erdogan will probably side with Ethiopia before like the russians before somalia simply because it's a more stable and powerful country that has more to offer in terms of projecting power in the region. Nobody respects the poor, dependent living on handouts.

people live in dellsuion ethiopia gdp and production is

@Midas is right Ethiopia will certainty collapse because of what Meles Zenawi did and Abyi Ahmed inherited it. What he essentially did was indigenize the fight to combat first the ONFL and other insurgencies, so he created all these armed parlamilitary federal states militias that has come back around to bite the government in the ass and the ethnic federal model he also implemented just deepened ethnic divide between communities but also there is an important clause within the constitution that says :

Article 39, Section 1 of the constitution states: "Every nation, nationality and people have an unconditional right to self-determination including the right to secession." Each ethnic territory was thus given a right to secede.

Self-determination, secession, and indigeneity in Ethiopia's federation

Both the Federal and Regional State Constitutions of Ethiopia provide provisions for self-determination and secession. Article 39(4) of the Federal Co…

www.sciencedirect.com

This actually acts like a powerful driver and justification for ALF, OLF, ONLF, TPLF and Fano. It's more likely to collapse now then before, because unlike before where the groups wanted to reform ethiopia in their own image and take over the country , they want to cede the territories to establish their own sovereign independent states.

Also Ethiopia is poor , famished and lacking in resources since 2018 it's been showing signs of state collapse so there is questions if its even capable of thwarting those ambitions and if the government responds with human rights abuses , it will make it loose support internationally
View attachment 350766

Somalia is still country look at everything it’s dealing with. secession everywhere terrorism , govt collapse and still it’s held together by foreigners and internal forces. Ethiopia is getting billions in investments and has one of the fastest growing gdps in Africa. It’s gonna keep bullying Somalia as long as we divided and make it easy. East Africa country collapsing there are many better candidates than Ethiopia including us. Ethiopians united in keeping us down

 

[Idilinaa]

What's incredible is that Ethiopia has never actually collapsed. They've had a constantly functioning govt. Yet even we start from when zenwai took over . He ruled for over 21 years.

It's not really incredible its how most countries operate, they have regime changes and overthrows or secession. Even Somalia went through a regime change it's early beginnings. The type of ordeal you see in the greater middleast and Somalia is not the result of internal reconfiguration but externally driven proxy wars/insurgencies and invasions to overthrow states that creates this type of collapse.

So outside of Somalis/ONLF. Each group fought to reform and replace the regime and were firmly inside the Ethiopian project, the oromo, amhara and tigray. So the state Ethiopian project continued but it will collapse or disintegrate precisely because it's built on on a false and unsustainable premise in the long run.

Meles Zenawi actually put things into motion by trying to prevent that disintegration and jis attempt to combat insurgencies. What he did to maintain his grip is that he made Ethiopia into a police state and he indigenized the fight as i have spoken to you about before with the example of Liyu police.

Read this thread:

Yet it feels like beside the gerd dam and the building of addis in the last recent years. Barely anything has been done. The fact there's one 1 city in ethiopia with more than a million people. Like I've said before. Is one of the strangest things.

Addis is 90% slums and the rest really are just vanity projects they don't actually improve the life quality of the average Ethiopian or their living situation.

AMANUEL DESSALEGH - Abiy Ahmed’s Ethiopia: Simmering Crisis and Misplaced Priorities - The Elephant

Despite the country’s economic struggles and the dire humanitarian situation, the government’s actions are out of sync with the reality in the country, with public spending going to vanity projects even as living conditions worsen for millions of Ethiopians.

www.theelephant.info

Despite the country’s economic struggles and the dire humanitarian situation, the government’s actions are out of sync with the reality in the country, with public spending going to vanity projects even as living conditions worsen for millions of Ethiopians.

Ethiopians needs to lose the PR/Myth maintenance and be candid about their realities and struggles so they can hope to over come it. It also would be best for peaceful secession to happen, take a page out of the book of yugoslavia and the old soviet federation. It's time to let go and we all work with eachother as friendly neighbors.

Honest if ethiopia was a semi competent state they would conquered us a long time ago.

They tried plenty of times it ended in complete failure. Even during the backdrop of Somalia not having a national army

See how this news caster expressing this utter disbelief to Meles face ''Ethiopia left with their tale between their legs''. What a joke

 

[TekNiKo]

Failed tribal enclave? Do you think PL is like your landlocked xaar-hole in the Gedo where boons scavenge for roadkill and get molested regularly by low-paid Ethiopian army enlistees? He is a free Somali in his lands and he is about to build the biggest hospital in Somaliweyne meanwhile your uncles fight each other to see who can do the most raunchy niiko for their Cagdheer overlords while they throw dollar bills on the ground for them.
View attachment 350752

Ethiopia only invades the south because we resist their rule. No need to invade a willing Habeshi servant like murtad Cabdullahi Yusuf. inshallah the resistance forces will expel the kuffar bi idnillah tacalah. You already submitted a long time ago.

 

[Idilinaa]

people live in dellsuion ethiopia gdp and production is

Somalia is still country look at everything it’s dealing with. secession everywhere terrorism , govt collapse and still it’s held together by foreigners and internal forces. Ethiopia is getting billions in investments and has one of the fastest growing gdps in Africa. It’s gonna keep bullying Somalia as long as we divided and make it easy. East Africa country collapsing there are many better candidates than Ethiopia including us. Ethiopians united in keeping us down

Outside of the conflict with Alshabab which is somewhat contained and they have made progress forwarding basis to Somali troops.

Somalia is actually progressing in a positive trajectory unlike Ethiopia. It is moving forward with rebuilding its governing institutions, securing its maritime waters, attracting investments , rebuilding international trade partnerships, oil production and securing debt relief.

Ethiopia on the other hand is broke, it defaulted on its debt payments, and owes many biilions. It's economy is disintegrating. It's riddled with far reaching insurgencies and it's not united at all. It's in a very fragile state.

Even our other neighbor Kenya is not looking good at all

Somalia is in extremely advantagous state in comparison zero debt , oil, gas reserves, wind power and largest marine resources, mining and pletora of energy options.

Exploiting those resources successfully will be a way out dependencies and give finance capital to development without conditions and foreign interference. Economic development will give more room for peace and cooperation.

 

[Midas]

It's not really incredible its how most countries operate, they have regime changes and overthrows or secession. Even Somalia went through a regime change it's early beginnings. The type of ordeal you see in the greater middleast and Somalia is not the result of internal reconfiguration but externally driven proxy wars/insurgencies and invasions to overthrow states that creates this type of collapse.

So outside of Somalis/ONLF. Each group fought to reform and replace the regime and were firmly inside the Ethiopian project, the oromo, amhara and tigray. So the state Ethiopian project continued but it will collapse or disintegrate precisely because it's built on on a false and unsustainable premise in the long run.

Meles Zenawi actually put things into motion by trying to prevent that disintegration and jis attempt to combat insurgencies. What he did to maintain his grip is that he made Ethiopia into a police state and he indigenized the fight as i have spoken to you about before with the example of Liyu police.

Read this thread:




Addis is 90% slums and the rest really are just vanity projects they don't actually improve the life quality of the average Ethiopian or their living situation.

AMANUEL DESSALEGH - Abiy Ahmed’s Ethiopia: Simmering Crisis and Misplaced Priorities - The Elephant

Despite the country’s economic struggles and the dire humanitarian situation, the government’s actions are out of sync with the reality in the country, with public spending going to vanity projects even as living conditions worsen for millions of Ethiopians.

www.theelephant.info

Ethiopians needs to lose the PR/Myth maintenance and be candid about their realities and struggles so they can hope to over come it. It also would be best for peaceful secession to happen, take a page out of the book of yugoslavia and the old soviet federation. It's time to let go and we all work with eachother as friendly neighbors.



They tried plenty of times it ended in complete failure. Even during the backdrop of Somalia not having a national army

See how this news caster expressing this utter disbelief to Meles face ''Ethiopia left with their tale between their legs''. What a joke

Wow I didn't know that was where the liyuu police came from. Its very funnh That in trying to supress somalis they now have all of these paramilitaries in the country. Its a perfect textbook example of second order consequences. How many counties in history have collapsed because of simialr decisions. It's just like omar Bashir creating the rsf so he could prevent the sdf from becoming too powerful.

 

[Mastro]

Turkey colonising us we need a third independence day

 

[TheLand]

Ethiopia only invades the south because we resist their rule. No need to invade a willing Habeshi servant like murtad Cabdullahi Yusuf. inshallah the resistance forces will expel the kuffar bi idnillah tacalah. You already submitted a long time ago.

Yet you can’t resist shaking you black futo

 

[Idilinaa]

Wow I didn't know that was where the liyuu police came from. Its very funnh That in trying to supress somalis they now have all of these paramilitaries in the country. Its a perfect textbook example of second order consequences. How many counties in history have collapsed because of simialr decisions. It's just like omar Bashir creating the rsf so he could prevent the sdf from becoming too powerful.

Exactly. It also reminds me of the Mamluks or mercenaries in India and Egypt and throughout the Muslim world that rulers relied on back in history.

You are creating armed groups that can one day over take you. Not a wise decision if you have a bit of foresight

 

[TekNiKo]

Yet you can’t resist shaking you black futo

Stop infecting my eyes with your obsession with niiko and naked women. Acudubillah, I dont want to see such nasty images.

 

[TheLand]

Stop infecting my eyes with your obsession with niiko and naked women. Acudubillah, I dont want to see such nasty images.

This is what you are doing to us how do you think we feel waryaa

 

[Yazi]

If you really wanted to understand why the Soviets dropped Somalia and chosen Ethiopia read this indepth translation of the meeting they had in Aden.​

https://digitalarchive.wilsoncenter.org/document/transcript-meeting-between-east-german-leader-erich-honecker-and-cuban-leader-fidel-castro

​

Erich Honecker and Cuban leader Fidel Castro, East Berlin (excerpts)​

Transcript of Meeting between East German leader Erich Honecker and Cuban leader Fidel Castro, East Berlin,
3 April 1977 (excerpts)


Basically the Soviets warned Somalia that there is a socialist revolution in Ethiopia and any attack on it is unacceptable. Afweyne said he'll never attack Ethiopia ... 3 months later he attacked them.

 

[Midas]

Exactly. It also reminds me of the Mamluks or mercenaries in India and Egypt and throughout the Muslim world that rulers relied on back in history.

You are creating armed groups that can one day over take you. Not a wise decision if you have a bit of foresight

The fact that these military that caused abiy to engaged in war for the last several years wasn't even something that existed in the 2000s is wild. Your examples are exactly what I was thinking of. The classic center-periphery conflict. The closest ethiopian parallel was the age of princes in ethiopia. Which menelik brought an end to. But this time it's spread over a far wider area.

Plus the massive economic destruction caused by the tigray war combined with the pandemic. Created a ticking time bomb for abiy. The fact that these economic reforms which haven't happened in decades are happening now is becuase his hands were forced. But it's only a stop gap measure. No govt can survive an unchanging economic crisis

Look at this video which i foynd when i was looking into book publishing in ethiopia. (I'm starting to think more books are published in somalia) the prices increases they mention on basic materials like paper is insane. And this was before the birr devaluation.

 

[Idilinaa]

If you really wanted to understand why the Soviets dropped Somalia and chosen Ethiopia read this indepth translation of the meeting they had in Aden.​

https://digitalarchive.wilsoncenter.org/document/transcript-meeting-between-east-german-leader-erich-honecker-and-cuban-leader-fidel-castro

​

Erich Honecker and Cuban leader Fidel Castro, East Berlin (excerpts)​

Transcript of Meeting between East German leader Erich Honecker and Cuban leader Fidel Castro, East Berlin,
3 April 1977 (excerpts)


Basically the Soviets warned Somalia that there is a socialist revolution in Ethiopia and any attack on it is unacceptable. Afweyne said he'll never attack Ethiopia ... 3 months later he attacked them.

There is nothing in that , that is talking about them warning a war or them choosing Ethiopia. It's a meeting about the Ethiopian revolution.

It is talking about them being faced with dilemma after the Ethiopian communist revolution and how they wanted to reverse Somalia position towards Ethiopia and maintain Somalia's friendship with the socialist countries. What Siad Barre said was true at the time he wasn't interested in a war, his actions even reflected that and sought to negotiate with Mengistu

Mengistu didn't budge on the issue with Ogaden, had a hardlined nationalist bent and Reer Galbeeed's situation continued to deteriorate. Ethiopia were literally trying to ethnically cleanse Somalis in Ogaden.

“𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘌𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘰𝘱𝘪𝘢𝘯 𝘤𝘰𝘶𝘱 𝘪𝘯 1974 𝘸𝘢𝘴 𝘢𝘵 𝘧𝘪𝘳𝘴𝘵 𝘸𝘦𝘭𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘥 𝘣𝘺 𝘚𝘪𝘢𝘥 𝘸𝘩𝘰 𝘧𝘦𝘭𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘯𝘦𝘸-𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘴𝘦𝘦𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘨𝘭𝘺 𝘭𝘪𝘬𝘦-𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘥𝘦𝘥-𝘳𝘦𝘨𝘪𝘮𝘦 𝘸𝘰𝘶𝘭𝘥 𝘣𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘰 𝘩𝘰𝘭𝘥 𝘵𝘢𝘭𝘬𝘴 𝘰𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘖𝘨𝘢𝘥𝘦𝘯. 𝘏𝘪𝘴 𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘩𝘶𝘴𝘪𝘢𝘴𝘮 𝘲𝘶𝘪𝘤𝘬𝘭𝘺 𝘥𝘢𝘮𝘱𝘦𝘯𝘦𝘥, 𝘩𝘰𝘸𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳, 𝘢𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘯𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘤 𝘣𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘌𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘰𝘱𝘪𝘢𝘯 𝘳𝘦𝘨𝘪𝘮𝘦 𝘣𝘦𝘤𝘢𝘮𝘦 𝘦𝘷𝘪𝘥𝘦𝘯𝘵”.

Somalia was left with no other choice but to intervene directly. It was inevitable.

 

[Yazi]

There is nothing in that , that is talking about them warning a war or them choosing Ethiopia. It's about the Ethiopian revolution

Again with your dogmatic lies. If you didn't read it just say so.

In this setting I was faced with the complicated question of either speaking my mind about Siad Barre's position or keeping it to myself. I concluded that I had to speak out for the following reasons:

1. Keeping quiet would have meant endorsing the chauvinistic policy of Somalia, and its consequences. It would also have meant supporting the rightists in Somalia.

2. Not responding to Siad Barre would mean that any subsequent aid from socialist countries to Ethiopia, no matter how small, would be termed by Siad Barre as a betrayal.

3. In what kind of a situation would this put the PDRY, about to support Ethiopia with tanks, trucks and artillery with the help of a Soviet ship?

In addition, Siad Barre had not only been insulting, he was resorting to subtle threats. At a certain point he said that one could not know where all of this could lead.

Because of this, I spoke up. I explained that Siad Barre did not believe that there had been a real revolution in Ethiopia, that the events of 3 February had totally answered this question and that Mengistu was a revolutionary leader. I went on to say that we considered the events in Ethiopia as a revolution, that the events of 3 February were a turning point, and that Mengistu is the leader of a profound transformation. I declared that we could not possibly agree with Siad Barre's position. I said that Siad Barre's position represented a danger to the revolution in Somalia, endangered the revolution in Ethiopia, and that as a result there was a danger of isolating the PDRY. In particular I emphasized that Siad Barre's policies were aiding the right wing in Somalia itself in its efforts against socialism, and to deliver Somalia into the arms of Saudi Arabia and Imperialism.

I said that these policies were weakening Somalia's relations with the socialist countries and would have to lead to the collapse of the revolution in Somalia. I appealed to Siad Barre's and the entire Somali leadership's sense of historical responsibility. I said that I did not think that this would come to a war between Somalia and Ethiopia but that I was worried, since war would be a very serious thing. I do not believe that there are people who would provoke a war between the peoples.



---------



Immediately after my speaking so frankly, Siad Barre took the floor. He said that he would never want war and that as a socialist and revolutionary he would never take this path. If the socialist camp wanted to cut itself off from Somalia then that was the affair of the socialist camp. I had put pressure on him, Siad Barre, but not demanded from Mengistu, to come to this meeting.

Now, I pointed out that I had supported the summit between Siad Barre and Mengistu but did not talk about Siad Barre's insults vis-a-vis Mengistu. I said that Cuba had no intention of cutting itself off from the Somali Revolution, rather, we supported it. The whole meeting ended without any results.

If we now give our aid to Ethiopia, Siad Barre will have no moral right to accuse us of betrayal, etc. I told him very clearly that there was a revolution in Ethiopia and that we had to help it.

In any case I had detected during my meetings with Siad Barre a certain irritation on his part with the Soviet Union. He was agitated that the Soviet Union was not delivering spare parts or tractors and that oil came too late from the Soviet Union, in spite of repeated promises. The Soviet ambassador has explained the state of affairs to us. The Somalis were repeatedly changing their minds about their requests, which had delayed the matter. In addition, unfortunately the Soviet oil tanker had sunk on its way to Somalia.

As I told Siad Barre this, he called the Soviets liars. He said this was not the position of the Soviet politburo, but rather the result of sabotage by bureaucrats. His irritation and criticism of the Soviet Union also showed in other cases. He went on to say that there was not enough drinkable water in his country and that cattle were dying, the bananas were ripening too late, all because the pumps provided by the Soviets did not work.

Because of this attitude of Siad Barre I see a great danger. That is why I considered it appropriate to give you my impressions truthfully, without euphemisms.

I wanted to discuss my point of view frankly. The socialist countries are faced with a problem. If they help Ethiopia, they will lose Siad Barre's friendship. If they do not, the Ethiopian Revolution will founder. That was the most important thing about these matters.

 

[Idilinaa]

Again with your dogmatic lies. If you didn't read it just say so.

In this setting I was faced with the complicated question of either speaking my mind about Siad Barre's position or keeping it to myself. I concluded that I had to speak out for the following reasons:

1. Keeping quiet would have meant endorsing the chauvinistic policy of Somalia, and its consequences. It would also have meant supporting the rightists in Somalia.

2. Not responding to Siad Barre would mean that any subsequent aid from socialist countries to Ethiopia, no matter how small, would be termed by Siad Barre as a betrayal.

3. In what kind of a situation would this put the PDRY, about to support Ethiopia with tanks, trucks and artillery with the help of a Soviet ship?

In addition, Siad Barre had not only been insulting, he was resorting to subtle threats. At a certain point he said that one could not know where all of this could lead.

Because of this, I spoke up. I explained that Siad Barre did not believe that there had been a real revolution in Ethiopia, that the events of 3 February had totally answered this question and that Mengistu was a revolutionary leader. I went on to say that we considered the events in Ethiopia as a revolution, that the events of 3 February were a turning point, and that Mengistu is the leader of a profound transformation. I declared that we could not possibly agree with Siad Barre's position. I said that Siad Barre's position represented a danger to the revolution in Somalia, endangered the revolution in Ethiopia, and that as a result there was a danger of isolating the PDRY. In particular I emphasized that Siad Barre's policies were aiding the right wing in Somalia itself in its efforts against socialism, and to deliver Somalia into the arms of Saudi Arabia and Imperialism.

I said that these policies were weakening Somalia's relations with the socialist countries and would have to lead to the collapse of the revolution in Somalia. I appealed to Siad Barre's and the entire Somali leadership's sense of historical responsibility. I said that I did not think that this would come to a war between Somalia and Ethiopia but that I was worried, since war would be a very serious thing. I do not believe that there are people who would provoke a war between the peoples.



---------



Immediately after my speaking so frankly, Siad Barre took the floor. He said that he would never want war and that as a socialist and revolutionary he would never take this path. If the socialist camp wanted to cut itself off from Somalia then that was the affair of the socialist camp. I had put pressure on him, Siad Barre, but not demanded from Mengistu, to come to this meeting.

Now, I pointed out that I had supported the summit between Siad Barre and Mengistu but did not talk about Siad Barre's insults vis-a-vis Mengistu. I said that Cuba had no intention of cutting itself off from the Somali Revolution, rather, we supported it. The whole meeting ended without any results.

If we now give our aid to Ethiopia, Siad Barre will have no moral right to accuse us of betrayal, etc. I told him very clearly that there was a revolution in Ethiopia and that we had to help it.

In any case I had detected during my meetings with Siad Barre a certain irritation on his part with the Soviet Union. He was agitated that the Soviet Union was not delivering spare parts or tractors and that oil came too late from the Soviet Union, in spite of repeated promises. The Soviet ambassador has explained the state of affairs to us. The Somalis were repeatedly changing their minds about their requests, which had delayed the matter. In addition, unfortunately the Soviet oil tanker had sunk on its way to Somalia.

As I told Siad Barre this, he called the Soviets liars. He said this was not the position of the Soviet politburo, but rather the result of sabotage by bureaucrats. His irritation and criticism of the Soviet Union also showed in other cases. He went on to say that there was not enough drinkable water in his country and that cattle were dying, the bananas were ripening too late, all because the pumps provided by the Soviets did not work.

Because of this attitude of Siad Barre I see a great danger. That is why I considered it appropriate to give you my impressions truthfully, without euphemisms.

I wanted to discuss my point of view frankly. The socialist countries are faced with a problem. If they help Ethiopia, they will lose Siad Barre's friendship. If they do not, the Ethiopian Revolution will founder. That was the most important thing about these matters.

I read the whole thing but this is years after Siad Barre's meeting with Mengistu in 1974 where he he initially welcomed the coup and the war operations was well underway in the 1975 after he realized that no improvements would be made and Siad Barre was right there was no real socialist revolution in Ethiopia.

How can there be a revolution but you maintain the same policy but even worse one over Ogaden?

If there was any chauvanism it was on the part of the soviet bloc that abandoned the anti-colonial concepts it pretended to espouse

“𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘌𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘰𝘱𝘪𝘢𝘯 𝘤𝘰𝘶𝘱 𝘪𝘯 1974 𝘸𝘢𝘴 𝘢𝘵 𝘧𝘪𝘳𝘴𝘵 𝘸𝘦𝘭𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘥 𝘣𝘺 𝘚𝘪𝘢𝘥 𝘸𝘩𝘰 𝘧𝘦𝘭𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘯𝘦𝘸-𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘴𝘦𝘦𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘨𝘭𝘺 𝘭𝘪𝘬𝘦-𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘥𝘦𝘥-𝘳𝘦𝘨𝘪𝘮𝘦 𝘸𝘰𝘶𝘭𝘥 𝘣𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘰 𝘩𝘰𝘭𝘥 𝘵𝘢𝘭𝘬𝘴 𝘰𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘖𝘨𝘢𝘥𝘦𝘯. 𝘏𝘪𝘴 𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘩𝘶𝘴𝘪𝘢𝘴𝘮 𝘲𝘶𝘪𝘤𝘬𝘭𝘺 𝘥𝘢𝘮𝘱𝘦𝘯𝘦𝘥, 𝘩𝘰𝘸𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳, 𝘢𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘯𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘤 𝘣𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘌𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘰𝘱𝘪𝘢𝘯 𝘳𝘦𝘨𝘪𝘮𝘦 𝘣𝘦𝘤𝘢𝘮𝘦 𝘦𝘷𝘪𝘥𝘦𝘯𝘵”.

Somalia was left with no other choice but to intervene directly. It was inevitable.

 

[Yazi]

I read the whole thing but this is years after Siad Barre's meeting with Mengistu in 1974 where he he initially welcomed the coup and the war operations was well underway in the 1975 after he realized that no improvements would be made and Siad Barre was right there was no real socialist revolution in Ethiopia.

How can there be a revolution but you maintain the same policy but even worse one over Ogaden?

If there was any chauvanism it was on the part of the soviet bloc that abandoned the anti-colonial concepts it pretended to espouse

Again with your useless Word Salads. You don't need all these mental gymnastics to understand this basic fact. Whether Somalia considers there was a revolution or not in Ethiopia is irrelevant. Literally 3 months before Ogaden War he was warned there is a revolution in Ethiopia (from the Soviet POV) and he declared that they will not go to war.

"Minutes of the conversation between Comrade Erich Honecker and Comrade Fidel Castro, Sunday, 3 April 1977 between 11:00 and 13:30 and 15:45 and 18:00, House of the Central Committee, Berlin."


Ogaden War, 13 July

 

[Idilinaa]

Again with your useless Word Salads. You don't need all these mental gymnastics to understand this basic fact. Whether Somalia considers there was a revolution or not in Ethiopia is irrelevant. Literally 3 months before Ogaden War he was warned there is a revolution in Ethiopia (from the Soviet POV) and he declared that they will not go to war.

"Minutes of the conversation between Comrade Erich Honecker and Comrade Fidel Castro, Sunday, 3 April 1977 between 11:00 and 13:30 and 15:45 and 18:00, House of the Central Committee, Berlin."


Ogaden War, 13 July

Bringing additional context to something, its not word salad. I know you have rampant coolad for Siad Barre and have nightmares about him everyday that keeps you from being objective and neutral in your analysis and also see things from a Somali perspective.

The Soviet nations wanted Somalia to be on friendly terms with Ethiopia, but the issue with Ogaden prevented that from being a possibility. Capeesh?

 

[Idilinaa]

The fact that these military that caused abiy to engaged in war for the last several years wasn't even something that existed in the 2000s is wild. Your examples are exactly what I was thinking of. The classic center-periphery conflict. The closest ethiopian parallel was the age of princes in ethiopia. Which menelik brought an end to. But this time it's spread over a far wider area.

Plus the massive economic destruction caused by the tigray war combined with the pandemic. Created a ticking time bomb for abiy. The fact that these economic reforms which haven't happened in decades are happening now is becuase his hands were forced. But it's only a stop gap measure. No govt can survive an unchanging economic crisis

If Ethiopia allows for a peaceful secession and allows itself to dissolve it will actually do the whole region good. It will allow people to work with eachother more as neighbors i feel without hostilities.

All they are doing is preventing the potential of the region as a whole and keeping it in a perpetual cycle.

Look at this video which i foynd when i was looking into book publishing in ethiopia. (I'm starting to think more books are published in somalia) the prices increases they mention on basic materials like paper is insane. And this was before the birr devaluation.

It might even have to do with historical culture as literacy was discouraged in Ethiopian society and they looked down on literate people .

 

[Yazi]

Bringing additional context to something, its not word salad. I know you have rampant coolad for Siad Barre and have nightmares about him everyday that keeps you from being objective and neutral in your analysis and also see things from a Somali perspective.

The Soviet nations wanted Somalia to be on friendly terms with Ethiopia, but the issue with Ogaden prevented that from being a possibility. Capeesh?

Yeah, I detest Afweyne, that's not exactly a secret. I am not however going to cite sources and then cheery pick which one agrees with my point and then leave the rest. Or only showcase 30 seconds of a 5 minute interview with the very "misleading context" you just used.


Warya/Naaya you're one loyal Afweynist that's for sure. Going above and beyond to change the goal post, interpreting and pending the sources to fit your agenda, writing conspiracy theories as to why he was an exceptional president. I should have know from the other thread that your dogmatic believes runs very deep. To each his own, you're really not worth my time, welcome to my ignore list.

 

[Idilinaa]

Yeah, I detest Afweyne, that's not exactly a secret. I am not however going to cite sources and then cheery pick which one agrees with my point and then leave the rest. Or listen to 30 seconds of a 5 minute interview with false context.


Warya/Naaya you're one loyal Afweynist that's for sure. Going above and beyond to change the goal post, interpreting and pending the sources to fit your agenda, writing conspiracy theories as to why he was an exceptional president. I should have know from the other thread that your dogmatic believes runs very deep. To each his own you're really not worth my time, welcome to my ignore list.

You detest him but symphatize and align yourself with traitors that allied themselves with enemy Ethiopia to go to war on their own country and make civilians lives a living hell.

Why? because they share the same clan as you and you are invested in a enclave secessionist project that was pushed from the outside by Ethiopia from the very beginning at the expense of Somalis.

That portion of that interview actually collaborates what other sources say from that time. Because he openly admitted to working with and taking orders from Ethiopia and using Ethiopian troops to disperse into civilian settlements .

Whats more is that Sillanyo even murdered a number of Isaaqs and Ogadenians to sabotage a reconciliation meeting and to further entice clan emnity.

To qoute this ''Acting under the orders of Ethiopians''

The only one i am loyal to is to the Somali people and i sympathize with the greater Somali cause. I could give a rats behind if Siad Barre kicks the bucket. There is no hidden agenda , i want to see Somalia united, strong, stable and developed.

Heck if SNM took over with a vision and plan to realize this, i would be supportive of it. Instead they did the opposite and acted as stooges for the enemy , this for a number of reasons.