Is Every Qabiil It’s Own Ethnic Group?

[The Oponian Guild]

Eww. I prefer this one, not 100% accurate, but better.

View attachment 347620

Ah yes the Hutu version, yeah sacad live outside bacadweyn and Garacad, the cheek of these starving iljeexs

 

[The Oponian Guild]

Here’s a more accurate one which actually correlates with traditional clan borders even though it has some inaccuracies itself.

 

[The Oponian Guild]

Whether or not that is true, it has to be accepted. Countries are usually united by one group dominating the rest, its a perfectly natural thing. Its insane to want this Darod-Hawiye shitfest to continue all because you don't want your sub sub sub clan being ruled by Darods or Hawiye.

Naturally somaliweyn is in Darods interests and if this was to come about it would lead to eternal Darod rule, and with noble Darod rule comes peace and prosperity for all.

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

Eww. I prefer this one, not 100% accurate, but better.

View attachment 347620

Looks like youre passing around the 5th iteration of this map I have seen so far. Its like every qabil kid comes out of no where with photoshops and changes it.

 

[NidarNidar]

Eww. I prefer this one, not 100% accurate, but better.

View attachment 347620

That map isn't even accurate, Isa don't even live in Awdal besides a small community in Zeila and seasonal pastoralists.

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

Naturally somaliweyn is in Darods interests and if this was to come about it would lead to eternal Darod rule, and with noble Darod rule comes peace and prosperity for all.

Idiot, IT is in the somali interest you stupid Bum alwaax

 

[The Oponian Guild]

Idiot, IT is in the somali interest you stupid Bum alwaax

It isn’t not for the two other groups. Drop the wadani facade and join the dark side… we will win together…..

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

Naturally somaliweyn is in Darods interests and if this was to come about it would lead to eternal Darod rule, and with noble Darod rule comes peace and prosperity for all.

Idiot, IT is in the somali interest you stupid monkey alwaax

Eww. I prefer this one, not 100% accurate, but better.

View attachment 347620

Wow wo wo I did not even , I had completely forgotten that Gaal Jecel existed. What happened to the guy who use to be on this forum with the most hideous flag I have ever seen. Thats the only dude I met. Cause for Hawiye Im sure the big ones are xawadle Habar Gidr and abgaal

 

[Dooyo]

Lol no they weren't. While the concept of Italy has been in existence since Roman times, the idea of a sovereign Italian state wasn't a thing until the 19th century. Italy for most of its history consisted of various city states, kingdoms, duchies, fiefdoms ect, just like Somalia. However unlike Somalia, parts of Italy were even ruled by different cultures (Germans, Spaniards, Byzantines, Arabs).

And the first usage of "Somali" was in the 15th century, even earlier if we go by Chinese records.

And yet they were able to unite anyways. I don't even need to bring up Europeans, look at Africa. Many countries are literally a mashup of ethnicites that never had a state together. For example, Maasai, Kikuyukus, Luos, and Swahilis have never shared a state or civilization until Kenya.

Both nations despite being heavily Italian and German are genuinely distinct entities with their own culture and history that developed over the course of thousands of years. They predate the idea of a German or Italian nation state. Qabils have no such differences nor developed so. All Somalis are nearly identical.

Everything before the collapse of the Western Roman Empire, which had all of the Italian peninsula unified could be considered an "Italian" state. If anything, the unification of Italy in the 19th century was actually a re-unification.

I think that first usage of "Somali" was either a typo on the Chinese part or they were taking about some other people, like Samburu ethnic group or something. That explains the imported giraffe.

If the Arabs, which are considered an ethnic group, can have many different nations that work as a collective at times exist, why can't we do the same?

 

[The Oponian Guild]

Idiot, IT is in the somali interest you stupid monkey alwaax

Wow wo wo I did not even , I had completely forgotten that Gaal Jecel existed. What happened to the guy who use to be on this forum with the most hideous flag I have ever seen. Thats the only dude I met. Cause for Hawiye Im sure the big ones are xawadle Habar Gidr and abgaal

I just accept the reality on the ground and move forward with it. If we team up we can win big together and bring about eternal peace.

Waxa kaliya ee aan ku dadaalo marka aan siyaasadda ka fikiro waa sidee nabad ugu soo dabaali karnaa dalkeena hooyo.

 

[Zak12]

was actually a re-unification.

Are you implying 19th century Italy had continuity with the Western Roman Empire?

Samburu ethnic group

Those guys are interior nomads lmao. The only other East African people that had commercial ports besides Somalis were Eritreans and Swahilis.

which are considered an ethnic group

You mean Arabians? Because Maghrebis, Egyptians, Levantines and Iraqis are certainly not one ethnicity. Anyways those Gulf states exist due to oil. Your hypothetical Somali qabil states would be too gaajo to function and irrelevant and easily bullied by Ethiopia or Kenya, like what is happening to Jubaland.

 

[The Oponian Guild]

Are you implying 19th century Italy had continuity with the Western Roman Empire?


Those guys are interior nomads lmao. The only other East African people that had commercial ports besides Somalis were Eritreans and Swahilis.

You mean Arabians? Because Maghrebis, Egyptians, Levantines and Iraqis are certainly not one ethnicity. Anyways those Gulf states exist due to oil. Your hypothetical Somali qabil states would be too gaajo to function and irrelevant and easily bullied by Ethiopia or Kenya, like what is happening to Jubaland.

let them have their own gaajo jingad states, and they’ll collapse on themselves. Somaliweyn can continue without them. If anything the process gets easier.

 

[wheel]

Everything before the collapse of the Western Roman Empire, which had all of the Italian peninsula unified could be considered an "Italian" state. If anything, the unification of Italy in the 19th century was actually a re-unification.

I think that first usage of "Somali" was either a typo on the Chinese part or they were taking about some other people, like Samburu ethnic group or something. That explains the imported giraffe.

If the Arabs, which are considered an ethnic group, can have many different nations that work as a collective at times exist, why can't we do the same?

Does every qabiil get to have a separate state? i mean its only fair.

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

Maxaa Tiri speaking Somalis are a single ethnic group by any definition. The Maay speakers along with speakers of the Digil languages are also Somalis in my opinion, but some anthropologists may disagree due to the difference in language.

So yes, Somalis are an ethnic group. The question is:
do the clans function like ethnic groups?

I argue yes. Somali clans function like ethnic groups. The level of conflict between Somali clans resembles that between disparate ethnic groups. Bosniaks, Serbs and Croatians are a single ethnic group. The Tigray and Tigrinya of Eritrea are the same people. Yet all of these groups absolutely hate each other and do not see each other as kin.


tl;dr Somali clans are not ethnic groups, but function like ethnic groups.

 

[wheel]

Maxaa Tiri speaking Somalis are a single ethnic group by any definition. The Maay speakers along with speakers of the Digil languages are also Somalis in my opinion, but some anthropologists may disagree due to the difference in language.

So yes, Somalis are an ethnic group. The question is:
do the clans function like ethnic groups?

I argue yes. Somali clans function like ethnic groups. The level of conflict between Somali clans resembles that between disparate ethnic groups. Bosniaks, Serbs and Croatians are a single ethnic group. The Tigray and Tigrinya of Eritrea are the same people. Yet all of these groups absolutely hate each other and do not see each other as kin.


tl;dr Somali clans are not ethnic groups, but function like ethnic groups.

That's because they're backwards nomads. The same issues still existed amongst kazakhs for example in the 19th century until they were conquered. If somalis largely became sedentary this would cease to be an issue.

 

[The Oponian Guild]

That's because they're backwards nomads. The same issues still existed amongst kazakhs for example in the 19th century until they were conquered. If somalis largely became sedentary this would cease to be an issue.

This will never happen.

 

[wheel]

This will never happen.

Somalia has already made massive strides towards urbanisation in the last 30 years, i dont see why this wont continue to go on.

 

[Dooyo]

Ah yes the Hutu version, yeah sacad live outside bacadweyn and Garacad, the cheek of these starving iljeexs

I'm not interested in engaging in FKD. My map is the map I identify with. You are free to believe in your version of the map.

The bastardized Somaliweyn concept is just Daroodism, not inclusive enough, that's why this ideology couldn't gain traction and why 77 was a failure. The intention behind recapturing Somali lands back from the Ethiopians was not heartfelt, not motivated by the right ideology.

Real Somaliweyn is Samaaleweyn. If we go by the old fairytale of how Somali qabiils came about, you'd realize that Samaaleweynism is the true binding force of the Somali people. If Samaaleweyn does not unite us all, Jidwaaq, Ciise, OGs, Isaaqs, etc in Jigjiga/Dir Dhabe will be assimilated by Amharas and Oromos in 10 years. We already have a couple of Somali (non-Darood) clans on the verge of being chomped up by the Oromummaa assimilation machine.


Adal, from the little I've read about it so far, was composed of many clans, Dir, Hawiye and Darood.

That map is not accurate

I said it wasn't 100% accurate.

 

[Dooyo]

Looks like youre passing around the 5th iteration of this map I have seen so far. Its like every qabil kid comes out of no where with photoshops and changes it.

I think the one I used is the 2nd iteration. Dunno

 

[World]

The main argument against Somaliland succession is that there’s no reason for a group of people that are mostly of one ethnic group, similar culture, same deen, a “homogenous” group should split apart into different nations. It’s the reason why Somali irredentism exists. Bringing back shanta Soomaaliyeed under one Somali nation. If ethnicity is a merely social construct, couldn’t it be said that each individual qabiil is its own ethnic group?

We never were a united people group, ever in history, even before coloniaization. Why force people under the Somali flag now?

Somalis were not united because they were a backwards pastoral people whose land was not conductive to civilisation, this is why Somalia is a failed state today. The culture created by nomadism is the problem. Had Somalia on average received 500mm+ of rainfall from North to South, we would have been united and had a farming culture that wouldn’t have utilised qabiil.