Imam Ahmed Gurey? Somali, harari, or Yemeni?

[Hamzza]

I'm talking about the self-proclaimed "genius" @Shimbiris

He is right in this context sxb, there is no mention of the Imams ethnicity in the book Futuh Al Habaša. Read his post carefully.

 

[HiraanBorn]

He is right in this context sxb, there is no mention of the Imams ethnicity in the book Futuh Al Habaša. Read his post carefully.

I'm not reading that

 

[Som]

Alot of people lack the use of historiography and many believe it is a fancy term for personal interpretation but it really isn't. Historiography is what protects even the sciences of Hadith as scholars of the Salaf use this criteria to identify sayings of the Prophet (primary source) into strong Hadiths, weak Hadiths, Qiyaas etc. You can find Hadiths that appear contradictory, without this historiography one could even dispute the message of Islam.

In context, you have Shihabuddin (primary source 1) and the letters of Wasan Seged (primary source 2). From the example of Garaad Abuun we can see a contradiction or mutual exclusitivity that goes against the majority opinion on the matter, it is historiography (secondary sources like the works of the Salaf) that finds a solution to this problem. If a Muslim Scholar of history and a Christian scholar of history have come together to address this, how do we as common people think it's valid to dispute this without access to the knowledge they ammased on the topic?

Actually these are all hypothesis. There is no consensus on Ahmed Gurey ethnicity and any guess is based on various elements of his life. He had close ties with both somalis and hararis, the majority opinion is guessing. There's scholars who stated Ahmed Gurey may have been Somali ( I.M Lewis, Cerulli and others)

 

[Som]

Balaws are Beğa from TigrayView attachment 240613

The problem with the balaw hypothesis is that these people don't really exist anymore and there is no evidence of them living in present day Somaliweyn. Ahmed Gurey was born in hubat Ethiopia or zeila , hubat is not far from the somali region and close to both harar and zeila. Given the proven admixture between hararis and somalis in this area my guess is that he was mixed(Somali+harari) and this explains why he was never clearly identified as any particular ethnicity but also explains his close ties to both people's

 

[Som]

Anyway Ahmed Gurey is a somali hero. I believe he was either Somali or part Somali but let's pretend for a moment that he was a non-somalis. Does it really matter that much? Napoleon was technically Italian , he was born in Corsica from a family with Tuscany roots and yet he is a french hero. Most of the kings of England weren't English and yet they are highly regarded by English people. Ahmed Gurey is important for the development of Somali national identity so is exact ethnicity is not that important.

 

[Hamzza]

The problem with the balaw hypothesis is that these people don't really exist anymore and there is no evidence of them living in present day Somaliweyn. Ahmed Gurey was born in hubat Ethiopia or zeila , hubat is not far from the somali region and close to both harar and zeila. Given the proven admixture between hararis and somalis in this area my guess is that he was mixed(Somali+harari) and this explains why he was never clearly identified as any particular ethnicity but also explains his close ties to both people's

Your guess is not bad he could be Harari, Somali or the mix of both

As for the location of Hubat I've been searching this for sometime, but couldn't find most definite answer as historians or writers place Hubat in different location. For Example,

1. Futuh Alhabash, Harari (Wareeg Zaman):
Places Hubat between Babile & Jijiga. This for
sure I think Funyanbira(Gursum).

2. The Futuh al-Habasha, the Arabic report about these wars, refers to the Harala in various contexts."Ahmad b. "Ibrahim was born around 1506 in the region of Funyan-Bira and was most probably ethnically affiliated to the Harala people. (Ulrich Braukämper)

3. Futuh Alhabash, English. (The conquest of Abyssinia) indicates 20miles Northwest of Harar. I think this is the ancient town of Harala region. Old maps that I have also indicates Hubetta near Dire Dawa.

4.From what I understood from the book Futuh, there are 2 Hubats mentioned a) Hubat b) Hubat Zabrat. I think Hubat Zabrat is Near Kundudo where it was Imam Ahmeds fortification base.

5.Also according Ulrich Braukämper, his paper mentions "the Imam's nephew Amir Nur Bin Mujahid being born on Kundudo."According to the oral traditions, amir Nur, the Adalite initiator of the "second conquest" (sahib al-fath ath-thani) was born in Gara-Kununno near Funyan-Bira."

# 1, 2, 4, 5, all suggest Geri-Jarso region. But still old ruins yet to be found.

 

[Juke]

The problem with the balaw hypothesis is that these people don't really exist anymore and there is no evidence of them living in present day Somaliweyn. Ahmed Gurey was born in hubat Ethiopia or zeila , hubat is not far from the somali region and close to both harar and zeila. Given the proven admixture between hararis and somalis in this area my guess is that he was mixed(Somali+harari) and this explains why he was never clearly identified as any particular ethnicity but also explains his close ties to both people's

Belew still exist as part of Tigre/Beni-Amer

 

[killerxsmoke]

zaharbul was ahmeds cousin where is he from?

 

[SwedishAbdi96]

Anyway Ahmed Gurey is a somali hero. I believe he was either Somali or part Somali but let's pretend for a moment that he was a non-somalis. Does it really matter that much? Napoleon was technically Italian , he was born in Corsica from a family with Tuscany roots and yet he is a french hero. Most of the kings of England weren't English and yet they are highly regarded by English people. Ahmed Gurey is important for the development of Somali national identity so is exact ethnicity is not that important.

I agree, similar to Ataturk in Turkey that had partly Balkan ancestry, if I am correct Albanian. It is pretty common for state rulers to have partially different ancestry from other parts of the World. In my opinion Somalia should have an half Somali benevolent dictator.

 

[Galool]

Harla koombe his sister was married to geri kombe commander at the time

 

[sufilife]

SOMALI PERIOD .