Idk did he even have kids?
Imam Ahmed Gurey? Somali, harari, or Yemeni?
- Thread starter ladySomal206
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Until then, we work with what we have.
somalipatriot
Unfortunately, therefore lack of any wisdom
I will not go further than I stated the bulk of Somalis today even having doubts about the Somali hero Ahmed gurey background is outrageous it’s exactly the reason why Farmaajo is tense in his speeches and growing angry every time he hears his countrymen speak on all types of matters without the knowledge there was a time pre civil war when Somalis accepted the truth for what it was but it seems the bulk of generation is the complete opposite don’t underestimate the Somalis cleverness if there is one uniformed of us we tell our enemies there are millions of Somalis who you can’t manipulate!
somalipatriot
Unfortunately, therefore lack of any wisdom
No.
It should be read as Yabare, a subclan in Jidwaaq Absame that today lives in and around Jigjiga. In my limited research, I traced Imam Ahmed Guray to be from this clan.
Another correction that needs to be made in that translation: Harla is actually a Harla Koombe, a brother of Harti, Geri, Jiiraan, and Abdi. A large number of them are today integrated within Ciise and border the Afar, and small section of them settle with Gerri in areas around Baabuli. So they're a Somali clan.
Last edited:
Hotchick12
VIP
Why don’t you get, there is an agenda of habesha historians downplaying somalinimo of Ahmed gurey, in order to claim that history as some sort of habesha civil war, when it was actually Somalia liberating Muslim lands from Christian tyranny
I’m sure different people have different agendas, good and bad, I truly want to believe he was a Somali but I wonder how come we can’t trace his family? Why are the disagreements of which family he came from? May Allah have mercy him. He deserves to have his true story out not what foreigners have written. Unfortunately Somalis did not document much but it seems others did. We need to compare and see what’s out there while remembering there are many that do want to erase our history and divide us. Which they have done a great job thus far.
We have very few facts and according to the evidence I think we can make 4 credible hypothesis on Ahmed Guray ethnicity : somali, Harai,Harla or mixed somali+Harari. Ahmed Guray was never mentioned as any particular ethnicity so we don't have a definitive answer
Evidence that suggests Ahmed Guray was Somali :
1) Ahmed Guray comanded somali troops, even though he had to fight some rebel somali clans it seems he was closely associated with the somali tribes that followed him in his expedition against Ethiopia. 2)Imam Ahmed was born in either hubat (Ethiopia) or zeila. Hubat is in Oromiya but close to Harar, we don't know the ethnic make up of the area but it's likely that there was a somali presence before oromos occupied the area, if Ahmed was born in Zeila then it means he was most likely Somali
3)Ahmed Guray is also believed to be related to Nur ibn Mujaahid who is claimed by Marehan, if this is true (we don't know for sure) it means Ahmed Guray was also Somali or at least part somali.
4) Ahmed Guray's sister Firdowsa married a Somali chief according to written sources, this makes it likely he was also Somalis we are an endogamous group. A cousin of Ahmed Guray called Mohamed bin Ali was also identified as a somali chief
Evidence that suggests he was Harari: Ahmed grew up in Harar and if he was born in Hubat it's also likely he had Harris ancestry. Ahmed's uncle Garaad Abun Adaashe is identified as a Harari , he also married a Harari noble woman.
Evidence that suggests he was mixed: if you combine the few scarce sources in his relatives we find both somalis and hararis which may indicate that he had both ancestries which also explains why he was never mentioned as one particular ethnicity.
Other hypothesis: i took most of my information from an ethiopian academic paper . The study presents arguments in favor of the somali hypothesis but leans towards considering Ahmed Guray as a mix between Balaw (beja) and Afar. I can understand the afar hypothesis but I believe the Balaw (beja) hypothesis is nonsense because Bejas don't live anywhere near the area were Ahmed was born and raised.
Harla hypothesis. The harla people have been absorbed by hararis and northern somalis (mostly Harti) . Scholars are undecided on wether they spoke an ethio semitic language or a cushitic one. Anyway Harlas were mentioned as a separate group in futuh al habasha and were also close to Ahmed Guray. If we accept the Harla hypothesis both hararis and somalis can claim Ahmed Guray because Harlas are the ancestors of Somali Harti and Hararis just like vikings are the ancestors of Scandinavian nationalities.
Conclusions: we don't know 100% but nevertheless Ahmed Guray is a symbol of somalis and we are the group that is most attached to him, most foreign scholars tend to lean towards the Somali hypothesis. I personally think Ahmed was a somali with some hararis roots.
This is the link to the paper that I mentioned. It's very interesting but their conclusion is wrong in my opinion
Evidence that suggests Ahmed Guray was Somali :
1) Ahmed Guray comanded somali troops, even though he had to fight some rebel somali clans it seems he was closely associated with the somali tribes that followed him in his expedition against Ethiopia. 2)Imam Ahmed was born in either hubat (Ethiopia) or zeila. Hubat is in Oromiya but close to Harar, we don't know the ethnic make up of the area but it's likely that there was a somali presence before oromos occupied the area, if Ahmed was born in Zeila then it means he was most likely Somali
3)Ahmed Guray is also believed to be related to Nur ibn Mujaahid who is claimed by Marehan, if this is true (we don't know for sure) it means Ahmed Guray was also Somali or at least part somali.
4) Ahmed Guray's sister Firdowsa married a Somali chief according to written sources, this makes it likely he was also Somalis we are an endogamous group. A cousin of Ahmed Guray called Mohamed bin Ali was also identified as a somali chief
Evidence that suggests he was Harari: Ahmed grew up in Harar and if he was born in Hubat it's also likely he had Harris ancestry. Ahmed's uncle Garaad Abun Adaashe is identified as a Harari , he also married a Harari noble woman.
Evidence that suggests he was mixed: if you combine the few scarce sources in his relatives we find both somalis and hararis which may indicate that he had both ancestries which also explains why he was never mentioned as one particular ethnicity.
Other hypothesis: i took most of my information from an ethiopian academic paper . The study presents arguments in favor of the somali hypothesis but leans towards considering Ahmed Guray as a mix between Balaw (beja) and Afar. I can understand the afar hypothesis but I believe the Balaw (beja) hypothesis is nonsense because Bejas don't live anywhere near the area were Ahmed was born and raised.
Harla hypothesis. The harla people have been absorbed by hararis and northern somalis (mostly Harti) . Scholars are undecided on wether they spoke an ethio semitic language or a cushitic one. Anyway Harlas were mentioned as a separate group in futuh al habasha and were also close to Ahmed Guray. If we accept the Harla hypothesis both hararis and somalis can claim Ahmed Guray because Harlas are the ancestors of Somali Harti and Hararis just like vikings are the ancestors of Scandinavian nationalities.
Conclusions: we don't know 100% but nevertheless Ahmed Guray is a symbol of somalis and we are the group that is most attached to him, most foreign scholars tend to lean towards the Somali hypothesis. I personally think Ahmed was a somali with some hararis roots.
This is the link to the paper that I mentioned. It's very interesting but their conclusion is wrong in my opinion
Everyone in the horn claims Ahmed Guray but he is never mentioned as any ethnicity in particular so nobody has a definitive answer.
However we know the bulk of his army was Somali. You should also understand that ethnicities were probably more fluid back then today we have a strong established distinction between non somalis and somalis but it's likely that in the mixed somali, harari, afar and Oromo areas many people had mixed ancestry. Take the oromized Somali tribes for example , are they Somali? Oromo? Or both? It depends who you ask.
They literally had their own language mate
Why does everyone think he was born in saylac? He was born in hubat which is today still inhabited by his clansmen, the sexawle Karanle first born of hawiye
liberating muslims entails burning down churches and looting monasteries?
I cannot believe that someone called Ahmed GUREY is being disputed as a non-Somali.
I will never believe a non-Somali man lead an army of Somali fighters, please.
I will never believe a non-Somali man lead an army of Somali fighters, please.
People focused on removing Axmed Gurrey from history are people who want to deny somali history.
Like stinking amhara who claim he was Ethiopian while Ethiopia started to exist in 1950s when Haike Selaise rebranded Abysinia and stole the Cush civilisation and heritage of Aerhiopian civilisation which was modern day Northern Sudan and Southern Egypt.
Gurey is the one of the most Somali names I have ever heard, it's like being called Guuleed or Warsame. His name alone should be more than enough of an indicator. His wife was probably Harari or some other Cushitic Muslim group, but just because his wife's ethnicity was dubious doesn't mean his was!
As for those who fixated on fabricating his sub-clan, what is the point in speculating if there is zero evidence? Ahmed Gurey is the perfect Pan-Somali hero precisely because his clan is not known and it doesn't matter. He was fighting for Islam, not Somalis and not his sub-clan clearly.
Smh
There is a clan leader mentioned in Futuh Al Habesha whose name is Xabashi sounding and it's definitely not Ahmed Gurey. I'm sure anyone who reads the translated version can spot who I am referring to.
Here is the Futux al-Xabasha:
I'll do a large post on it one of these days. For now, we really don't know for sure what he was. He strangely never gets his tribe or ethnicity mentioned when the book does that for most other people contrary to secondary sources that make all sorts of claims I've seen like him being "Balaw" (I'll explain why this is false in my future post). You can tell it's actively avoiding the subject of his origins, I'd say.
It's interesting how he arranges his army, though. The right flank is all Somali tribes led by his brother-in-law Mattan married to his eldest sister, Firdusa, who is the chieftain of the Geri Kombe (Daroods) whereas the left flank is all "Harla" and led by the chieftain of a separate tribe from the Harla, the "Zarba", named Muhammad who is a maternal cousin of the Imam via an aunt. The Zarba seem to sometimes be spoken of as a different group but they're often mentioned in tandem with Somali tribes like they are one. For instance, in the chapter about the Somali tribes who appear in Harar to answer the call to Jihad, the book proceeds to list out the tribes of the Somali who arrive and for some reason also lists out the Zarba:
Weird that they're just mentioned casually among the Somali tribes, no? They wouldn't be the only Somali tribe of the time now lost to history. We also have two called "Jairan" and "Mazza" or something like that who are explicitly called Somali tribes but whom we cannot trace back to any modern tribes unlike the rest.
Harlas are also a possible old Somali group based on more early modern and contemporary scholarly inquiries despite how the Futux speaks of them as separate from the Somali tribes at various points where it even describes the two groups feuding. Though in one instance it speaks of them as though they are Somalis:
And if you think it means they are "the people of sim" then think again because the other Somali tribes mentioned are basically the people of sim from what I can tell:
Anyway, by the looks of it, if Zarba are Somalis, then he literally gives command of his left and right flank to Somalis, both of whom are family in some way or another, one through marriage to his eldest sister and one through his own maternal line. I'll share it in my future post but there's also a separate medieval source from the Futux that seems to posit the Imam is related to the Habar Awal maternally as well and it makes sense cos when the Isaaq (Habar Majadli / one of the two "Habar Maqdi" in the mistaken English translation) come to answer the call to arms he seems to very happily welcome them in particular to some extent.
All that being said, it's at least interesting that he has what seem to be several close Somali relations and seems biased toward giving them commanding positions. The center of the army was made up of elite warriors seemingly from all the tribes/ethnicities called "Malassai" whom the Imam himself commanded.
I'll do a large post on it one of these days. For now, we really don't know for sure what he was. He strangely never gets his tribe or ethnicity mentioned when the book does that for most other people contrary to secondary sources that make all sorts of claims I've seen like him being "Balaw" (I'll explain why this is false in my future post). You can tell it's actively avoiding the subject of his origins, I'd say.
It's interesting how he arranges his army, though. The right flank is all Somali tribes led by his brother-in-law Mattan married to his eldest sister, Firdusa, who is the chieftain of the Geri Kombe (Daroods) whereas the left flank is all "Harla" and led by the chieftain of a separate tribe from the Harla, the "Zarba", named Muhammad who is a maternal cousin of the Imam via an aunt. The Zarba seem to sometimes be spoken of as a different group but they're often mentioned in tandem with Somali tribes like they are one. For instance, in the chapter about the Somali tribes who appear in Harar to answer the call to Jihad, the book proceeds to list out the tribes of the Somali who arrive and for some reason also lists out the Zarba:
Weird that they're just mentioned casually among the Somali tribes, no? They wouldn't be the only Somali tribe of the time now lost to history. We also have two called "Jairan" and "Mazza" or something like that who are explicitly called Somali tribes but whom we cannot trace back to any modern tribes unlike the rest.
Harlas are also a possible old Somali group based on more early modern and contemporary scholarly inquiries despite how the Futux speaks of them as separate from the Somali tribes at various points where it even describes the two groups feuding. Though in one instance it speaks of them as though they are Somalis:
And if you think it means they are "the people of sim" then think again because the other Somali tribes mentioned are basically the people of sim from what I can tell:
Anyway, by the looks of it, if Zarba are Somalis, then he literally gives command of his left and right flank to Somalis, both of whom are family in some way or another, one through marriage to his eldest sister and one through his own maternal line. I'll share it in my future post but there's also a separate medieval source from the Futux that seems to posit the Imam is related to the Habar Awal maternally as well and it makes sense cos when the Isaaq (Habar Majadli / one of the two "Habar Maqdi" in the mistaken English translation) come to answer the call to arms he seems to very happily welcome them in particular to some extent.
All that being said, it's at least interesting that he has what seem to be several close Somali relations and seems biased toward giving them commanding positions. The center of the army was made up of elite warriors seemingly from all the tribes/ethnicities called "Malassai" whom the Imam himself commanded.
Yeah, Yemeni is the most outlandish. He was born in the eastern Horn interior near Harar and speaks of himself very plainly as a native to the area and there are chapters where he interacts with South Arabians like Mehris and speaks to them like they are outsiders. He is 100% from the Horn. Arabian is an impossibility.
Why do you think the balaw claim is false? It’s the one backed with the most evidence and considering he was born in hubat a town shared between harla and balaw sexawle karanle It makes sense to predict he was a mixture of both groups.
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