Father of 16 children and husband of three wives. Quran teacher at day and taxi driver by night. Baidoa SWS.

[mohamedismail]

 

[Angelina]

How wasn't it literal majority of your critique in that post was about polygamous men who do that instead of utilising their resources to better their current wife and children. It's towards the end that you include somali men in general and talk about such mentality seeping into other aspects of society

Because the topic at hand was polygamy. Hence I focused more on that. If it was men leaving a wake of single mothers, I would have said that as well and the list continues. My critique of Somali society is the mentality behind why some of these men do what they do which very much does seep into other aspects of society. The thought process is the same. It’s lack of foresight and that’s a concept i focused on heavily if you reread my argument.

For argument's sake lets agree that you didn't mean it, why in the world were you arguing with me all this time & even quoted my reply to other sister who made such claims about the linkage between the two ? i just don't understand

I argued with you because you went out of your way to minimize the issue and act like that hardly happens in Somali society. Whilst I don’t believe that poor polygamous men are the sole reason, or even the biggest reason, they’re definitely fueling even more poverty and difficulties for women and children and I saw it with my own eyes back home. I also dislike your hypocrisy. I know if this was about single motherhood and someone mentioned how that is damaging society, you’d not be quick to argue since despite the fact that single motherhood isn’t the reason why a society is poor, nor are the majority of women single mothers, the fact that a good % are can be damaging to society.
Even the other poster you were arguing with never said that polygamy is the only reason, she was saying that poor men who marry again are definitely contributing to it and I feel like you also have issues with that narrative.

It’s funny how many can understand how family issues can contribute to a wide array of economic hardships, but God forbid if women mention polygamy. Especially in the light of the fact that the polygamous unions were discussing actually goes against the Quranic junctions of fairness and affordability.

I'm referring to poverty rates resulting from the comparison between poor polygamous vs poor monogamous marriages. Since poor monogamous marriages outnumber poor polygamous marriages, the former's poverty rates will be higher in comparison to the latter.

In our entire discussion i've consistently compared poor monogamous marriages/men vs poor polygamous marriages/men.

Yes and I don’t understand why you would compare poor monogamous men to poor polygamous men when the literature shows women in poly marriages in poverty stricken societies are even poorer and have lower rates of educational attainment. They might not be the majority, but they are indeed poorer than the majority. It’s a very straight forward point which you’re trying to bypass.

You’re not getting a simple concept, just because most people are monogamous, that doesn’t mean that poor polygamous women aren’t poorer. Yes, they’re a smaller minority but their plight is worse. That’s the whole point!

Same as how most poor kids aren’t orphans, but we focus on orphans since their plight is more difficult! If you can understand this without arguing, you should be understand the former point.

In fact, let me continue with your mentality, it’s the same as saying most people with health issues aren’t obese since obese people make up a lower % than those of a healthy size. Hence we shouldn’t focus on obesity in healthy since most sick people are of a normal size. Identical reasoning and it’s that I’ve always had an issue with.

 

[Kalsoon]

I could only understand some of the video. Did he say the fee for the madrasa is $5/month for those who can pay and free for those who can’t?

 

[attash]

How dare you put such words in my mouth?

I did not put any words in your mouth. You said "broke men" should not be polygamous. The Prophet (SAWS) was broke, according to most people's standards. He gave away most of the wealth he had in charity and only kept enough to accommodate the bare minimum requirements to feed, shelter, and clothe his family.

The Prophet SAW didn't go around marrying women, for vanity purposes, nor did he marry them because they were young, or fertile. He married women who were widows or divorced women, in order to provide them with a better life. In fact, all of his children, except for one, were birthed by Khadijah!

And what makes you think the man in question didn't marry the women he married for the same reasons? We really have no idea why he married the women he married, why should we automatically assume he married them for vanity reasons?

As for the Prophet (SAWS)'s later wives, all of them were within child rearing age when he married them, with the exception of Sawdah (RA). It is unknown why he didn't have children with them.

The Prophet SAW was the best man on earth, and no man on earth is worth even a single inch of him.

Correct. I did not mean to compare this man to the Prophet (SAWS), I simply was trying to point out that character is more important than wealth.

I don't know who you think you are, but I'd appreciate it, if you didn't address me again. The gall and audacity.

Just because you call yourself a queen doesn't mean that you are one. If you want to express your ideas, expect people to respond with their own, this is how we can have discussions. If you do not want people to address you, then don't post.

 

[Aurelian]

Please explain how it is child abuse?

How putting 16 and more adults in on Jingad is right to you? If he can't provide why marry more than woman? I can't see the point of putting more 3 children above 13 years of age in one room let alone 16 in one jingad.

 

[Angelina]

I did not put any words in your mouth. You said "broke men" should not be polygamous. The Prophet (SAWS) was broke, according to most people's standards. He gave away most of the wealth he had in charity and only kept enough to accommodate the bare minimum requirements to feed, shelter, and clothe his family.

Islamically broke men aren’t allowed to be polygamous. Broke literally means those that do not have the financial means. The Prophet s.a.w is an entirely different case since he spent all of his wealth for the sake of the Ummah and his wives willingly gave everything up. Also, he was married to more than 4, more than the limits set to ordinary men and his case was unique. Furthermore, there are even hadiths which talk sabout the Prophet s.a.w giving the mother of the believers the option to stay with him since his life was one of charity and striving for the sake of Allah. You modern men, do not get to use the life of the Prophet s.a.w, so that broke men who are in poverty can damage the lives of women and children. The Quran makes it very clear that men that cannot afford polygamy to stick to one wife. There is an actual reason for that .

I'm shocked you are even debating this with her.

And what makes you think the man in question didn't marry the women he married for the same reasons? We really have no idea why he married the women he married, why should we automatically assume he married them for vanity reasons?

We have no idea why he married them, and we don’t even know how poor he is. But at the same time, you cannot make justifications for poor men marrying multiple women. That isn't acceptable and the reason why Islam is firm on this is due to the fact that it's women and children who suffer. Yet as per usual some of you men want to downplay it as fulfilling your lusts seems to be more important than making women suffer unnecessarily and you'll twist Islam in the process.

As for the Prophet (SAWS)'s later wives, all of them were within child rearing age when he married them, with the exception of Sawdah (RA). It is unknown why he didn't have children with them.

Correct. I did not mean to compare this man to the Prophet (SAWS), I simply was trying to point out that character is more important than wealth.

Very silly comparison and you don't seem to understand that affordability is a major cornerstone of polygamous marriages. The Quran literally tells poorer men and men that can't be just to stick to one, yet here you are attacking this sister due to your ignorance. it's the misuse of polygamy and the blatant lack of knowledge with regards to the importance of financial stability in polygamous unions that have created havoc in the lives of many women and children.

Just because you call yourself a queen doesn't mean that you are one. If you want to express your ideas, expect people to respond with their own, this is how we can have discussions. If you do not want people to address you, then don't post.

This is probably going to be my last contribution to this thread. Here are my overall points:

1. We shouldn't attack the man since we know nothing of his exact situation.

2. We shouldn't justify men who are 'broke', marrying multiple women. That is one of the things that fuel even more poverty for women and children and the lack of practicing polygamy properly is one of the biggest causes of misery and divorces in our community. Multiple African statistics on the matter showcase that women in poly marriages married to poor men are 20% poorer than poor women in mono relationships.

3. The amount of cases I saw back home in which a man lived in a tiny tin house with all the kids and family sharing one room and the man is married to another or trying to shocked me. That's not flipping acceptable and you men trying to justify this is just going to alienate women even more and horrifyingly using the deen to abuse women in this way is unacceptable. Why does Allah specifically tell men to stick to one or fast if they cannot afford to do so? Because it impacts women and children and very annoying that some of you men cannot see beyond yourselves. We also have a similar phenomenon in the UK in which odeys on benefits or their wives are toiling working in care (It's the new craze for Habayaros now) go back home to marry another without even properly providing for their kids and their middle aged wives are washing the backsides of gaals to make ends meet. It's stuff like that which fuel gender wars, mistrust between Somali men and women due to the actions of the older gen that has caused chaos and now we have the younger generation of boys making 101 excuses for the unjustifiable. No wonder you have gender wars, feminism and the like.

This is the end. Bye, I've had enough of this useless topic.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

Because the topic at hand was polygamy. Hence I focused more on that. If it was men leaving a wake of single mothers, I would have said that as well and the list continues. My critique of Somali society is the mentality behind why some of these men do what they do which very much does seep into other aspects of society. The thought process is the same. It’s lack of foresight and that’s a concept i focused on heavily if you reread my argument.

The OP of this thread was about a polygamous somali man before it got derailed, it had nothing to do with poverty. Multiple users were insulting the man, saying he was irresponsible, careless, abusing women & children, you even agreed with those posts.

It is abuse to bring new wives and children into abject poverty. What's 'Masha'Allah' about any of this?

Is that really something to be proud of? Having loads of kids when you are in abject poverty is irresponsible and careless. How is he supposed to cater to all those kids when he has to work two jobs? Somali fathers need to take parenting classes.

The same 2 users again agreeing with a post accusing the guy with child abuse

Child abuse.

when another user questioned the above post

Ask his children if they're being abused before slandering him idiot

this was habarstevens reaction

They're hating on him simply because he doesn't meet their standards of what they see fit to be rich enough to engage in polygamy. You then started arguing on the backdrop of this and is also why you introduced that talk about mentality. Please stop acting like you were arguing in vacuum and that you weren't trying to link poverty status of our country to poor polygamous men.

To prove that you indeed meant it, In that same page after your comment (post# 91), you again liked the post from puntitequeen (post# 96) where she explicitly links somalia's wealthy status with the prevention of poor men. In her mind it's very clear that poor polygamous men make a country poor, had there been no linkage she wouldn't have said that somalia would be wealthier.

Like i said to her there's a clear distinction between claiming that poor polygamous men contribute to poverty and claiming that an entire country is poor because of poor polygamous men. Had you disagreed with her you would've stated so laakin you didn't even when you replied back to that very same post of hers.

This is why i asked you if countries like usa, uk allow poor men to engage in polygamy will it lead to these countries being poor ? the same with your analogy between poor married and poor divorced women. The fact that you didn't even bother to respond to them indicates your acknowledgment of your flawed argument in linking

Somalia would be far wealthier and healthier, if broke men were prevented from practicing polygamy and chewing khat.

-The extra income they have could be spent on saving, buying land, properties.
-Their children would have assets to inherit should an accident befall their father.
-Their children would be sent to better schools, better healthcare providers and so forth.
- Happier and healthier wives- who could also study and work, and increase the inheritance for children.

All of this would result in Duah and respect from their offspring and Allah's mercy and blessings in this life and the next.

But this requires sexual discipline, accountability and wisdom.


Instead they prefer to force multiple wives and children to split meager income, and live in abject misery. And then they wonder why their sons join AlShaydaan to assassinate people for $100. Or why their sons are militia men for some corrupt politician/warlord.


It's all vomit-inducing.

Your reply to the above post

Yep and like I pointed out, everything you mentioned would require intelligence, a lack of selfishness and actually caring more than just filling ones stomach and fulfilling one’s lust and unfortunately, that doesn’t seem to be the case for our people. Hence, the cycle of poverty and instability and overall hopelessness will continue. I’ve always found it to be very hoolo, basically animal like for one not be able to think beyond the present and that’s unfortunately the infliction of Somali dhaqan. They hide behind Qadr and baraka without understanding that Allah helps those you also help themselves and that the baraka of children is also looking after those you currently have.

This is why i asked you if countries like usa, uk allow poor men to engage in polygamy will it lead to these countries being poor ? the same with your analogy between poor married and poor divorced women. The fact that you didn't even bother to respond to them indicates your acknowledgment of the flawed claim in linking a country's poverty status to either poor polygamous men or poor divorced women.

I argued with you because you went out of your way to minimize the issue and act like that hardly happens in Somali society. Whilst I don’t believe that poor polygamous men are the sole reason, or even the biggest reason, they’re definitely fueling even more poverty and difficulties for women and children and I saw it with my own eyes back home. I also dislike your hypocrisy. I know if this was about single motherhood and someone mentioned how that is damaging society, you’d not be quick to argue since despite the fact that single motherhood isn’t the reason why a society is poor, nor are the majority of women single mothers, the fact that a good % are can be damaging to society.


It’s funny how many can understand how family issues can contribute to a wide array of economic hardships, but God forbid if women mention polygamy. Especially in the light of the fact that the polygamous unions were discussing actually goes against the Quranic junctions of fairness and affordability.

Please show me exactly where i did that ? Not once have i ever stated or even claimed such a thing. So because i'm critiquing your stances i'm now either minimizing it or acting like it hardly happens look at the extent you're willing to go to just to deflect blame away from your flawed argument and bias in this thread.

The sole reason why you find me "problematic" in this entire discussion altogether is because i dared to question your subjective narrative pertaining to polygamy & the men who engaged in it. This is why you were making outlandish claims such as the above despite my repeated attempts asking you to cite evidence of me claiming exactly that.

I'm criticising you on the stances that you've taken and posted not what i "think" you've said or some hypotheticals. It's also not a coincidence that you took side with people who were hating, insulting and slandering the guy and not even once did you have the decency to confront them directly. Yet when it came to me you took a different approach, it is the reason why you accused me of whataboutism and not the like of puntitequeen. You gave them a pass why ?

Even when you made the comment advising people to stop insulting him you still went ahead to like the post from puntitequeen where she was mocking the guy, why is this ?

I’m sure he’s a great father. No point insulting his fatherhood without sufficient evidence. Let’s hold of on making comments like that, Ramadan is around the corner.

Just 4 post later

'Are the children starving' kulaha. Oh no, Allah forbid if we want more for miskeen children, beyond living on whatever meagre rations daddy asks them to share with 15 other siblings.
How dare we ask men to practice sexual discipline, financial discipline, let alone
*GASP*, ask men to have enough time to parent their own children!

Take a good look at this post, if you want to know why Somalia lags behind other nations, when it comes to certain things.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

Yes and I don’t understand why you would compare poor monogamous men to poor polygamous men when the literature shows women in poly marriages in poverty stricken societies are even poorer and have lower rates of educational attainment. They might not be the majority, but they are indeed poorer than the majority. It’s a very straight forward point which you’re trying to bypass.

You’re not getting a simple concept, just because most people are monogamous, that doesn’t mean that poor polygamous women aren’t poorer. Yes, they’re a smaller minority but their plight is worse. That’s the whole point!

Same as how most poor kids aren’t orphans, but we focus on orphans since their plight is more difficult! If you can understand this without arguing, you should be understand the former point.

In fact, let me continue with your mentality, it’s the same as saying most people with health issues aren’t obese since obese people make up a lower % than those of a healthy size. Hence we shouldn’t focus on obesity in healthy since most sick people are of a normal size. Identical reasoning and it’s that I’ve always had an issue with.

Again the reason for comparison between poor monogamous & poor polygamous men was to show the flawed reasoning in arguing for the casual relationship between a country being poor and poor polygamous men( ie poor polygamous men is the reason why a country is poor)

It's against this backdrop that i ask about this selectivity and why no similar linkage was made with poor monogamous men despite them far outnumbering poor polygamous men.

If poor polygamous men make up 1 in 5 of all poor married men in somalia, then it stands to reason these men are a minority among poor men. Similarly poor polygamous women & the children from these marriages will also be a minority among poor women & children. Meaning in overall poor men, women & children as a whole will be from the monogamous marriages in any given country simply because of statistics as they far outnumber those hailing from polygamous marriages.

It's not objectively sound to focus on one fifth of a country's poor while ignoring the rest. If 4/5 of poor men come from monogamous marriages then why aren't people making the claim that they should be prevented from marriage or even establishing links as to why a country is poor ?


This is why i believe without a doubt that the dislike people have polygamy and the men who engage in them is more than just a genuine care for those involved in it. There's an ideological reasoning other than the façade of portraying themselves caring about poor women & children & i hope people are honest enough to admit this. Nothing more

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

I could only understand some of the video. Did he say the fee for the madrasa is $5/month for those who can pay and free for those who can’t?

i think so as the reporter says that quite a lot of ardayda learn for free. Tbh i was surprised with just how much i understood thought af maay was way harder to understand. Perhaps the reporter toned it down a bit so that af maxa tiri speakers could understand it better.

 

[Kalsoon]

i think so as the reporter says that quite a lot of ardayda learn for free. Tbh i was surprised with just how much i understood thought af maay was way harder to understand. Perhaps the reporter toned it down a bit so that af maxa tiri speakers could understand it better.

It’s commendable that he doesn’t charge those who don’t have the 5 bucks. May Allah purify his intentions and protect him and his families.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

It’s commendable that he doesn’t charge those who don’t have the 5 bucks. May Allah purify his intentions and protect him and his families.

A lot of the dugsis back home do similar

May Allah bless them all

Ameen thumma Ameen

 

[reer]

i think so as the reporter says that quite a lot of ardayda learn for free. Tbh i was surprised with just how much i understood thought af maay was way harder to understand. Perhaps the reporter toned it down a bit so that af maxa tiri speakers could understand it better.

there is pure af maay and mixed urban af maay.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

there is pure af maay and mixed urban af maay.

Maybe that’s why it was easier to understand. I had a couple of Macaliin dugsi who were rx & I couldn’t understand a lick when they spoke it. Sometimes I may get the one word or 2 etc laakin it wasn’t intelligible to me at all.

 

[Angelina]

Again the reason for comparison between poor monogamous & poor polygamous men was to show the flawed reasoning in arguing for the casual relationship between a country being poor and poor polygamous men( ie poor polygamous men is the reason why a country is poor)

It's against this backdrop that i ask about this selectivity and why no similar linkage was made with poor monogamous men despite them far outnumbering poor polygamous men.

Is it selective to focus on single mothers? The orphans? The mentally ill? All of those are a minority?

If poor polygamous men make up 1 in 5 of all poor married men in somalia, then it stands to reason these men are a minority among poor men. Similarly poor polygamous women & the children from these marriages will also be a minority among poor women & children. Meaning in overall poor men, women & children as a whole will be from the monogamous marriages in any given country simply because of statistics as they far outnumber those hailing from polygamous marriages.

It's not objectively sound to focus on one fifth of a country's poor while ignoring the rest.

This right here is blatant whataboutism. So people can’t focus on it? That’s your issue isn’t it? Not that people are blaming them for all of the poverty of Somalia, which I agree is ridiculous, but they dared to focus on it?

I’ve caught you out. That is what’s bugging you. How dare people call out men increasing the poverty of their women children. How dare women object to already poor children and women sharing and having even less food and clothing.

If 4/5 of poor men come from monogamous marriages then why aren't people making the claim that they should be prevented from marriage or even establishing links as to why a country is poor ?

I know now with this reasoning you’ve displayed that you don’t think it’s an issue for a very poor man to have extra wives. If you did, you’d understand that being poor and in polygamy is worse than being poor and in monogamy because whilst most of the poor are monogamous, those in poor polygamous marriages are poorer.

The same way you accuse people here have an agenda, so do you. You simply want to downplay the harm of men who can’t afford it marrying again. The bit in bold confirms it.

If these posters were against polygamy in general and expressed that, I’d agree but being against men who can’t afford polygamy engaging in it is sound and I don’t know you’re acting like it’s the same as being poor and monogamous.

This is why i believe without a doubt that the dislike people have polygamy

There is a dislike for poor men dabbling in polygamy. You’re trying to downplay that as simply being against it.

and the men who engage in them is more than just a genuine care for those involved in it.

There is a genuine care because polygamy whilst in poverty is indeed an injustice towards women. That’s why we have strict Islamic laws curtailing it.

There's an ideological reasoning other than the façade of portraying themselves caring about poor women & children & i hope people are honest enough to admit this. Nothing more

I have a similar question which you have avoided thus far. If people argue single motherhood is a contributing factor poverty and social issues, do those people have an agenda?

I want to see how honest and consistent you are with regards to your thought process.

Bearing in mind single mothers are a minority with regards to poor women.

It’s becoming more and more obvious that your issue is more than people blaming all poverty on polygamous men which I agree is ridiculous, but you simply don’t want people to be honest about the link between women in poor nations in poly relationships being poorer and how these men contribute to even more poverty amongst that group.

I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you showed yourself with that explanation.

 

[Angelina]

The OP of this thread was about a polygamous somali man before it got derailed, it had nothing to do with poverty. Multiple users were insulting the man, saying he was irresponsible, careless, abusing women & children, you even agreed with those posts.

If you look at my posts, did I insult this man? Did I not say people should refrain? I’ve said that multiple times and outlined that in my first post.

That is why you’re looking at my likes like you’re shaaqo l’aan simply because you know I have refrained from insulting this man throughout my posts.

View attachment 319212



View attachment 319214

The same 2 users again agreeing with a post accusing the guy with child abuse


View attachment 319215


when another user questioned the above post



this was habarstevens reaction

View attachment 319217

They're hating on him simply because he doesn't meet their standards of what they see fit to be rich enough to engage in polygamy. You then started arguing on the backdrop of this and is also why you introduced that talk about mentality. Please stop acting like you were arguing in vacuum and that you weren't trying to link poverty status of our country to poor polygamous men.

I’ve literally wrote in my post saying we don’t know this man’s specific situation, hence I’m going to look at the situation on a general perspective.

I gave them likes because despite my disagreement with them going personal, I too believe that back home, men marrying multiple women with hardly any money is common and I’ve seen it with my own eyes and how it causes issues in the community. I agree with their sentiment that’s it an issue but not insulting him or arguing it’s the number one cause of poverty in Somalia but it definitely fuels poverty.

I agree with this notion:

Bringing new wives when in abject poverty is indeed abusive towards women and children which Is why it’s haram for very poor men to remarry. I 100% agree with the sentiment. Only disagreement is that I don’t know the specific situation of that dugsi teacher which is why I don’t agree with insulting him, but agree with the general message.

Why does the idea of women thinking it’s terrible for very poor men to remarry irritate you? Especially when that goes against the rules of poly?

To prove that you indeed meant it, In that same page after your comment (post# 91), you again liked the post from puntitequeen (post# 96) where she explicitly links somalia's wealthy status with the prevention of poor men. In her mind it's very clear that poor polygamous men make a country poor, had there been no linkage she wouldn't have said that somalia would be wealthier.

Again, it was the sentiment regarding the issues of poverty fueling poverty. I stand by that but I never insulted the man or believe that polygamous men are the sole cause of poverty since Somalis issues with poverty is vast. But I 100% stand by my sentiment that poor poly men increase poverty even more for women and children.

I know deep down you have issues with that view as well, which is why you keep on arguing with you and making it about polygamy in general rather than understanding this is a specific issue of being poor and polygamous.

Like i said to her there's a clear distinction between claiming that poor polygamous men contribute to poverty and claiming that an entire country is poor because of poor polygamous men. Had you disagreed with her you would've stated so laakin you didn't even when you replied back to that very same post of hers.

That has always been my sentiment and I highly doubt she believes they’re the number one cause. She’s arguing they fuel it. We all know factors like tribalism, corruption and the like are a bigger factor, but the mentality for me is the same, it’s all due to shortsightedness.

This is why i asked you if countries like usa, uk allow poor men to engage in polygamy will it lead to these countries being poor ? the same with your analogy between poor married and poor divorced women. The fact that you didn't even bother to respond to them indicates your acknowledgment of your flawed argument in linking

I did respond, unlike you I respond to everything and made it clear that single motherhood, poor men having multiple women ect does indeed fuel poverty and you have the AA community as proof. I acknowledged and answered it. I don’t know why you’re lying Authobillah.

View attachment 319220


Your reply to the above post


This is why i asked you if countries like usa, uk allow poor men to engage in polygamy will it lead to these countries being poor ? the same with your analogy between poor married and poor divorced women. The fact that you didn't even bother to respond to them indicates your acknowledgment of the flawed claim in linking a country's poverty status to either poor polygamous men or poor divorced women.





Please show me exactly where i did that ? Not once have i ever stated or even claimed such a thing. So because i'm critiquing your stances i'm now either minimizing it or acting like it hardly happens look at the extent you're willing to go to just to deflect blame away from your flawed argument and bias in this thread.

Yes, because it’s your stupid point of one cannot talk about poor people in poly relationships because the vast majority of the nation is monogamous. It’s akin to saying we can’t talk about the orphaned, the single mothers and the list continues.

You could have easily have said:

Whilst poor poly men do indeed fuel poverty due to limited resources, they’re not indeed the actual causes for the majority of the nation since the vast majority of Somalis are monogamous. Hence other factors that are greater are clearly at play.

If you said that, I would have 100% agreed and given you a thumbs up. But what did you do? Proceeded to minimize the issues of poor poly relationships.

The sole reason why you find me "problematic" in this entire discussion altogether is because i dared to question your subjective narrative pertaining to polygamy & the men who engaged in it. This is why you were making outlandish claims such as the above despite my repeated attempts asking you to cite evidence of me claiming exactly that.

What’s my subjective view? That poor men shouldn’t be polygamous? That’s a standard view you should be having. If you aren’t minimizing the issues of poor men and poly why question me? You clearly have an agenda and lowkey believe that a man in a tin house with kids all sleeping in one room, should be free to marry extra. If you don’t believe that, how are my claims outlandish?

I'm criticising you on the stances that you've taken and posted not what i "think" you've said or some hypotheticals. It's also not a coincidence that you took side with people who were hating, insulting and slandering the guy and not even once did you have the decency to confront them directly. Yet when it came to me you took a different approach, it is the reason why you accused me of whataboutism and not the like of puntitequeen. You gave them a pass why ?

I’ve said multiple times, we don’t know this guys backstory hence why I never insulted him.

Your whole point was whataboutism. Your whole point is, but there are more poor monogamous families, hence we can’t talk about poly poor families and we can use that useless argument in nearly every debate to derail.

Even when you made the comment advising people to stop insulting him you still went ahead to like the post from puntitequeen where she was mocking the guy, why is this ?

Because I agree with her overall sentiment. Poor men should not be in poly relationships. It’s a simple as that. You clearly disagree with that sentiment.

Just 4 post later



View attachment 319222

I know for a fact that even If I was incredibly specific in this thread from the get go and said that poor men in polygamous relationships fuel poverty and increase it, you’d still argue with me. It’s only after I tipped your logic to the head when you tried to add in the tragic what about ‘monogamous men’ stick that you started to claim that you’re now arguing against the idea Somalia is poor due to poly men. I’ve never argued that point since there are many reasons by Somalia is poor. But there is definitely a link between poor poly marriages and an increase in poverty and I stand by that and I’ve always argued that.

Women in mono relationships aren’t poorer because of monogamy, but poly women do become poorer as their already small finances stink even more. That’s why men have to be to afford it Islamically and the whole time you were questioning this by saying ‘what about mono men’. THAT is my issue with YOU.

 

[ZBR]

I could only understand some of the video. Did he say the fee for the madrasa is $5/month for those who can pay and free for those who can’t?

Taxi driver is a pure “xamaly” job, very honorable and very blessed

in a densely populated place like konfor or even mid to large cities like Galkacyo Bosasso taxis are independent

if a ride is baseline 2 dollars, and 10 rides, that’s 20 dollars a day , 30x20 that’s 600 tax free if he isn’t using a app


gas is possibly around 2 dollars a day if he has a average 24 mpg probox amf the distances are generally short

manuntimce might be a couple hundred a year due to the ubiquity of most cars in Somalia like probox parts and services are cheap

Also there’s the added benefit that there’s no meter and it’s agreement based if he’s convincing he could haggle a extra dollar

he’s living good

he might even have a affluent future with the right investments

 

[ZBR]

respect to those other Muslim Africans with steely conviction and love for their children, Niger Mali Chad, it’s funny how when gaalo Mormon, Amish, orthodox Jews etc do its that they’re people of stony conviction but with us we’re witless

also to those who are trying to divide us Somali women and their men are a unit and are working towards a goal that both have bought in, some men have died , but the womb of the mothers is even more valuable cherished and esteemed and reciprocally they also love and nurture their children more than other women, the best of all women.

Both Somali women and men believe in the progumantion , it’s not a light task our mothers went through

Also who loves Somali women more than the one who sacrifices her bone marrow to to bring more Somali women


Most of us came from few men and women, who for centuries continued having hope in Allahoptimism , gratitude in the face of trials and tribulations, living in the desert surviving with just milk amd water for the majority of the year

that’s literally the crux of the Somali story , tenacity

My Allah protect us from the nihilism and misanthropic mindsets

Not only does it work out but there’s never been a time it’s been easier and never have been the results seen faster, without disregarding the burden of the mother that she carries for nine months, health care in Somalia, access to wealth and food, and as world population and fertility falls (momentarily I dont think this slump is forever) our childrens vitality will be felt as the competition thins


we should be positive and hold upmost conviction of the Quran , the prophet and our impending victory

 

[ZBR]

Imagine when this Macalin is 65 years old most of his children will have their own families and his Dugsi will be franchised we are witnessing strong wadaad family.

Bro imagine the xasaanat amd fortunes this guys building akhira just from being a Quran teacher, every thing he teaches those children is written for him and everything they teach is also written so so forth exponentially. No wonder so many Hadith are about the fathail of teachers and Quran teachers

also he’s training his children to have a strong disciplined work ethic learning Quran takes true grit

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

Is it selective to focus on single mothers? The orphans? The mentally ill? All of those are a minority?



This right here is blatant whataboutism. So people can’t focus on it? That’s your issue isn’t it? Not that people are blaming them for all of the poverty of Somalia, which I agree is ridiculous, but they dared to focus on it?

I’ve caught you out. That is what’s bugging you. How dare people call out men increasing the poverty of their women children. How dare women object to already poor children and women sharing and having even less food and clothing.

I know now with this reasoning you’ve displayed that you don’t think it’s an issue for a very poor man to have extra wives. If you did, you’d understand that being poor and in polygamy is worse than being poor and in monogamy because whilst most of the poor are monogamous, those in poor polygamous marriages are poorer.

The same way you accuse people here have an agenda, so do you. You simply want to downplay the harm of men who can’t afford it marrying again. The bit in bold confirms it.

If these posters were against polygamy in general and expressed that, I’d agree but being against men who can’t afford polygamy engaging in it is sound and I don’t know you’re acting like it’s the same as being poor and monogamous.



There is a dislike for poor men dabbling in polygamy. You’re trying to downplay that as simply being against it.

There is a genuine care because polygamy whilst in poverty is indeed an injustice towards women. That’s why we have strict Islamic laws curtailing it.

I have a similar question which you have avoided thus far. If people argue single motherhood is a contributing factor poverty and social issues, do those people have an agenda?

I want to see how honest and consistent you are with regards to your thought process.

Bearing in mind single mothers are a minority with regards to poor women.

It’s becoming more and more obvious that your issue is more than people blaming all poverty on polygamous men which I agree is ridiculous, but you simply don’t want people to be honest about the link between women in poor nations in poly relationships being poorer and how these men contribute to even more poverty amongst that group.

I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you showed yourself with that explanation.

It’s getting rather childish given the numerous times I’ve clarified very clearly.

Like i said to her there's a clear distinction between claiming that poor polygamous men contribute to poverty and claiming that an entire country is poor because of poor polygamous men. Had you disagreed with her you would've stated so laakin you didn't even when you replied back to that very same post of hers.

Simply stating that single motherhood is a contributing factor to poverty & social issues is perfectly fine. However what isn’t fine is claiming that single motherhood is a cause for an entire country to be poor, this is the premise for my entire argument.

Not once have ever I stopped, denied or even argued with anyone who said that poor polygamous leads to poverty. What I disagreed with completely is the notion that poor polygamous men are the cause of a country’s poverty. This is where I bring in the comparison to poor monogamous men despite constituting the majority of poor men in any given country they aren’t associated with making a country poor. Hence me questioning their selectivity on this point.

 

[Angelina]

It’s getting rather childish given the numerous times I’ve clarified very clearly.

Like i said to her there's a clear distinction between claiming that poor polygamous men contribute to poverty and claiming that an entire country is poor because of poor polygamous men. Had you disagreed with her you would've stated so laakin you didn't even when you replied back to that very same post of hers.

Where did she say that the entire country of Somalia is poor because of poly men. I don’t recall seeing that and I’d like to think people understand that the issues facing Somalia is varied, from clan politics, to global warming causing famine to corruption and to instability due to extremists.

I’m intelligent enough to know that poly men are only a tiny fraction of the issue, but they do nonetheless fuel it and that has always been my point. But what I was getting at in regards to ‘this is why the country is unstable and backwards’ was the mentality and mindset behind it. The concept of live for today and not think about tomorrow. I also mentioned politicians and corruption in that post as well since I believe both types of men are motivated by the same thinking pattern. I also talked about how households are microcosms of communities and nations.

Simply stating that single motherhood is a contributing factor to poverty & social issues is perfectly fine. However what isn’t fine is claiming that single motherhood is a cause for an entire country to be poor, this is the premise for my entire argument.

Again, I doubt anyone truly believes that. Everyday on this forum, we discuss a wide range of issues that we feel is holding Somalia back. A country cannot be poor due to marital status of people or the singehood of individuals as well. Issues with regards to nations are multilayered and complex. We know this believe me.

Not once have ever I stopped, denied or even argued with anyone who said that poor polygamous leads to poverty.

Well if that’s the case, there is no need to argue then. I’ve misunderstood you entirely and I highly doubt Punt queen is under the impression polygamy is the one one cause or even the main cause. Everyday she’s in the politics section talking about how politics and tribalism is the issue, so how about you ask her directly? There clearly was a misunderstanding. Even Sophisticate wouldn’t agree with the notion that polygamy is the only or main cause of Somalia’s issues.

What I disagreed with completely is the notion that poor polygamous men are the cause of a country’s poverty. This is where I bring in the comparison to poor monogamous men despite constituting the majority of poor men in any given country they aren’t associated with making a country poor. Hence me questioning their selectivity on this point.

Ok, got it. Fair well. I don’t see any benefit to this debate as I don’t actually necessarily disagree with you.