Futuh al-Habasha: Somalis As Bedouins

[Shimbiris]

Also how are you so convinced 'Habar Magaadle' even contributed- the Ramzy Egyptian copy is the only version of the manuscript that differentiates 'Habar Magaadle' and 'Habar Maqdi'.

This is the oldest book that comments on the Futuh and it was reprinted in 1910- no 'Habar Magaadle' is mentioned:

An Arabic history of Gujarat; Zafar ul-wálih bi Muzaffar wa ālih; by ʻAbdallah Mu.hammad bin ʻOmar Al-Makkí, Al-Āsafí : Ulughkhānī, ʻAbd Allāh Muḥammad ibn ʻUmar, approximately 1540- : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Published for the government of India.

archive.org

All that kibir and isla-weyni and you're relying on what is effectively Chinese whispers as no one has the original manuscript only edited copies and the second half was lost.

To be fair, I think that Egyptian copy is on the money. It has to be two different tribes because they're both plainly stated to have different leaders; Ahmed Girri/Gurey and Garaad Dawit. They also bring in different troop numbers when called in for the Jihad and the fact that the Imam welcomes the Majaadli bunch first and particularly warmly with gifts to boot, even before his brother-in-law's tribe, kinda jibes well with that other document purporting a maternal tie between him and the Isaaq.

They can assume all they like, there is still no actual convincing evidence that Habar Maqdi is Habar Makador.

I think you're being excessive, walaal. Let's look at the facts here:

• Pretty much every other tribe present is a clear westerly tribe (Galbeed, Woqooyi etc.)
• The other Habar Maqdi tribe is eliminated as most likely Isaaqs given that Egyptian copy
• The non-Isaaq bunch were chased almost to the sea to an area that very much sounds like the northwest/Awdal going off the description
• The only other tribe known of, as far as I know, in that general area with a name similar to "Habar Maqdi" are the Habar Makadoor. And whadayya know? The Dir Samaroon have such a subtribe and live just west of the Isaaqs and just north of all these interior Westerly tribes found all across the Futuh.

It's pretty compelling. It's not just an assumption. I mean just look at how other plainly Dir tribes are also involved like the Gurgura and the Barsuug. That being said, who they were doesn't really matter to the main points of this thread.

 

[NidarNidar]

To be fair, I think that Egyptian copy is on the money. It has to be two different tribes because they're both plainly stated to have different leaders; Ahmed Girri/Gurey and Garaad Dawit. They also bring in different troop numbers when called in for the Jihad and the fact that the Imam welcomes the Majaadli bunch first and particularly warmly with gifts to boot, even before his brother-in-law's tribe, kinda jibes well with that other document purporting a maternal tie between him and the Isaaq.



I think you're being excessive, walaal. Let's look at the facts here:

• Pretty much every other tribe present is a clear westerly tribe (Galbeed, Woqooyi etc.)
• The other Habar Maqdi tribe is eliminated as most likely Isaaqs given that Egyptian copy
• The non-Isaaq bunch were chased almost to the sea to an area that very much sounds like the northwest/Awdal going off the description
• The only other tribe known of, as far as I know, in that general area with a name similar to "Habar Maqdi" are the Habar Makadoor. And whadayya know? The Dir Samaroon have such a subtribe and live just west of the Isaaqs and just north of all these interior Westerly tribes found all across the Futuh.

It's pretty compelling. It's not just an assumption. I mean just look at how other plainly Dir tribes are also involved like the Gurgura and the Barsuug. That being said, who they were doesn't really matter to the main points of this thread.

I apolgise if I derailed your topic, let the cooking continue.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

To be fair, I think that Egyptian copy is on the money. It has to be two different tribes because they're both plainly stated to have different leaders; Ahmed Girri/Gurey and Garaad Dawit. They also bring in different troop numbers when called in for the Jihad and the fact that the Imam welcomes the Majaadli bunch first and particularly warmly with gifts to boot, even before his brother-in-law's tribe, kinda jibes well with that other document purporting a maternal tie between him and the Isaaq.



I think you're being excessive, walaal. Let's look at the facts here:

• Pretty much every other tribe present is a clear westerly tribe (Galbeed, Woqooyi etc.)
• The other Habar Maqdi tribe is eliminated as most likely Isaaqs given that Egyptian copy
• The non-Isaaq bunch were chased almost to the sea to an area that very much sounds like the northwest/Awdal going off the description
• The only other tribe known of, as far as I know, in that general area with a name similar to "Habar Maqdi" are the Habar Makadoor. And whadayya know? The Dir Samaroon have such a subtribe and live just west of the Isaaqs and just north of all these interior Westerly tribes found all across the Futuh.

It's pretty compelling. It's not just an assumption. I mean just look at how other plainly Dir tribes are also involved like the Gurgura and the Barsuug. That being said, who they were doesn't really matter to the main points of this thread.

What document is this? There's a document that states a maternal relation between them?

 

[Shimbiris]

What document is this? There's a document that states a maternal relation between them?

I linked it earlier in the thread:

https://x.com/thebhlub/status/1267814933636382723?s=20

It seems to be saying the Imam is their relative via his aabo being their uncle.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

I linked it earlier in the thread:

https://x.com/thebhlub/status/1267814933636382723?s=20

It seems to be saying the Imam is their relative via his aabo being their uncle.

Interesting...

I wonder if there is any corroborating evidence. Perhaps the surviving Karanle around Harar know something about this. I won't dispute this particular point because it is plausible even likely lakiin that guy in the tweet is known for his extreme FKD antics and dragging Soomaalida kale in the mud 24/7

Shimbiris you might also be interested to know that the Walasmac's practice of tying a red cloth around their head was maintained in the North West by Cisse (this is Cerulli not Futuh but it adds another detail to our discussion here).

The geography of the Futuh is also very interesting and the place-names themselves also indicate Somali territory was deeper into modern 'Ethiopia'. The Awash river is referred to as the Dir river and there are also mention of 'Erer' the same as 'Irir' in the Samaale abtiris.

In that thread he also repeats the fake claim that Xarla are not ethnic Somali

 

[World]

Then you're not making much sense to me, walaal. If they were not ancestral Hararis or Argobbas then what? Those are the only Ethiosemitic groups they could have been, to be honest. Unless you think they were Muslim Amharas which there is no indication of anywhere that I know of.



I didn't say anything about Shewa. I am saying that the area immediately surrounding Harar ("Hararghe") which until just a hundred years ago was surrounded and inhabited by Somalis seems to have first been inhabited by those same Somalis' ancestors rather than any other group. And you're really going to have to explain away why when Enrico Cerulli studied the Harlas' language he found they spoke their own unique "dialect" of Somali and didn't seem to notice any Semitic substratum and also why the Harlas who have so far been found, including the ones among Afars, seem to show Somali genealogical origins. Alongside the final fact that Galbeed and Woqooyi Somalis don't look any genetically different from Somalis in Bari or Koonfur; there's no notable Ethiosemitic influence outside of the very rare person who actually can attribute it to a recent known ancestor like a great grandma. The "they were Ethiosemites" case really is faulty at this point, walaal.

Also, I don't think much of this whole Adal/Ifat debate. The terms are not used in the Futuh and, as controversial as this will seem, I don't think there ever actually was some giant polity that ruled from Woqooyi to Galbeed (counting Harar environs in the latter) and Shewa. You don't really get this impression from reading the Futuh, in my humble opinion. My wager is that the region was always as decentralized as it looks in Burton's writings and that is the impression the Futuh gives me as well.



No, walaal. You are terribly mistaken. The "country of the Somalis" in the Futuh is very plainly the northwestern Somali coast around areas like modern day Awdal and Woqooyi Galbeed. First of all, it feels like the whole section of my cut up post where I outline the Somali tribes in the area went completely over your head:

Section in question

The reason I outlined all of this is because it shows clearly that, contrary to what some readers of this book such as Drobbah over at Anthrogenica used to believe for some reason, the Somalis are not outsiders at all. These are literally the exact same tribes who live in and around Harar and Galbeed during the 1800s and during the 1990s and right now. The Futuh lists out the exact same tribes as living near Harar and the only tribe that is an exception are the Harti and the author, unlike with any other tribe, takes the time to mention they are from around Maydh to the far east in what is now Sanaag. He does not associate any other tribe with such a far away location.

And then if you read the Futuh you can tell that the "country of the Somalis" is a close-by place to Harar and where all the action between the Muslims and Christians is taking place as outlined below years ago in more detail:

Past Anthrogenica post

Drobbah at Anthrogenica had the same outlandish and weird misconception as you and thought all the Somalis were all the way in Sanaag and Bari for some reason and coming from there but then that's clearly not the case. 99% of the tribes involved in the conflict are tribes like Geri Kombe, Gurgura, Bartire, Barsuuk, Samaroon, Habar Magaadle (probably mostly Habar Awals), Hawiyes (Karanle, presumably), Mareexaan... these are all Galbeed tribes who literally still live in that same area 300 years later and now. What the Futuh actually very beautifully shows is Somali tribal continuity in and around the Galbeed-Hararghe area for about 500 years.

Read it, I implore you. Notice how close the country of the Somalis appears and that these are Galbeed tribes except for one that the author takes time to tell us are from a place to the east. Keep reading that Anthrogenica thread as well, I believe it's also pointed correctly that most of the warring is clearly taking place in the interior of the Horn and that the Imam and many of the tribes fighting alongside him, including many of the Somali ones, are interior people given this quote:



This is all taking place in the interior of the Horn and the "Somali country" by the sea is basically Awdal and Woqooyi.

As for your proof regarding the Dhulos and Harla claim:

Supplementary Papers

www.google.com

They were seemingly everywhere from Galbeed to Bari...

As you’ve quoted, in 1893 the Dhulbahante said the ruined town near Badwein in the Nugaal Valley were occupied by “Harli” which likely refers to the Harla, and that they were civilised, could read and write, and cultivated the land via irrigation.

This paper called “Ruined towns in Nugaal: a forgotten medieval civilisation in interior Somalia” actually goes into more depth about it and finds a link between the ruined towns in Nugaal and Harla:

Ruined towns in Nugaal: a forgotten medieval civilisation in interior Somalia

Download Citation | Ruined towns in Nugaal: a forgotten medieval civilisation in interior Somalia | The existence of ruined towns in interior Somalia, most of them in the northwest, has been known to Western observers since 1854. Some were... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on...

www.researchgate.net

40km to the east of Garowe there was a medieval town referred to as Xundhurgaal. The Archaeologists have said that the pottery found there is linked and similar with pottery found in Harla Ethiopia, and is dated between 14-15th century.

I believe Harla were the settled Somalis in the medieval period, even in dry regions like Sool they had towns and cities as they were able to irrigate the Nugaal River to cultivate the land.

The Portuguese missionary said that Maydh was a good town famous for commerce, but the Portuguese turned it into an impoverished town where every single boat no matter how small was being destroyed, the settled Somalis (Harla) civilisation probably collapsed by late 17th century and they forced to revert to a nomadic lifestyle.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

As you’ve quoted, in 1893 the Dhulbahante said the ruined town near Badwein in the Nugaal Valley were occupied by “Harli” which likely refers to the Harla, and that they were civilised, could read and write, and cultivated the land via irrigation

This paper called “Ruined towns in Nugaal: a forgotten medieval civilisation in interior Somalia” actually goes into more depth about it and finds a link between the ruined towns in Nugaal and Harla:

40km to the east of Garowe there was a medieval town referred to as Xundhurgaal. The Archaeologists have said that the pottery found there is linked and similar with pottery found in Harla Ethiopia, and is dated between 14-15th century.

View attachment 319890

I believe Harla were the settled Somalis in the medieval period, even in dry regions like Sool they had towns and cities as they were able to irrigate the Nugaal River to cultivate the land.

View attachment 319892

The Portuguese missionary said that Maydh was a good town famous for commerce, but the Portuguese turned it into an impoverished town where every single boat no matter how small was being destroyed, the settled Somalis (Harla) civilisation probably collapsed by late 17th century and they forced to revert to a nomadic lifestyle.

Yes our settled ancestors were forced to disperse.

They were hit with the collapse of 'Adal, an Oromo invasion extending to at least Berbera, successive years of drought and famine, Portuguese bombardment of coastal cities and the end of the old trade system (severely restricted trade and economic recession), etc.

The ilbax lifestyle wasn't possible with the collapse so Somalis fall back on tribal allegiances and fled to wherever their relatives were.

You can see the rough start of the current Ugaazates and reformulated Xeer like the famous Xeer Gadabuursi-Ciise as well fits the fallout of this collapse

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

To be fair, I think that Egyptian copy is on the money. It has to be two different tribes because they're both plainly stated to have different leaders; Ahmed Girri/Gurey and Garaad Dawit. They also bring in different troop numbers when called in for the Jihad and the fact that the Imam welcomes the Majaadli bunch first and particularly warmly with gifts to boot, even before his brother-in-law's tribe, kinda jibes well with that other document purporting a maternal tie between him and the Isaaq.



I think you're being excessive, walaal. Let's look at the facts here:

• Pretty much every other tribe present is a clear westerly tribe (Galbeed, Woqooyi etc.)
• The other Habar Maqdi tribe is eliminated as most likely Isaaqs given that Egyptian copy
• The non-Isaaq bunch were chased almost to the sea to an area that very much sounds like the northwest/Awdal going off the description
• The only other tribe known of, as far as I know, in that general area with a name similar to "Habar Maqdi" are the Habar Makadoor. And whadayya know? The Dir Samaroon have such a subtribe and live just west of the Isaaqs and just north of all these interior Westerly tribes found all across the Futuh.

It's pretty compelling. It's not just an assumption. I mean just look at how other plainly Dir tribes are also involved like the Gurgura and the Barsuug. That being said, who they were doesn't really matter to the main points of this thread.

I think Habar Maqdi/Habar Majdi is actually just another name for the Jidwaaq. This is why Garaad Dhaaweed (Bartire) and Ahmed Gurey (Yabarre) are both mentioned as Habar Maqdi.
I don't have time now to pull together the full set of images, but the thread by Puntland Vault on Twitter makes it clear.


I am a native Arabic speaker, so I will do direct translations in my next post.

 

[Garaad Hirabu]

The Habar Maqdi, followed Garaad Hirabu as their leader

 

[Garaad Hirabu]

Yabare Jidwaag and Marehan abtirsi have similarities Marehan abtursi ends in Hodanbare and Yabare ends in Hodanbere, Jidwaaq are bah maqaadi, and Marehan bah Jecle, or rer warwa'jecle.


Yabare abtirsi

Abtirsi.com : Hodan Bare Shahrudin Roble

Marehan are also rer Hodanbari

 

[Garaad Hirabu]

Basically Jidwaag and Marehan are referred to as rer Hodanbari because they migrated from eastern Sanaag Bari before they ended up in Harar, Faafhan and Awdal region. Even today there is a Jidwaag sub clan that lives in Awdal.

 

[Xareen]

@Slickster

Consider this thread an attempt at a Ramadan gift, walaal.

Jazak’Allah khairan, brother. It’s an amazing post, I’ve been discussing it between friends for a few days. The Islamic history of Somalia is something I want to concentrate on learning this month too, so this is perfect.

Ramadan Mubarak!

 

[Garaad diinle]

I linked it earlier in the thread:

https://x.com/thebhlub/status/1267814933636382723?s=20

It seems to be saying the Imam is their relative via his aabo being their uncle.

Sorry sxb it seems every post including this one of mine veers away from the original point of the thread but hey at least there is a productive discussion going on which is always a good thing.

The text quoted by the twitter user is full of commentary and self interpretation more so than actually quoting the original manuscript of ba-alawi. Matter of fact one ludicrous point it makes is that every somali clan and somali speaking non somalis are related to omar dunyahus either paternally or maternally. The only somali clan that trace their lineage to the walashma are the cisse somalis who are the descendants of sheikh issa ibnu muhammed ibnu omar dunyahus.

It makes sense especially when you look at the territory inhabited by the cisse somalis which somewhat corresponds to that of walashma, from the coast to the awash river. Sheekh cisse himself lived in the 13th century which is the same century as his uncle imam cali ibn cumar walashma.

By the way did you know that in the battle of adwa there was a muslim contingent on the side of the habashis named the walashma contingent. Yes you read that correctly, there was a walashma ruling dynasty that regent over a city in eastern shewa. Much like harar it was a city state but it continued as such until the second world war.

I also remember reading about a closely related muslim nobility spread throughout shewa all of whom trace ancestry to the walashma. In other words the cisse are the eastern walashma from the branch of sheikh issa ibnu muhammed ibn cumar and the other walashma in shewa are the western walashma from the branch of ali ibn cumar.

 

[NidarNidar]

The Habar Maqdi, followed Garaad Hirabu as their leader

View attachment 319924

I've come across this a while back, it's located on page 82 of the “Futuh Al-Habasha:

abtirsi

 

[Yami]

I think Habar Maqdi/Habar Majdi is actually just another name for the Jidwaaq. This is why Garaad Dhaaweed (Bartire) and Ahmed Gurey (Yabarre) are both mentioned as Habar Maqdi.
I don't have time now to pull together the full set of images, but the thread by Puntland Vault on Twitter makes it clear.


I am a native Arabic speaker, so I will do direct translations in my next post.

The 1779 manuscript is very unserious and has many spelling mistakes of different qabiils. It should not be taken seriously compared to the 1812 Egyptian copy. Here's a nosedive as to why:

Zajarti? The hell is that. If you cross reference this with the 1812 copy you'll see that whatever nacas that was writing this meant to copy down Harti. It must've been tough back in the days without autocorrect detection.

Out of all the clans in futah, this scribe butchered mentions of Mareexan the most. Just look at this monstrosity @Shimbiris @Garaad Awal @awsaleban667

Hell, not even Habar Maqdi was spared. This scribe misspelled Habar Maqdi with a xaa sound. "Xaabar Maqdi" instead of Habar Maqdi, The jokes right themselves.

There also is a mention of Habar Magaadle in this cursed variant of Futah Al Habesh. Here is it right here.

Curiously, this same mention of Habar Magaadle in this setting is also found in the 1812 version. Meaning of all things this guy messed up he somehow got the mention of Isaaq right.

Not to mention NOBODY knows who's responsible for the 1779 version. Are we really going to trust this over the more accurate 1812 version just because its a few decades older?

And to top off the shit sundae, this unprofessional scribe left what appears to be a shopping list and some schizo writing right in the middle of reading the futah manuscript. This is literally a 18th century equivalent of jotting down notes in the middle of writting a school essay & accidently pasting them into your assignment

Here's a link to this manuscript if anyone else wants to read this dumpster fire.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

Sorry sxb it seems every post including this one of mine veers away from the original point of the thread but hey at least there is a productive discussion going on which is always a good thing.

The text quoted by the twitter user is full of commentary and self interpretation more so than actually quoting the original manuscript of ba-alawi. Matter of fact one ludicrous point it makes is that every somali clan and somali speaking non somalis are related to omar dunyahus either paternally or maternally. The only somali clan that trace their lineage to the walashma are the cisse somalis who are the descendants of sheikh issa ibnu muhammed ibnu omar dunyahus.



It makes sense especially when you look at the territory inhabited by the cisse somalis which somewhat corresponds to that of walashma, from the coast to the awash river. Sheekh cisse himself lived in the 13th century which is the same century as his uncle imam cali ibn cumar walashma.

By the way did you know that in the battle of adwa there was a muslim contingent on the side of the habashis named the walashma contingent. Yes you read that correctly, there was a walashma ruling dynasty that regent over a city in eastern shewa. Much like harar it was a city state but it continued as such until the second world war.

I also remember reading about a closely related muslim nobility spread throughout shewa all of whom trace ancestry to the walashma. In other words the cisse are the eastern walashma from the branch of sheikh issa ibnu muhammed ibn cumar and the other walashma in shewa are the western walashma from the branch of ali ibn cumar.

It is unlikely that Cisse are the only descendants of Walashma amongst Somali clans.

The Ciise maintain that they and their cousins the Gadabuursi are both descendants of the dynasty. Interestingly, their relationship is corroborated by DNA studies they belong to the same clade.

Gadabuursi trace their lineage to Cumar Dunyahus through Ali bin Hassan bin Cumar.

According to them, the Sultan Sacad-ad-din and Imam Sicid were first cousins.

It is interesting that this Gadabuursi tradition also matches precisely the name we have recorded for Sacad-ad-din (Sacad-ad-din bin Ahmed bin Ali).

The Gadabuursi tradition says that Ali had three sons Ahmed, Oday and Daud.

The sultans Sacad-ad-din and Xaq-ud-din are sons of Ahmed bin Ali and their cousin (the father of Samaroon recorded as the western flank general) is Sicid Daud Ali.

The Gadabuursi also have specific traditions about Sultan Cumar (I remember Hassan Sheikh Mumin once mentioned it) and they also have maternal descent from the Aqeelis of Saylac as the mother of Imam Maxamuud (Samaroon) was the daughter of Ahmad bin Umar al Saylici.

This tradition is maintained also by the surviving Reer Saylac (equivalent of Reer Xamar) and the island of 'Sharifada' off Saylac is named for Imam Samaroon's mother, the daughter of the famous Shaykh.

I have seen at least two southern sub-clans maintain that they are descended from an 'Umar-Din' who came from the North (Geledi and Gasaargude). I'm not sure if it is Umar Dunyahuz or an Umar Din associated with the founder of Harar though.

Please provide any more info on these Walashma regents this is extraordinary.

Please note for clarity that 'Samaroon' and 'Gadabuursi' are not the same even though they are used that way. In terms of genealogy, Samaroon is one jilib (though a massive one). Not all Gadabuursi are Samaroon, as Gadabuursi includes multiple siblings and uncles of Samaroon (sons of Sicid and the sons of Sicid's brothers).

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

The 1779 manuscript is very unserious and has many spelling mistakes of different qabiils. It should not be taken seriously compared to the 1812 Egyptian copy.


View attachment 319931

Zajarti? The hell is that. If you cross reference this with the 1812 copy you'll see that whatever nacas that was writing this meant to copy down Harti. It must've been tough back in the days without autocorrect detection.


View attachment 319932



Out of all the clans in futah, this scribe butchered mentions of Mareexan the most. Just look at this monstrosity @Shimbiris @Garaad Awal @awsaleban667


View attachment 319938

Hell, not even Habar Maqdi was spared. This scribe misspelled Habar Maqdi with a xaa sound. "Xaabar Maqdi" instead of Habar Maqdi, The jokes right themselves.


View attachment 319939






There also is a mention of Habar Magaadle in this cursed variant of Futah Al Habesh. Here is it right here.


View attachment 319934


Curiously, this same mention of Habar Magaadle in this setting is also found in the 1812 version. Meaning of all things this guy messed up he somehow got the mention of Isaaq right.



View attachment 319937


Not to mention NOBODY knows who's responsible for the 1779 version. Are we really going to trust this over the more accurate 1812 version just because its a few decades older?


View attachment 319940



And to top off the shit sundae, this unprofessional scribe left what appears to be a shopping list and some schizo writing right in the middle of reading the futah manuscript. This is literally a 18th century equivalent of jotting down notes in the middle of writting a school essay & accidently pasting them into your assignment






View attachment 319941


View attachment 319942




Here's a link to this manuscript if anyone else wants to read this dumpster fire.

Yeah I saw this not long after but this website doesn't allow you to edit or remove messages after a certain time.

It looks like it can't be trusted lol.

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

The 1779 manuscript is very unserious and has many spelling mistakes of different qabiils. It should not be taken seriously compared to the 1812 Egyptian copy. Here's a nosedive as to why:


View attachment 319931

Zajarti? The hell is that. If you cross reference this with the 1812 copy you'll see that whatever nacas that was writing this meant to copy down Harti. It must've been tough back in the days without autocorrect detection.


View attachment 319932



Out of all the clans in futah, this scribe butchered mentions of Mareexan the most. Just look at this monstrosity @Shimbiris @Garaad Awal @awsaleban667


View attachment 319938

Hell, not even Habar Maqdi was spared. This scribe misspelled Habar Maqdi with a xaa sound. "Xaabar Maqdi" instead of Habar Maqdi, The jokes right themselves.


View attachment 319939






There also is a mention of Habar Magaadle in this cursed variant of Futah Al Habesh. Here is it right here.


View attachment 319934


Curiously, this same mention of Habar Magaadle in this setting is also found in the 1812 version. Meaning of all things this guy messed up he somehow got the mention of Isaaq right.



View attachment 319937


Not to mention NOBODY knows who's responsible for the 1779 version. Are we really going to trust this over the more accurate 1812 version just because its a few decades older?


View attachment 319940



And to top off the shit sundae, this unprofessional scribe left what appears to be a shopping list and some schizo writing right in the middle of reading the futah manuscript. This is literally a 18th century equivalent of jotting down notes in the middle of writting a school essay & accidently pasting them into your assignment






View attachment 319941


View attachment 319942




Here's a link to this manuscript if anyone else wants to read this dumpster fire.

The fact that the 1812 copy of the Futuh corrects the errors is enough to discredit it. You DO NOT correct errors when making a copy of an existing manuscript. It is one of the biggest mistakes in Islamic manuscript history.

Correcting a manuscript’s “errors” is discrediting. The 1812 copy is made unauthoritative because of it.

Here is an hour long lecture by the famous muhaqiq Bashaar Cawaad Macruuf on how correcting perceived errors in Islamic manuscripts has been a huge problem.

 

[The alchemist]

@Shimbiris

East Custhitic speakers influenced Ge'ez, and one can expect a lesser influence to come the other way, highlighting contact historically more ancient than the medieval age. Ethio-Semitic words in our vocabulary are, in my opinion, shown through evidence (not that it negates that it could have happened later, as well) evidence of early contact, not necessarily, a medieval one.

We have linguists showing these associations, bringing attention to the fact that East Cushites always lived high up north (eliminating, once again the southern Ethiopian hypothesis, that lacks a leg to stand on at this point):

There are also some possible traces of contact, in the form of lexical borrowing, with an East Cushitic language or languages already in Ge‘ez, whose sole representatives today in Eritrea and northern Ethiopia are the closely related Saho and ‘Afar. Amharic and its closest relatives also show some lexical borrowing from an undefined Highland East Cushitic language indicative of an old, pre-modern contact. - Aaron Michael Butts, “Semitic Languages In Contact” (2015): p. 18

If Afar-Saho was in close contact with Ge'ez speakers -- a population that lived far north -- one reasonably surmise Afar-Saho was always where it is today (maybe even further north). Somalis should be superimposed on the northern region, parsimonious with everything. Of course contrary to what those linguistic formalist migration theorists put forth on their evidentiary deficient rigid system on the closed methodology of assumptions.

Observing how Eastern Cushites came in contact with these Semitic speakers earlier than the medieval, it is insufficient to claim that Xarla were Ethiopian Semitic peoples based on linguistics alone (as no other evidence supports this notion) when Semitic influence can draw from older period by separate sources.

śǝga ‘flesh, meat’: this is usually seen as a loan from Agaw (Proto-Agaw *sǝx-a)3 with the same meaning, though the g:x correspondence needs explaining. The situation is further complicated, on the one hand, by the fact that possible cognates of the Agaw term elsewhere in Cushitic show a medial ʔ (Proto-East Cushitic *soʔ-), and on the other hand, by the existence of a similar East Cushitic form *šaʕ- ‘cow’ (cf. also Beja šʔa ‘cow’ and ša ‘meat’). Yet another factor that seems relevant is the ‘Afar/Saho term saga ‘cow’, which shows the same medial as the Ge‘ez term, though of course has the meaning ‘cow’ and not ‘meat.’ - Aaron Michael Butts, “Semitic Languages In Contact” (2015): 19

You also see here that again, Eastern Cushites had a linguistic imprint on Beja, if I understood this excerpt correctly. This aligns with the East Cushitic influence in Nubian and other evidence I have seen. This is not the topic of the matter though. I only mentioned it since the source is thrown out in related bulk.

The thing is, I am not even going to grant that Ethio-Semitic loanwords equal that Xarla was an Ethio-Semitic speaker. That leap is not justified. The region was not isolated, and we had contact with Semitic speakers from Eritrea due to trade for thousands of years. Going through the Red Sea, as the northern Somali coastal people did extensively before Xarla was even documented. Such contact leaves linguistic items no matter how negligible, similar to how we had pre-Islamic linguistic contact with southern Arabians.

The notion is further reduced by the fact that Somalis of the region carry historical continuity with the exact history attributed to these so-called hypothetical Ethio-Semites. People have to apply reason to their models of how things were, consistent with how things turned out, or have a rational explanation of why such evidence is lacking on all reasonable grounds. For example, it is not intelligent to admit aw-Barkhadle was the 5th or 6th grandfather of the first sultan of Ifat while then later pretending Somalis had no presence where those people ruled. It's a contradiction. Evidence proves this lineage, so it defeats this historical fabrication.

Another point that defeats this is the construction.

Xarla-type construction was built along Somaliland in what we know defacto was where Somali pastoralists built communal structures for semi-aggregation, caravan stops of settlements, mosques, etc., claiming that the people that lived along Somaliland that used the same type of building principles were Ethio-Semites but not Somalis is moronic because then we would see an extremely high spike in not only genetics but a unique Ethio-Semitic-Somali history persisting there to the exclusion of the rest of Somalis which is an unjustified position at all levels, baring no evidence of such ever took place observing the cultures of the clans of that region today through documentation, even later anthropology.

Mind you the archeologists emphasized that pastoralists-leaning people built those places. You can say a lot about those archeologists and their deficient insight into the region, however, one thing is clear, they brought some descriptive aspects that demolish a lot of the nonsense peddled by the anti-Somali history crowd. For example, the notion that nomads are destructive and thus settled places needed walls to protect against them, to find out that there was no evidence of conflict anywhere else in those structures-built places and walls being rare.

Distribution found of settlements and the archeological team didn't check further although they might have suspected more structures existed deeper of this kind (ignoring the more ancient stuff unrelated to this period, of course):

The settlements were slightly different in Somaliland than in Harlaa and Harar which is not an issue because any place had regional variation within regions in terms of construction. The point is, that it comes from the same construction horizon, and that fact still stands. I mean, what is the next claim to cover this nonsense, that there were Habash pastoralists who lived in a desert environment with camels, indistinguishable from the average Somali? It becomes ridiculous.

 

[The alchemist]

The fact that the 1812 copy of the Futuh corrects the errors is enough to discredit it. You DO NOT correct errors when making a copy of an existing manuscript. It is one of the biggest mistakes in Islamic manuscript history.

Correcting a manuscript’s “errors” is discrediting. The 1812 copy is made unauthoritative because of it.

Here is an hour long lecture by the famous muhaqiq Bashaar Cawaad Macruuf on how correcting perceived errors in Islamic manuscripts has been a huge problem.

It is correct that correcting errors and standardizing that can be an issue. If there are many errors and inconsistencies with your texts, the debate becomes about justifying one interpretation over the other in light of mistakes rather than selective reading. Otherwise, anyone can lean on the error for their take.

One primary point that would strengthen your case is if the corrected one copied the one you used, not an older source. Otherwise, how would you know if it is not more correct instead of an altered version of the one you use as a source?