Fiancé Asks Reddit If She Should Reveal How Much Money She Makes to Her Future Husband

[cooli3o]

Well under the Sharia women don’t have that luxury. Even worse in non Muslim countries in which the Islamic council make it very hard for women to get a divorce and even Khula in which the wife gives back her Mehr is made complicated and some men even abuse it by asking for a hefty sum in order for a him to agree to free her. The man can easily ask for 100k in exchange for her divorce whilst he holds on to her in marriage. The Khula process in the UK is terrible Authobillah.

Many of you men speak from not only a place of ignorance but also Islamic law especially in the West when many qadis can be incompetent.

well again I would never get married in the Uk or ever have kids here but marriage in the west is already diabolical and both men and women are at disadvantage marrying here I guess thats just life but my point is if a man knows a women has a certain amount of money unless the women believes her man is not a good man and is untrustworthy then their is no reason for her to withhold that information from him, now if she does hide it from him that's her own decision and she can do what she likes I don't really see the problem here.

 

[Garaad Awal]

She should tell him, open communication is important in marriage.

 

[Angelina]

@Angelina it would only make sense in my opinion for a fully trad women to perhaps logically hide this info but she won't even need to if she's married to a fully trad guy.

In the context of the UK, a woman who unfortunately gets with a narcissist is screwed. In Islamic centers when women try and get Khula some men leverage as much money as possible for a woman to free herself. Islamically a woman only needs to give back her Khula but some madhabs believe that the man can refuse and some men then say give me XYZ amount if you want a divorce.

It's only an issue when trads and non trads or people who pick and choose marry those that don't. That's where all the problems occur.

A trad women wouldn't work in a mixed environment if she's being provided for which limits her options in the work force so she most likely won't work and if she does or has a lot of money it won't matter if she has also married a trad guy.

Most of these relationships issues occur because of those men and women that pick and choose when they want to act on the Islamic way and when they don't however it suits them with those that aren't pushovers.

It’s not picking and choosing as Islamically a woman working or even contributing isn’t haram. Even if we take out the mixed working environment and woman is in cyber security so is at home and she decides to help her husband, does that mean her and her man are picking and choosing? No it’s their arrangement but as long as both parties are aware that the woman can refuse to chip in the next month then I don’t see your point?

Also, hardly any group of people were fully trad. Only the rich and those historically that were from cities. Our ancestors weren’t trad the way you’d see it. The wives were working in the Meey right along side the husbands.

 

[A Mean Guy]

@cooli3o Where do you plan on relocating, aside from the gulf states, getting a decent salary is out of the picture in most places.
Btw how old are you, you strike me as a late 20s early 30s guy. (no offence)

 

[Angelina]

@cooli3o Where do you plan on relocating, aside from the gulf states, getting a decent salary is out of the picture in most places.
Btw how old are you, you strike me as a late 20s early 30s guy. (no offence)

What age do I strike you as?

 

[cooli3o]

@cooli3o Where do you plan on relocating, aside from the gulf states, getting a decent salary is out of the picture in most places.

I haven't planned on relocating yet because I am not planning on getting married any time soon and I have alot of family business and stuff to sort out in the uk and won't leave her for a long time until I get enough, my plan would probably be to work in the uk or another country with my degree as I am planning to be a doctor then move to a country where I can get a large amount of money, eventually I would like to move to a poorer Muslim country where I can live comfortably on a low wage and raise a family there

Btw how old are you, you strike me as a late 20s early 30s guy. (no offence)

I am early 20s

 

[Angelina]

Btw, guys I’m by no means saying that a woman shouldn’t tell her husband. I do think the woman should give up some info as it will be shocking and not very nice for the husband to find out that she felt the need to hide it.

I’m simply illustrating the logical reasons why a woman wouldn’t which is beyond the idea that she’s selfish or doesn’t love him. I really do believe a lot of the boys here are coming from a please of privilage. As men you can simply not record your marriage and talaq her in a second if you felt like she was greedy, yet Muslim women at times can’t even free themselves from abusive marriages. If the husband doesn’t provide there are no courts that would assist in that especially when the marriage wasn’t recorded.

Marriage for women isn’t the same as it is for men and I believe that the Disney like myth pushed by some Western Muslim scholars is the reason why many don’t see the full picture.

 

[A Mean Guy]

What age do I strike you as?

Since you talk a lot about marriage and seem to have experience being married i would’ve said early to mid 30s.
But i remember you saying in a thread that u are in ur late 20s

 

[Angelina]

Since you talk a lot about marriage and seem to have experience being married i would’ve said early to mid 30s.
But i remember you saying in a thread that u are in ur late 20s

About to turn 30. So you’re nearly right

 

[Bundasliga]

Lol, I was about to bring that up. All our lives we are told as Muslim women husbands can marry without our permission so what now? If we argue against that we will have dozens of Sheikhs on our necks. Also, a man hiding kids is 10x times worse as the kids will have siblings they won’t know about which will mess up inheritance disputes by a lot of as children inherit the lion’s share! Also, don’t get me started on potiental STIs since many sexual transmitted diseases can happen without someone committing Zina. How is a wife meant to protect herself and get him to get tested ect if she is none the wiser that’s she’s sharing a sexual partner?! Really shows the level of entitlement men have in which they’ll compare secret second wives to a secret bank account they’re not meant to have anything to do with Islamically anyways?

to top it off, why do you expect women to share their wealth when Islamically you can come home and divorce her on the spot talaq talaq talaq and kick her out of the home since we Muslim women aren’t eligible for any spousal support beyond 3 months. Hence a woman can be living in her husband’s home, contributing money to it through buying furniture here and there, cooking and Cleaning and upkeep ect and even if such as woman was to do that for 30 yrs she’s eligible for nothing!

A woman who understands traditional Islam will in fact feel more obliged to hide some of her money as the myth about husbands money also be yours is not true at all!

Read and learn.

Unlike Muslim women i don't support hiding important things like second marriage from my spouse .

Unlike you modern Muslim women who won't move an inch towards your own husband & persist on your rights then those women (you arguing for)have no right to ask their husband to move an inch towards them .

Example the men can marry again & he doesn't have to tell the first wife at all . Its also his religious right , should he do that or should he take his first wife's feelings into consideration?

 

[Bundasliga]

To be fair, it's not Muslim women. Other Muslim communities don't have a majority of their women thinking this way. It's a uniquely Somali problem. The South Asians and Arabs and non Muslim Eritreans and other Muslims are wealthier than Somalis because they make better cooperative spouses who see the bigger picture. Somalis don't plan or care about their future. They care about immediate gratification. They will never delay it. This is why Somalia is a shithole and the diaspora is finished. She's lying about it being for her children. She didn't specifically say how she will use the 6 figure fund for her children.

This is why they are destined for divorce.
They enter marriage with a chip on their shoulder & would rather be multiple times divorced with kids or a deadbeat with multiple babymamas. Than stick to principles & build something up.

 

[Angelina]

Unlike Muslim women i don't support hiding important things like second marriage from my spouse .

What I or you support it doesn’t change that Muslim men on average believe it’s their legal right to marry without their spouses permission. It’s a common issue in our community and there are hardly any repercussions as whilst it isn’t moral, it’s technically legal. Which is why the new wave should be Polygamy clauses.

Unlike you modern Muslim women who won't move an inch towards your own husband & persist on your rights then those women (you arguing for)have no right to ask their husband to move an inch towards them .

You’re not getting it are you? As Muslim men you have the upper hand. If you decide to marry again, what can a woman actually do apart from request for a divorce? We can’t even divorce you lot without your permission?

Also, are you honestly comparing hiding a whole marriage to that of assets that you literally have no rights over? Women have rights to sexual health, yet our bodies and health is the same as you having the right to know what’s in a woman’s bank account? You sound greedy.

Also what protection of assets are in place for Muslim women when you can refuse to provide for them since there aren’t any Islamic courts? If she goes for Khula and you know she has a lot of money you can force her to give you extra money in exchange for freedom to exit the marriage?


How on earth are you the same as Muslim woman?

Example the men can marry again & he doesn't have to tell the first wife at all . Its also his religious right , should he do that or should he take his first wife's feelings into consideration?

Lol, you’re Somali we both know that many men in our community do not tell their first wives and the first wife Is bullied my the community to have ‘saber’ if the husband refuses to divorce her.

Btw, as I’ve said to other posters, I don’t think hiding millions is smart. He’ll find out and it might blow up in her face, but it’s not no where near just coming from a place of xaasidnimo when you take into account that men have a lot more rights in Islamic law. From divorce laws to even provision of assets.

 

[Bundasliga]

What I or you support it doesn’t change that Muslim men on average believe it’s their legal right to marry without their spouses permission. It’s a common issue in our community and there are hardly any repercussions as whilst it isn’t moral, it’s technically legal.




You’re not getting it are you? As Muslim men you have the upper hand. If you decide to marry again, what can a woman actually do apart from request for a divorce? We can’t even divorce you lot without your permission?

Also, are you honestly comparing hiding a whole marriage to that of assets that you literally have no rights over? Women have rights to sexual health, yet our bodies and health is the same as you having the right to know what’s in a woman’s bank account? You sound greedy.

Also what protection of assets are in place for Muslim women when you can refuse to provide for them since there aren’t any Islamic courts, If she goes for Khula and you know she has a lot of money you can force her to give you extra money in exchange for freedom to exit the marriage?


How on earth are you the same as Muslim woman?


Lol, you’re Somali we both know that many men in our community do not tell their first wives and the first wife Is bullied my the community to have ‘saber’ if the husband refuses to divorce her.

Btw, as I’ve said to other posters, I don’t think hiding millions is smart. He’ll find out and it might blow up in her face, but it’s not no where near coming from a place of xaasidnimo when you take into account that men have a lot more right in Islamic law. From divorce laws to even provision of assets.

Now you can suddenly acknowledge that hiding important information is xaasidnimo & shows trait of narcissism.

and there are hardly any repercussions as whilst it isn’t moral, it’s technically legal

Everything from Allah s.w.t is moral

 

[Angelina]

Now you can suddenly acknowledge that hiding important information is xaasidnimo & shows trait of narcissism.

You’ve not read anything I said and are on the defensive. Your argument only works if all things are equal. Hiding ones own money that their partner doesn’t have a right to isn’t the same as hiding a marriage in which intimacy is involved.

A wife’s money has nothing to do with a husband. Apart from feeling that she doesn’t trust you, what other consequences are there? Btw, I don’t mean to downplay feelings of distrust as that can blow up a marriage. I totally get what you’re saying.

A husband’s time and sexual health has direct impact on her and does have everything to do with her. It literally impacts her quality of life. Also, it’s hard to hide a polygamous marriage whilst keeping the rights of women. So it’s easy to fall into sin in that regard.

You’re trying to argue that they’re the same when anyone with any ounce of honesty can see it isn’t. In life there are different degrees. Some things are simply worse than others. I’m not denying that hiding wealth isn’t great. It’s better to just tell your partner.

Everything from Allah s.w.t is moral

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[Hamzza]

whilst it isn’t moral

It isn't immoral

 

[Angelina]

It isn't immoral

That’s your opinion. I’ve never seen a man hide hIs marriage and not fall into neglecting one of the rights of the wife.

Hiding the 2nd wife only works in misyr type of set up or when she’s in a different country which many scholars do view as no longer permissible due to the issues it causes society. As for long distance polygamy, it’s haram as you’re gone for months and your wife is none the wiser that’s she’s giving her right to time due to another woman.

You can only ‘hide’ on a technicality. In reality it falls apart and it easily becomes immoral.

 

[Hamzza]

That’s your opinion. I’ve never seen a man hide Is marriage and not fall into neglecting one of the rights of the wife.

Hiding the 2nd wife only works in misyr type of set up which many scholars do view as no longer permissible due to the issues it causes society.

You can only ‘hide’ on a technicality. In reality it falls apart and it easily becomes immoral.

It isn't hiding as well

I'm not obligated to tell my wife everything I do. If I pray Salatul layl when she is sleeping or if I marry another wife

 

[Angelina]

It isn't hiding as well

I'm not obligated to tell my wife everything I do. If I pray Salatul layl when she is sleeping or if I marry another wife

Yes legally you don’t have to at all. But we’re talking about the implementation of this and how it doesn’t fit into reality.

How are you going to treat them equally? How will she know she’s being treated equally? How will she account for the days that you’re missing? Do you lie?

Your extra prayer doesn’t impact her, but polygamy directly does.

I’ve noted that technically you can hide it but In reality you can’t do that without falling into sin.

You and I are arguing based on theory and reality. It is virtually impossible for you to hide it whilst sticking to the Sharia in reality.

 

[Hamzza]

And how are you going to treat them equally? How will she know she’s being treated equally? How will she account for the days that you’re missing? Do you lie?

Your extra prayer doesn’t impact her, but polygamy directly does.

I’ve noted that technically you can hide it but reality you can’t do that without falling into sin.

you and I are arguing based on theory and reality. It is virtually impossible for you to hide it whilst sticking to the Sharia.

You raised a good point

Hiding the 2nd wife only works in misyr type of set up

What is this?

 

[Odious Delirium]

Islamically he has to provide her with the lifestyle he lives. If he lives a rich lifestyle he has to provide that .

Many rich guys live below there means so that wouldn't be an issue plus keep in mind aslong as she's happy with what she's being provided then it doesn't really need to match his and if she isn't aware then she basically won't ever complain. I don't advocate for hiding in the first place it's just that people already do this and it's somewhat immoral but not Islamically wrong except for the hiding part which can cause inheritance problems later. That's also a problem when it comes to anything being hidden from someone you should be trusting. It may not be exactly a problem from an Islamic point of view but its definitely not advisable and definitely not something the prophet would do. So the same applies to marrying multiple women in secret I agree with the points brought up for that because that's the point I'm trying to make.

It’s already sadaqa on the wife for choosing to chip in, so I don’t see how traditionalism or lack thereof has a thing to do with it. He’s already benefiting and on top of that, you seem to be arguing that since she’s already giving him some of her money he should have more access or more info?!

You can’t say that Islamic arguments are out of the window. Since Islamically a woman chipping in isn’t haram and she can always refuse to continue chipping in. Scholars have said it’s her choice, so why are you trying to suggest that once a woman helps her husband she forfeits her original Islamic rights?

Do you hear yourself?

Yes I do hear myself. That's all in the context of two traditional individuals getting married. A woman who choses to follow Islam In how it's meant to be followed probably doesn't have that many work opportunities. a trad guy won't marry a non trad woman in the first place. She's sinning by being in a mixed workforce when she's being provided for adequately. so by default she's probably not married to a trad guy so the foundation of the relationship is non traditional and based off whatever they agreed upon in the talking stage.

Yes it can transform into a traditional one but if there not on the same page when they want to do that then they are gonna butt heads and the relationship will fall apart. The only people who complain about these issues are people who semi traditional/pick and choose.

A traditional woman with a traditional man can tell the guy without issue that she has a lot of money and he will still provide as usual because they came into the relationship on those principles and she doesn't see her chipping in as contributing rather as sadaq which she can give whenever she wants. It's not something he expects her to contribute because it's not a 50/50 relationship where there is an explicit or implicit agreement of contribution.

Regardless either of them can stop contributing at any point because of Islam. I never said they forfeit there rights. I just said that she's picking and chosing when she wants to follow Islam and when she doesn't.

No, because those women in 50/50 relationships can opt out anytime in an Islamic wedding contract. They’re not gaal and aren’t bound by this. Islamically a woman can choose to give her husband 50% and the next month she can withdraw it, so what now?

That's my point there not gaal yet chose to live there lives as if they are in gaal relationship with like minded people. A person who operates like that is gonna have issues if they haven't agreed upon this sort of arangement with there partners and you can't hold each other to account since you don't really play be the books so there more likely to involve the gaal legal system.

Once again I don't believe in 50/50 relationship so these questions don't really matter to me I'm not gonna be leeching or marrying a leech. I don't expect my wife to contribute and I'm going into it all with that in mind so if she chips in or doesn't it doesn't really matter and won't have an effect on our life.

From prior convos you have spoken alot about pooling and working together and building financially together etc that's called contributing because he can't provide (providing means there is no impact on your lifesyle if you stop chipping in)
Marrying a non trad guy who can't provide by himself is going to obviously be blindsided if you randomly stop giving your share in your partnership and it's gonna affect your relationship.

I could use the exact same argument for Pre-nups. Are you pro or against it? Be honest. I don’t think the guys here are being honest here as most of them if they were millionaires wouldn’t trust their partner 100% and thus will try and have an ironclad contract or hide some of their assets in Switzerland or whatever island.

I'm indifferent to it. My mentality is basically whatever happens, happens. Financially I don't really care to leave generational wealth if it happens then it happens. I'm only concerned about not leaving my kids/wife destitute. Plus I'm very low maintenance the stuff I like doing doesn't really require massive investments. I'm only working and most guys are aiming high so they can provide adequately enough so they can live comfortably with a family. The reason why I delay marriage is so I can provide adequately on my own so whatever she does or doesn't do is a non factor financially.

If I get screwed over who cares because I don't. I'm an open book on that front if I lose it all I can just start again. I would only have an issue if cheating was involved/my stuff is being given to another guy etc. If it's going to my kids I'm fine with that.

Anyways im not gonna be living in an area where prenups even matter so its another non issue for me. I wouldn't ask for a prenup but I'm not against it for people who live in non muslim countries. The thing is if she's trad you don't have to worry about this it's non or semi trad guys who marry non or semi trad women that cry about prenups. Which is the same story as the woman who is a multimillionaire crying about not trusting her non trad guy to not switch up once they get married.