Half Italian Somalis hold press conference

[Angelina]

LOL

I am referring to a guy who is part of a Somali qabiil, and did not even know his ancestor was Bantu. So, yes, how can people like that, stand against those with similar parentage?

According to this poster. A Somali Bantu who could originally be from Congo just 200 yrs ago, should have more rights to pass down citizenship than let’s say a Somali Darood/Isaaq/Hawiye mother to her child who will have confirmed 50% Somali blood?

This can only be put down to sexism. At least those mad racist posters who don’t even want ethnic minorities to get it are consistent with how they view the Somali national identity. With these lot, it’s just sexism.

Oh and before anyone attacks me and thinks I’m a racist, I’m not. I wholly believe ethnic minority Somalis have every right to have Somali citizenship and are full members of our society, but so are mixed Somali children.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

According to this poster. A Somali Bantu who could originally be from Congo just 200 yrs ago, should have more rights to pass down citizenship than let’s say a Somali Darood/Isaaq/Hawiye mother to her child who will have confirmed 50% Somali blood?

This can only be put down to sexism. At least those mad racist posters who don’t even want ethnic minorities to get it are consistent with how they view the Somali national identity. With these lot, it’s just sexism.

The delusions sis

I suspect he is a Bantu himself, and I told him this many times. That is why he wants to push this agenda. He thinks he is part of the "boys club", but in real life, in Somalia, an ethnic Somali woman has more say and more political access than a Bantu man.

The "boys club" has limits.

He should be advocating for a fairer Somalia.

 

[Ximan iyo Xadeed]

The delusions sis

I suspect he is a Bantu himself, and I told him this many times. That is why he wants to push this agenda. He thinks he is part of the "boys club", but in real life, in Somalia, an ethnic Somali woman has more say and more political access than a Bantu man.

The "boys club" has limits.

He should be advocating for a fairer Somalia.

Ngl most D&M are either J-weyne adjacent or J-weyne themselves they also have Ashraaf and Banadiris in the confederacy.

 

[mohamedismail]

Ethnic Somali qabils.

You can’t argue that Somalia is an ethnostate hence that’s why women are excluded but also include people of foreign origin based on being on the land for a long time. It invalidates your argument. Banadaris have different lineages and origins. Madowweyne aren’t a tribe, they’re a confederation of people hailing originally from Congo to Tanzania. The idea that Somali women can’t pass on their passport is based on the idea of women not being able to pass down their lineage. So you need to make up your mind. Somalia is either an ethno-state based on lineage or it isn’t. Anything less is based on sexism and this is what this is. When a man of foreign origins can pass down the Somali passport but a Somali mother of full ethnic background can’t, what is that?

That’s why, despite being vile I have more respect for posters who are consistent and don’t even want Bantus and Banadirs to have citizenship. I wholly disagree with their take, but there is a consistent principle being illustrated.

You just basically dismissed my whole point. Somalia has a 4.5 system. And tribes recognized by the government is all tribes included in 4.5

 

[Angelina]

The delusions sis

I suspect he is a Bantu himself, and I told him this many times. That is why he wants to push this agenda. He thinks he is part of the "boys club", but in real life, in Somalia, an ethnic Somali woman has more say and more political access than a Bantu man.

The "boys club" has limits.

He should be advocating for a fairer Somalia.

Somalia unfortunately is a heavily tribalist society and a mixed kid with a connected mother can get the passport in 1-3 working days LOL.

 

[mohamedismail]

The delusions sis

I suspect he is a Bantu himself, and I told him this many times. That is why he wants to push this agenda. He thinks he is part of the "boys club", but in real life, in Somalia, an ethnic Somali woman has more say and more political access than a Bantu man.

The "boys club" has limits.

He should be advocating for a fairer Somalia.

If I was Bantu, why would I be against a fellow Bantu from Nigeria or Congo coming and settling in Somalia. Wouldn't that benefit me and my Bantu ideology?

 

[Bari]

Meanwhile a lot of Somalis, are originally 'ajnabi seeds'. I read the DNA topics.

DNA doesn’t matter, lineage is what Is recognised by allah.I don’t need to spit in a tube and send it to a gaal in order to know where I descend.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

DNA doesn’t matter, lineage is what I recognised all.I don’t need to spit in a tube and send it to a gaal in order to know where I descend.

sure.

 

[Angelina]

You just basically dismissed my whole point. Somalia has a 4.5 system. And tribes recognized by the government is all tribes included in 4.5

I haven’t. I’m exploring the whole premise as to why mothers can’t pass on their citizenship. It’s based on the idea of mothers not being able to pass down their lineages.

But if Bantus and Banadiris get to pass down Somali citizenship when they’re not of Somali lineage, why can’t Somali mothers? It invalidates their whole argument as to why women can’t pass on a passport. There needs to be a level of consistency.


A recent law that included Bantus and Banadiris doesn’t change a fact that’s existed for centuries. They’re not of a Somali lineage. It’s as simple as that.

 

[Bari]

I’ve changed my stance, these National borders are not recognised by Allah anyways. I don’t mind anyone getting Somali citizenship, it’s artificial and meaningless.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

I’ve changed my stance, these National borders are not recognised by Allah anyways. I don’t mind anyone getting Somali citizenship, it’s artificial and meaningless.

It has already happened. Foreign men married Somali women CENTURIES ago and their offspring assimilated to the point they don't even know what happened.

 

[𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒]

Ngl most D&M are either J-weyne adjacent or J-weyne themselves they also have Ashraaf and Banadiris in the confederacy.

Exactly. And if we want to be strict about "lineage", a good number of D&M would have to join 0.5.

 

[Angelina]

DNA doesn’t matter, lineage is what Is recognised by allah.I don’t need to spit in a tube and send it to a gaal in order to know where I descend.

This is what I mean. In that case, if lineage and not being of an ajnabi seed is the whole premise of this, why can a Somali Bantu of a Congolese or Tanzanian lineage be given Somali citizenship?

 

[Angelina]

Exactly. And if we want to be strict about "lineage", a good number of D&M would have to join 0.5.

It’s clear to see, that these lot are only strict about Somali lineage when it’s time to champion sexist and outdated laws. I have no issue with the fact that mixed kids with non Somali fathers aren’t ethnic Somalis but do have ethnic Somali blood. I also agree that they don’t belong to a Somali tribe, but excluding them from passports and the like when a child that descends from a group of multiple different ethnic groups gets a Somali passport is ridiculous.

 

[Mozart]

No sane half-Somali wants Somali citizenship.

 

[mohamedismail]

I haven’t. I’m exploring the whole premise as to why mothers can’t pass on their citizenship. It’s based on the idea of mothers not being able to pass down their lineages.

But if Bantus and Banadiris get to pass down Somali citizenship when they’re not of Somali lineage, why can’t Somali mothers? It invalidates their whole argument as to why women can’t pass on a passport. There needs to be a level of consistency.


A recent law that included Bantus and Banadiris doesn’t change a fact that’s existed for centuries. They’re not of a Somali lineage. It’s as simple as that.

Somali Bantus and Banaadiris get access to Somali citizenship not due to lineage but rather land. They have whole cities/Tuulos that they exclusively inhabit.

What city/tuulo do Nigerians or itallians inhabit in Somalia. None.

 

[Angelina]

Somali Bantus and Banaadiris get access to Somali citizenship not due to lineage but rather land. They have whole cities/Tuulos that they exclusively inhabit.

What city/tuulo do Nigerians or itallians inhabit in Somalia. None.

Well the there goes your Islamic argument as to why women can’t pass down their passports. It had nothing to do with that did it?

Thanks for admitting this.

The premise has nothing to do with land. If it’s land, his mothers people have land more so than any Bantu or Banadir. This is about lineage. The one thing women can’t pass down.

 

[mohamedismail]

Well the there goes your Islamic argument as to why women can’t pass down their passports.

Thanks for admitting this.

The premise has nothing to do with land. If it’s land, his others people have land. It’s about lineage.

Btw I think you are misunderstanding me. I don't believe that Somalia is a ethnostate like other Somalis. I believe that Somalia has various ethnic groups and they all have rights to the country.

Banaadiris and Bantus both have a right to Somalia. Similar to ethnic Somalis.

 

[Angelina]

Btw I think you are misunderstanding me. I don't believe that Somalia is a ethnostate like other Somalis. I believe that Somalia has various ethnic groups and they all have rights to the country.

Banaadiris and Bantus both have a right to Somalia. Similar to ethnic Somalis.

If you don’t believe Somalia is an ethno-state, then your belief that women can’t pass down their passport then is guided by pure sexism.

That’s why I have more respect for Somalis who’ll argue women can’t since Somalia is an ethno state based on Somali lineage. These lot will use Islam to back their argument and it does somewhat make sense if we believe that Somalia is a country for ethnic Somalis and in that situation, it is imperative for only Somali fathers to be able to pass it down.


On the other hand, your whole argument is all over the place and you can’t have one or the other. If ethnicity isn’t the requirement of having a Somali passport but based on one parent having a Somali background, why can’t women be included? Women birth children, raise them and are official parents and the only reason why they may be excluded from giving citizenship is usually based on the idea of lineage and ethnicity. Since you don’t even believe in an exclusive Somali ethnic group nation, then the idea of excluding women is without doubt dumb then.

 

[Bari]

This is what I mean. In that case, if lineage and not being of an ajnabi seed is the whole premise of this, why can a Somali Bantu of a Congolese or Tanzanian lineage be given Somali citizenship?

The idea of citizenship has no Islamic basis. All Muslim land is your land, a Muslim shouldn’t have more right to a land than another Muslim.