Futuh al-Habasha: Somalis As Bedouins

[Shimbiris]

Found a source to pile on:

The first recorded reference to the Madhibaan people dates back to 1435 in Suleiman's translation of Ibn Majid's writings and poems found in Ababn Majid. In this text, Suleiman identifies the Madhibaan as Al-madhibaan, emphasizing their distinction as a separate nation from the Somali people. He briefly mentions the name Al Somali as well.

al_mahri_ibn_majid_books : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

١- شرح تحفة الفحول لسليمان المهري٢- القصيدة المسماة بالهدية لابن ماجد٣- القصيدة لابن...

archive.org

The handwriting is a bit annoying for me but I can read Arabic and it does seem to say what the English text from Wikipedia says. Basically, an Arab source is referring to the Madhiban and Somalis as separate peoples which we know, ethnically, is untrue. But if you read it as "Somali", at this time, meaning pastoralism/nomadism specialized people and the Madhiban obviously not being that, the source makes sense.

I truly am becoming quite convinced that during periods like the 1400s and 1500s "Somali" was basically a term for Geeljires/Bedouins and not an ethnic term. Really hits that this source is also basically contempraneous with the Futuh.

@Idilinaa @Khaem @Step a side @Yami @The alchemist @Midas

 

[Midas]

Found a source to pile on:

al_mahri_ibn_majid_books : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

١- شرح تحفة الفحول لسليمان المهري٢- القصيدة المسماة بالهدية لابن ماجد٣- القصيدة لابن...

archive.org

The handwriting is a bit annoying for me but I can read Arabic and it does seem to say what the English text from Wikipedia says. Basically, an Arab source is referring to the Madhiban and Somalis as separate peoples which we know, ethnically, is untrue. But if you read it as "Somali", at this time, meaning pastoralism/nomadism specialized people and the Madhiban obviously not being that, the source makes sense.

I truly am becoming quite convinced that during periods like the 1400s and 1500s "Somali" was basically a term for Geeljires/Bedouins and not an ethnic term. Really hits that this source is also basically contempraneous with the Futuh.

@Idilinaa @Khaem @Step a side @Yami @The alchemist @Midas

Wasn't hawiye also mentioned in like the 1100's ? We know so little about the environmental history of somalia. My best guess is that we are underestimating how much drier somalia is today than it was in the past. The shift to everybody identifying as somali might be symbolic of the change in the lifestyle of the entire country to one more dependent on pastoralism.

 

[Arabsiyawi]

Found a source to pile on:

al_mahri_ibn_majid_books : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

١- شرح تحفة الفحول لسليمان المهري٢- القصيدة المسماة بالهدية لابن ماجد٣- القصيدة لابن...

archive.org

The handwriting is a bit annoying for me but I can read Arabic and it does seem to say what the English text from Wikipedia says. Basically, an Arab source is referring to the Madhiban and Somalis as separate peoples which we know, ethnically, is untrue. But if you read it as "Somali", at this time, meaning pastoralism/nomadism specialized people and the Madhiban obviously not being that, the source makes sense.

I truly am becoming quite convinced that during periods like the 1400s and 1500s "Somali" was basically a term for Geeljires/Bedouins and not an ethnic term. Really hits that this source is also basically contempraneous with the Futuh.

@Idilinaa @Khaem @Step a side @Yami @The alchemist @Midas

I read Midg**n here ngl, so the exonym other somalis use for Madhibaan

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

I read Midg**n here ngl, so the exonym other somalis use for Madhibaan

I read that way too. It clearly says Al-Midjaan.

It is quite sad to realize that we have been doing this to our own blood brothers for at least 600 years. Depraved culture.

 

[Shimbiris]

I read that way too. It clearly says Al-Midjaan.

It is quite sad to realize that we have been doing this to our own blood brothers for at least 600 years. Depraved culture.

Sadly, it's probably a very, very old practice, walaal. It is shared with other Horners, Arabs and Barbers and could be thousands of years old:

Arabs also practiced Artisanal Taboo

I was always somewhat aware of this and how Arabians, like Somalis, have a similar aversion toward the crafts and "working with their hands" but didn't realize it was near exactly identical to the taboo among Horners: https://g.co/kgs/MgQ5PH Blacksmithing, masonry, carpentry, tanning and...

www.somalispot.com

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

Sadly, it's probably a very, very old practice, walaal. It is shared with other Horners, Arabs and Barbers and could be thousands of years old:

Arabs also practiced Artisanal Taboo

I was always somewhat aware of this and how Arabians, like Somalis, have a similar aversion toward the crafts and "working with their hands" but didn't realize it was near exactly identical to the taboo among Horners: https://g.co/kgs/MgQ5PH Blacksmithing, masonry, carpentry, tanning and...

www.somalispot.com

It is because of things like this that I don't believe in wholesale preservation of culture.

Some parts of Somali culture need to die. Pruning away things like this caste system and FGM is non-negotiable. Disgusting practices that remain virtually universal.

 

[Step a side]

@Shimbiris

It does say "Al-Midgaan," but since many Madhibaan reject the word due to its prejudiced usage, the writer has replaced it with the modern term "Madhibaan."

Regarding the word itself, this is evidence that "Midgaan" originally had no inherently negative definition. However, due to discrimination against the Madhibaan, words associated with them have taken on negative meanings over time. This process is known as a semantic pejoration.

 

[Shimbiris]

@Shimbiris

It does say "Al-Midgaan," but since many Madhibaan reject the word due to its prejudiced usage, the writer has replaced it with the modern term "Madhibaan."

Regarding the word itself, this is evidence that "Midgaan" originally had no inherently negative definition. However, due to discrimination against the Madhibaan, words associated with them have taken on negative meanings over time. This process is known as a semantic pejoration.

Yes, walaal, I can read the original Arabic "al-Midjan". I translated it as "Madhiban" to avoid using the more pejorative exonym. To be fair, it's still possible the word had a pejorative meaning back then and it was basically Somalis who were not Madhiban telling the Arab who heard that the name but it may have very well taken a similar route to the word "Gaal/Galla" with the Oromo. Originally, if I'm not mistaken, it probably just referenced the Qallu priests and how Oromos were basically Waqists and their followers but since the Oromo were constant enemies to both Somalis and Habeshas the term eventually took on an unpleasant meaning like "infidel" and "barbarian".

For all we know "M*dgaan" originally was just what they were called but from other Somalis pretty much turning it into an insult it possibly got warped. "I'm not a M*dgo!" is still a sentence I hear sometimes.

 

[Idilinaa]

It is because of things like this that I don't believe in wholesale preservation of culture.

Some parts of Somali culture need to die. Pruning away things like this caste system and FGM is non-negotiable. Disgusting practices that remain virtually universal.

I don't agree with @Shimbiris on this. Somali did not actually have a artisanal taboo or a caste either, this idea is born out of European orientalist, that tried project their societal feudalism in interpreting Somali social structure, which is based on an economic exchange system, not serfs and feudal overlords.

I explained it a bit before with sources:

Urban craftsmen were not Gaboye at all. When those 19th century orientalist sources mention this they are focusing on rural bondsmen in Miiyiga who btw are descended from various clans , Gaboye is not a clan and their role is often reduced because food production take up the more importance, so they are secondary to that.

The urban ones were different they were organized into the formal professional guilds and were also from various lineages. They crafted things for market places and traded it.




And when other Somalis moved into the towns and cities they would often take up on the same occupations , the same with the rural Gaboye as they were no longer were bondsmen when they settled in the major towns and as it was more common place.

Although it was done on a minor scale by the rural ones, it was the urban craftsmen that crafted the bulk the traditional crafts, and other stuff and they regularly exchanged it with the nomads and agriculturalists in return for other pastoral/agro products and raw materials.

.

 

[Idilinaa]

Found a source to pile on:

al_mahri_ibn_majid_books : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

١- شرح تحفة الفحول لسليمان المهري٢- القصيدة المسماة بالهدية لابن ماجد٣- القصيدة لابن...

archive.org

The handwriting is a bit annoying for me but I can read Arabic and it does seem to say what the English text from Wikipedia says. Basically, an Arab source is referring to the Madhiban and Somalis as separate peoples which we know, ethnically, is untrue. But if you read it as "Somali", at this time, meaning pastoralism/nomadism specialized people and the Madhiban obviously not being that, the source makes sense.

I truly am becoming quite convinced that during periods like the 1400s and 1500s "Somali" was basically a term for Geeljires/Bedouins and not an ethnic term. Really hits that this source is also basically contempraneous with the Futuh.

@Idilinaa @Khaem @Step a side @Yami @The alchemist @Midas

I think it's a bit of a hasty interpretation.

We cannot be sure if this is Madhiban but rather Madigaan which is a clan identity often confused for it which lives between Somaliland and Harar, people see them even in 19th century maps and think it's in refrence to Midgan/Madhibaan.

I believe it's Madigaan being mentioned, they are a Somali clan that are also called Massare Saransoor they live around harar and babile and some in Somaliland.

They are mentioned in Futuh as the Mazza clan. They are unrelated to Madhiban or the name Midgan.

IRB – Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada (Autor): „Information on the Madigan clan, a minority clan that is unrelated to the Midgan-Madiban clan, including its location, prominent clan members, occupational activities, whether it speaks any dist

Information on the Madigan clan, a minority clan that is unrelated to the Midgan-Madiban clan, including its location, prominent clan members, occupational activities, whether it speaks any distinguishable Somali dialects, and whether there is any information that links this clan to the Mahari...

www.ecoi.net

If you ask me , i believe the bigger more clear evidence for occupational seperation comes from ethiopian medieval texts that mention Temur(Tumaal) and Semur(Somaal) seperately but it survived as an archaism until 20th century.

 

[Idilinaa]

Wasn't hawiye also mentioned in like the 1100's ? We know so little about the environmental history of somalia. My best guess is that we are underestimating how much drier somalia is today than it was in the past. The shift to everybody identifying as somali might be symbolic of the change in the lifestyle of the entire country to one more dependent on pastoralism.

View attachment 352382View attachment 352383

Significant environmental changes happened in both the north and the south. Even flooding of the coast that damaged the towns in the North that we know of by Arabic sources.

Said Shidad made a little headway investigation into it as well and you see certain sources mention rivers behind Berber and Zeila and more rivers between Harar and showa in local sources that dried out today.

Understanding the Drivers of Drought in Somalia: Environmental Degradation as a Drought Determinant

This is further attested by an important Awdali (Somali state) document regarding earlier decades of the sixteenth century. According to the document, there were large herds of elephants and antelopes in today’s arid lowlands in the west of Harar uplands where forests were also prevalent

.56 Additionally, besides the surviving Hawash River, the study names at least five other rivers in the area between Harar and Shawa plateau.57 All these living elements have gone by the nineteenth century or before

and you see it in this source as well:

This qoute from the 1700s on Northern Somalia shows how we overcame the lack of rainfall.
''It seldom rains here; but the country is well watered by rivers and abounds with wheat, millet, frankinscense and pepper''

 

[Shimbiris]

I don't agree with @Shimbiris on this. Somali did not actually have a artisanal taboo or a caste either, this idea is born out of European orientalist, that tried project their societal feudalism in interpreting Somali social structure, which is based on an economic exchange system, not serfs and feudal overlords.

I explained it a bit before with sources:

Walaal, our ancestors literally refused to eat with them at a table or marry them. Then we find the exact same custom in neighboring Ethiopia and Arabia as well as other parts of Africa like the Maghreb. No marriage, derogatorily speaking of these people, and even refusing to eat with them or use the same plate they did. Cadaans simply used the term "caste" because that sort of exclusionary behavior reminded them of the Indian caste system.

Now, it's true that these roles were more fluid than people like to think and probably members of the "noble" tribes often moved in and out of these groups as you've shown me, and it was probably even further fluid during the more fertile and prosperous middle ages, then there are interesting exceptions like how the Tunni in Koonfur are not ostracized or looked down upon despite being credited as the main builders and masons of the region. You're probably right that this may have been more like a bondsman situation historically.

Nevertheless, I think one is being disingenuous if they try to pretend that Somalis do not have a clear culturally ingrained dislike for any laborious work that isn't shepherding or farming and then practice marriage exclusion and social ostracization toward people who take on such roles. Europeans didn't somehow magically teach the entire Arabian peninsula, Horn of Africa and Maghreb this way of behaving or make it up, walaal. It's clearly ancient and ingrained.

I think it's a bit of a hasty interpretation.

We cannot be sure if this is Madhiban but rather Madigaan which is a clan identity often confused for it which lives between Somaliland and Harar, people see them even in 19th century maps and think it's in refrence to Midgan/Madhibaan.

He might have written it differently as "مديجان" if this was the case. But if you're correct which is entirely possible, it still illustrates the point I was making in that here a source is naming a Somali group differently from Somalis during the same period as the writing of the Futuh, probably because this group, regardless of who they were, were not principally nomadic pastoralists. It makes a lot more sense if it's referencing the Madhiban as a result.

It is furthermore interesting what @Midas points out regarding the Hawiye, for example, because in those historical accounts of them they're described as having "villages" along the Shabelle river, implying a farmer and settled way of life which maybe why they're not being referred to as Somalis.

 

[Step a side]

I think it's a bit of a hasty interpretation.

We cannot be sure if this is Madhiban but rather Madigaan which is a clan identity often confused for it which lives between Somaliland and Harar, people see them even in 19th century maps and think it's in refrence to Midgan/Madhibaan.



If you ask me , i believe the bigger more clear evidence for occupational seperation comes from ethiopian medieval texts that mention Temur(Tumaal) and Semur(Somaal) seperately but it survived as an archaism until 20th century.

It definitely refers to Midgaan/Madhibaan rather than the Madigaan you mentioned. The terms Temur and Semur support this, as Somalis were often categorized based on lifestyle, and this text likely does the same. Additionally, it uses "Midjaan" rather than "Madigaan" within the text itself.

I don't think people confuse the Madigaan, who are relatively few in number, with the Madhibaan. Most texts that mention Midgaan always highlight the unique characteristics of the Madhibaan

 

[Idilinaa]

Walaal, our ancestors literally refused to eat with them at a table or marry them. Then we find the exact same custom in neighboring Ethiopia and Arabia as well as other parts of Africa like the Maghreb. No marriage, derogatorily speaking of these people, and even refusing to eat with them or use the same plate they did. Cadaans simply used the term "caste" because that sort of exclusionary behavior reminded them of the Indian caste system.

Now, it's true that these roles were more fluid than people like to think and probably members of the "noble" tribes often moved in and out of these groups as you've shown me, and it was probably even further fluid during the more fertile and prosperous middle ages, then there are interesting exceptions like how the Tunni in Koonfur are not ostracized or looked down upon despite being credited as the main builders and masons of the region. You're probably right that this may have been more like a bondsman situation historically.

Nevertheless, I think one is being disingenuous if they try to pretend that Somalis do not have a clear culturally ingrained dislike for any laborious work that isn't shepherding or farming and then practice marriage exclusion and social ostracization toward people who take on such roles. Europeans didn't somehow magically teach the entire Arabian peninsula, Horn of Africa and Maghreb this way of behaving or make it up, walaal. It's clearly ancient and ingrained.

I actually think that's an orientalist exaggeration and mythmaking , although there was separation between them especially in the rural country side to enforce and make people keep to seperate role for survival purposes, much like the gender segragated roles i have spoken about , it was wasn't as rigid as people make them out to be.

The roles were based on subsistence economics. Most Somalis had to focus on food production while delegating other tasks to a minority few for survival sake. This could change as well during periods of surplus that just like the female roles expanded in time of wealth and in less resource scarce areas , other roles would have the liberty to expand.

There were several recorded cases in past where other clans actually married them, especially Tumaal in the Northeast.

and the clans that made up Madhiban/midgaan/sab/gaboye etc were not related to eachother at all and hailed seperate lineage within the main 5/6 lineages.

The sab live scatttered all over Northern Somalilan in real or putative patri lineages on a pattern similar, though reduced, to those of their noble Somali (Ajji) protectors. In different regions they are known locally by the names of the eponyms of the small agnatic lineage groups into which they are divided, rather than their occupational classification as Midgan, Tumaal and Yibir. Ultimitely, however iti is as these and, collectively, as sab, that they are described. In the north the two largest Midgaan lineage groups are the Muuse Diiriye in the west and Midhiban in the east.

In support of these claims, Midgaan informants have produced genealogies tracing descent from Dir, the founder of the Dir clan familiy. Some Tumaal race descent from Darood founder of the noble Darood Somali clan family''

The only collective genetic data done on them is the one done by I.M Lewis and Goldsmith:

Goldsmith and I. M. Lewis (1958) say that the hunter and artisan castes among the Somali show no obvious physical differences from the “noble” Somali, speak the same language, are culturally similar, and that there are no “strong traditions” of their having had a separate origin. In addition, these authors report no significant differences between the Somali and their associated castes (called sub) in ABO, MN, and Rhesus blood group distribution, although the castes are endogamous and have presumably long been so.

And they concluded that their Bondsmen (Sab) sample was identitical to the other Somali clans:

our sab sample is thus virtually identical with that of the Somali....our results suggest that in serological characters there is no difference between those of the sab and those of noble Somali.

The same goes for the Urban ones, they all came from diverse lineage, hawiye, bimaal (Kafaari, Giungi for example in Merka/Mogadishu etc) and Tunnis themselves are just a confederation of clans whom also includes hawiye, ajuuran and bimaal clans among them.

I also don't agree with you about Somalis having a particular dislike for laborous work. It is rooted in two misconceptions and closely linked to ''Hamitic'' fiction. First is the attitude towards farming which is largely based on how it's economically inferior it is to pastoralism and how unsustainable it was in comparison. Pastoral products produced more wealth and fetched higher prices and farming was unsustainable in semi arid climate and when they did farm they had to combine it with herding and employ grain storage systems as we have seen in the south to secure themselves.

2nd is the outsourcing of labour in the south to slaves. This is also entirely economical and based in international capitalist market demand in the 1800s prior to this they didn't use slaves , aimed at maximizing their profit and productivity, not much different from how people outsource unskilled cheap labor today and slave labor and serfdom diminished in the western european world with industrialization, instead of human labor they could use machines. You can tell that this is the case because the Northern/Western Somalis had lower purchasing power and less access to slave markets on the swahili coast, so they didn't use slaves for their farming and labor, it was just generational Somali clans that continued the practice and nomads who picked it up doing the work themselves.

So it begs the question. If labor and artisan work was taboo why are Somalis whooly the ones doing the work in the north and west?. Why do Somalis immediately take up artisan work when they move into major cities? why are the clans in the city that take those roles elevated? even included in the town councils and formed formal guilds etc.

He might have written it differently as "مديجان" if this was the case. But if you're correct which is entirely possible, it still illustrates the point I was making in that here a source is naming a Somali group differently from Somalis during the same period as the writing of the Futuh, probably because this group, regardless of who they were, were not principally nomadic pastoralists. It makes a lot more sense if it's referencing the Madhiban as a result.

It is furthermore interesting what @Midas points out regarding the Hawiye, for example, because in those historical accounts of them they're described as having "villages" along the Shabelle river, implying a farmer and settled way of life which maybe why they're not being referred to as Somalis.

That could be true.

If they could name Harla , Hawiye etc in certain arabic texts wouldn't be farfetched for them to name Madigaan as a clan or even an occupational name like Madhibaan.

 

[Shimbiris]

Responded to you in the artisanal taboo thread. Let's not derail this one too much.

Arabs also practiced Artisanal Taboo

We work with what we have and strongly state that it is all in a speculative range, even your ethnographic works by those westerners that you postulate to be an "objective" position about the Somali condition within a conversation about a still persisting social stratification, that mind you, is...

www.somalispot.com